EPT[ASL5] Ro16 Group C - Page 12
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SuperCyan
Philippines67 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On April 16 2018 04:23 _Animus_ wrote: Well, i guess thats how good the games can be in Ro16 if you just leave 2 weeks for players to prepare, as i dont have any other logical explanation of this. Group A and B was played right after the group selection and we couldnt see the full potential of the players, so Afreeca please give us quality over quantity, leave more days between different stages off tour, or just make it ro16 osl format where time preparation is the same for every player. Im super excited for tomorrows group. This is amplified by the fact that these are new maps. It's not like giving players 2 more weeks to play Fighting Spirit or Circuit Breaker with thousands of games already played. Every game counts, especially for Third World. But I'm fine with the current format, to be honest. Shuttle's play today was absolutely amazing. Great micro and macro and some really cool adjustments to playstyle, given the weird maps. Transistor is absolutely getting on my nerves, but is producing entertaining games nonetheless. That is a sick map, a constant feeling of insecurity - and that's watching from the observer's point of view, I can't even begin to imagine what it would be to play the map. The late third by shuttle was a great decision and one that really paid off. Even when Effort had the best position, he never lost control of the game and never lost presence on the map. And yeah, the DT dodges without detection were eye-candy. And yeah, I'm pretty bummed about JD. I guess it was only logical, but I certainly wouldn't mind to have him play some more top level games before retirement. And I hate any and all zerg's guts, but it's still JD, man. Best of luck and thanks for all the wonderful memories. EDIT: about effort's suspicious play - man, you shouldn't have brought that up, especially without any evidence besides him making some supoptimal decisions - which is not much evidence at all. Yes, the gazillion failed attacks at the, what's that, 4-5-ish o'clock base weren't completely justified, but it's a base with a robo and lots of cannons - a good staging area for shuttles flying into both of his bottom right expansions. And guess what, they did fly. Hindsight is everything. But bringing such filthy stuff up right in the middle of the highest level SC:R tournament we have, with the top player base thin as it is... a warning is due. It's more plausible that effort intentionally brought the game to the 40 minute mark, for example - and it's a ridiculous proposition - than him losing on purpose. Please, don't do such stuff again. | ||
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DarthSidious_BR
8 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10550 Posts
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zerglingling
131 Posts
This really reminded me of a match in the last ASL, between the very same guys in the very same round, when Larva held off a full ling attack with a skeleton crew of some lings, some drones and a sunken, while the rest of his lings were hidden away and went for the kill in the meantime. If you go for something like that, you'd better be good at killing more with less. Maybe he's still not confident in his muta game after losing the last semifinals due to one air fight gone bad, he could be trying to deliberately end or at least derail his ZvZs with lings. So far it's working out, and if it ain't broke, there's no need to fix it. Shame he's been slacking, you could see Shuttle grinding PvZ on Third World and practicing the very things he was showing off today, murdering countless drones in the exact bases he would drop today, gleefully cackling as his zerg opponent lost his 10 to reavers yet again. Larva in the meantime was busy offracing as Terran, losing ladder matches, and if he practiced anything, it was ZvZ. Can't blame him, it's just one toss in a group and he hasn't been doing that bad against toss, what's the worst that could happen? It's still a wonder he did as well as he did, and he did great. Shuttle had to work overtime for that one until the very end. An earlier hive, one less successful reaver drop, or a failure to hold that almost-there hydra bust and things could've gone the other way real fast. Crummy round for JD but as long as Larva keeps his game up, he's most welcome to steal the Dong's spot in the swarm. He more than just advanced a round here, he had the balls to challenge the favorite, and the skill to beat him fair and square, while giving us all an amazing show. Getting out of the round after that was a formality. He still has one more nemesis to beat before he can crown himself the Overmind proper. And JD? I hope he learns from this and comes back prepared, if he still has time. The way he lost his second game was just stupid. Did Effort throw vs Shuttle? No, he made decent calls right up until he decided to doom drop a dead, mined out base. It is the easiest to drop, but that's also why you don't build anything valuable there. Maybe he should've kept dropping places after he got away with it once, sure sounds better than throwing lings single file at another dead base with one reaver cleaning it all up. But what do I know, I'm just some chobo who never played a single game on that map. What I do know is that hopefully nobody would be dumb enough to fix matches less than a month after someone else got caught, so let's not go there. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
