On May 24 2017 01:09 L1ghtning wrote: It's weird to hear Last being called a robot when he's facing Flash. Calling Flash a robot/cyborg was a running joke back in the day. His eye twitching. His flawless execution. He was even called the Terminator. But maybe this was only a western thing.
And why do Tastosis insist that Last is much younger than Flash, when he's like 4 months younger only?
I feel like a old BW fan for the first time ever.
If you want an English stream please try FlashFTW and EsportsJohn next time. Tastosis hasn't kept up with BW at all and neither Tasteless or Artosis cares to do his homework.
On May 23 2017 20:36 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Flash never gets enough credit for his preparation, I remember in pro league he would go standard 90% of his games but then in the individual leagues when it got down to series, he would always do some unique builds uve never seen from him, especially against Jaedong.
Probably because he seems to be so inconsistent with his preparation.
In how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14cc which was read and expected by his opponents?
In ASL1 he always kept building a forward barracks in the league games as well as on his stream and Last was prepared for it and shut it down and got an easy and big advantage.
In ASL2 and here in ASL3 he seemed to have learned his lesson from ASL1 and he is looking like a fucking mind reader in some games.
These games where really good and it did feel a little bit lackluster that they were so one-sided and fast but Last didn't make any simple major mistakes, he was just outsmarted, outplayed and outflashed.
It can be easy to overlook how well prepared Flash is at times because at other times he isn't I guess.
Uhh, how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14CC? Literally one time against ForGG in 2008? Weirdest narrative bias.
I don't fault them too much, because both players are kind of unprecedented. No one has ever been this good for this long the way Flash has, because he achieved an incredible level of skill extremely early and has somehow maintained it for basically a decade at this point. Similarly no one in the KeSPA era that I can remember peaked as late as Last has, so it's natural to perceive him as younger than he actually is. The sort of intermission represented by SC2 combined with SC pros no longer being attached to a team house has really shifted the landscape.
On May 24 2017 01:09 L1ghtning wrote: It's weird to hear Last being called a robot when he's facing Flash. Calling Flash a robot/cyborg was a running joke back in the day. His eye twitching. His flawless execution. He was even called the Terminator. But maybe this was only a western thing.
And why do Tastosis insist that Last is much younger than Flash, when he's like 4 months younger only?
I feel like a old BW fan for the first time ever.
If you want an English stream please try FlashFTW and EsportsJohn next time. Tastosis hasn't kept up with BW at all and neither Tasteless or Artosis cares to do his homework.
On May 23 2017 20:36 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Flash never gets enough credit for his preparation, I remember in pro league he would go standard 90% of his games but then in the individual leagues when it got down to series, he would always do some unique builds uve never seen from him, especially against Jaedong.
Probably because he seems to be so inconsistent with his preparation.
In how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14cc which was read and expected by his opponents?
In ASL1 he always kept building a forward barracks in the league games as well as on his stream and Last was prepared for it and shut it down and got an easy and big advantage.
In ASL2 and here in ASL3 he seemed to have learned his lesson from ASL1 and he is looking like a fucking mind reader in some games.
These games where really good and it did feel a little bit lackluster that they were so one-sided and fast but Last didn't make any simple major mistakes, he was just outsmarted, outplayed and outflashed.
It can be easy to overlook how well prepared Flash is at times because at other times he isn't I guess.
Uhh, how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14CC? Literally one time against ForGG in 2008? Weirdest narrative bias.
I think this idea started when Flash got eliminated by GGPlay in his debut OSL (semi finals) where he lost both games 1 and 5 with 14cc vs 9 pool. Also around that time was when he cheesed Bisu out of OSL and a lot of fans were ripping on him for not being able to play late game and being a "flash in the pan" (oh how wrong they were on both counts...) He doesn't 14cc that often and I'm sure when he does he has good reason to lol, he is the best ever for a reason.
On May 23 2017 20:36 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Flash never gets enough credit for his preparation, I remember in pro league he would go standard 90% of his games but then in the individual leagues when it got down to series, he would always do some unique builds uve never seen from him, especially against Jaedong.
Probably because he seems to be so inconsistent with his preparation.
In how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14cc which was read and expected by his opponents?
In ASL1 he always kept building a forward barracks in the league games as well as on his stream and Last was prepared for it and shut it down and got an easy and big advantage.
