On May 24 2017 19:50 d(O.o)a wrote: There's a lot more to commentating than just saying/knowing what's going on, it's about being entertaining too and they have that down pat
I think they get a bit to much hate, they are focused on catering to new viewers and people who only watched SC2.
They also do bring up some really nice little details and insights at times, like the wraith micro that Flash did over the turret to make it harder to click target it for Last. They have plenty of stuff like that and sometimes they bring some insight to the game from the perspective of people who have played it at a high level.
But overall I am not personally a fan, I find most of their humor to be more obnoxious than entertaining and I am so used to watching with commentators that call out build orders I often don't pay attention to it closely enough myself, I have started to do it now though and it is kinda frustrating to listen to them speculate about "was it pool first or overlord first?" when it was obvious which one it was for example.
But, I do like their chemistry and they have a nice energy so I don't think they deserve the hate they get, I understand that I am not their target audience and thats fine.
I should start watching the flasftw stream though but youtube works much better for me, afreeca stutters when I watch it on my tv.
On May 24 2017 01:09 L1ghtning wrote: It's weird to hear Last being called a robot when he's facing Flash. Calling Flash a robot/cyborg was a running joke back in the day. His eye twitching. His flawless execution. He was even called the Terminator. But maybe this was only a western thing.
And why do Tastosis insist that Last is much younger than Flash, when he's like 4 months younger only?
I feel like a old BW fan for the first time ever.
If you want an English stream please try FlashFTW and EsportsJohn next time. Tastosis hasn't kept up with BW at all and neither Tasteless or Artosis cares to do his homework.
Where can we find this stream? Twitch?
Afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2 definitely come check us out!
Is there any way those vods can be uploaded to youtube? Afreeca vods lag and we are beyond the point where watching broodwar at 3am is a thing we can do regularly.
Flash's preparation was beautiful. Seeing him take out last faster than last took him out in season 1 was wonderful.
Unfortunately, our hands are tied there. AfreecaTV only uploads the ENG1 VoDs to YouTube, and we're legally restricted from uploading it ourselves. Maybe we can talk with the admins about it, though.
On May 24 2017 01:09 L1ghtning wrote: It's weird to hear Last being called a robot when he's facing Flash. Calling Flash a robot/cyborg was a running joke back in the day. His eye twitching. His flawless execution. He was even called the Terminator. But maybe this was only a western thing.
And why do Tastosis insist that Last is much younger than Flash, when he's like 4 months younger only?
I feel like a old BW fan for the first time ever.
I think the idea with the Alphago nickname isn't just the robotic aspect of it. Alphago is a learning algorithm. It improves as it plays itself over and over and has become just straight up better than any human at all stages of the game. It's a good nickname since Flash is God and Alphago hasn't reached diety status yet, but can beat all normal humans.
Im pretty sure the ppl who called Last by the nickname never even heard of a learning algorithm so I think the name was given just for the robotic aspect.
Alphago was pretty huge in Korea, I'd be surprised if they didn't know about the learning.
On May 24 2017 07:21 Entertaining wrote: I just want to say that this was some of the most bias, garbage commentating I've ever heard and would kill for different commentators. If someone else wants to cast these games, you've got me as a viewer. Hell, I'm sure you'd have a lot of viewers.
[Flash and Last trade evenly]
> Wow, what an amazing play by Flash! How can Last ever recover!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!
Shoot me.
who the fuck complains of tastosis
Last time we tried to watch tastosis, they weren't even announcing the build orders. If we are going to listen to english commentary, we expect to be able to figure out who came ahead in the opening while mostly only listening to the audio. If we wanted to have to watch the video to figure out how many hatcheries went down before the pool, we are better off watching the korean commentators.
It's not a podcast. They are probably operating under the assumption that people are going to actually watch the game they are casting
you do realize theres something called a play-by-play caster right? it helps the audience focus on the specific images they are seeing on their screens. its like when basketball casters pull up a slowmo and literally, its in slowmo, and they're still explaining the play and action play-by-play.
