[ASL5] Ro16 Group C

On April 15 2018 19:25 Qikz wrote:
That was one of the best ZvZs in the entire 20 history of Broodwar

On April 15 2018 20:08 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
Rain take note. You dont need to suicide and break a turtle zerg, especially when you have complete map control. Protoss can go head to head maxed out against zerg just fine. This game was actually incredibly hard for shuttle coz he got behind in bases.

On April 15 2018 20:10 xccam wrote:

I don't know if that's quite right, I think that's just how PvZ on this map works.
Because of the wide open nature of any potential third protoss needs what Day9 would have called a really "muscular" army to fight zerg and hold bases, unlike the tucked away thirds like on FS where a more technical army with DTs and strategically placed templar can hold on low supply counts can hold it early on.

Shuttle played it (in my opinion) the right way, getting a huge army and then securing his bases by just bullying zergs army all around the map.

On April 15 2018 20:15 oxKnu wrote:
Cool game as well. Effort should've tapped out like 5 minutes earlier though.

On April 15 2018 20:33 byj wrote:
I really want Shuttle to win this, I want JD to advance

On April 15 2018 20:34 r.Evo wrote:
If Shuttle wins this then Larva or JD are out ):

On April 15 2018 20:39 Terrorbladder wrote:
The remastered Disruption Web looks uglier than original one.

On April 15 2018 20:39 maybenexttime wrote:
Those games are super fun today. :D

On April 15 2018 20:44 WiMa11 wrote:


It is just incredible. Every game today has easily highlight video potential.

On April 15 2018 20:35 razorsuKe wrote:


then JD would have to zvz his way to the end :o

On April 15 2018 18:46 arbiter_md wrote:
Does anybody here think Shuttle actually has any chance?

On April 15 2018 20:58 oxKnu wrote:
Shuttle played like a god. The games were great overall as well. It's not like Larva played anywhere close to bad.

On April 15 2018 21:12 GTR wrote:
honestly glitching those lings wouldnt have even mattered, effort just outplayed jaedong hard.

On April 15 2018 21:13 Ikirouta wrote:
As I told Artosis on the discord, and as I mentioned in my 2 hour analysis video, you can't glitch lings thru the gates from main-> island side properly. You can do it from island side -> main.

Guess Koreans didn't know that.

On April 15 2018 21:12 Malinor wrote:
Enroll in the military and get on with your life.

Please.

On April 15 2018 21:15 CoL_DarkstaR wrote:
By the way, i love the semi-island map (sorry, i forgot the name). Anyone else feeling like it turned out way better than expected?

On April 15 2018 21:16 AnarchisticObi1 wrote:

do you want to tell me, that jaedong try this for the first time now? and didnt try during practice?

On April 15 2018 21:16 AnarchisticObi1 wrote:

do you want to tell me, that jaedong try this for the first time now? and didnt try during practice?

On April 15 2018 21:18 Skeny wrote:


I think it's producing great games, but I still feel it's horribly imbalanced. If shuttle lost that (and it felt like he came close!) I'd be so mad at it!

On April 15 2018 21:18 Skeny wrote:


I think it's producing great games, but I still feel it's horribly imbalanced. If shuttle lost that (and it felt like he came close!) I'd be so mad at it!

On April 15 2018 21:19 Ikirouta wrote:


I really want to put emphasis on the word PROPERLY
the success rate from main -> island is way too low to pull of reliably.

On April 15 2018 21:19 Shock710 wrote:

maybe it was like a fan randomly suggesting it to jaedong that he try it, and he didnt practice it and remember that random bit of info during the game and tried it out not knowing it was misinformation

On April 15 2018 21:26 Shock710 wrote:
is there a zerg that can beat flash in a bo3 though, i would have thought jaedong and soulkey (maybe larva) would have the best chance but now theres only larva

On April 15 2018 21:25 BlackJack wrote:
why didn't effort micro his drones at all? ;o

On April 15 2018 21:33 Skeny wrote:


I think he was microing the lings in Lava's base

On April 15 2018 21:29 Incomplete..ReV wrote:


There's herO too.

