EPT
[ASL17] Ro8 Day 1
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50107 Posts
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Lazyer
United States341 Posts
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dr0pship
Canada520 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50107 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey726 Posts
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Sonic_md
Moldova275 Posts
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masoka82
Spain594 Posts
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Nirli
Bulgaria364 Posts
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felleN
Australia60 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands792 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7907 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7907 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7907 Posts
i think sharp has this | ||
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killer1nz
New Zealand164 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands792 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50107 Posts
Poll: Recommend BeSt vs Sharp Game 1? Yes (7) No (2) If you have time (2) 11 total votes Your vote: Recommend BeSt vs Sharp Game 1? | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7907 Posts
On April 01 2024 20:30 Terrorbladder wrote: Come on Sharp, let's put this macro donkey out to pasture HBD Terrorbladder  | ||
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TMNT
2629 Posts
On April 01 2024 20:34 PVJ wrote: Sharp is so lucky with some of these engagements, can't believe it It's not luck. It's Tesagi. When you can have 3CC unpunished at 7 min into the game, all you have to do is not fuck anything up, like siege 10 tanks on mines or something. Other than that, Terran can pretty much A move to victory. | ||
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prosatan
Romania7907 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
Sharp is seriously playing like peak Fantasy today. | ||
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foxmeep
Australia2333 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
On April 01 2024 20:57 foxmeep wrote: He lost 10+ probes to vulture runby early and Sharp got really good vulture placement to deny Protoss 4th.How the fk do you have worse econ than Terran when Terran hasn't attacked you for 30 mins? | ||
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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foxmeep
Australia2333 Posts
On April 01 2024 20:59 Terrorbladder wrote: He lost 10+ probes to vulture runby early and Sharp got really good vulture placement to deny Protoss 4th. He had map control pretty soon afterwards and 15-20 more supply anyway. Sharp cut heaps to do that runby. And it only killed like 6-7. Best is actually just bad. I'm amazed he fluked his way through the previous round by pressing "z". | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4170 Posts
I mean Best's play today, ofc. You got me, bro. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4170 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
On April 01 2024 20:40 TMNT wrote: Skill issue. Protoss only has to gas steal, rally early zealots to Terran main, make dragoons to force repair on bunker.It's not luck. It's Tesagi. When you can have 3CC unpunished at 7 min into the game, all you have to do is not fuck anything up, like siege 10 tanks on mines or something. Other than that, Terran can pretty much A move to victory. | ||
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ggsimida
1147 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
On April 01 2024 21:03 foxmeep wrote: The commentators on the English stream mentioned that Best skipped gas in his natural to have enough minerals to make 1 million zealots for an ee han attack on Sharp's 3rd and natural. He failed though.He had map control pretty soon afterwards and 15-20 more supply anyway. Sharp cut heaps to do that runby. And it only killed like 6-7. Best is actually just bad. I'm amazed he fluked his way through the previous round by pressing "z". | ||
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kodecopas
Peru17 Posts
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oxKnu
1178 Posts
On April 01 2024 21:03 ggsimida wrote: honestly best should have switched to another race long ago, he has no sense of utilizing protoss best traits and his macro style would have suited terran better maybe Disagree, Terran at high level requires a lot of precision. The guy routinely loses large chunks of his units to mines that he already scouts, loses coursairs like a D-rank etc.. Best made Sharp look really good today with his non-existing game sense, however Sharp came up well prepared for the maps I thought. Mini would've easily 3-0ed Sharp today though, literally all of the games he skipped something. Protoss players that don't have tunnel vision destroy this type of Terran. | ||
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ggsimida
1147 Posts
