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[ASL10] Ro8 Day 4 - Page 19

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Light-
Profile Joined October 2020
United States25 Posts
November 01 2020 01:38 GMT
#361
On November 01 2020 07:01 fairlight wrote:
I feel like random takes all the excitement for me (personally) out of a matchup, really don't like it being an option. I just want to see high level matchups, a BO7 of just TvZ so we can conclude what the current state of TvZ is in late 2020. But this gives us nothing. I posted the same comment on youtube as well but every matchup with random feels like a showmatch. It ruins an aspect of the game.


Yeah I don't normally really like random either, it is kind of gimmicky. I'd rather Flash just straight up pick P or Z, that would be most impressive. But I'll take what I can get.
Sif_
Profile Joined January 2011
Brazil3106 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-01 01:57:49
November 01 2020 01:57 GMT
#362
Shouldnt we have a ro4 day1 thread by now?
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4103 Posts
November 01 2020 03:03 GMT
#363
On November 01 2020 10:11 Light- wrote:
Phil I appreciate what you said and I've dropped it, and I'm going to try a different line of inquiry. Hopefully it is more acceptable.

Show nested quote +
On November 01 2020 08:07 Magic Powers wrote:
Balancing a game is not as easy as simply adjusting values, it's also about functionality. Imagine your weapon of choice is a long sword and your opponent's is a short sword. Outdoors you might have an advantage, but indoors you might have a disadvantage, whereas in the woods maybe it's equal since both of the spatial asymmetries co-exist. The way the two swords function creates different effectiveness depending on the environment.
Now imagine if you could adjust the length of both swords to try to make them equally effective against each other in all three environments. Can you actually do it without making the functionality of both swords equal (same length)? That depends on whether or not you can reach the threshold where the functionality of each sword increases/decreases so that there can be a change in effectiveness, but not so much that the opposing weapon becomes too weak or too strong - in all three environments. And in the case of BW, you have to do this for three completely different races.


Ah I was hoping someone would talk game design. If I'm following your analogy correctly, the essence of the swordsman and his sword is what constitutes a unit? I agree with the way you put it, it just seems frankly impossible without making the swords the same. But then how about if the swordsmen and their swords were expanded and supplemented with other tools/weapons/abilities, innately or from fellow fighters, to compensate for their advantages/disadvantages. I feel like this is similar to fighting games, and I wonder if fighting game theory is applicable to RTS.

For example, if the short swordsman was given something that would only help him outdoors, while the long swordsman something that would only help indoors. I think when this is carefully done it could help achieve a reasonable level of parity regardless of the environment, which represents the map.

Edited to expand on a lazy post.


Yes, that would be smart game design.

And then some of that balancing even goes into the meta of human abilities. For example there's a limit on human speed or accuracy or a combination thereof. This should be considered in smart game design, although it'll of course never be perfect since everyone has different skills, and it's also a commercial/philosophical question as to how difficult any given section of a game should be (and thus the "git gud" meme was born).

Then there's the built-in skill ceiling. The game design can cap the amount of skills attainable for peak performance in any given section of the game. QTE's are an obvious example.
Or this skill cap can instead be incentiviced rather than forced (i.e. "playing style" or "intelligent play") by delivering various rewards or punishments to an increase in skill or focus (yes, even punishments to an increase in skill can be part of the game design, meaning it'd be smarter for you to move on from your current activity even though you're displaying a great amount of technical ability. Think for example oldschool Boxer banking lots of resources while micro-managing his heart out. The reward goes to Flash, who finds the right time to go back into macro mode. Building marines is usually less technically challenging than micro-managing them).
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
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