EPTIn game 3 and 4 he just couldn't overcome the disadvantages from the openings, and despite that he made the games quite competitive, killing so many tanks (probably more than he should have). Even if you put Snow in his position there he would lose most of the times honestly, and Snow did lose to Sharp's push in the group stage from a better position than Best today.
[ASL17] Ro8 Day 1 - Page 4
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
|
TMNT
2859 Posts
In game 3 and 4 he just couldn't overcome the disadvantages from the openings, and despite that he made the games quite competitive, killing so many tanks (probably more than he should have). Even if you put Snow in his position there he would lose most of the times honestly, and Snow did lose to Sharp's push in the group stage from a better position than Best today. | ||
|
Lazyer
United States361 Posts
Idk if the shuttle style is really working out for him, his carpet bombing was not as clean as I would have imagined. Sharp had some good game sense for the series so I'm glad that most of the games were pretty close! | ||
|
TMNT
2859 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Won 6-3 against Royal Won 5-4 against Rush (but lost 0-4 in the first 4 games, then did a reverse sweep) Lost 2-7 to Light (lost 0-6 in the first 6 games lol) Won 6-3 against Light for the rematch Now if you follow these players closely you will probably know these kinds of results are so TYPICAL. Results swing back and forth on a daily basis or even during a series itself. A BO3, 5 or even 7 in ASL means very little in the grand scheme (when it comes to evaluating a player's level) | ||
|
RogerChillingworth
3027 Posts
I don't have any vested interested in the balance arguments or who plays what race, I try to judge every series on its own. Sharp seemed like he came prepared and really wanted to win while Best thought he could coast with his ladder builds. I know it works sometimes, but the gateway style of just running your shit into a sieged position with mines in front—especially when the supplies are close to even—just shouldn't work. If it were a good/meta tactic then the matchup would be actually broken, as this is the best defensive position and engagement the Terran can ask for. Feel like Best did this even when he didn't know Sharp had expanded super fast, which means it REALLY shouldn't work. But he also did it from behind? Also stasising vultures instead of tanks in crucial engagements, dropping reavers in tank range and abandoning them getting 0 shots off, not retreating with goons over and over and losing them to obvious tank splatter, etc. Best underestimated Sharp and he paid for it. That or he just had an off day. Hard game. | ||
|
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands962 Posts
On April 02 2024 04:45 TMNT wrote: Fun facts: before today's games, Best played a total of 36 PvT games versus Royal, Rush and Light in the 4 days prior. The results: + Show Spoiler + Won 6-3 against Royal Won 5-4 against Rush (but lost 0-4 in the first 4 games, then did a reverse sweep) Lost 2-7 to Light (lost 0-6 in the first 6 games lol) Won 6-3 against Light for the rematch Now if you follow these players closely you will probably know these kinds of results are so TYPICAL. Results swing back and forth on a daily basis or even during a series itself. A BO3, 5 or even 7 in ASL means very little in the grand scheme (when it comes to evaluating a player's level) this is 100% true. The same two players can have wildly varying results over larger sample sizes. Advantages are almost very hard to lose at this level of play, specifically now that we're in 2024 and players legitimately have more than double the total games played they did compared to back in Kespa era. Every situation has been played, analyzed, and been made flow charts for. It takes BIG blungers like what happened in game 2 to lose while ahead. The player who falls behind can appear "bad" because its just so extremely difficult to play from behind. | ||
|
TMNT
2859 Posts
On April 02 2024 05:41 RogerChillingworth wrote: Feel like Best did this even when he didn't know Sharp had expanded super fast, which means it REALLY shouldn't work. But he also did it from behind? Well, problem is, what can Protoss do when they are behind in PvT? As much as you don't want to dive into the race discussion, there is almost no viable option for Protoss to come back from behind (I'm sure Bonyth may concur this). Terran can camp until max and the death ball machine can turn the game around, like what Light did vs Best in the Ro16 (didn't work, but it was close) . Zerg can camp and wait for Defiler that may flip the game upside down, like what Soulkey always does. Protoss? Too late for the typical Reaver/DT mid game harassment. Carrier? Yes, if you want to die earlier. Arbiter in the modern meta only works when Protoss is at least not behind, and generally just not that useful anymore. The best option for Protoss nowadays is to patiently storm/scarab the advancing Terran army, even for one unit at a time, to gain back the advantage little by little, and generally it only works cross spawn (which Best sort of tried in game 3). And it takes a Protoss much better than the Terran player to pull that off successfully. Even Snow couldn't do it all the time, like when he tried vs Sharp in Ro16, partly because of the horizontal spawn in Retro. There were a few times in Proleague that I watched when Best came from behind by having one of his god like Gatewayman engagements, but basically he needed to hit a mine drag jackpot for it to work, which essentially is a big mistake from Terran. | ||
|
TMNT
2859 Posts
