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On December 29 2016 23:29 Foxxan wrote:
Wasnt july overrated actually? I mean, his gamestyle revolved alot around all-ins?
If iloveoov and sAviOr are cases of players whose entire careers are basically built off being approximately three years ahead of their time in terms of strategy, July was the case of someone who built his career off having micromanagement tricks approximately two years ahead of his time.
He first showcased mutalisk micromanagement against Ever)T(Byul on Xeno Sky in April 2004, a month or so before his meteoric rise to fame in Gillette OGN StarLeague. There are no available VODs of that game, so I'll just link some of the mutalisk micromagement he displayed in Gielltte OGN StarLeague. If you can understand Korean, you'll notice how the commentators are spazzing out over the mutalisk micromanagement, saying July looks like the best zerg ever, which is incredible considering he was a rookie.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
The following VOD is the mutalisk micromanagement half a year before July popularized the mineral stacking technique for mutalisks on the very same map by SaferZerg. Notice the lack of stacking, and the lack of damage dealt by the mutalisks, which was common for its era.
http://blog.naver.com/chldlfdnd123/100210473626
Alongside his new revolutionary utilization of mutalisks that would change the match-up forever, he showcased some impeccable lurker-zergling micromanagement, to overcome top terrans such as XellOs and iloveoov for his debut OGN StarLeague title, which was the 1st OGN StarLeague won by a zerg player more than four years past its incarnation.
Even one year past this, only July was able to use mutalisks to their maximum potential. GoRush, the second best zerg in this era (won YATGK MSL), known more for his strategical mind than pure mechanical ability, was unable to use mutalisks to the same degree. Notice how the difference in quality of how GoRush uses mutalisks to stop the terran death ball, and how July uses mutalisks to stop the terran death ball.
2005 ZvT games of GoRush (IOPS OGN StarLeague, EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague)
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
2005 ZvT game of July (EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague)
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
After the revolutionary discovery of the overlord stacking trick discovered by Shark (probably the most influential micromanagement discovery in the history of the game), the level of mutalisk micromanagement quickly caught up to July's standards, who used to manually stack his mutalisks, and still performed reasonably acceptable levels of mutalisk micromanagement even by today's standards. He was probably still the best mutalisk user in 2006 after the fast spread of the overlord stacking trick, as shown by the VOD below.
+ Show Spoiler +
Notice how smooth he is able to perform compared to sAviOr, the best zerg player of 2006.
+ Show Spoiler +
Due to the new method of mutalisk micromanagement, Jaedong was the superior mutalisk user by 2007, but July was the guy who represented mutalisks from 2004 to 2006.
It's not just ZvT he influenced with his revolutionary mutalisk usage, he changed the landscape of ZvZ by making it a battle of mutalisk micromanagement, and making strategies such as zergling and scourge only compositions obsolete with urinating all over it with his mutalisk micromanagement.
+ Show Spoiler +
Notice how GoRush thinks he has July with his mass scourge, only to be outclassed in almost every single manner with the micromanagement from July. GoRush at the time had a career ZvZ record of 60-32, and was considered as one of the best, if not the best, ZvZ masters of all time. July changed the entire landscape of ZvZ, by transforming it into the match-up with the highest level of importance for micromanagement. It's why players who had godlike micromanagement like Jaedong dominated ZvZ unlike the previous generation of ZvZ gods such as GoRush, ZergMaN who were not exactly famous for their micromanagement.
It's not just mutalisks usage July is famous for. July also revolutionized the way zergs reacted to bunker rushes with his impeccable drone micro.
Watch how YellOw, considered the greatest zerg of all time before July came along, reacted to the bunker rush of BoxeR in 2004.
+ Show Spoiler +
BoxeR at the time had prepared this strategy with July, who was able to stop it during practice approximately half the time. Notice when BoxeR does this against July in a televised setting a couple of months later, July shows off a master class of how to stop a bunker rush.
+ Show Spoiler +
Look how smoothly July is able to stop the rush with good placement, use of mineral stacking, and drone movement to stop the rush. If not for this particular technique created by July, terran would have been unstoppable with these rushes, as SCVs and drones, if they are just battling one another by attack moving, have huge disparities in battling capabilities.