On April 15 2018 22:20 Golgotha wrote:
hell yeah, 100% agree. just read the comments from the previous pages; there was definitely something incredible about tonight's first three games. I really hope this brings more interest to BW so we can get more tournaments! How can you not love this game? the shit we saw today, no other game can replicate that kind of skill.

On April 15 2018 22:26 razorsuKe wrote:



I think something that might be under-appreciated is effOrt's eye on his bases, he ran away from dts so many times when overlords were not even close by.

Think about that for a minute, there was LOTS of stuff going on at that moment, he had to position units, macro, build other stuff and at the same time he was checking his nat for the slightest of movements in the air to recognize that a dt was there.

Keep in mind he reacted before even a single drone was killed so other than waves in the air, there was nothing letting him know that his drones were in trouble.

On April 15 2018 22:31 Peeano wrote:
I was actually quite disappointed with Shuttle's D-webs. Compared to how great his storms and micro was in general, I expected better D-webs.

On April 15 2018 22:44 Xeln4g4 wrote:
Did anyone else find the game conduct of Effort (vs Shuttle) very suspicious? Zero storm dodging (seems like he actually wanted to be stormed) zero tactical play, units wasting (what he did to take 3 o clock it's just "meh?!!?". 5000 minerals wasted to take down a mined Nexus ... not to talk about the sloppy drop or the mass suiciding lurkers...), general passive play ... lurker use unwatchable .... i am not gonna say anything, well, indeed i am, but there are bets on Afreeca Starleague up, since at least 10 days on various betting site ... i really wouldn't wonder if something come up on the fixing side ... this play on this map is really suspicious.

On April 15 2018 22:48 Golgotha wrote:


nah man. let's not go there. effort did his best and just made a mistake wasting units on the 3 o'clock. he was in such a dominant position and maxed, he felt like he could force the issue at any location. he was wrong.

On April 15 2018 22:52 Xeln4g4 wrote:


Didn't see this dominant position at all ... maybe he had some minor advantage when he set up an early 4th base, while P didn't have 3rd base yet. Beside this ... i am not sure we can say Z was ahead in any part of the match, and when and if he was, he just camp and give P time to catch up. I really don't know what to think ...

On April 15 2018 22:55 oxKnu wrote:


Then you're wrong.

For a lot of that game any Zerg should've felt great about his position on the map and in the game. It's just that Effort didn't trade well any of the exchanges and didn't adapt to any of the losses either. Which happened in his last game as well.

That's his downfall in the end, 500apm but not very clever about it.

On April 15 2018 23:35 Xeln4g4 wrote:
Why it is not possible to express a simply opinion on this site?!?!? What is happening to teamliquid, not that this site was ever an example of freedom but maaaan, you can't even express an out of the chorus opinion without being warned, this is really excessive. I am not trash talking and i am not offending anyone, i am just wondering, any good Z user can say this game was not played out in a clever way. Accusing someone is something else ... i am just wondering on a PvZ match.

On April 15 2018 23:48 Golgotha wrote:


let me guess, it was probably because you suggested matchfixing was involved. what else do you think it was for? Or was your reference to betting sites just harmless conversation? to even imply that effort may have thrown the game is egregious, and TL is correct to avoid such conversation. Otherwise, we'd have it every single time a player fucks up in a match. It's BW, pros can't play perfect and sometimes far from it.

On April 16 2018 00:05 Xeln4g4 wrote:
Not gonna on with this topic, since it appear to be forbidden. But there are way and way to "throw" matches ... and "throw" is different from losing.

On April 16 2018 00:05 Xeln4g4 wrote:


Not gonna on with this topic, since it appear to be forbidden. But there are way and way to "throw" matches ... and "throw" is different from losing.

