On May 15 2017 13:17 Uldridge wrote: While his dragoon play was very nice indeed, there's some events that do top that.
Note that while he does have an observer, he's under so much pressure from actual units that this basically doesn't matter imo. It's beautiful to see these dragoons dance like that.
wow! thank you!! forgot that game!! I watched live at that time, dragoons dancing epicly indeed!!! that made the game I believe
On May 15 2017 17:11 hitthat wrote: Oh God, thanks man for correcting me. I wanted write "MACRO games" (not "MICRO games") and I just got complete brain freeze, since i even wrote "where" instead of "were".
Sorry for that blunder.
Lol, that makes a lot more sense.
But I still disagree though, not as much as I did with micro, but still.
He played very well in game 1 and his macro was good, but he was behind from the start with a failed rush and he didn't take enough bases but ssak was also shutting it down very very well and have an advantage with the superior race for drop play. So Bisu wasn't able to expand and he was on equal or less mining than ssak for most of the game.
It is a really wonky map that has some serious balance issues and people have not really figured that map out yet so I can't fault his macro for losing that game.
And the only other game he lost was just a terrible attack into a fortified terran that lost him the game in an instant. Hard to read much into that.
On May 15 2017 21:37 IntoTheStorm wrote: This was so fun to watch from game 1 till the end. I play protoss, I usually cheer for protoss players. Yet every time Bisu is on, I kind of would like him to lose. Not because I don't like him, he seems a funny and a cheerful guy that has mad skill, hands down best protoss ever imo. But it's because he's almost all the time the favorite to win the entire series and/or a tournament and I get all warm and fuzzy inside when the underdog takes the bo3 or bo5. It somehow feels fitting. Anyway, the series was amazing, I can't criticize for lack of skill or bad decision making because all those mistakes are what is making this game so thrilling to watch. I can't want for the others as well. Cheers to Bisu and I hope the other ro8 series deliver in a similar way, all the way to game 5.
The thing is, Bisu feels like the underdog to me. He has lost so many times when he was supposed to win. SSL9 is his only premier win this decade.
Game 1 so good and it looked to me like terran is OP on this map.
In game 2 luck was on bisu side, or just ssak too impatient, when he move his second scv from barracks to see if probe gonna scout him and got into range vision behind the probe, so it was clear for bisu there is something in the middle with the 2 scvs. If that didnt happen we mightve seen another 3-0 (nevermind they just showed that in the rep after game).
Man game 3 was beautiful to watch. The big mistake was sSak not microing his tanks letting them die to dragoons. Hes choking probably, because Bisu went so confident on these mines. It was like Bisu knows where every mine is placed even where he doesnt have vision in the moment of placing. I need to watch this game again. Perhaps being together on SKT for so many years and in recent Afreeca team league is why Bisu to know such crazy details?!?
On May 16 2017 06:24 _Animus_ wrote: Man game 3 was beautiful to watch. The big mistake was sSak not microing his tanks letting them die to dragoons. Hes choking probably, because Bisu went so confident on these mines. It was like Bisu knows where every mine is placed even where he doesnt have vision in the moment of placing. I need to watch this game again. Perhaps being together on SKT for so many years and in recent Afreeca team league is why Bisu to know such crazy details?!?
No, he saw where some were being planted and he stutter stepped when he was on unknown territory.
A chobo like me can do it semi-consistently if I have no distraction, but it was really impressive to see being used inside the opponent's base where units are ready to draw fire, tank shots, and affect of the goons movement with a far away base to macro
Lols, best of Bisu fans out in full force this thread!
Talking themselves into him actually playing well this series (he didn't, and would have lost to any of the top Terrans playing this way).
Saying that he actually feels kind of like an underdog (seriously? Ssak is like the 5th best Terran and this is PvT).
Freaking out about his one good game of micro (very good, but every pro can do it ... Bisu deserves credit for being so ballsy on a map that requires it but it was more the ballsiness than the micro that was impressive).