On April 01 2024 21:08 oxKnu wrote: Disagree, Terran at high level requires a lot of precision. The guy routinely loses large chunks of his units to mines that he already scouts, loses coursairs like a D-rank etc.. Best made Sharp look really good today with his non-existing game sense, however Sharp came up well prepared for the maps I thought. Mini would've easily 3-0ed Sharp today though, literally all of the games he skipped something. Protoss players that don't have tunnel vision destroy this type of Terran. zerg then lol? can press H instead of Z | ||
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oxKnu
1178 Posts
We don't need to guess. There is already a version of Zerg that plays like Best. Hero. He looks a little bit sneakier because that race has more tools in every match-up but he has the same tunnelvision and lack of game sense. Both have the same history: Always top8-16 but routinely failing in the later stages of tournaments and their losses always look the same. NO ASL wins too. | ||
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TMNT
2629 Posts
On April 01 2024 21:03 Terrorbladder wrote: Skill issue. Protoss only has to gas steal, rally early zealots to Terran main, make dragoons to force repair on bunker. Yeah that'd work at E rank where you play bro. Stop making troll posts. | ||
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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TMNT
2629 Posts
Where? | ||
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Comedy
456 Posts
things are going on in the games that none of you have any clue about as to why players make decisions that they do, you simply cant comprehend it because you have the game knowledge of a d rank, so being less judgemental is probably a good thing. Sharp played great today. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50107 Posts
Poll: Recommend BeSt vs Sharp Game 3? Yes (7) No (1) If you have time (0) 8 total votes Your vote: Recommend BeSt vs Sharp Game 3? Poll: Recommend BeSt vs Sharp Game 4? If you have time (5) Yes (2) No (1) 8 total votes Your vote: Recommend BeSt vs Sharp Game 4? | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands792 Posts
On April 01 2024 21:31 Comedy wrote: so nice that tl.net posters who wouldnt reach b rank on the ladder talk about best not having game sense. absolutely ridiculous. Best has some of the best game sense in the world, he's an ASL ro8 player. Jfc things are going on in the games that none of you have any clue about as to why players make decisions that they do, you simply cant comprehend it because you have the game knowledge of a d rank, so being less judgemental is probably a good thing. Sharp played great today. this is true but judgemental lol. If Rush beats HerO, I predict Sharp to take down Rush in Semi. Sharp destroyed Rush in all TvTs over the past months. | ||
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TMNT
2629 Posts
On April 01 2024 21:14 oxKnu wrote: We don't need to guess. There is already a version of Zerg that plays like Best. Hero. He looks a little bit sneakier because that race has more tools in every match-up but he has the same tunnelvision and lack of game sense. Both have the same history: Always top8-16 but routinely failing in the later stages of tournaments and their losses always look the same. NO ASL wins too. That's quite an apt comparison (with Hero). But Best's Terran doesn't necessarily look the way you described. Have you ever watched his offrace games? He pretty much rolled all the Terrans (offracing as Protoss in a TvP raceswap matchup), bar Light, with solid defend, until Protoss runs out of steam. I guess the way the race functions forces players to adapt. TvZ is actually the matchup that resembles his PvT style, where he brute forces his way to victory with insane macro. His TvZ is good enough that allows him to even beat Queen's main race. | ||
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TMNT
2629 Posts
As RJBTV and I pointed out earlier, Sharp's been on very good form recently (probably the 2nd best Terran now especially TvP) and this result is not surprising at all. Maybe it could have been different if the map order was different (Troy and NDO being out is a huge blow for Best). | ||
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ggsimida
1147 Posts
On April 01 2024 21:43 TMNT wrote: That's quite an apt comparison (with Hero). But Best's Terran doesn't necessarily look the way you described. Have you ever watched his offrace games? He pretty much rolled all the Terrans (offracing as Protoss in a TvP raceswap matchup), bar Light, with solid defend, until Protoss runs out of steam. I guess the way the race functions forces players to adapt. TvZ is actually the matchup that resembles his PvT style, where he brute forces his way to victory with insane macro. His TvZ is good enough that allows him to even beat Queen's main race. i make those posts precisely because i vaguely remember seeing some of best's terran offrace and being impressed by them. protoss has always been about exploiting and abusing spells and gimmicks like reavers to win tourneys at the highest level that is just not best's playstyle i didnt see any tvt the one that actually requires the most positioning and game sense tho think he will massively struggle in those. | ||