These are some of the legacies July left behind, without going into details about the difficulties outside of the game he had to face, the trophies and accolades he gathered throughout his career, and the times he spent as the absolute number one player of the entire scene.
The assessment you gave July probably comes from the fact that July was outclassed in terms of skill, and needed to pull off something special in order to have major success in his final few years of Brood War. Remember, this was some random 15 year old kid, that was trying his luck in the professional scene in 2002. Can you imagine the change he went through by the time he was playing versus BeSt in 2008? He was playing the likes of IntoTheRain, ZeuS, and Kingdom when he was breaking out. Are you trying to judge him as a player three years after his prime?
No other player in history gave me the chills quite like July was able to do. Even when he was almost outcast from the scene, had numerous inner turmoils that almost made him quit the game entirely, he came back, and won his well deserved Golden Mouse in 2008. You have no idea how infuriating it was to see this new wave of viewerbase who only just entered the scene, trying to paint this picture of July as a player based on their personal limited viewing experience. You can make light of his twilight years as a professional, when he was broken from all hardships he went through, but not when he was the shit. He was electrifying as a player, and probably would have gone on to achieve so much more if he had the looks of BoxeR, or Bisu. Still, being one of the four Golden Mouse winners in history, winning KT-KTF 2004/2005 Premier League (the tournament for the biggest overall prize pool in history), going to more OGN StarLeague finals than all the other Golden Mouse winners, having the highest career ZvP win rate in history, and dragging his sponsorless, shitty team until they finally won a ProLeague championship are all things he can be proud of achieving. Objectively speaking? sAviOr achieved a little more, but that kid had the world handed to him, with the decent looks, never-ending adulation from his army of fans, godly mind for the game, sky high talent, and the team full of amazing practice partners and one of the most professional environments created in the Brood War realm. July had nothing. Literally nothing. But to achieve all those things, and being called overrated years later, that's the kind of stuff that'll make me roll in my grave.
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On December 30 2016 12:35 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2016 23:29 Foxxan wrote:
Wasnt july overrated actually? I mean, his gamestyle revolved alot around all-ins? + Show Spoiler +If iloveoov and sAviOr are cases of players whose entire careers are basically built off being approximately three years ahead of their time in terms of strategy, July was the case of someone who built his career off having micromanagement tricks approximately two years ahead of his time. He first showcased mutalisk micromanagement against Ever)T(Byul on Xeno Sky in April 2004, a month or so before July meteoric rise to fame in Gillette OGN StarLeague. There are no available VODs of that game, so I'll just link some of the mutalisk micromagement he displayed in Gielltte OGN StarLeague. If you can understand Korean, you'll notice how the commentators are spazzing out over the mutalisk micromanagement, saying July looks like the best zerg ever, which is incredible considering he was a rookie. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvbb-yBmcbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V34qZmA2qmE The following VOD is the mutalisk micromanagement half a year before July popularized the mineral stacking technique for mutalisks on the very same map by SaferZerg. Notice the lack of stacking, and the lack of damage dealt by the mutalisks, which was common for its era. http://blog.naver.com/chldlfdnd123/100210473626Alongside his new revolutionary utilization of mutalisks that would change the match-up forever, he showcased some impeccable lurker-zergling micromanagement, to overcome top terrans such as XellOs and iloveoov for his debut OGN StarLeague title, which was the 1st OGN StarLeague won by a zerg player more than four years past its incarnation. Even one year past this, only July was able to use mutalisks to their maximum potential. GoRush, the second best zerg in this era (won YATGK MSL), known more for his strategical mind than pure mechanical ability, was unable to use mutalisks to the same degree. Notice how the difference in quality of how GoRush uses mutalisks to stop the terran death ball, and how July uses mutalisks to stop the terran death ball. 2005 ZvT games of GoRush (IOPS OGN StarLeague, EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXZzjjJv_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcuM_AtmT58 2005 ZvT game of July (EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzHK7GpTv8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhsE6wYPttg After the revolutionary discovery of the overlord stacking trick discovered by Shark (probably the most influential micromanagement discovery in the history of the game), the level of mutalisk micromanagement quickly caught up to July's standards, who used to manually stack his mutalisks, and still performed reasonably acceptable levels of mutalisk micromanagement even by today's standards. He was probably still the best mutalisk user in 2006 after the fast spread of the overlord stacking trick, as shown by the VOD below. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XESrk5z6iAc Notice how smooth he is able to perform compared to sAviOr, the best zerg player of 2006. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBrlQOZjUKk Due to the new method of mutalisk micromanagement, Jaedong was the superior mutalisk user by 2007, but July was the guy who represented mutalisks from 2004 to 2006. It's not just ZvT he influenced with his revolutionary mutalisk usage, he changed the landscape of ZvZ by making it a battle of mutalisk micromanagement, and making strategies such as zergling and scourge only compositions obsolete with urinating all over it with his mutalisk micromanagement. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6w6W15Cgsg Notice how GoRush thinks he has July with his mass scourge, only to be outclassed in almost every single manner with the micromanagement from July. GoRush at the time had a career ZvZ record of 60-32, and was considered as one of the best, if not the best, ZvZ masters of all time. July changed the entire landscape of ZvZ, by transforming it into the match-up with the highest level of importance for micromanagement. It's why players who had godlike micromanagement like Jaedong dominated ZvZ unlike the previous generation of ZvZ gods such as GoRush, ZergMaN who were not exactly famous for their micromanagement. It's not just mutalisks usage July is famous for. July also revolutionized the way zergs reacted to bunker rushes with his impeccable drone micro. Watch how YellOw, considered the greatest zerg of all time before July came along, reacted to the bunker rush of BoxeR in 2004. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI4U0daet3k BoxeR at the time had prepared this strategy with July, who was able to stop it during practice approximately half the time. Notice when BoxeR does this against July in a televised setting a couple of months later, July shows off a master class of how to stop a bunker rush. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kpXLkynnP4 Look how smoothly July is able to stop the rush with good placement, use of mineral stacking, and drone movement to stop the rush. If not for this particular technique created by July, terran would have been unstoppable with these rushes, as SCVs and drones, if they are just battling one another by attack moving, have huge disparities in battling capabilities. These are some of the legacies July left behind, without going into details about the difficulties outside of the game he had to face, the trophies and accolades he gathered throughout his career, and the times he spent as the absolute number one player of the entire scene. The assessment you gave July probably comes from the fact that July was outclassed in terms of skill, and needed to pull off something special in order to have major success in his final few years of Brood War. Remember, this was some random 15 year old kid, that was trying his luck in the professional scene in 2002. Can you imagine the change he went through by the time he was playing versus BeSt in 2008? He was playing the likes of IntoTheRain, ZeuS, and Kingdom when he was breaking out. Are you trying to judge him as a player three years after his prime? No other player in history gave me the chills quite like July was able to do. Even when he was almost outcast from the scene, had numerous inner turmoils that almost made him quit the game entirely, he came back, and won his well deserved Golden Mouse in 2008. You have no idea how infuriating it was to see this new wave of viewerbase who only just entered the scene, trying to paint this picture of July as a player based on their personal limited viewing experience. You can make light of his twilight years as a professional, when he was broken from all hardships he went through, but not when he was the shit. He was electrifying as a player, and probably would have gone on to achieve so much more if he had the looks of BoxeR, or Bisu. Still, being one of the four Golden Mouse winners in history, winning KT-KTF 2004/2005 Premier League (the tournament for the biggest overall prize pool in history), going to more OGN StarLeague finals than any other player in history, having the highest career ZvP win rate in history, and dragging his sponsorless, shitty team until they finally won a ProLeague championship are all things he can be proud of achieving. Objectively speaking? sAviOr achieved a little more, but that kid had the world handed to him, with the decent looks, never-ending adulation from his army of fans, godly mind for the game, sky high talent, and the team full of amazing practice partners and one of the most professional environments created in the Brood War realm. July had nothing. Literally nothing. But to achieve all those things, and being called overrated years later, that's the kind of stuff that'll make me roll in my grave.
If you really wrote all that just now to respond to that, my hat is off. That could easily be a top level retrospective of July's career. July was before I started following the scene, so I learned a lot from the post.