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SuperCyan
Philippines67 Posts
On April 16 2018 07:53 RogerChillingworth wrote: Shuttle played brilliantly. Interesting that Artosis did not consider him a tip-top level Protoss before today. I recall very clearly that before the matches started, Artosis said that Shuttle is losing even if the games hasn’t started yet, somewhere along those lines. clearly Shuttle was thr least favored to advance but he played Bisu-esque. very deserving win  | ||
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Terrorbladder
2750 Posts
On April 16 2018 01:29 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: wuht?i saw it coming from effort,the guy is playing team games 12 hours/day,looks like Flash is really affecting the competition. | ||
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orvinreyes
577 Posts
And Shuttle oh my... just pristine play. Aggression, endurance, and those mechanics. Reminding us all that he was the first ever ASL champ! Eyewater FTW. | ||
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Miragee
8700 Posts
I'm very impressed by Shuttle. His game plans and adaptions were pretty damn solid and his late game management was monstrous. That was some great display in both games, especially on zerg-favoured maps in the match-up. To be fair I think Transistor only favours zerg in the early to mid game. The late game plays more similar to Bluestorm because there aren't a lot of attack patterns and protoss can split the map rather well. Still pretty good play against Effort, he played that down like a boss. His performance vs Larva on Third World was even more impressive though. Gave me nerd-chills. The last game was pretty much a build order win. I think Larva got a bit too greedy and squeezed in a few more drones. Pretty unnecessary. But yeah, after he held that, the game was over because Effort committed too many zerglings instead of teching as fast as possible. On April 15 2018 22:55 oxKnu wrote: Then you're wrong. For a lot of that game any Zerg should've felt great about his position on the map and in the game. It's just that Effort didn't trade well any of the exchanges and didn't adapt to any of the losses either. Which happened in his last game as well. That's his downfall in the end, 500apm but not very clever about it. Just to address this: I have never been a fan of Effort and think he is kind of overrated. His success against Flash years ago made him peak into S-class in everyone's mind. Now, Effort is by no means a bad player in my mind. To the contrary, I think his early and mid game is one of the best there has ever been for zerg. He has fantastic micro in small-scale scenarios, his macro and build-up is impeccable and he has a great sense of where and when to strike. That being said, he wins almost all of his games in mid-game or clever timings according to scouting or getting so far ahead in the early/mid game that he can't really lose the late game. As soon as an opponent gets into late game on even footing, Effort begins to struggle. His micro in large scale battles is not great. His decision making on a map with half a dozen expansions taken by each player is not that great, either. So yeah, what you observed is nothing new imho. It's just a typical Effort in the late game + Shuttle being extremely solid with his army and decision making + Transistor being good for a map split in PvZ, which favours protoss. I don't think he "threw" the game intentionally. It's just seems weird because you won't see this side of Effort very often. | ||
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reincremate
China2216 Posts
lol just kidding -- what an amazing set of games! When did Shuttle become both Bisu and Jangbi? You'd think after so many storms you'd be desensitized but that relentless harassment against Effort never got old! Those two PvZs were absolutely beautiful. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On April 16 2018 14:15 Miragee wrote: 3 really great games. That first ZvZ was actually quite tense and Jaedong almost managed to crawl back in. If he didn't lose the Muta he could have edged out a win. Too bad. His second game against effort was pretty bad. I thought he would go for a ling all-in and just break Effort's main. Instead he miss-microed it very badly and even without that Effort somehow had way more lings... I'm very impressed by Shuttle. His game plans and adaptions were pretty damn solid and his late game management was monstrous. That was some great display in both games, especially on zerg-favoured maps in the match-up. To be fair I think Transistor only favours zerg in the early to mid game. The late game plays more similar to Bluestorm because there aren't a lot of attack patterns and protoss can split the map rather well. Still pretty good play against Effort, he played that down like a boss. His performance vs Larva on Third World was even more impressive though. Gave me nerd-chills. The last game was pretty much a