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TMNT
2629 Posts
On April 01 2024 22:27 ggsimida wrote: i make those posts precisely because i vaguely remember seeing some of best's terran offrace and being impressed by them. protoss has always been about exploiting and abusing spells and gimmicks like reavers to win tourneys at the highest level that is just not best's playstyle i didnt see any tvt the one that actually requires the most positioning and game sense tho think he will massively struggle in those. That'd probably be the case. Just look no further than his PvP as evidence lol. | ||
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redknights
206 Posts
Sharp and Best did have some bangers in ASL in the past, the EMP game on Sylphid in S7 and the mass mines game in S11 come to mind Proud of this kid for taking advantage of his opportunities and not choking (yet haha) Probably best-case scenario for him is Rush in the semifinals and Bisu in the finals, he has slim-to-none chance of beating Snow/Soulkey/Mini in a BO7. I also doubt he beats her0 if Rush (a TvZ god) loses to her0. let's f*cking go Sharp! | ||
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prosatan
Romania7907 Posts
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barcodejester
19 Posts
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oxKnu
1178 Posts
I was seriously impressed with Sharp's level of preparation for these games. In the past, like 80% of his TvPs would be like that last game on Apocalypse, and the P's that would see the trick and defend it well and then would just demolish him most of the times. Now, each map kind had its own strategy from Sharp's perspective. It was awesome. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
2829 Posts
Best played pretty bad. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands792 Posts
On April 02 2024 00:35 RogerChillingworth wrote: omg this was so hard to watch xD Best played pretty bad. Sharp has a great understanding of Best's strategic habits. Sharp in every game countered Best with build orders. Best made the wrong choice in response from the handicap of having limited information. Best managed to misdirect sharp into a trap in game 2. Sharp played better with his scans after and avoided a repeat. If Best went for shuttle storm builds he would have had a better chance. | ||
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Smorrie
Netherlands2922 Posts
I wouldn't necessarily say Best played to the best of his ability, but definitely didn't look terrible. He didn't look particularly sharp *cough* in RO16 either, but still took out Light, Rush & Action (in RO24)... but somehow over night he became a one sided and limited player lol. Sharp played a good series and has been in great shape lately. Terran wins? Wow lucky engagements. Zerg wins? Hydra bust, Zerg too ez Protoss wins? Wow supreme play in a time where Protoss struggles so hard, they could barely fill half the bracket. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4115 Posts
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TMNT
2629 Posts
In game 3 and 4 he just couldn't overcome the disadvantages from the openings, and despite that he made the games quite competitive, killing so many tanks (probably more than he should have). Even if you put Snow in his position there he would lose most of the times honestly, and Snow did lose to Sharp's push in the group stage from a better position than Best today. | ||
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Lazyer
United States341 Posts
Idk if the shuttle style is really working out for him, his carpet bombing was not as clean as I would have imagined. Sharp had some good game sense for the series so I'm glad that most of the games were pretty close! | ||
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TMNT
2629 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Won 6-3 against Royal Won 5-4 against Rush (but lost 0-4 in the first 4 games, then did a reverse sweep) Lost 2-7 to Light (lost 0-6 in the first 6 games lol) Won 6-3 against Light for the rematch Now if you follow these players closely you will probably know these kinds of results are so TYPICAL. Results swing back and forth on a daily basis or even during a series itself. A BO3, 5 or even 7 in ASL means very little in the grand scheme (when it comes to evaluating a player's level) | ||
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RogerChillingworth
2829 Posts
