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The balance whining is starting to get out of hand. TL has always had a "zero tolerance" policy when it comes to addressing balance whine. Please be wary of what you post because we will be handing out mod actions now. | ||
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1717 Posts
On September 09 2018 21:44 intotheheart wrote: I'm sure someone else has asked but how were the actual games? Did they feel as crushing as a 4-0 makes it look? Nope. As someone else pointed out, it was a close 4-0. You should watch all games if you have time  | ||
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Miragee
8714 Posts
On September 09 2018 21:44 intotheheart wrote: I'm sure someone else has asked but how were the actual games? Did they feel as crushing as a 4-0 makes it look? Kinda, g2 and 4 surely did. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/148017-msl-summit-of-the-symphony http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/147792-msl-grand-final So much passion running through the threads. Even the TL writers were openly discussing and bantering about 'map balance'. Maybe the balance whine got overboard somewhere along the way. Maybe there were dark days in TL that I didn't live through. But you know what? I wish I could've lived through those times, dark or bright. Passion overflowing (positive or negative) is better than no passion at all. It's just like the recent World Cup which ended rather anti-climatically (depends on how you view it). Instead of focusing on Pogba or Mbappe's wonder strikes, people were hotly arguing about VAR, the refereeing, play-acting. And you know what? Football is full of passion because of such talk. Or take the recent women's US Open. Yes, Naomi Osaka should be talk of town - but Serena Williams' meltdown just adds so much colour and drama to the game. Some people choose to applaud Last's play, some people choose to lament on JD's weakened play, some people chose to talk about balance. To each their own. Each commentary invokes the passion of BW in their own way. And we should let the passion flow... Passion aside, I feel that balance is an integral part of gameplay. Did Last play amazing well? Did JD flop? Without context, I wouldn't know. Remember, BW is not a symmetrical game. I genuinely want to know if the meta or map favours one race or another, so that I can appreciate the results even more. And balance talks deepen my contextual understanding. Yes, for the old-timers, you may be sick of balance talk. If you are, just ignore it. I'm a bigger fan of football than BW. I've been following football for decades, and funnily enough, I never grow tired of debating with people and friends over refereeing, VAR, et all. Such talk may seem academic and pointless, but they're not. After decades of whining, we finally got instant replay (i.e. VAR) in football. Is it good or bad? The debate rages on. Maybe BW will never be 'patched' again. But the maps will be reviewed. Balance talk never gets old. It only dies when the sport itself dies. And I wouldn't want that happen to BW. (Sorry, I don't mean to touch on the sensitive subject of balance. I just felt like explaining where I'm coming from) | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4199 Posts
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SC_ar
United States35 Posts
JD made an amazing run, featuring multiple comeback wins. ASL6 is shaping up good. | ||
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Delial1986
29 Posts
On September 09 2018 22:32 RKC wrote: Some people choose to applaud Last's play, some people choose to lament on JD's weakened play, some people chose to talk about balance. To each their own. Each commentary invokes the passion of BW in their own way. And we should let the passion flow... Passion aside, I feel that balance is an integral part of gameplay. Did Last play amazing well? Did JD flop? Without context, I wouldn't know. Remember, BW is not a symmetrical game. I genuinely want to know if the meta or map favours one race or another, so that I can appreciate the results even more. And balance talks deepen my contextual understanding. As a passionate BW follower, and also football fan, I agree. I've just received 2 warning for balance "whine" - feels funny that you are being forced into "we don't talk about this", but well, anyway, I enjoyed this balance discussion while it LASTed. On September 09 2018 02:44 FlaShFTW wrote: Can we have an SC2 rule where balance whiners get warnings into temp bans into permas? Jesus the absolute atrocity of this thread is horrifying. Delial idk wtf you’re spewing. If Terran was so strong then why are there only two good Terrans right now in FlaSh and Last? Why can’t we ever credit the player who practiced so hard, tried new builds and strategies to win this finals? I guess BW world looks different from perspective of Flash fanboy, but well I will never know. | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3173 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On September 09 2018 20:23 REDBLUEGREEN wrote: Last going through the replays on his stream right now. It would be nice if someone could give some insights! | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On September 09 2018 03:41 Shady Sands wrote: It's really disappointing that folks would rather balance whine than comment about the sheer brilliance in some of Last's play. The reaction he pulled in game 1 to JD's ling backstab was just wonderful - he did what a Flash would usually do - pull the minimum forces needed to defend back