[ASL11] Semifinals A

On May 23 2021 15:59 asel wrote:
Mini! We are all with you today.

On May 23 2021 19:04 Peeano wrote:
Thx for the LR thread. Sick banner btw, v1!

Gogo Mini!!! If these 2 can deliver an exciting 3-2 either way, I will happily watch 2 bo7 ZvZs if need be.

On May 23 2021 19:06 prosatan wrote:

4-3 I think , because there are in total 7 games

On May 23 2021 19:34 bovienchien wrote:
Mini 0 - 4 Queen, I guess

On May 23 2021 19:41 prosatan wrote:
GG!!

1-0 for zero !

But it is only one game! i don't know why all pros are saying if they win first game, they'll win the whole match with 3-0 or 4-0

On May 23 2021 19:48 Peeano wrote:

Psychological warfare pretty much. It gives you a huge edge in a series if you can break your opponent's mental early on.

On May 23 2021 19:50 prosatan wrote:
ok! Our favorite map FS !!

On May 23 2021 19:50 prosatan wrote:
ok! Our favorite map FS !!

mini- bottom right
zero- bottom left

On May 23 2021 19:52 Peeano wrote:

lol

On May 23 2021 20:13 Szinkler wrote:
very smart play by Mini

On May 23 2021 19:06 Magic Powers wrote:
I believe Queen has been fooling people on stream by not playing his best lately. I'm convinced he's been perfecting his strats and he's likely going to roflstomp Mini.

On May 23 2021 20:45 Magic Powers wrote:


I must've had a few too many coffees today :sips:

On May 23 2021 20:38 Magic Powers wrote:
Queen didn't focus on the pylon enough. That allowed for a fresh zealot to pop out. Big mistake.

On May 23 2021 20:47 Sonic_md wrote:
Final will be SUPER
mini vs larva will be amazing final,,, larva looking so strong now

On May 23 2021 20:48 KT_Parry wrote:
Why so some call zero and others say queen?
wHY weren artoises and tasles casting tonight as well/?

On May 23 2021 20:48 Sonic_md wrote:
will be FIRST PvsZ final for all ASL seasons

On May 23 2021 20:47 LpTraxamillion wrote:


He wins if he either goes all in on it or completely ignores it. Of course Mini played the situation about as well as you can but Zero should NEVER lose in that situation

On May 23 2021 20:48 KT_Parry wrote:
Why so some call zero and others say queen?
wHY weren artoises and tasles casting tonight as well/?

On May 23 2021 20:51 LpTraxamillion wrote:
Also, since when is Mini better than Snow?

On May 23 2021 20:58 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
Trying to understand last game.. should zero have gone for the forge instead of the pylon?

On May 23 2021 21:02 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:

Only when he wins.But tl posters memory is super selective.Holyshit I remember how each time mini loss in KSL or ASL in very strange ways u all said his pvz was trash lol . Remember hero vs Mini in the super imba maps ?

On May 23 2021 21:02 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:

Only when he wins.But tl posters memory is super selective.Holyshit I remember how each time mini loss in KSL or ASL in very strange ways u all said his pvz was trash lol . Remember hero vs Mini in the super imba maps ?

On May 23 2021 21:01 LpTraxamillion wrote:


I think he could have just microd his lings better, not had half in the main doing nothing a decent amount of the time, and targeted probes when mini sent them to fight more often. He kept getting zealot to 20 hp then leaving to do something else and let shield recharge.

Don't think attacking forge would be correct. It builds hp very fast; usually better to just snipe the cannons themselves

On May 23 2021 21:42 ggsimida wrote:
meh overall mini is a pretty inconsistent player himself. just last ASL season he lost to all 3 zergs he played against (0-1 to hero 0-1 to soma and 1-2 to soulkey).

at least mini showed up today while zero didn't (except for the first game)

i get good vibes about hero this season its his time to shine. but inform mini isdefinitely dangerous with a lot of tricks up his sleeves. will be a good finals (larva gonna job the zvz lmao)

On May 23 2021 21:02 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:

Only when he wins.But tl posters memory is super selective.Holyshit I remember how each time mini loss in KSL or ASL in very strange ways u all said his pvz was trash lol . Remember hero vs Mini in the super imba maps ?