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On December 30 2016 12:35 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2016 23:29 Foxxan wrote:
Wasnt july overrated actually? I mean, his gamestyle revolved alot around all-ins? + Show Spoiler +If iloveoov and sAviOr are cases of players whose entire careers are basically built off being approximately three years ahead of their time in terms of strategy, July was the case of someone who built his career off having micromanagement tricks approximately two years ahead of his time. He first showcased mutalisk micromanagement against Ever)T(Byul on Xeno Sky in April 2004, a month or so before July meteoric rise to fame in Gillette OGN StarLeague. There are no available VODs of that game, so I'll just link some of the mutalisk micromagement he displayed in Gielltte OGN StarLeague. If you can understand Korean, you'll notice how the commentators are spazzing out over the mutalisk micromanagement, saying July looks like the best zerg ever, which is incredible considering he was a rookie. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvbb-yBmcbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V34qZmA2qmE The following VOD is the mutalisk micromanagement half a year before July popularized the mineral stacking technique for mutalisks on the very same map by SaferZerg. Notice the lack of stacking, and the lack of damage dealt by the mutalisks, which was common for its era. http://blog.naver.com/chldlfdnd123/100210473626Alongside his new revolutionary utilization of mutalisks that would change the match-up forever, he showcased some impeccable lurker-zergling micromanagement, to overcome top terrans such as XellOs and iloveoov for his debut OGN StarLeague title, which was the 1st OGN StarLeague won by a zerg player more than four years past its incarnation. Even one year past this, only July was able to use mutalisks to their maximum potential. GoRush, the second best zerg in this era (won YATGK MSL), known more for his strategical mind than pure mechanical ability, was unable to use mutalisks to the same degree. Notice how the difference in quality of how GoRush uses mutalisks to stop the terran death ball, and how July uses mutalisks to stop the terran death ball. 2005 ZvT games of GoRush (IOPS OGN StarLeague, EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXZzjjJv_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcuM_AtmT58 2005 ZvT game of July (EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzHK7GpTv8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhsE6wYPttg After the revolutionary discovery of the overlord stacking trick discovered by Shark (probably the most influential micromanagement discovery in the history of the game), the level of mutalisk micromanagement quickly caught up to July's standards, who used to manually stack his mutalisks, and still performed reasonably acceptable levels of mutalisk micromanagement even by today's standards. He was probably still the best mutalisk user in 2006 after the fast spread of the overlord stacking trick, as shown by the VOD below. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XESrk5z6iAc Notice how smooth he is able to perform compared to sAviOr, the best zerg player of 2006. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBrlQOZjUKk Due to the new method of mutalisk micromanagement, Jaedong was the superior mutalisk user by 2007, but July was the guy who represented mutalisks from 2004 to 2006. It's not just ZvT he influenced with his revolutionary mutalisk usage, he changed the landscape of ZvZ by making it a battle of mutalisk micromanagement, and making strategies such as zergling and scourge only compositions obsolete with urinating all over it with his mutalisk micromanagement. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6w6W15Cgsg Notice how GoRush thinks he has July with his mass scourge, only to be outclassed in almost every single manner with the micromanagement from July. GoRush at the time had a career ZvZ record of 60-32, and was considered as one of the best, if not the best, ZvZ masters of all time. July changed the entire landscape of ZvZ, by transforming it into the match-up with the highest level of importance for micromanagement. It's why players who had godlike micromanagement like Jaedong dominated ZvZ unlike the previous generation of ZvZ gods such as GoRush, ZergMaN who were not exactly famous for their micromanagement. It's not just mutalisks usage July is famous for. July also revolutionized the way zergs reacted to bunker rushes with his impeccable drone micro. Watch how YellOw, considered the greatest zerg of all time before July came along, reacted to the bunker rush of BoxeR in 2004. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI4U0daet3k BoxeR at the time had prepared this strategy with July, who was able to stop it during practice approximately half the time. Notice when BoxeR does this against July in a televised setting a couple of months later, July shows off a master class of how to stop a bunker rush. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kpXLkynnP4 Look how smoothly July is able to stop the rush with good placement, use of mineral stacking, and drone movement to stop the rush. If not for this particular technique created by July, terran would have been unstoppable with these rushes, as SCVs and drones, if they are just battling one another by attack moving, have huge disparities in battling capabilities. These are some of the legacies July left behind, without going into details about the difficulties outside of the game he had to face, the trophies and accolades he gathered throughout his career, and the times he spent as the absolute number one player of the entire scene. The assessment you gave July probably comes from the fact that July was outclassed in terms of skill, and needed to pull off something special in order to have major success in his final few years of Brood War. Remember, this was some random 15 year old kid, that was trying his luck in the professional scene in 2002. Can you imagine the change he went through by the time he was playing versus BeSt in 2008? He was playing the likes of IntoTheRain, ZeuS, and Kingdom when he was breaking out. Are you trying to judge him as a player three years after his prime? No other player in history gave me the chills quite like July was able to do. Even when he was almost outcast from the scene, had numerous inner turmoils that almost made him quit the game entirely, he came back, and won his well deserved Golden Mouse in 2008. You have no idea how infuriating it was to see this new wave of viewerbase who only just entered the scene, trying to paint this picture of July as a player based on their personal limited viewing experience. You can make light of his twilight years as a professional, when he was broken from all hardships he went through, but not when he was the shit. He was electrifying as a player, and probably would have gone on to achieve so much more if he had the looks of BoxeR, or Bisu. Still, being one of the four Golden Mouse winners in history, winning KT-KTF 2004/2005 Premier League (the tournament for the biggest overall prize pool in history), going to more OGN StarLeague finals than any other player in history, having the highest career ZvP win rate in history, and dragging his sponsorless, shitty team until they finally won a ProLeague championship are all things he can be proud of achieving. Objectively speaking? sAviOr achieved a little more, but that kid had the world handed to him, with the decent looks, never-ending adulation from his army of fans, godly mind for the game, sky high talent, and the team full of amazing practice partners and one of the most professional environments created in the Brood War realm. July had nothing. Literally nothing. But to achieve all those things, and being called overrated years later, that's the kind of stuff that'll make me roll in my grave.
Thanks for the read. All your posts are very interesting, for your last comparison between July and Yellow on how to stop a bunker rush, Boxer's openings are not the same in those games, he commits much less with his bunker rush vs July so I cannot really see any significant difference in the micro departement, both Z's try to go for the Marines but it is obviously much harder to get to them when there are 6-7 SCVs instead of 2.
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On December 30 2016 13:43 Cryoc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2016 12:35 Letmelose wrote:On December 29 2016 23:29 Foxxan wrote:
Wasnt july overrated actually? I mean, his gamestyle revolved alot around all-ins? + Show Spoiler +If iloveoov and sAviOr are cases of players whose entire careers are basically built off being approximately three years ahead of their time in terms of strategy, July was the case of someone who built his career off having micromanagement tricks approximately two years ahead of his time. He first showcased mutalisk micromanagement against Ever)T(Byul on Xeno Sky in April 2004, a month or so before July meteoric rise to fame in Gillette OGN StarLeague. There are no available VODs of that game, so I'll just link some of the mutalisk micromagement he displayed in Gielltte OGN StarLeague. If you can understand Korean, you'll notice how the commentators are spazzing out over the mutalisk micromanagement, saying July looks like the best zerg ever, which is incredible considering he was a rookie. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvbb-yBmcbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V34qZmA2qmE The following VOD is the mutalisk micromanagement half a year before July popularized the mineral stacking technique for mutalisks on the very same map by SaferZerg. Notice the lack of stacking, and the lack of damage dealt by the mutalisks, which was common for its era. http://blog.naver.com/chldlfdnd123/100210473626Alongside his new revolutionary utilization of mutalisks that would change the match-up forever, he showcased some impeccable lurker-zergling micromanagement, to overcome top terrans such as XellOs and iloveoov for his debut OGN StarLeague title, which was the 1st OGN StarLeague won by a zerg player more than four years past its incarnation. Even one year past this, only July was able to use mutalisks to their maximum potential. GoRush, the second best zerg in this era (won YATGK MSL), known more for his strategical mind than pure mechanical ability, was unable to use mutalisks to the same degree. Notice how the difference in quality of how GoRush uses mutalisks to stop the terran death ball, and how July uses mutalisks to stop the terran death ball. 2005 ZvT games of GoRush (IOPS OGN StarLeague, EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXZzjjJv_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcuM_AtmT58 2005 ZvT game of July (EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzHK7GpTv8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhsE6wYPttg After the revolutionary discovery of the overlord stacking trick discovered by Shark (probably the most influential micromanagement discovery in the history of the game), the level of mutalisk micromanagement quickly caught up to July's standards, who used to manually stack his mutalisks, and still performed reasonably acceptable levels of mutalisk micromanagement even by today's standards. He was probably still the best mutalisk user in 2006 after the fast spread of the overlord stacking trick, as shown by the VOD below. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XESrk5z6iAc Notice how smooth he is able to perform compared to sAviOr, the best zerg player of 2006. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBrlQOZjUKk Due to the new method of mutalisk micromanagement, Jaedong was the superior mutalisk user by 2007, but July was the guy who represented mutalisks from 2004 to 2006. It's not just ZvT he influenced with his revolutionary mutalisk usage, he changed the landscape of ZvZ by making it a battle of mutalisk micromanagement, and making strategies such as zergling and scourge only compositions obsolete with urinating all over it with his mutalisk micromanagement. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6w6W15Cgsg Notice how GoRush thinks he has July with his mass scourge, only to be outclassed in almost every single manner with the micromanagement from July. GoRush at the time had a career ZvZ record of 60-32, and was considered as one of the best, if not the best, ZvZ masters of all time. July changed the entire landscape of ZvZ, by transforming it into the match-up with the highest level of importance for micromanagement. It's why players who had godlike micromanagement like Jaedong dominated ZvZ unlike the previous generation of ZvZ gods such as GoRush, ZergMaN who were not exactly famous for their micromanagement. It's not just mutalisks usage July is famous for. July also revolutionized the way zergs reacted to bunker rushes with his impeccable drone micro. Watch how YellOw, considered the greatest zerg of all time before July came along, reacted to the bunker rush of BoxeR in 2004. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI4U0daet3k BoxeR at the time had prepared this strategy with July, who was able to stop it during practice approximately half the time. Notice when BoxeR does this against July in a televised setting a couple of months later, July shows off a master class of how to stop a bunker rush. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kpXLkynnP4 Look how smoothly July is able to stop the rush with good placement, use of mineral stacking, and drone movement to stop the rush. If not for this particular technique created by July, terran would have been unstoppable with these rushes, as SCVs and drones, if they are just battling one another by attack moving, have huge disparities in battling capabilities. These are some of the legacies July left behind, without going into details about the difficulties outside of the game he had to face, the trophies and accolades he gathered throughout his career, and the times he spent as the absolute number one player of the entire scene. The assessment you gave July probably comes from the fact that July was outclassed in terms of skill, and needed to pull off something special in order to have major success in his final few years of Brood War. Remember, this was some random 15 year old kid, that was trying his luck in the professional scene in 2002. Can you imagine the change he went through by the time he was playing versus BeSt in 2008? He was playing the likes of IntoTheRain, ZeuS, and Kingdom when he was breaking out. Are you trying to judge him as a player three years after his prime? No other player in history gave me the chills quite like July was able to do. Even when he was almost outcast from the scene, had numerous inner turmoils that almost made him quit the game entirely, he came back, and won his well deserved Golden Mouse in 2008. You have no idea how infuriating it was to see this new wave of viewerbase who only just entered the scene, trying to paint this picture of July as a player based on their personal limited viewing experience. You can make light of his twilight years as a professional, when he was broken from all hardships he went through, but not when he was the shit. He was electrifying as a player, and probably would have gone on to achieve so much more if he had the looks of BoxeR, or Bisu. Still, being one of the four Golden Mouse winners in history, winning KT-KTF 2004/2005 Premier League (the tournament for the biggest overall prize pool in history), going to more OGN StarLeague finals than any other player in history, having the highest career ZvP win rate in history, and dragging his sponsorless, shitty team until they finally won a ProLeague championship are all things he can be proud of achieving. Objectively speaking? sAviOr achieved a little more, but that kid had the world handed to him, with the decent looks, never-ending adulation from his army of fans, godly mind for the game, sky high talent, and the team full of amazing practice partners and one of the most professional environments created in the Brood War realm. July had nothing. Literally nothing. But to achieve all those things, and being called overrated years later, that's the kind of stuff that'll make me roll in my grave. Thanks for the read. All your posts are very interesting, for your last comparison between July and Yellow on how to stop a bunker rush, Boxer's openings are not the same in those games, he commits much less with his bunker rush vs July so I cannot really see any significant difference in the micro departement, both Z's try to go for the Marines but it is obviously much harder to get to them when there are 6-7 SCVs instead of 2.