I don't have any vested interested in the balance arguments or who plays what race, I try to judge every series on its own. Sharp seemed like he came prepared and really wanted to win while Best thought he could coast with his ladder builds. I know it works sometimes, but the gateway style of just running your shit into a sieged position with mines in front—especially when the supplies are close to even—just shouldn't work. If it were a good/meta tactic then the matchup would be actually broken, as this is the best defensive position and engagement the Terran can ask for. Feel like Best did this even when he didn't know Sharp had expanded super fast, which means it REALLY shouldn't work. But he also did it from behind? Also stasising vultures instead of tanks in crucial engagements, dropping reavers in tank range and abandoning them getting 0 shots off, not retreating with goons over and over and losing them to obvious tank splatter, etc. Best underestimated Sharp and he paid for it. That or he just had an off day. Hard game. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands792 Posts
On April 02 2024 04:45 TMNT wrote: Fun facts: before today's games, Best played a total of 36 PvT games versus Royal, Rush and Light in the 4 days prior. The results: + Show Spoiler + Won 6-3 against Royal Won 5-4 against Rush (but lost 0-4 in the first 4 games, then did a reverse sweep) Lost 2-7 to Light (lost 0-6 in the first 6 games lol) Won 6-3 against Light for the rematch Now if you follow these players closely you will probably know these kinds of results are so TYPICAL. Results swing back and forth on a daily basis or even during a series itself. A BO3, 5 or even 7 in ASL means very little in the grand scheme (when it comes to evaluating a player's level) this is 100% true. The same two players can have wildly varying results over larger sample sizes. Advantages are almost very hard to lose at this level of play, specifically now that we're in 2024 and players legitimately have more than double the total games played they did compared to back in Kespa era. Every situation has been played, analyzed, and been made flow charts for. It takes BIG blungers like what happened in game 2 to lose while ahead. The player who falls behind can appear "bad" because its just so extremely difficult to play from behind. | ||
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TMNT
2629 Posts
On April 02 2024 05:41 RogerChillingworth wrote: Feel like Best did this even when he didn't know Sharp had expanded super fast, which means it REALLY shouldn't work. But he also did it from behind? Well, problem is, what can Protoss do when they are behind in PvT? As much as you don't want to dive into the race discussion, there is almost no viable option for Protoss to come back from behind (I'm sure Bonyth may concur this). Terran can camp until max and the death ball machine can turn the game around, like what Light did vs Best in the Ro16 (didn't work, but it was close) . Zerg can camp and wait for Defiler that may flip the game upside down, like what Soulkey always does. Protoss? Too late for the typical Reaver/DT mid game harassment. Carrier? Yes, if you want to die earlier. Arbiter in the modern meta only works when Protoss is at least not behind, and generally just not that useful anymore. The best option for Protoss nowadays is to patiently storm/scarab the advancing Terran army, even for one unit at a time, to gain back the advantage little by little, and generally it only works cross spawn (which Best sort of tried in game 3). And it takes a Protoss much better than the Terran player to pull that off successfully. Even Snow couldn't do it all the time, like when he tried vs Sharp in Ro16, partly because of the horizontal spawn in Retro. There were a few times in Proleague that I watched when Best came from behind by having one of his god like Gatewayman engagements, but basically he needed to hit a mine drag jackpot for it to work, which essentially is a big mistake from Terran. | ||
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TMNT
2629 Posts
Also stasising vultures instead of tanks in crucial engagements, dropping reavers in tank range and abandoning them getting 0 shots off, not retreating with goons over and over and losing them to obvious tank splatter, etc. And this can be explained quite easily if you watch a lot of games / pay attention enough. Pros do this more than you think. - The bad stasis often comes when their Arbiter can't dive deep enough into Terran's setup, so they try to stasis whatever they can before it's dead or emp'd. - Reavers are almost useless in big fights that you might as well suicide drop them in a Terran base elsewhere, rather than trying to micro them (you can't in a big fight anyway) while letting your goons and zealots on autopilot - Goons getting tank splash is just unavoidable anyway. Vultures run fast to bait goons while Tanks shoot from offscreen while you have almost no vision because they kill your observer in one second lol. | ||
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Destroyer
Czech Republic931 Posts
Best seemed really strong and consistent 3-4months ago, currently he is again little shaky (while still really strong of course) and especially against Sharp in current form (and his general playstyle) it showed up.. I feel that other RO8 options could have been better for him. | ||
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Destroyer
Czech Republic931 Posts