In ASL2 and here in ASL3 he seemed to have learned his lesson from ASL1 and he is looking like a fucking mind reader in some games.
These games where really good and it did feel a little bit lackluster that they were so one-sided and fast but Last didn't make any simple major mistakes, he was just outsmarted, outplayed and outflashed.
It can be easy to overlook how well prepared Flash is at times because at other times he isn't I guess.
Uhh, how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14CC? Literally one time against ForGG in 2008? Weirdest narrative bias.
I think this idea started when Flash got eliminated by GGPlay in his debut OSL (semi finals) where he lost both games 1 and 5 with 14cc vs 9 pool. Also around that time was when he cheesed Bisu out of OSL and a lot of fans were ripping on him for not being able to play late game and being a "flash in the pan" (oh how wrong they were on both counts...) He doesn't 14cc that often and I'm sure when he does he has good reason to lol, he is the best ever for a reason.
Right after his gom invite win and his first OSL win against stork, flash went through a period where he was 14 ccing in every single matchup probably like 80% of the time, for a couple months. It was mostly a PL thing, but IIRC he did lose a series against jaedong that was basically just 9pool crushing 14cc again and again. Flash went through a bit of a slump in the later half of 08, overworked.
On May 23 2017 20:36 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Flash never gets enough credit for his preparation, I remember in pro league he would go standard 90% of his games but then in the individual leagues when it got down to series, he would always do some unique builds uve never seen from him, especially against Jaedong.
Probably because he seems to be so inconsistent with his preparation.
In how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14cc which was read and expected by his opponents?
In ASL1 he always kept building a forward barracks in the league games as well as on his stream and Last was prepared for it and shut it down and got an easy and big advantage.
In ASL2 and here in ASL3 he seemed to have learned his lesson from ASL1 and he is looking like a fucking mind reader in some games.
These games where really good and it did feel a little bit lackluster that they were so one-sided and fast but Last didn't make any simple major mistakes, he was just outsmarted, outplayed and outflashed.
It can be easy to overlook how well prepared Flash is at times because at other times he isn't I guess.
Uhh, how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14CC? Literally one time against ForGG in 2008? Weirdest narrative bias.
I think this idea started when Flash got eliminated by GGPlay in his debut OSL (semi finals) where he lost both games 1 and 5 with 14cc vs 9 pool. Also around that time was when he cheesed Bisu out of OSL and a lot of fans were ripping on him for not being able to play late game and being a "flash in the pan" (oh how wrong they were on both counts...) He doesn't 14cc that often and I'm sure when he does he has good reason to lol, he is the best ever for a reason.
Right after his gom invite win and his first OSL win against stork, flash went through a period where he was 14 ccing in every single matchup probably like 80% of the time, for a couple months. It was mostly a PL thing, but IIRC he did lose a series against jaedong that was basically just 9pool crushing 14cc again and again. Flash went through a bit of a slump in the later half of 08, overworked.
I vaguely remember how he seemed to open with 14cc all the time. The most annoying thing was that usually he would just get away with it, often with his excellent scv micro.
Also how the hell do you remember this stuff so well after 10 years?
On May 23 2017 20:36 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Flash never gets enough credit for his preparation, I remember in pro league he would go standard 90% of his games but then in the individual leagues when it got down to series, he would always do some unique builds uve never seen from him, especially against Jaedong.
Probably because he seems to be so inconsistent with his preparation.
In how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14cc which was read and expected by his opponents?
In ASL1 he always kept building a forward barracks in the league games as well as on his stream and Last was prepared for it and shut it down and got an easy and big advantage.
In ASL2 and here in ASL3 he seemed to have learned his lesson from ASL1 and he is looking like a fucking mind reader in some games.
These games where really good and it did feel a little bit lackluster that they were so one-sided and fast but Last didn't make any simple major mistakes, he was just outsmarted, outplayed and outflashed.
It can be easy to overlook how well prepared Flash is at times because at other times he isn't I guess.
Uhh, how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14CC? Literally one time against ForGG in 2008? Weirdest narrative bias.
I think this idea started when Flash got eliminated by GGPlay in his debut OSL (semi finals) where he lost both games 1 and 5 with 14cc vs 9 pool. Also around that time was when he cheesed Bisu out of OSL and a lot of fans were ripping on him for not being able to play late game and being a "flash in the pan" (oh how wrong they were on both counts...) He doesn't 14cc that often and I'm sure when he does he has good reason to lol, he is the best ever for a reason.
