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Turbovolver
Australia2450 Posts
Screw you Rain, though. None of your wins really showed any incredible skill (seriously why do we have someone in here ranting about how incredible Rain's "little moves" are while he's winning proxy gate vs 14cc lolol). I'll give you that Last blundered hard in game 3. Stork vs Last to come now, what a heartbreaker  I guess the two of you would just be too beautiful for this tournament. | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On May 10 2019 23:55 Turbovolver wrote: Beautiful play from Stork, that was so wonderful <3 Screw you Rain, though. None of your wins really showed any incredible skill (seriously why do we have someone in here ranting about how incredible Rain's "little moves" are while he's winning proxy gate vs 14cc lolol). I'll give you that Last blundered hard in game 3. Stork vs Last to come now, what a heartbreaker I guess the two of you would just be too beautiful for this tournament. I admit Rain is pretty cheesy, but his micro is really good. | ||
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[AS]Rattus
428 Posts
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repomaniak
Poland324 Posts
KSL cheer kr KSL cheers KSL Rain interview KSL cheers / Storks nickname KSL Cheer | ||
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nurle
Norway308 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7584 Posts
Rain didn't make Last all-in on Colosseum. Rain didn't make Last not build a wraith or go into drop with almost no ground army. Playing such high stakes, high risk situations takes incredible skill and Last (except the terrible 14cc) played really good. Cheese is how bad players describe getting mindhuked and schooled. Rain tasted Lasts mid game in game one and noped the hell out of it. Very strong play. | ||
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razorsuKe
Canada2047 Posts
On May 11 2019 03:29 nurle wrote: Guess the era of the tyrant is over That era ended September 22, 2012 | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2450 Posts
On May 11 2019 05:07 AttackZerg wrote: Rain didn't make Last CC first. Rain didn't make Last not build a wraith or go into drop with almost no ground army. Of course not. On May 11 2019 05:07 AttackZerg wrote:Rain didn't make Last all-in on Colosseum. Actually yeah he did, considering that was a response to the disastrous early game. On May 11 2019 05:07 AttackZerg wrote:Playing such high stakes, high risk situations takes incredible skill and Last (except the terrible 14cc) played really good. Playing high risk situations requires less skill. The more variance you can introduce into the game (say, by going for very all-in builds) the more it favours you as the weaker player. On May 11 2019 05:07 AttackZerg wrote:]Cheese is how bad players describe getting mindhuked and schooled. I certainly didn't say "cheese". On May 11 2019 05:07 AttackZerg wrote:Playing such high stakes, high risk situations takes incredible skill and Last (except the terrible 14cc) played really good. Rain tasted Lasts mid game in game one and noped the hell out of it. Very strong play. Precisely! Rain realised he was the inferior player and decided to inject as much variance into the process as possible. The second zealot in game 2, the stupidly early nexus in game 3, and the proxy gate in game 4. That's not skill, unless you're saying that "realising you're inferior and going for high variance builds as a result" is skill, but then every Bnet 4pooler is carrying out your "very strong play", as you call it. We saw the same thing happen in their last meetup. Last went up 3-0, then Rain realised he was just plain and simple outclassed, and started going for way more high-variance builds. He got lucky with BO choices (even a skilled Rock-Paper-Scissors player is shooting for what, a 65%-70% winrate, so please don't act like it's some incredible display of skill to select the right builds in a sample size of ~5) and suddenly Rain equalised it to 3-3. Last, the superior player, won the last game and took the series 4-3. Note of course that a Bo7 does more to reduce the effects of variance than a Bo5. You, meanwhile, fail to see all these effects of stochasticity and only blindly analyse the results right in front of you. You're still calling Last's 14cc "horrible" while calling Rain's proxy gate genius. Really? Looks to me like they both went for a risky build and Rain happened to choose right, to me. The right thing to say would be Last shouldn't be going risky moves like 14cc. But that's only true if he's the superior player. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19384 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On May 11 2019 10:07 Turbovolver wrote: Of course not. Actually yeah he did, considering that was a response to the disastrous early game. Playing high risk situations requires less skill. The more variance you can introduce into the game (say, by going for very all-in builds) the more it favours you as the weaker player. I certainly didn't say "cheese". Precisely! Rain realised he was the inferior player and decided to inject as much variance into the process as possible. The second zealot in game 2, the stupidly early nexus in game 3, and the proxy gate in game 4. That's not skill, unless you're saying that "realising you're inferior and going for high variance builds as a result" is skill, but then every Bnet 4pooler is carrying out your "very strong play", as you call it. We saw the same thing happen in their last meetup. Last went up 3-0, then Rain realised he was just plain and simple outclassed, and started going for way more high-variance builds. He got lucky with BO choices (even a skilled Rock-Paper-Scissors player is shooting for what, a 65%-70% winrate, so please don't act like it's some incredible display of skill to select the right builds in a sample size of ~5) and suddenly Rain equalised it to 3-3. Last, the superior