On May 24 2021 03:42 Marl wrote:
so does Larva have the best chance to win the final against Mini? He just beat down Bisu and Snow in the ro16..

On May 24 2021 03:51 prosatan wrote:

Hero has very good zvp too ! And I think he is the favorite in the second semifinal

On May 24 2021 03:42 Marl wrote:
so does Larva have the best chance to win the final against Mini? He just beat down Bisu and Snow in the ro16..

On May 24 2021 07:44 RowdierBob wrote:

Larva or Hero would prob be favourite in a series vs Mini.

On May 24 2021 11:26 Magic Powers wrote:


Would love to know what Bisu means by that, because I don't see what's "new" about any of what Mini did. He used a variety of (well-known) builds so he could stay unpredictable. That's a basic requirement when facing a strong, intelligent opponent like Queen, you can't use the same two builds over and over or you'll get punished. And Queen arguably did punish Mini eventually with a ling all-in, but in my opinion he threw that game. Should've been a closer series.

Not trying to take anything away from Mini, I think with the (really intelligent) way he played he deserved to have a 3-2 lead. But the 4-1 roflstomp was more Queen messing up than Mini showing a new meta.

On May 24 2021 13:50 Optimate wrote:
What do people think about Mini’s odds against Hero? Zero was a good opponent. Is Hero in better shape than Zero?

On May 24 2021 13:50 Optimate wrote:
What do people think about Mini’s odds against Hero? Zero was a good opponent. Is Hero in better shape than Zero?

On May 24 2021 18:26 Leonix wrote:
Lol, Wtf some of the guys here really seem to be on a trip of some sort...
Queen hasnt played well this season, i dont get why they thought it would be easy for him. The only reason he went so far was on one hand he was seeded and on the other hand, queen is just that good, that even when he plays horrible still good enought to beat all players. Of course he needs to win more than one time... Pretty unreal with the stuff he is bringing to this season.

Even in Game 1 vs Mini in the semisfinals, he made questionables engagements, good lucky at the cannonrush multiple times ... Mini cancealing pylon, cancealing cannon, Mini kiling his own pylon...
Than making more than questionable decision, losing so many hydras for free... running into storms multiple times ... On a map that arguable has some benefits for Zerg in cancealing toss 3rd ... Like low ground expansion...

And the last game being mental breakdown or whatever... A symbol for his whole season really ... Getting lucky with his opponents/opponents condition and build, but making very bad decisions and mistakes.


A hard day for Zero fans

On May 24 2021 12:49 RWLabs wrote:

Did no one in the thread mention that Mini didn't scout in games 2, 3, and 5?

What Bisu and Sea (and all of Ygosu) were impressed by is that by not scouting, the Protoss can pull the tech tree forwards quite a bit- according to Bisu it's about 100 extra minerals by the natural expansion timing. This means a horde of zealots before the Zerg is ready, as well as faster tech. All in the early game where every second is precious.

The weaknesses to this build are 12 hatchery and 9 pool. So after Mini did a no scout build twice, Zero tried to punish him with a 12 hatchery. Only, Mini knew this would happen, so he did a 99 gate. As for the 9 pool option, well we saw what happened in game 5. Zero blundered the offense after getting tilted in that game, true, but Mini is one of the best Protosses at defending against lings thanks to his flawless micro.

For more background, Mini is known as a 'pervert Protoss' who does off the wall builds often (basically 90% of his Youtube content), and is renowned for his micro. This no-scout strategy is essentially the perfect strategy for him, which relies on unpredictability and excellent micro to fend against advantageous builds.

I'm sure Zergs would adapt quickly to this, but I can see progamers skipping scouting every once in a while after this.