Right after his gom invite win and his first OSL win against stork, flash went through a period where he was 14 ccing in every single matchup probably like 80% of the time, for a couple months. It was mostly a PL thing, but IIRC he did lose a series against jaedong that was basically just 9pool crushing 14cc again and again. Flash went through a bit of a slump in the later half of 08, overworked.
I remember him going through a slump late 08 and early 09 before he went on went god mode but I don't remember it being specifically tied to using 14cc a lot. I know you are probably exaggerating with 80% figure but there is no way you can open cc first that much without getting punished hard by any race (over a long enough period of time that people notice the trend obviously.)
That is only tvz and there isn't a record of which time the games were played but 14cc in tvp wasn't a common thing ever
From what I remember he did refine his cc first openers later on, especially on 2 player maps to send an scv to his opponent (usually zergs) to make sure he's safe from early aggression before expanding. I don't remember jaedong beating him with 9p vs 14cc but it's been a while lol, there was the 3-0 finals where flash opened cc first every game and won
On May 23 2017 20:36 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Flash never gets enough credit for his preparation, I remember in pro league he would go standard 90% of his games but then in the individual leagues when it got down to series, he would always do some unique builds uve never seen from him, especially against Jaedong.
Probably because he seems to be so inconsistent with his preparation.
In how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14cc which was read and expected by his opponents?
In ASL1 he always kept building a forward barracks in the league games as well as on his stream and Last was prepared for it and shut it down and got an easy and big advantage.
In ASL2 and here in ASL3 he seemed to have learned his lesson from ASL1 and he is looking like a fucking mind reader in some games.
These games where really good and it did feel a little bit lackluster that they were so one-sided and fast but Last didn't make any simple major mistakes, he was just outsmarted, outplayed and outflashed.
It can be easy to overlook how well prepared Flash is at times because at other times he isn't I guess.
Uhh, how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14CC? Literally one time against ForGG in 2008? Weirdest narrative bias.
I think this idea started when Flash got eliminated by GGPlay in his debut OSL (semi finals) where he lost both games 1 and 5 with 14cc vs 9 pool. Also around that time was when he cheesed Bisu out of OSL and a lot of fans were ripping on him for not being able to play late game and being a "flash in the pan" (oh how wrong they were on both counts...) He doesn't 14cc that often and I'm sure when he does he has good reason to lol, he is the best ever for a reason.
Right after his gom invite win and his first OSL win against stork, flash went through a period where he was 14 ccing in every single matchup probably like 80% of the time, for a couple months. It was mostly a PL thing, but IIRC he did lose a series against jaedong that was basically just 9pool crushing 14cc again and again. Flash went through a bit of a slump in the later half of 08, overworked.
I remember those games as well - it was in 2010 the Korean Air OSL against Effort in the finals. Effort was down 0-2 and then crushed Flash 3 times with lings :D
On May 23 2017 20:36 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Flash never gets enough credit for his preparation, I remember in pro league he would go standard 90% of his games but then in the individual leagues when it got down to series, he would always do some unique builds uve never seen from him, especially against Jaedong.
Probably because he seems to be so inconsistent with his preparation.
In how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14cc which was read and expected by his opponents?
In ASL1 he always kept building a forward barracks in the league games as well as on his stream and Last was prepared for it and shut it down and got an easy and big advantage.
In ASL2 and here in ASL3 he seemed to have learned his lesson from ASL1 and he is looking like a fucking mind reader in some games.
These games where really good and it did feel a little bit lackluster that they were so one-sided and fast but Last didn't make any simple major mistakes, he was just outsmarted, outplayed and outflashed.
It can be easy to overlook how well prepared Flash is at times because at other times he isn't I guess.
Uhh, how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14CC? Literally one time against ForGG in 2008? Weirdest narrative bias.
I think this idea started when Flash got eliminated by GGPlay in his debut OSL (semi finals) where he lost both games 1 and 5 with 14cc vs 9 pool. Also around that time was when he cheesed Bisu out of OSL and a lot of fans were ripping on him for not being able to play late game and being a "flash in the pan" (oh how wrong they were on both counts...) He doesn't 14cc that often and I'm sure when he does he has good reason to lol, he is the best ever for a reason.