Saying things like Terran OP on Outsider.
Posting the Heartbreak Ridge video from literally 8 years ago.
Too good.
I hope Bisu makes the finals because BW is better when Bisu is good, but man, let's call it like it was. A terrible performance by him, and he escaped by the skin of his teeth against a player of lower caliber. Where's the Bisu that won 80% last month?
People going on and on about how Bisu was playing really aggresive/his macro wasn't impressive. Are you forgetting this was a teamkill? Him and sSak have played hundreds if not thousands of games with each other. They couldn't both just go Macro as they know how to counter each other.
On May 16 2017 12:23 darktreb wrote: Lols, best of Bisu fans out in full force this thread!
Talking themselves into him actually playing well this series (he didn't, and would have lost to any of the top Terrans playing this way).
Saying that he actually feels kind of like an underdog (seriously? Ssak is like the 5th best Terran and this is PvT).
Freaking out about his one good game of micro (very good, but every pro can do it ... Bisu deserves credit for being so ballsy on a map that requires it but it was more the ballsiness than the micro that was impressive).
Saying things like Terran OP on Outsider.
Posting the Heartbreak Ridge video from literally 8 years ago.
Too good.
I hope Bisu makes the finals because BW is better when Bisu is good, but man, let's call it like it was. A terrible performance by him, and he escaped by the skin of his teeth against a player of lower caliber. Where's the Bisu that won 80% last month?
I agree with you that Bisu's perfomance was terrible... He admitted in the interview that he was really mad at himself, because of his poor performance. Let's hope to see the "real" Bisu in the semis and the finals =)
On May 16 2017 12:23 darktreb wrote: Lols, best of Bisu fans out in full force this thread!
Freaking out about his one good game of micro (very good, but every pro can do it ... Bisu deserves credit for being so ballsy on a map that requires it but it was more the ballsiness than the micro that was impressive).
Saying things like Terran OP on Outsider.
I hope Bisu makes the finals because BW is better when Bisu is good, but man, let's call it like it was. A terrible performance by him, and he escaped by the skin of his teeth against a player of lower caliber. Where's the Bisu that won 80% last month?
Im not Bisu fan. Yes he was ballzy and did it perfectly. We know every pro can do it, but for some reason they dont do it like Bisu... Terran looks OP on Outsider. Game 1 and 3 was good im up to watch the rest. Bisu picked shitty build in the first game and almost come back while playing all game with eco disadvantage. Ssak had easier time defending and doing harass all the time, as tastosis said 1 shuttle cant deal with a dropship full of units.
On May 15 2017 14:55 Turbovolver wrote: Absolutely, his micro in game 3 was great but this was definitely the "terribad at PvT" Bisu I remember, and not the one apparently tearing up the matchup on stream these days.
Care to explain?
In game 1, most protosses would have been completely out of the game after that opening, but due to VERY good unit control while breaking pushes, he was able to creep up and almost even out the game even though he was on even bases for most of the game (which is not ideal for protoss). I actually took the game as a positive for Bisu considering how competitive he made it after having completely ineffectual proxy gate and dt harrass.
Game 2 and 3 he displayed great decision making and micro, but the games didn't go long enough to get a very good read on his skillset.
Game 4, that was the one game where I thought Bisu played flat out badly, but then in game 5, he responded quite well to a semi unexpected wraith attack, and had good mechanics, macro and decision making overall.
I kinda cringed at how often Bisu lost units in the centre due to mines without having observers near by, but then again Ssak was making a concerted effort to shoot down observers. Ssak also made quite an effort to draw units out from Bisu and then plant mines behind them.
Honestly, I'd have to re-watch game 1 now to talk about it properly. I might be underrating Bisu there.
Game 2 was yeah, ugh, BBS. Nothing more to say.
Game 3 was an excellent micro showing from Bisu, gotta admit that even as an anti-fan.