If you listen to a radio play-by-play guy vs a tv play-by-play guy it's a huge difference. The tv guy doesn't tell you every detail like the radio guy because, again, he assumes you have functional eyes.
Although it's a fair point that tastosis don't follow the traditional mold of a play by play guy with a color guy that has been working for years. Instead it's just the two of them shouting their thoughts over the course of the game.
Thank you for the video with subs! Btv nothing like the live translation, they really need to find someone that can actually do this live, instead of mimicing a translation!
I don't mind tastosis actually. They're pretty entertaining to listen to. They get caught napping sometimes, not catching what B.O. is happening, but that's not a big deal imo since you can easily see for yourself what's actually going on... and other casters fall into that trap too (talking about something else instead of watching the early game). Interesting that this debate comes up in this match, coz I think Tastosis actually made more correct calls this series than FlashFTW/John (i.e. the vulture drop at the end).
They've improved too or at least have refrained from talking over and over non-stop about how great a player is. I get they needed to do that for a.) newbies to the BW scene and b.) to build hype/interest.
Obv the gold standard would be the korean casters. Or if I could listen to progamers commentate a live match, that'd be awesome. Now if only I knew korean...
On May 25 2017 05:48 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: I don't mind tastosis actually. They're pretty entertaining to listen to. They get caught napping sometimes, not catching what B.O. is happening, but that's not a big deal imo since you can easily see for yourself what's actually going on... and other casters fall into that trap too (talking about something else instead of watching the early game). Interesting that this debate comes up in this match, coz I think Tastosis actually made more correct calls this series than FlashFTW/John (i.e. the vulture drop at the end).
They've improved too or at least have refrained from talking over and over non-stop about how great a player is. I get they needed to do that for a.) newbies to the BW scene and b.) to build hype/interest.
Obv the gold standard would be the korean casters. Or if I could listen to progamers commentate a live match, that'd be awesome. Now if only I knew korean...
I CALLED THE VULTURE DROP, FLASHFTW IS STOOPID
But in all seriousness, Tastetosis are the best. There's no reason not to emulate them; their style is time-tested and solid, and both of them are far and above most people when it comes to game knowledge and elocution. Lately they've been on a noob-friendly kick where they try to explain ultra basic concepts or compare things to other games which has kind of made them look deceivingly dumber than they actually are, but there are a few moments when they are 100% on point (like Artosis calling the double ups vulture drop in G3).
It would be awesome if we had a cast like the Koreans, but from what I understand, it's very strange if you try to put that style into English because it just sounds like a bunch of bros yelling over each other about the game. Another really obvious difference is how English casts have historically been dominated by duo casts while Korean has a tri-cast setup. I'm pretty sure LoL has adopted the tri-cast for live events, but other than that, it's hard to tell how well it work in an RTS.
(P.S. Thanks for all of the support from everyone who watches the cast with FlashFTW and me. I'm obviously very new at this, but I'm listening to feedback and trying to improve.)
On May 24 2017 07:21 Entertaining wrote: I just want to say that this was some of the most bias, garbage commentating I've ever heard and would kill for different commentators. If someone else wants to cast these games, you've got me as a viewer. Hell, I'm sure you'd have a lot of viewers.
[Flash and Last trade evenly]
> Wow, what an amazing play by Flash! How can Last ever recover!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!
Shoot me.
who the fuck complains of tastosis
Last time we tried to watch tastosis, they weren't even announcing the build orders. If we are going to listen to english commentary, we expect to be able to figure out who came ahead in the opening while mostly only listening to the audio. If we wanted to have to watch the video to figure out how many hatcheries went down before the pool, we are better off watching the korean commentators.
It's not a podcast. They are probably operating under the assumption that people are going to actually watch the game they are casting
you do realize theres something called a play-by-play caster right? it helps the audience focus on the specific images they are seeing on their screens. its like when basketball casters pull up a slowmo and literally, its in slowmo, and they're still explaining the play and action play-by-play.
If you listen to a radio play-by-play guy vs a tv play-by-play guy it's a huge difference. The tv guy doesn't tell you every detail like the radio guy because, again, he assumes you have functional eyes.