EDIT: May I also remind everyone that Queen's ZvP was 90+ before this series

On May 25 2021 00:31 Destroyer wrote:


Oh finally someone mentioned here. Mini really brought different meta into those games. Not scouting untill hydrabust timing (which is pretty much the only thing you really want to scout), was great. Also he made only one cannon and no more, when he was sure there is no hydrabust comming. Another thing to mention, he was saving his zealots and massing them instead of sending one by one around map with questionable results, while only faking his pressure (forcing Queen to make zerglings), that really gave him more substantial edge when +1 upg / legs combo was done.

On May 24 2021 23:24 RKC wrote:
Zerg fanboys are really such a salty af bunch lol (both in BW and SC2).

When their race is owning, it's not imbalance -> Zerg players are the best at the top level

When a top Zerg Player X loses -> oh no, he's in a slump, the top Zerg now is actually Player Y...

Basically, top Zergs at top form are the best BW/SC2 players ever.

Mini played superbly well. Why is it so hard to accept that? Sure, Zero made mistakes, but if it was the reverse, Zerg fanboys will be saying "Yeah, Zero is awesome, he forces mistakes out of top Terran/Protoss, Zero can only play against the opponent that's in front of him, unfair to take away his greatness just because others bungle up, blah blah..."

On May 24 2021 23:24 RKC wrote:
Zerg fanboys are really such a salty af bunch lol (both in BW and SC2).

When their race is owning, it's not imbalance -> Zerg players are the best at the top level

When a top Zerg Player X loses -> oh no, he's in a slump, the top Zerg now is actually Player Y...

Basically, top Zergs at top form are the best BW/SC2 players ever.

Mini played superbly well. Why is it so hard to accept that? Sure, Zero made mistakes, but if it was the reverse, Zerg fanboys will be saying "Yeah, Zero is awesome, he forces mistakes out of top Terran/Protoss, Zero can only play against the opponent that's in front of him, unfair to take away his greatness just because others bungle up, blah blah..."

On May 24 2021 12:49 RWLabs wrote:

Did no one in the thread mention that Mini didn't scout in games 2, 3, and 5?

What Bisu and Sea (and all of Ygosu) were impressed by is that by not scouting, the Protoss can pull the tech tree forwards quite a bit- according to Bisu it's about 100 extra minerals by the natural expansion timing. This means a horde of zealots before the Zerg is ready, as well as faster tech. All in the early game where every second is precious.

The weaknesses to this build are 12 hatchery and 9 pool. So after Mini did a no scout build twice, Zero tried to punish him with a 12 hatchery. Only, Mini knew this would happen, so he did a 99 gate. As for the 9 pool option, well we saw what happened in game 5. Zero blundered the offense after getting tilted in that game, true, but Mini is one of the best Protosses at defending against lings thanks to his flawless micro.

For more background, Mini is known as a 'pervert Protoss' who does off the wall builds often (basically 90% of his Youtube content), and is renowned for his micro. This no-scout strategy is essentially the perfect strategy for him, which relies on unpredictability and excellent micro to fend against advantageous builds.

I'm sure Zergs would adapt quickly to this, but I can see progamers skipping scouting every once in a while after this.

EDIT: May I also remind everyone that Queen's ZvP was 90+ before this series

On May 27 2021 18:28 Magic Powers wrote:
Hmm, Bisu doesn't exist I guess.

On May 27 2021 22:58 smilevideo1 wrote:
mini has undeniably top notch pvz (especially his zealot control, like damn it looks better than bisu's) but can't help but think he got a little lucky facing virtually 0 good terrans

On May 24 2021 12:49 RWLabs wrote:

Did no one in the thread mention that Mini didn't scout in games 2, 3, and 5?

What Bisu and Sea (and all of Ygosu) were impressed by is that by not scouting, the Protoss can pull the tech tree forwards quite a bit- according to Bisu it's about 100 extra minerals by the natural expansion timing. This means a horde of zealots before the Zerg is ready, as well as faster tech. All in the early game where every second is precious.

The weaknesses to this build are 12 hatchery and 9 pool. So after Mini did a no scout build twice, Zero tried to punish him with a 12 hatchery. Only, Mini knew this would happen, so he did a 99 gate. As for the 9 pool option, well we saw what happened in game 5. Zero blundered the offense after getting tilted in that game, true, but Mini is one of the best Protosses at defending against lings thanks to his flawless micro.