Right after his gom invite win and his first OSL win against stork, flash went through a period where he was 14 ccing in every single matchup probably like 80% of the time, for a couple months. It was mostly a PL thing, but IIRC he did lose a series against jaedong that was basically just 9pool crushing 14cc again and again. Flash went through a bit of a slump in the later half of 08, overworked.
I remember him going through a slump late 08 and early 09 before he went on went god mode but I don't remember it being specifically tied to using 14cc a lot. I know you are probably exaggerating with 80% figure but there is no way you can open cc first that much without getting punished hard by any race (over a long enough period of time that people notice the trend obviously.)
That is only tvz and there isn't a record of which time the games were played but 14cc in tvp wasn't a common thing ever
From what I remember he did refine his cc first openers later on, especially on 2 player maps to send an scv to his opponent (usually zergs) to make sure he's safe from early aggression before expanding. I don't remember jaedong beating him with 9p vs 14cc but it's been a while lol, there was the 3-0 finals where flash opened cc first every game and won
Flash sort of was in god mode even in late 08, he was just playing an insane amount of games. I remember him looking constantly stressed and tired around the time im talking about. And yeah it wasnt actually 80%, but it was pretty often. His series against Jaedong in the gom classic, I think he went 14 cc three times in a row and went 0-3. If he didnt it was at least twice in a row, and this was back to back after losing in PL doing 14cc quite a few times.
On May 23 2017 20:36 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Flash never gets enough credit for his preparation, I remember in pro league he would go standard 90% of his games but then in the individual leagues when it got down to series, he would always do some unique builds uve never seen from him, especially against Jaedong.
Probably because he seems to be so inconsistent with his preparation.
In how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14cc which was read and expected by his opponents?
In ASL1 he always kept building a forward barracks in the league games as well as on his stream and Last was prepared for it and shut it down and got an easy and big advantage.
In ASL2 and here in ASL3 he seemed to have learned his lesson from ASL1 and he is looking like a fucking mind reader in some games.
These games where really good and it did feel a little bit lackluster that they were so one-sided and fast but Last didn't make any simple major mistakes, he was just outsmarted, outplayed and outflashed.
It can be easy to overlook how well prepared Flash is at times because at other times he isn't I guess.
Uhh, how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14CC? Literally one time against ForGG in 2008? Weirdest narrative bias.
I think this idea started when Flash got eliminated by GGPlay in his debut OSL (semi finals) where he lost both games 1 and 5 with 14cc vs 9 pool. Also around that time was when he cheesed Bisu out of OSL and a lot of fans were ripping on him for not being able to play late game and being a "flash in the pan" (oh how wrong they were on both counts...) He doesn't 14cc that often and I'm sure when he does he has good reason to lol, he is the best ever for a reason.
Right after his gom invite win and his first OSL win against stork, flash went through a period where he was 14 ccing in every single matchup probably like 80% of the time, for a couple months. It was mostly a PL thing, but IIRC he did lose a series against jaedong that was basically just 9pool crushing 14cc again and again. Flash went through a bit of a slump in the later half of 08, overworked.
I vaguely remember how he seemed to open with 14cc all the time. The most annoying thing was that usually he would just get away with it, often with his excellent scv micro.
Also how the hell do you remember this stuff so well after 10 years?
On May 24 2017 01:09 L1ghtning wrote: It's weird to hear Last being called a robot when he's facing Flash. Calling Flash a robot/cyborg was a running joke back in the day. His eye twitching. His flawless execution. He was even called the Terminator. But maybe this was only a western thing.
And why do Tastosis insist that Last is much younger than Flash, when he's like 4 months younger only?
I feel like a old BW fan for the first time ever.
If you want an English stream please try FlashFTW and EsportsJohn next time. Tastosis hasn't kept up with BW at all and neither Tasteless or Artosis cares to do his homework.
On May 24 2017 02:50 darktreb wrote: Uhh, how many leagues was he eliminated early because he kept going for 14CC? Literally one time against ForGG in 2008? Weirdest narrative bias.
Oh, I must be remember it wrong then. But there were other important games around that time when he went 14cc in similar fashion and lost because of it. Right?
It's so strange how they (Artosis and Tasteless) say Last is so much younger than Flash. Flash is not even a year older than Last if you check their TLPD pages. They are the same age, bros. Just sayin'
EPT