On April 16 2018 00:12 hiro protagonist wrote:
I'm absolutely ecstatic that shuttle made it through, as equally crushed that JD didn't.

BW giveth and taketh.

On April 15 2018 22:31 Peeano wrote:
I was actually quite disappointed with Shuttle's D-webs. Compared to how great his storms and micro was in general, I expected better D-webs.

On April 16 2018 04:23 _Animus_ wrote:
Well, i guess thats how good the games can be in Ro16 if you just leave 2 weeks for players to prepare, as i dont have any other logical explanation of this. Group A and B was played right after the group selection and we couldnt see the full potential of the players, so Afreeca please give us quality over quantity, leave more days between different stages off tour, or just make it ro16 osl format where time preparation is the same for every player. Im super excited for tomorrows group.

On April 16 2018 07:53 RogerChillingworth wrote:
Shuttle played brilliantly. Interesting that Artosis did not consider him a tip-top level Protoss before today.

On April 16 2018 01:29 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i saw it coming from effort,the guy is playing team games 12 hours/day,looks like Flash is really affecting the competition.

On April 15 2018 22:55 oxKnu wrote:


Then you're wrong.

For a lot of that game any Zerg should've felt great about his position on the map and in the game. It's just that Effort didn't trade well any of the exchanges and didn't adapt to any of the losses either. Which happened in his last game as well.

That's his downfall in the end, 500apm but not very clever about it.

On April 16 2018 14:15 Miragee wrote:
3 really great games. That first ZvZ was actually quite tense and Jaedong almost managed to crawl back in. If he didn't lose the Muta he could have edged out a win. Too bad. His second game against effort was pretty bad. I thought he would go for a ling all-in and just break Effort's main. Instead he miss-microed it very badly and even without that Effort somehow had way more lings...

I'm very impressed by Shuttle. His game plans and adaptions were pretty damn solid and his late game management was monstrous. That was some great display in both games, especially on zerg-favoured maps in the match-up. To be fair I think Transistor only favours zerg in the early to mid game. The late game plays more similar to Bluestorm because there aren't a lot of attack patterns and protoss can split the map rather well. Still pretty good play against Effort, he played that down like a boss. His performance vs Larva on Third World was even more impressive though. Gave me nerd-chills.

The last game was pretty much a build order win. I think Larva got a bit too greedy and squeezed in a few more drones. Pretty unnecessary. But yeah, after he held that, the game was over because Effort committed too many zerglings instead of teching as fast as possible.



Just to address this: I have never been a fan of Effort and think he is kind of overrated. His success against Flash years ago made him peak into S-class in everyone's mind. Now, Effort is by no means a bad player in my mind. To the contrary, I think his early and mid game is one of the best there has ever been for zerg. He has fantastic micro in small-scale scenarios, his macro and build-up is impeccable and he has a great sense of where and when to strike. That being said, he wins almost all of his games in mid-game or clever timings according to scouting or getting so far ahead in the early/mid game that he can't really lose the late game. As soon as an opponent gets into late game on even footing, Effort begins to struggle. His micro in large scale battles is not great. His decision making on a map with half a dozen expansions taken by each player is not that great, either. So yeah, what you observed is nothing new imho. It's just a typical Effort in the late game + Shuttle being extremely solid with his army and decision making + Transistor being good for a map split in PvZ, which favours protoss. I don't think he "threw" the game intentionally. It's just seems weird because you won't see this side of Effort very often.

As soon as an opponent gets into late game on even footing, Effort begins to struggle. His micro in large scale battles is not great. His decision making on a map with half a dozen expansions taken by each player is not that great, either.

On April 17 2018 00:32 duke91 wrote:
All zergs looked extremely poor tbh. Shuttle played decently, but not extraordinarily well as Tastosis said

On April 19 2018 23:38 BisuDagger wrote:
I'm still pumped up from the Larva vs Shuttle game. That was pure beauty!