Obviously I'm not the most qualified person to talk about this, but I believe that play-by-play should generally try to describe the scene well enough so that someone who is alt-tabbed or listening to the game without watching can understand what's going on. Obviously you don't need to do it quite to the extent that a radio broadcaster would, but I think it's better to say too much than too little on what's happening.
On May 25 2017 05:48 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: I don't mind tastosis actually. They're pretty entertaining to listen to. They get caught napping sometimes, not catching what B.O. is happening, but that's not a big deal imo since you can easily see for yourself what's actually going on... and other casters fall into that trap too (talking about something else instead of watching the early game). Interesting that this debate comes up in this match, coz I think Tastosis actually made more correct calls this series than FlashFTW/John (i.e. the vulture drop at the end).
They've improved too or at least have refrained from talking over and over non-stop about how great a player is. I get they needed to do that for a.) newbies to the BW scene and b.) to build hype/interest.
Obv the gold standard would be the korean casters. Or if I could listen to progamers commentate a live match, that'd be awesome. Now if only I knew korean...
I CALLED THE VULTURE DROP, FLASHFTW IS STOOPID
But in all seriousness, Tastetosis are the best. There's no reason not to emulate them; their style is time-tested and solid, and both of them are far and above most people when it comes to game knowledge and elocution. Lately they've been on a noob-friendly kick where they try to explain ultra basic concepts or compare things to other games which has kind of made them look deceivingly dumber than they actually are, but there are a few moments when they are 100% on point (like Artosis calling the double ups vulture drop in G3).
It would be awesome if we had a cast like the Koreans, but from what I understand, it's very strange if you try to put that style into English because it just sounds like a bunch of bros yelling over each other about the game. Another really obvious difference is how English casts have historically been dominated by duo casts while Korean has a tri-cast setup. I'm pretty sure LoL has adopted the tri-cast for live events, but other than that, it's hard to tell how well it work in an RTS.
(P.S. Thanks for all of the support from everyone who watches the cast with FlashFTW and me. I'm obviously very new at this, but I'm listening to feedback and trying to improve.)
On May 24 2017 07:21 Entertaining wrote: I just want to say that this was some of the most bias, garbage commentating I've ever heard and would kill for different commentators. If someone else wants to cast these games, you've got me as a viewer. Hell, I'm sure you'd have a lot of viewers.
[Flash and Last trade evenly]
> Wow, what an amazing play by Flash! How can Last ever recover!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!
Shoot me.
who the fuck complains of tastosis
Last time we tried to watch tastosis, they weren't even announcing the build orders. If we are going to listen to english commentary, we expect to be able to figure out who came ahead in the opening while mostly only listening to the audio. If we wanted to have to watch the video to figure out how many hatcheries went down before the pool, we are better off watching the korean commentators.
It's not a podcast. They are probably operating under the assumption that people are going to actually watch the game they are casting
you do realize theres something called a play-by-play caster right? it helps the audience focus on the specific images they are seeing on their screens. its like when basketball casters pull up a slowmo and literally, its in slowmo, and they're still explaining the play and action play-by-play.
If you listen to a radio play-by-play guy vs a tv play-by-play guy it's a huge difference. The tv guy doesn't tell you every detail like the radio guy because, again, he assumes you have functional eyes.
Obviously I'm not the most qualified person to talk about this, but I believe that play-by-play should generally try to describe the scene well enough so that someone who is alt-tabbed or listening to the game without watching can understand what's going on. Obviously you don't need to do it quite to the extent that a radio broadcaster would, but I think it's better to say too much than too little on what's happening.
The thing is I don't think that works in starcraft, if you look at sports there's one focal point - the ball. The entire match resolves around that ball and where it goes, what they're doing to protect it etc. That's not the case in starcraft in that you'd have to call out so many things from all around the map and in real time that's just not possible. We're also limited by what the camera can see because there isn't just one focal point, the best observer in the world can only show so much of what's going on.