For more background, Mini is known as a 'pervert Protoss' who does off the wall builds often (basically 90% of his Youtube content), and is renowned for his micro. This no-scout strategy is essentially the perfect strategy for him, which relies on unpredictability and excellent micro to fend against advantageous builds.

I'm sure Zergs would adapt quickly to this, but I can see progamers skipping scouting every once in a while after this.

EDIT: May I also remind everyone that Queen's ZvP was 90+ before this series

On May 27 2021 18:28 Magic Powers wrote:
Hmm, Bisu doesn't exist I guess.

On May 27 2021 18:43 M2 wrote:

he is a streamer now. the scene is small and the gap between streamers and the pseudo pros is not big, but still, its there

On May 29 2021 19:00 TheGloob wrote:
anyone know if there will be an event/audience allowed for grand finals?

On May 29 2021 15:18 Magic Powers wrote:


Now that's a seriously controversial hot take I must say. Are you saying results, not personal bias, should determine skill

On May 30 2021 10:45 ggsimida wrote:
bisu won a sonic league back in 2014. he also achieve 3rd and 4th in asl3 and asl4 respectively (not sure why thats not included in his liquipedia bio at time of this post lmao). so you can't say he didn't do nuthing

but is that better than mini's 3 grand finals appearance? hmm

On May 30 2021 16:34 Magic Powers wrote:
I'm just wondering wherefrom people get their alcohol that it makes them say Bisu has been "accomplishing nothing". I want some of that quality

Counting each single game, he has a 62.1% (41 : 25) winrate in 2021. In 2020 it was 58.9% (73 : 51).
Bisu/Matches

Do not mistake this as me downplaying Mini's achievements. His results (especially as of late) are impressive.
Using the same metric as above, his 2021 results so far are... wait for it... 62.1% (36 : 22), the same winrate as Bisu's, just over a smaller sample. In 2020 it was 47.9% (34 : 37).
Mini/Matches

Both Bisu and Mini keep improving their winrates. Bisu in 2019 (after his return) had 51.9% (14 : 13). He has improved consistently and very significantly, so the only direction for him in the near future seems to be up (perhaps also for everyone else since Flash is afk). Likewise Mini has improved very significantly, being pretty much neck-and-neck with Bisu now.

To conclude: we don't have to downplay Bisu's skill just to emphasize Mini's. They're both two of the strongest players at the moment.

On May 30 2021 22:18 TMNT wrote:
It was actually 3rd place for Bisu in ASL4, not 4th.

Not trying to undermine Mini, but come on, he's on a hot run this ASL. Some people only watch ASL and draw conclusions from the small sample size they see. Long-term speaking, he's still behind Bisu, Best and Snow.

On May 31 2021 04:06 ruhtraeel wrote:
Mini's PvZ might carry him to a championship this season.

It's funny because his PvZ (and PvP due to the season where it was 4 Protosses in the Ro 4) is so disproportionately better than his PvT (even more so than Bisu) that it's a total dice roll as to how far he'll go in a tournament. Because of this, even if he wins the championship, I still am hesitant in calling him the best Protoss right now, when Best and even Bisu have more well-rounded matchups.

Bit of info: Mini has played something like 30 games of PvZ in the ASL, and something like 15 total games COMBINED of PvT and PvP. He just seems to roll the PvZ matchup way more.

On May 31 2021 16:33 LpTraxamillion wrote:


Best is the best toss in the world PvT but Mini is much better PvZ and also better PvP

On May 25 2021 00:31 Destroyer wrote:


Oh finally someone mentioned here. Mini really brought different meta into those games. Not scouting untill hydrabust timing (which is pretty much the only thing you really want to scout), was great. Also he made only one cannon and no more, when he was sure there is no hydrabust comming. Another thing to mention, he was saving his zealots and massing them instead of sending one by one around map with questionable results, while only faking his pressure (forcing Queen to make zerglings), that really gave him more substantial edge when +1 upg / legs combo was done.