to his nat - but on top of that, he feigned a mistake and pulled the rest of his army onto the plateau overlooking JD's 3rd to bait JD's lurkers out. I'm divided between whether this is Last reading JD or S-level positioning. What sets JD apart from other "modern era" Zergs is that he loves making small positional gambles that he believes his micro and reflexes can carry him through. This makes JD very efficient with his units (and makes his playstyle a joy to watch), but it also sets him up for punishment if his opponent can exploit that correctly. We saw Last exploit that to a T (heh heh) today. Maybe Last did this because he intuitively "knows" it's the optimal positional move (sacrificing a little position to bait a move-out) or because he understands JD's positional style almost as well as Flash understood JD's build orders. But either way, I haven't seen this ability to induce mistakes in his opponent in any player since peak Savior or Flash. I was watching the game as a JD fan but I, too suspected that Last might have did some next level shit in g1 with that retreat. This is in line with how, in every game, Last was able to read JD perfectly and reacted so well to every trick JD had in his book. Additionally JD was slow to split his mutas when they were irradiated. (Is it even necessary to stack them when you know they don't have a huge bio army yet, and you know they would have vessels out?) Last just outplayed JD in the series. I'm sad as a JD fan but happy as a BW fan for the great games. | ||
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batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On September 10 2018 10:50 batsnacks wrote: lol 'next level' Last almost lost an easy game 1 then JD did gimmick builds for the rest of the series cause he was tilted by a bunker rush. quality of games was shocking for a bo7 finals. Care to elaborate on said "gimmick" builds? And how you deduced JD got "tilted"? I say he played 3 very solid games (game two was absurd). | ||
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Motivate
2860 Posts
Jaedong did a ling counter attack in the main and Last initially looked like he was retreating. Then he stopped retreating and I thought he was just being indecisive. But instead he camped on top of the high ground. JD took a gamble going up the high ground and got punished. It was a pretty genius idea by Last but unfortunately everyone just says how "stupid" JD was for running up the high ground. I guess on one hand I'm happy Last played so well. On the other hand he's a cat person so that's pretty disappointing. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
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Miragee
8714 Posts
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larra
Germany44 Posts
Yes it is imbalance and I'm not whining. Since when it's whining if one gives his own opinion ? Teamliquid was not like this before. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On September 12 2018 03:08 larra wrote: agree. the flipside of this though is that once zerg gets defilier it is much harder for terran to win. the game has become way too binary and figured out: zerg is impossibly behind in an economic sense unless there mutas do disproportionate amounts of damage, then they have to hide behind dark swarm. Thats zvt. Use mutas to overcome the fact that terran is strategically far ahead of zerg/has infinitely more options, adaptability etc, and then use a rigged unit while cowering. no amount of map shenanigans are going to change the fact that terran can do whatever the fuck they want and zerg only have four options:I watched this final after a long break from starcraft. It's almost over 10 years now from the golden age, I was in early 30s back then. I'm an old guy now and while I feel glad and nostalgic seeing jaedong again, the game seems somewhat pointless to me. Terran has too many options early game, middle game and end game, it is so obvious that anyone who understands statistics knows that it has the upper hand, given equal skills from both sides . Yes it is imbalance and I'm not whining. Since when it's whining if one gives his own opinion ? Teamliquid was not like this before. 2 hatch lurker 2 hatch muta 3 hatch lurker 3 hatch muta damn what a good "strategy" game. User was warned for this post. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8931 Posts
On September 12 2018 03:14 Dazed. wrote: agree. the flipside of this though is that once zerg gets defilier it is much harder for terran to win. the game has become way too binary and figured out: zerg is impossibly behind in an economic sense unless there mutas do disproportionate amounts of damage, then they have to hide behind dark swarm. Thats zvt. Use mutas to overcome the fact that terran is strategically far ahead of zerg/has infinitely more options, adaptability etc, and then use a rigged unit while cowering. no amount of map shenanigans are going to change the fact that terran can do whatever the fuck they want and zerg only have four options: 2 hatch lurker 2 hatch muta 3 hatch lurker 3 hatch muta damn what a good "strategy" game. User was warned for this post. i see you complain about lack of strategy or depth quite a lot. the game is not "way too binary". just because you dont understand the game doesnt make the game bad. you think all it takes to be a pro is memorising build orders and maximising production efficiency or something? stop belittling their skills. if anything is binary its only your understanding of how to play | ||
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