On April 28 2020 03:12 BigFan wrote: I may have misread, but I believe the comment posted was that ZerO got a lot of practice against the build in practice. I think Light kinda threw in the towel in the last game. He didn't really put up much of a fight against the mutas, complete stomp but I personally like the valk build. I think it's always nice to see an old build resurface in this era.
I think you've misunderstood because I was joking that Zero struggled to win Flash in practise against 3port but he dominated Light, because Light is no Flash.
On April 28 2020 03:12 BigFan wrote: I've been saying this for a long time, but zergs need to be more aggressive and try for these runbys because a lot of the time, terrans won't even expect it. It works wonders. That game 2 made me mad though. Light may not have anticipated the runby, however, the possibility was always there and his bunker was sitting with no chokes on either side. I've seen this situation play out way too much and maybe it's because the zerg deemed it risky, but ZerO knew that light expanded without getting a marine first and he had a low count which might have also prompted the runby too.
The problem about playing aggressively as Zerg is that it's very risky and you stand to lose like an idiot if T is prepared for it and repairs the bunker while your army melts, like all the games I've seen of people trying to allin Flash when he goes 1-1-1 :/
Watching that hitchhiker game made me really nostalgic for guys like Casy. Unit control as a whole seems a lot better now but it seems like marine vs lurker micro in small numbers has really regressed.
Props to Zero nonetheless. It was nice to see very decisive play from him.
On April 28 2020 04:57 oshibori_probe wrote: Watching that hitchhiker game made me really nostalgic for guys like Casy. Unit control as a whole seems a lot better now but it seems like marine vs lurker micro in small numbers has really regressed.
Props to Zero nonetheless. It was nice to see very decisive play from him.
Ya it has regressed but in favor of better macro and/or multi-pronged attacks. I actually think early stimmed marine vs zergling micro could be much better as well, but maybe pros don't believe it is worth it. Plus we barely see those engagements anyway.
Was pumped to watch the finals, didn't get to catch them live but put it on as soon as I was home from work. Was pretty disappointing. Was hoping for something not so lopsided. Oh well, props to ZerO.
With the disbandment of team houses and smaller pool, top players are practising more against each other than during the KeSPA era. So the environment is like one giant team house. And team kill matches always get weird.
Maybe that's why top players rely more on mind-games and build order trickery instead of mechanics in long macro games?
On April 28 2020 11:05 RKC wrote: With the disbandment of team houses and smaller pool, top players are practising more against each other than during the KeSPA era. So the environment is like one giant team house. And team kill matches always get weird.
Maybe that's why top players rely more on mind-games and build order trickery instead of mechanics in long macro games?
Not necessarily that, but the players nowadays have very comparable macro compared to the old days. Flash mentioned it in one of his interviews. I'll edit when I find it.
On April 28 2020 11:05 RKC wrote: With the disbandment of team houses and smaller pool, top players are practising more against each other than during the KeSPA era. So the environment is like one giant team house. And team kill matches always get weird.
Maybe that's why top players rely more on mind-games and build order trickery instead of mechanics in long macro games?
Not necessarily that, but the players nowadays have very comparable macro compared to the old days. Flash mentioned it in one of his interviews. I'll edit when I find it.
If I remember rightly from one of his videos he said mechanics wise they're not as crisp as they used to be and when asked if he and old flash fought who would win he said that he would, but if you gave old Flash a little bit of preperation time he'd probably win due to being mechanically better.
On April 28 2020 11:05 RKC wrote: With the disbandment of team houses and smaller pool, top players are practising more against each other than during the KeSPA era. So the environment is like one giant team house. And team kill matches always get weird.
Maybe that's why top players rely more on mind-games and build order trickery instead of mechanics in long macro games?
Not necessarily that, but the players nowadays have very comparable macro compared to the old days. Flash mentioned it in one of his interviews. I'll edit when I find it.
If I remember rightly from one of his videos he said mechanics wise they're not as crisp as they used to be and when asked if he and old flash fought who would win he said that he would, but if you gave old Flash a little bit of preperation time he'd probably win due to being mechanically better.
Nothing that you said is in direct conflict with what I wrote lol.
On April 28 2020 11:05 RKC wrote: With the disbandment of team houses and smaller pool, top players are practising more against each other than during the KeSPA era. So the environment is like one giant team house. And team kill matches always get weird.
Maybe that's why top players rely more on mind-games and build order trickery instead of mechanics in long macro games?
Not necessarily that, but the players nowadays have very comparable macro compared to the old days. Flash mentioned it in one of his interviews. I'll edit when I find it.
If I remember rightly from one of his videos he said mechanics wise they're not as crisp as they used to be and when asked if he and old flash fought who would win he said that he would, but if you gave old Flash a little bit of preperation time he'd probably win due to being mechanically better.
Nothing that you said is in direct conflict with what I wrote lol.
You said players nowadays have "very comparable macro" to 10 years ago. Unless macroing does not involve mechanics, FlaSh's words do contradict yours.
On April 28 2020 11:05 RKC wrote: With the disbandment of team houses and smaller pool, top players are practising more against each other than during the KeSPA era. So the environment is like one giant team house. And team kill matches always get weird.