player, won the last game and took the series 4-3. Note of course that a Bo7 does more to reduce the effects of variance than a Bo5. You, meanwhile, fail to see all these effects of stochasticity and only blindly analyse the results right in front of you. You're still calling Last's 14cc "horrible" while calling Rain's proxy gate genius. Really? Looks to me like they both went for a risky build and Rain happened to choose right, to me. The right thing to say would be Last shouldn't be going risky moves like 14cc. But that's only true if he's the superior player. You are confusing Last with Sharp! Sharp has been superior to Rain in TvP(winning 4-3 in KSL 2's semifinals the way you attributed to Last and 3-2 when they fought to get Flash's Spot in ASL 7), Rain beat Last 3-1 at BlizzCon Invitational before losing a very even series last ASL(2-3; if I remember correctly, Rain won at least one macro game in that situation). Last's worst matchup is TvP and, in 2019, Rain's PvZ seems better than his PvT; they seem, however, evenly matched, I see no superior player overall. If Last had Sharp's PvT(and no wrists problem) he woud dominate every tournament the way Flash did in 2017. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2450 Posts
My bad >_> | ||
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nahyunjung
40 Posts
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Just_a_Moth
Canada1970 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51449 Posts
On May 11 2019 11:28 Turbovolver wrote: Hahahaha omg, I just remembered it was one of the Terrans I like and TL criminally underrates vs Rain who TL criminally overrates My bad >_> neither of that is true. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7584 Posts
Doing whatever it takes is what makes winners and losers. Rain did anything and everything he could to win and it worked. My dig earlier about how bad players define cheese and interpit games was directed at you, and it stands. Winning is the metric. Last maybe the best terran in the world. Rain fought like a wildcat to get a win. After getting crushed in game one. Rain is a match beast and he had to do all that crazy shit and still won by the narrowest margins. There is a reason Last thought 14cc was a good play there. Your analogy about battle.net four poolers is why your argument is crap. This isn't a random pairing on some server. This is a prearranged match with a set amount of maps with a real person in front of you. If you have the courage to 4pool a pro gamer 3 times in a row and it works.... then you are fucking gosu. What so boxer bunker rushing yellow 3-0 is now an admission of inferiority? Jaedongs famous muta timing vs stork on Katrina - a sign of is weakness as a player? Get real it was a dope brawl of a match with both players needling each other from the start. Beating a better player ... makes you the better player. That is how this sport works. You win. The end. Rain did everything he could. That is what champions do. Why get butt hurt about someone complimenting a player? Salty like the dead sea, amigo. All of my comments have been accurate. If you even play this game at all, you will see tons of mini meta moves rain did all match (for good or bad). | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
Precisely! Rain realised he was the inferior player and decided to inject as much variance into the process as possible. The second zealot in game 2, the stupidly early nexus in game 3, and the proxy gate in game 4. That's not skill, unless you're saying that "realising you're inferior and going for high variance builds as a result" is skill, but then every Bnet 4pooler is carrying out your "very strong play", as you call it. So skill is picking a generic low impact strategy again and again and out muscling your opponent? Thats an incredibly fucking narrow view of skill given this is a strategy game. | ||
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ggsimida
1156 Posts
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TornadoSteve
1132 Posts
Cant say the same about his performance against Stork. While its true Stork played above expectations, its JDs lack of interest that fans will remember. And i dont think Tastosis have a crush on Rain at all... The guy keeps getting better and hes already the best. And i dont even understand why he doesnt cheese more often with the micro hes got. The blame is on Last especially on his 14cc opening. 14cc vs stork next week? Ok i get it. Vs Rain when your series is on the line? Think twice. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2450 Posts
On May 11 2019 19:08 Dazed. wrote: So skill is picking a generic low impact strategy again and again and out muscling your opponent? Thats an incredibly fucking narrow view of skill given this is a strategy game. Hey, if "good at weighted rock paper scissors" is the kind of skill you want to see from your favourite Starcraft players, more power to you! I'll be over here enjoying it when Stork crushes JD with baller storms, and good harass and decision making, instead. Also AttackZerg, I'm not gonna really reply to your five paragraphs of ad hom and single argument "the more skilled player is the one who wins" (I disagree). But I'll just point out that no, when Boxer 3-0'd Yellow with bunker rushes, I wouldn't call that a very good demonstration of Boxer's skill. I mean I admit it's been ages since I saw the games, but I think it's safe to say many Terrans could have done the same thing in the same position. And you'll note that's precisely what I said in my original post here. "Those games weren't a very good demonstration of Rain's skill". If you want to actually go over all the small little things Rain apparently did that other Protoss wouldn't have, that would honestly be cool, and might increase my respect for him as a player. | ||
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Nematocyst
United States164 Posts
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