There are multiple cases of players such as Silent_Control, and BoxeR who used bunkering to great success. There were almost zero cases of the zerg successfully defending against them with superior drone micromanagement. Notice how July slides his drones into superior position, and surrounds the marines, instead of fighting against SCVs, by clicking the vespene gas, or mineral fields. YellOw, and other top zergs of the era such as JJu, didn't have this technique fully mastered, and you'll notice YellOw fights against SCVs instead of surrounding the marines, and trying to position the drones so that additional marines coming from the barracks can be cut off. These are all basic techniques that July first showed on television. I'll link some more if you want varying degrees of commitment from the terran player.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
YellOw himself commented that he didn't have this technique mastered, which is why he lost that infamous semi-finals against BoxeR 0-3. He didn't know where to position the drones, when the initiate the fight if the marines were mispositioned, when to back off and try to cut off reinforcements, and which situations he could just counter the enemy base. All these basic concepts were mastered by July as early as 2004, who practiced against these early builds extensively.
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On top of that, if you think Jaedong or Flash had it hard with their teams, July was the guy that gave up everything for his team. Not only did he sacrifice his prize money for his then sponsorless team, he split his time playing other races in order to make up for the lack of personnel his team had, was responsible for the 2v2, as well as the ACE matches. It wasn't uncommon for him to enter various individual leagues with zero practice due to how hard he tried to make his worthless team into a championship material team, like BoxeR tried to make a lasting legacy in e-Sports, trying to raise the entire scene along with him.
+ Show Spoiler +
The above game was July trying to carry his team by playing terran when he couldn't play anymore games for his team as a zerg player. Can you imagine such a thing happening with modern day players?
Can you imagine the burden of competing in multiple tournaments with everyone gunning for you, without any practice due to how much you wanted your team to make it? Against hard opponents like SK Telecom T1, July would literally put the team on his back, and play four out of the five possible matches (regular 1v1 match, two 2v2 matches, and the ACE match).
July had nothing going for him. He did everything he could, and even when he could have sold out to go to teams like SK Telecom T1 when they realized his potential, he stuck with his team, and envisioned a future where he could build a lasting legacy as the leader of a championship winning team. All the players we are familiar with today, such as Sea, or Bisu benefited from the enormous sacrifices July made to draw interests from sponsors and creating another environment future talent could develop under.
July, after years of slaving away for his team, giving up his chance for an easy out to be successful on a more established team, finally succeeded in leading MBC Game HERO to their only ProLeague championships in late 2006, against CJ Entus and won the play-offs MVP. He finally defeated his arch-nemesis iloveoov in the ProLeague Grand Finals to take the thrown away from the ProLeague empire of SK Telecom T1 for the first time since Ongamenet and MBC Game joined forces to create a unified ProLeague in 2005. It would be the last ProLeague championship MBC Game HERO would ever have in their entire history.
After all his sacrifice for his team, MBC Game HERO, the reigning champions, decided that July wasn't good looking enough to be their main star, and gathered the limited resources they had, and poured it all into Bisu, who took the spotlight by defeating sAviOr in the most dramatic way possible. July, after dragging his worthless piece of shit team that barely qualified as a professional team past the qualification rounds for the ProLeague, and stuck it out until they finally became champions at the cost of his own career, was hung out to dry. It was time to invest in the pretty boy who get the praise from the media. July wasn't popular enough to warantee a high salary despite everything he did.
What was the two time MSL championship winner Bisu's record now that he took the highest salary on this championship winning team? 29th most wins in the regular season in R1, 40th most wins in the regular season in R2, and fails to lead his team to vicotry in the play-offs, boasting a 33% win rate in the play-off stages. Doesn't matter though right? Bisu had the gorgeous looks. Everything he touched was gold according to his obnoxious fanbase. All his failures were alright despite Bisu being more fortunate with his circumstances than most professional gamers in history.