Maybe that's why top players rely more on mind-games and build order trickery instead of mechanics in long macro games?
Not necessarily that, but the players nowadays have very comparable macro compared to the old days. Flash mentioned it in one of his interviews. I'll edit when I find it.
If I remember rightly from one of his videos he said mechanics wise they're not as crisp as they used to be and when asked if he and old flash fought who would win he said that he would, but if you gave old Flash a little bit of preperation time he'd probably win due to being mechanically better.
Nothing that you said is in direct conflict with what I wrote lol.
You said players nowadays have "very comparable macro" to 10 years ago. Unless macroing does not involve mechanics, FlaSh's words do contradict yours.
comparable to each other is what was meant by my statement, not to 10 years ago. The poster I replied to was asking about the pros and their reliance on mind games nowadays so players having a similar level of macro to each other means mind games will play a bigger role than years ago when mechanics were being refined and differed greatly from one player to the next.
On April 28 2020 11:05 RKC wrote: With the disbandment of team houses and smaller pool, top players are practising more against each other than during the KeSPA era. So the environment is like one giant team house. And team kill matches always get weird.
Maybe that's why top players rely more on mind-games and build order trickery instead of mechanics in long macro games?
Not necessarily that, but the players nowadays have very comparable macro compared to the old days. Flash mentioned it in one of his interviews. I'll edit when I find it.
If I remember rightly from one of his videos he said mechanics wise they're not as crisp as they used to be and when asked if he and old flash fought who would win he said that he would, but if you gave old Flash a little bit of preperation time he'd probably win due to being mechanically better.
Forget about random. Flash 2010 v Flash 2020 - that's the real deal! Now, if only Skynet can get their time machine to work...
His comment seem a bit ambiguous though. Is he saying that new Flash is trickier and his mind games now can prevail over the superior mechanics of old Flash? And that preparation time (coupled with raw mechanics) can overcome any surprise builds and special tactics?
On April 28 2020 11:05 RKC wrote: With the disbandment of team houses and smaller pool, top players are practising more against each other than during the KeSPA era. So the environment is like one giant team house. And team kill matches always get weird.
Maybe that's why top players rely more on mind-games and build order trickery instead of mechanics in long macro games?
Not necessarily that, but the players nowadays have very comparable macro compared to the old days. Flash mentioned it in one of his interviews. I'll edit when I find it.
If I remember rightly from one of his videos he said mechanics wise they're not as crisp as they used to be and when asked if he and old flash fought who would win he said that he would, but if you gave old Flash a little bit of preperation time he'd probably win due to being mechanically better.
Forget about random. Flash 2010 v Flash 2020 - that's the real deal! Now, if only Skynet can get their time machine to work...
His comment seem a bit ambiguous though. Is he saying that new Flash is trickier and his mind games now can prevail over the superior mechanics of old Flash? And that preparation time (coupled with raw mechanics) can overcome any surprise builds and special tactics?
IIRC what FlaSh originally said in the interview when asked about self vs KeSPA FlaSh was that the modern FlaSh would win the initial games up until the FlaSh of the past caught up with the metagame advancements and started winning comfortably through better mechanics.
On April 28 2020 11:05 RKC wrote: With the disbandment of team houses and smaller pool, top players are practising more against each other than during the KeSPA era. So the environment is like one giant team house. And team kill matches always get weird.
Maybe that's why top players rely more on mind-games and build order trickery instead of mechanics in long macro games?
Not necessarily that, but the players nowadays have very comparable macro compared to the old days. Flash mentioned it in one of his interviews. I'll edit when I find it.
If I remember rightly from one of his videos he said mechanics wise they're not as crisp as they used to be and when asked if he and old flash fought who would win he said that he would, but if you gave old Flash a little bit of preperation time he'd probably win due to being mechanically better.
Forget about random. Flash 2010 v Flash 2020 - that's the real deal! Now, if only Skynet can get their time machine to work...
His comment seem a bit ambiguous though. Is he saying that new Flash is trickier and his mind games now can prevail over the superior mechanics of old Flash? And that preparation time (coupled with raw mechanics) can overcome any surprise builds and special tactics?
No, game knowledge has progressed and people nowadays know more details about the game than they knew back then. Hence, strategies, build orders, maneuvering of fights etc. is more advanced so old Flash would need some time to catch up knowledge-wise. If he did, he would be better because old-Flash's mechanics were better than his mechanics now (which is true for pretty much every korean pro).
While I thoroughly enjoy watching Broodwar today, the games feel more dynamic than almost ever.
I do miss the more narrow build order options and almost flawless execution of the later KESPA-days.
And it feels a bit, hmm, not sure if I can find the right word, but maybe unsatisfactory that the majority of the games to watch is streams. I wish there was more organized competitive play than sponmatches on streams etc.
Now that KSL is no more it feels a bit empty with only the ASL, the seasons don't feel long enough to really see the game develop. There are to few games to see the meta evolve on maps like Hitchhiker etc.
Still, I am so damn happy that we still have Broodwar 22 years after it was released, I was 15 when I started playing it and it is still around, truly the most timeless game ever made.
EPT
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