On April 02 2024 06:51 TMNT wrote: Well, problem is, what can Protoss do when they are behind in PvT? As much as you don't want to dive into the race discussion, there is almost no viable option for Protoss to come back from behind (I'm sure Bonyth may concur this). Terran can camp until max and the death ball machine can turn the game around, like what Light did vs Best in the Ro16 (didn't work, but it was close) . Zerg can camp and wait for Defiler that may flip the game upside down, like what Soulkey always does. Protoss? Too late for the typical Reaver/DT mid game harassment. Carrier? Yes, if you want to die earlier. Arbiter in the modern meta only works when Protoss is at least not behind, and generally just not that useful anymore. The best option for Protoss nowadays is to patiently storm/scarab the advancing Terran army, even for one unit at a time, to gain back the advantage little by little, and generally it only works cross spawn (which Best sort of tried in game 3). And it takes a Protoss much better than the Terran player to pull that off successfully. Even Snow couldn't do it all the time, like when he tried vs Sharp in Ro16, partly because of the horizontal spawn in Retro. There were a few times in Proleague that I watched when Best came from behind by having one of his god like Gatewayman engagements, but basically he needed to hit a mine drag jackpot for it to work, which essentially is a big mistake from Terran. You have to be Mini to play PvT from behind. ;-) All other Protosses barely adopted playing PvT from disadvantage, Mini was born in it.  | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13002 Posts
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Ideas
United States8082 Posts
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Nirli
Bulgaria364 Posts
On March 28 2024 15:40 Nirli wrote: When I hear Sharp, I think vulture. When I hear Best, I think zealot. Vulture > zealot. Best going his usual B rank on ladder protoss shenanigans in RO8. Vs Sharp who actually had everything planned out. | ||
Peeano
Netherlands4974 Posts
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Vasoline73
United States7799 Posts
Did feel bad for Best  | ||
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Sabu113
United States11047 Posts
Kinda want Terran to go through to get dismantled by mini or snow. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4170 Posts
On April 02 2024 04:45 TMNT wrote: Fun facts: before today's games, Best played a total of 36 PvT games versus Royal, Rush and Light in the 4 days prior. The results: + Show Spoiler + Won 6-3 against Royal Won 5-4 against Rush (but lost 0-4 in the first 4 games, then did a reverse sweep) Lost 2-7 to Light (lost 0-6 in the first 6 games lol) Won 6-3 against Light for the rematch Now if you follow these players closely you will probably know these kinds of results are so TYPICAL. Results swing back and forth on a daily basis or even during a series itself. A BO3, 5 or even 7 in ASL means very little in the grand scheme (when it comes to evaluating a player's level) This is a very true statement. The result of any particular series from ro16 onwards depend on the player's form on the day of the match and nothing else. It's just that close these days. | ||
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thossx
2 Posts
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RJBTV
194 Posts
On April 06 2024 14:31 thossx wrote: I do think Best gets nervous, does poor gameplanning, or something is going on in high stakes series play that psyches him out a bit. I expect by now not to see him in top form in the Ro8. Maybe he could use help of a coach or sports psychologist. Sharp seemed better prepared and like he wanted it more. It helps that Terran has such a strong late game push. I 100% agree that some players need sports psychologists or performance coaches to improve for offline games. It seems to be much more about being ice cold, focused, and being in the zone. | ||
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Ideas
United States8082 Posts
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Barneyk
Sweden305 Posts
On April 06 2024 22:31 Ideas wrote: I'm wondering... does it all go back to 2008 when he was a rookie who almost royal-roaded the OSL but then got stomped so hard by July that it has put a permanent mental block on his ability to perform well in high-stakes major tournaments (mostly joking)? lol That was the very first full pro starcraft match I ever saw and I've been a fan ever since! But Best doesn't adapt very well to different situations, he is to predictable in his playstyle and build orders and he doesn't prepare well enough for the maps and his opponent so he will never be champion. Sharp played very well, he came prepared and had great builds and reactions to what Best did, I rooted for Best but Sharp definitely deserved this win. Also, how do people not work harder to stop Sharps vultures?? He is so good with that and he always does it, you need to pay extra attention to that when playing Sharp, I see way to many pros not put extra care into that. | ||
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