build order win. I think Larva got a bit too greedy and squeezed in a few more drones. Pretty unnecessary. But yeah, after he held that, the game was over because Effort committed too many zerglings instead of teching as fast as possible. Just to address this: I have never been a fan of Effort and think he is kind of overrated. His success against Flash years ago made him peak into S-class in everyone's mind. Now, Effort is by no means a bad player in my mind. To the contrary, I think his early and mid game is one of the best there has ever been for zerg. He has fantastic micro in small-scale scenarios, his macro and build-up is impeccable and he has a great sense of where and when to strike. That being said, he wins almost all of his games in mid-game or clever timings according to scouting or getting so far ahead in the early/mid game that he can't really lose the late game. As soon as an opponent gets into late game on even footing, Effort begins to struggle. His micro in large scale battles is not great. His decision making on a map with half a dozen expansions taken by each player is not that great, either. So yeah, what you observed is nothing new imho. It's just a typical Effort in the late game + Shuttle being extremely solid with his army and decision making + Transistor being good for a map split in PvZ, which favours protoss. I don't think he "threw" the game intentionally. It's just seems weird because you won't see this side of Effort very often. Perhaps it has something to do with how orthodox late-game players such as Shuttle and Larva tend to play right into Flash's hands, who has the fastest working Brood War algorithm in all known universe, and is currently the man to beat. Players with shit late-games, but with abilities to warp the early-game either with the micro-management, multi-tasking, or unorthodox timings, such as Mini, or EffOrt, stylistically tend to fare relatively well versus Flash, regardless of their general ability against the rest of the field, in my opinion. It is just the way things are. I remember when Korean people used to give ZergMaN a little more attention than they usually did, because they were sick of seeing sAviOr winning everything and thought ZergMaN's awesome zerg-versus-zerg abilities would do the trick in bringing sAviOr down. People like to theorycraft how the clear number one player of the scene could be taken down. With that being said, Shuttle's late-game abilities against the zerg race is second to none. I believe even Bisu said that every protoss has much to learn from how Shuttle deals with the zerg race in split-map situations. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Congrats to Shuttle and Larva, both played extremely well and gave us some fantastic BW! | ||
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RxMidnight
United States251 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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labbe
Sweden1456 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
As soon as an opponent gets into late game on even footing, Effort begins to struggle. His micro in large scale battles is not great. His decision making on a map with half a dozen expansions taken by each player is not that great, either. 100% agree. There have been many instances of his late-game ZvP failing him for those reasons, but I have to say that from the casual viewer's point of view, they've all been very entertaining. And I still insist that while he traded really unfavorably for the 4 o'clock, bleeding tons of units for that expansion, it was for a solid reason. Yes, in hindsight (and watching both players) it seems like a bad decision, but that was a pretty crucial location not just resourse-wise - it was mostly depleted by the time he killed it - but as an important outpost for Shuttle. | ||
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EvanC
Canada130 Posts
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LocoBolon
Argentina246 Posts
On April 17 2018 00:32 duke91 wrote: All zergs looked extremely poor tbh. Shuttle played decently, but not extraordinarily well as Tastosis said I'm not sure I agree with that statement, for me that game on Third World vs Larva was kind of mindbblowing, specially the overall aproach Shuttle did to play there. He just realized theres no need to make the gates on the lower part of the map, there is only one possible "3rd", that can be secured with canons + reaver, so why macro there? to break zerg natural/main as the only possible option? That is like playing a boxing match where you can only throw a KO punch with your right to your opponents face and nothing else. Why not macro on the other part of the map where there are seven possible expos to take/attack? From that starting point the use of a 3rd Stargate and the placing of the macro gates on the island part of the map completely nullified all that zergs abuse vs protoss on that map. I kind of had an epiphany watching the game, I'm not focusing so much on the micro and execution side. Strategically speaking, the brain process behind that game, adapting to the new and kind of disvantageus scenario and catching the opponent completely out of guard, was Awesome. Not good, AWESOME game!!! | ||
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