On May 23 2017 20:36 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Flash never gets enough credit for his preparation, I remember in pro league he would go standard 90% of his games but then in the individual leagues when it got down to series, he would always do some unique builds uve never seen from him, especially against Jaedong.
Probably because he seems to be so inconsistent with his preparation.
In how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14cc which was read and expected by his opponents?
In ASL1 he always kept building a forward barracks in the league games as well as on his stream and Last was prepared for it and shut it down and got an easy and big advantage.
In ASL2 and here in ASL3 he seemed to have learned his lesson from ASL1 and he is looking like a fucking mind reader in some games.
These games where really good and it did feel a little bit lackluster that they were so one-sided and fast but Last didn't make any simple major mistakes, he was just outsmarted, outplayed and outflashed.
It can be easy to overlook how well prepared Flash is at times because at other times he isn't I guess.
You've been replied to already I believe but, Flash was very well known for his preparation. The series against GGPlay where he went 14CC every game and got crushed, AND the series against ForGG where he went 14CC every game and gor crushed, were perhaps exceptions, but that was extremely early in his career. But anyone who knows a reasonable amount about professional starcraft has known that Flash was the very best when it came to the mental aspect and preparation of the game, especially keeping in mind that he had a huge target on his back when he was in his prime. (He faced tons of opponents doing cheese builds or taking economic risks specifically tailored to beat him, and they almost never worked.)
On May 25 2017 05:48 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: I don't mind tastosis actually. They're pretty entertaining to listen to. They get caught napping sometimes, not catching what B.O. is happening, but that's not a big deal imo since you can easily see for yourself what's actually going on... and other casters fall into that trap too (talking about something else instead of watching the early game). Interesting that this debate comes up in this match, coz I think Tastosis actually made more correct calls this series than FlashFTW/John (i.e. the vulture drop at the end).
They've improved too or at least have refrained from talking over and over non-stop about how great a player is. I get they needed to do that for a.) newbies to the BW scene and b.) to build hype/interest.
Obv the gold standard would be the korean casters. Or if I could listen to progamers commentate a live match, that'd be awesome. Now if only I knew korean...
Tfw given one example where i miss a call and get degraded cause of it
On May 24 2017 01:09 L1ghtning wrote: It's weird to hear Last being called a robot when he's facing Flash. Calling Flash a robot/cyborg was a running joke back in the day. His eye twitching. His flawless execution. He was even called the Terminator. But maybe this was only a western thing.
And why do Tastosis insist that Last is much younger than Flash, when he's like 4 months younger only?
I feel like a old BW fan for the first time ever.
I think the idea with the Alphago nickname isn't just the robotic aspect of it. Alphago is a learning algorithm. It improves as it plays itself over and over and has become just straight up better than any human at all stages of the game. It's a good nickname since Flash is God and Alphago hasn't reached diety status yet, but can beat all normal humans.
Im pretty sure the ppl who called Last by the nickname never even heard of a learning algorithm so I think the name was given just for the robotic aspect.
Alphago was pretty huge in Korea, I'd be surprised if they didn't know about the learning.
Yes it was huge in Korea and pretty much anyone at least familiar with machine learning would know that AlphaGo "learns" but to the general public AlphaGo is a program that was able to beat Lee Sedol. Even on the news when they say that AlphaGo is able to learn I really don't think the majority of ppl actually understood what that meant. Though actually thinking about it since a lot of korean starcraft fans do tend to have a science/engineering background I guess they would have more than the general public an idea of how AlphaGo works. I still don't think that the nickname was given to Last to portray him as some kind of learning "robot".
Just to sum up, I don't think the majority of Koreans really know that AlphaGo is able to learn. Or at least even if they know it they don't associate AlphaGo as the "learning" program that beat Lee Sedol but just as the program that won. This is why I think the name was given to Last to highlight his perfect, almost robotic play and not that hes a robot that learns.
Talking about nonsense is not entertain. Nothing wrong with being quiet, yet no one do that pretty much. If you as a commentator feel youy need to talk for the sake of it you are doing your job bad.
EPT