Game 4 was classic Bisu PvT failing. No idea when or how to attack in a straight up game. This was the same kind of shit he did vs Sea in an earlier ASL where he lost 3-0.
Game 5, Bisu avoids his usual PvT hurdles by going carriers. His opponent sort of gifts him the game by going wraiths, getting nervous, and going for a big fight while the carriers are heavily protected. I have to imagine, especially on Outsider, that there would be plenty opportunity to keep the wraiths hidden, and suddenly completely rout the carriers when they start trying to abuse the map and can't be backed up, not out in the open! Alternatively, if he had cloak sooner he could have engaged the carriers when they first attacked his 6 o'clock base and I have to imagine that would've gotten some major work done. I mean Bisu won fair and square, but I wouldn't call this game a demonstration of Bisu's new apparent PvT talents.
Seems to me if he wants success in PvT he has to continue catching people off guard with builds, taking advantage of his admittedly great micro, or playing the harass-heavy style he showed vs Sea that can overwhelm most players (but I doubt would win vs top terrans).
On May 18 2017 11:18 Turbovolver wrote: I have to imagine, especially on Outsider, that there would be plenty opportunity to keep the wraiths hidden, and suddenly completely rout the carriers when they start trying to abuse the map and can't be backed up, not out in the open!
But when Bisu doesn't see any real number of Goliaths, why would he back away with the carriers? If there are a significant number of goliaths there is no need to abuse the map and you can just fight things head on.
Your tactical idea really makes no sense to me with how the game looked.
And, since Bisu didn't see enough goliaths he must've known that Wraits where incoming.
On May 18 2017 11:18 Turbovolver wrote: I have to imagine, especially on Outsider, that there would be plenty opportunity to keep the wraiths hidden, and suddenly completely rout the carriers when they start trying to abuse the map and can't be backed up, not out in the open!
But when Bisu doesn't see any real number of Goliaths, why would he back away with the carriers? If there are a significant number of goliaths there is no need to abuse the map and you can just fight things head on.
Your tactical idea really makes no sense to me with how the game looked.
And, since Bisu didn't see enough goliaths he must've known that Wraits where incoming.
Huh?
I just flicked through the game again and I stand by what I said. Ssak panics and attacks with just his wraiths while the carriers are flying above dragoons, the rest of the terran ground army is busy attacking the 1 o'clock base. If instead Ssak uses all those vultures and 6 tanks against the dragoons and carriers, what happens is either Bisu fights and the dragoons melt, Ssak loses his ground army, and then the wraiths can clean up, or Bisu retreats and likely tries to poke at a base using just the carriers, and that's when you go for them. That's what I mean about getting them while they are trying to abuse the map.
You're right that if there's no goliaths the carriers can stay with the protoss ground army, but by my judgement Bisu didn't have enough of a ground army to actually make that relevant provided that Ssak actually used his own ground army in the engagement, which welp, he didn't. That's the more important part of my point - Ssak panicked, and/or was blown out by the random dragoon that spotted his wraiths when they moved out and allowed Bisu to better prepare his observers. He banked the whole game on that one fight (you pretty much have to with wraiths, sure) but then didn't even commit his whole army to the fight. It was a grave mistake.
On May 18 2017 21:54 ortseam wrote: He didn't know, he mentioned in the interview that he thought the carriers were unscouted.
Are you replying to me? I am talking about when they are attacking already. If you don't see goliaths coming out to defend you know wraiths are coming soon.
On May 19 2017 01:00 O.P. wrote: Is it though? Shuttles have speed, are cheaper, and come out quicker.
Yes.
2 dragoons vs 2 tanks. 2 tanks win easy. 4 vultures is way stronger worker harass than 4 zealots. With tank-drops you can abuse ledges and ridges and use distance to greater effect than you can with reaver drops. Now, shuttles and reavers have their advantages as well, but in a drop battle terran is the much stronger race. And Protoss has recall and stuff that is even stronger in other ways, but in drop battles terran is the stronger race.
EPT