Also stasising vultures instead of tanks in crucial engagements, dropping reavers in tank range and abandoning them getting 0 shots off, not retreating with goons over and over and losing them to obvious tank splatter, etc. And this can be explained quite easily if you watch a lot of games / pay attention enough. Pros do this more than you think. - The bad stasis often comes when their Arbiter can't dive deep enough into Terran's setup, so they try to stasis whatever they can before it's dead or emp'd. - Reavers are almost useless in big fights that you might as well suicide drop them in a Terran base elsewhere, rather than trying to micro them (you can't in a big fight anyway) while letting your goons and zealots on autopilot - Goons getting tank splash is just unavoidable anyway. Vultures run fast to bait goons while Tanks shoot from offscreen while you have almost no vision because they kill your observer in one second lol. | ||
|
Destroyer
Czech Republic933 Posts
Best seemed really strong and consistent 3-4months ago, currently he is again little shaky (while still really strong of course) and especially against Sharp in current form (and his general playstyle) it showed up.. I feel that other RO8 options could have been better for him. | ||
|
Destroyer
Czech Republic933 Posts
On April 02 2024 06:51 TMNT wrote: Well, problem is, what can Protoss do when they are behind in PvT? As much as you don't want to dive into the race discussion, there is almost no viable option for Protoss to come back from behind (I'm sure Bonyth may concur this). Terran can camp until max and the death ball machine can turn the game around, like what Light did vs Best in the Ro16 (didn't work, but it was close) . Zerg can camp and wait for Defiler that may flip the game upside down, like what Soulkey always does. Protoss? Too late for the typical Reaver/DT mid game harassment. Carrier? Yes, if you want to die earlier. Arbiter in the modern meta only works when Protoss is at least not behind, and generally just not that useful anymore. The best option for Protoss nowadays is to patiently storm/scarab the advancing Terran army, even for one unit at a time, to gain back the advantage little by little, and generally it only works cross spawn (which Best sort of tried in game 3). And it takes a Protoss much better than the Terran player to pull that off successfully. Even Snow couldn't do it all the time, like when he tried vs Sharp in Ro16, partly because of the horizontal spawn in Retro. There were a few times in Proleague that I watched when Best came from behind by having one of his god like Gatewayman engagements, but basically he needed to hit a mine drag jackpot for it to work, which essentially is a big mistake from Terran. You have to be Mini to play PvT from behind. ;-) All other Protosses barely adopted playing PvT from disadvantage, Mini was born in it.  | ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13154 Posts
| ||
|
Ideas
United States8125 Posts
| ||
|
Nirli
Bulgaria372 Posts
On March 28 2024 15:40 Nirli wrote: When I hear Sharp, I think vulture. When I hear Best, I think zealot. Vulture > zealot. Best going his usual B rank on ladder protoss shenanigans in RO8. Vs Sharp who actually had everything planned out. | ||
Peeano
Netherlands5147 Posts
| ||
|
Vasoline73
United States7808 Posts
Did feel bad for Best  | ||
|
Sabu113
United States11063 Posts
Kinda want Terran to go through to get dismantled by mini or snow. | ||
|
M3t4PhYzX
Poland4211 Posts
On April 02 2024 04:45 TMNT wrote: Fun facts: before today's games, Best played a total of 36 PvT games versus Royal, Rush and Light in the 4 days prior. The results: + Show Spoiler + Won 6-3 against Royal Won 5-4 against Rush (but lost 0-4 in the first 4 games, then did a reverse sweep) Lost 2-7 to Light (lost 0-6 in the first 6 games lol) Won 6-3 against Light for the rematch Now if you follow these players closely you will probably know these kinds of results are so TYPICAL. Results swing back and forth on a daily basis or even during a series itself. A BO3, 5 or even 7 in ASL means very little in the grand scheme (when it comes to evaluating a player's level) This is a very true statement. The result of any particular series from ro16 onwards depend on the player's form on the day of the match and nothing else. It's just that close these days. | ||
|
thossx
2 Posts
| ||
|
RJBTV
194 Posts
On April 06 2024 14:31 thossx wrote: I do think Best gets nervous, does poor gameplanning, or something is going on in high stakes series play that psyches him out a bit. I expect by now not to see him in top form in the Ro8. Maybe he could use help of a coach or sports psychologist. Sharp seemed better prepared and like he wanted it more. It helps that Terran has such a strong late game push. I 100% agree that some players need sports psychologists or performance coaches to improve for offline games. It seems to be much more about being ice cold, focused, and being in the zone. | ||
|
Ideas
United States8125 Posts
| ||
|
Barneyk
Sweden306 Posts
On April 06 2024 22:31 Ideas wrote: I'm wondering... does it all go back to 2008 when he was a rookie who almost royal-roaded the OSL but then got stomped so hard by July that it has put a permanent mental block on his ability to perform well in high-stakes major tournaments (mostly joking)? lol That was the very first full pro starcraft match I ever saw and I've been a fan ever since! But Best doesn't adapt very well to different situations, he is to predictable in his playstyle and build orders and he doesn't prepare well enough for the maps and his opponent so he will never be champion. Sharp played very well, he came prepared and had great builds and reactions to what Best did, I rooted for Best but Sharp definitely deserved this win. Also, how do people not work harder to stop Sharps vultures?? He is so good with that and he always does it, you need to pay extra attention to that when playing Sharp, I see way to many pros not put extra care into that. | ||
| ||