July nearly quits progaming due to how betrayed he felt, and becomes disillusioned with everything. Bisu goes to SK Telecom T1, and MBC Game HERO becomes one of the joke teams in the ProLeague wasting the talents of players such as Sea by telling him there's no point of winning the ProLeague because they don't have the funds to support him any more than they do now. Despite that, July still finds it within himself to win an additional OGN StarLeague, and tries to perform even without the pure burning passion he once had for the game. If that's the only memory you have of July, by golly you need to do your research before calling him overrated.
I literally want to kill someone anytime someone makes light of July without having the slightest clue of what the guy represented.
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Letmelose, are you some kind of walking BW wikipedia or something? You seem to know everything. Such a good read 
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On December 30 2016 16:28 Zera wrote:Letmelose, are you some kind of walking BW wikipedia or something? You seem to know everything. Such a good read
Following the scene casually since 2003, and being fluent in both languages help, there tends to be more information readily available in Korean, although much has been lost since professional Brood War came to an end. There's stuff to learn by being on this site also, I think I actually read about Daezang's new method of playstyle on Team Liquid first. Just reading stuff on communities such as PGR21, DCInside, Fighterforum, FOMOS, YGOSU, and Team Liquid, over ten years makes it easier to go back and search for information if a topic of interest comes up.
I'm really out of my depth with the 1st generation of professional players, but nobody ever discusses them ever except for BoxeR who is the only one to really survive into the modern day era. Even on Korean forums, much of the in-depth discussion about those days are lost with certain sites shutting down, and much of the records from those days are gone forever, including exact bracket details, and VODs. I tried my best to gather information from those times, but it's an exercise in futility in my opinion.
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Yeah, it's a really interesting read. Plus someone using "audacity" in an actual sentence is awesome.
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United States10092 Posts
On December 30 2016 16:28 Zera wrote:Letmelose, are you some kind of walking BW wikipedia or something? You seem to know everything. Such a good read
Give him dictionary icon
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Boy am I glad I brought up July. 
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I always love when you come to TL Letmelose
I was trying to find an old article about Daezang and the PVZ revolution he started, i thought Plexa made a TLFE abuot it, but i can't find it. Anyway, this thread is like a huge article about pro BW thanks to you and i'm keeping it in my favorite pages for sure !
I followed BW since 2001, my first OSL was Coca Cola, so i know a little bit about BW history, but when i'm reading you, it feels like i know nothing
Thanks for your input on July, he doesn't get enough love. His 3/2 victory over Oov in Gillette was probably the biggest upset i can remember in BW (and the nicest as far as i'm concerned). His 3/2 victory over GoodFriend was also an incredible moment. And about bunker rushes, i think you could have gone with this beauty of counter attack against Xellos on Forte:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/1457_July_vs_XellOs/vod
Just when you think he's doomed because he missed the drone micro, he finds another path to victory. I remember that game very well, almost 10 years from it.
Still, i think you're a little hard on Savior and Bisu. The whole Bonjwa thing isn't only about trophies and stats. I think there a mystical approach to it, just like the OSL curse or legend of the fall, there's something about history repeting itself. When Nada came, he was the young fearless kid with better macro who owned Boxer, won 3 MSLs (or KPGA tours as they were called), had trouble qualifying for OSL and finally managed to win the biggest prize of all when he did.
Then Oov came, Nada became his bitch, his macro was on another level, he won 3 MSLs and after some trouble with OSL, finally won the big prize himself.
Then Savior came and repeated almost the same story, his macro was different from other zergs (one could make a point about Gorush right here, but Gorush, as good as he was, never managed to maintain his mental strength long enough to become the best), he won 3 MSLs (not in a row, but made 4 finals in a row) and then, after so many setbacks, qualify for OSL and wins it. On his path to glory, he made Oov look has been, destroying him on many opportunities.
I think Bisu's fans hoped he would follow this path, but even though he made Savior look bad, became a role model for other protoss players, and won 3 MSLs in 4 finals, he never climbed that last step to glory. The times had changed and it was the same with OSL curse, when Nada broke it by coming back into the final (only to lose to... Savior) and the same with legend of the fall, no protoss won an OSL for 3 years. Suddenly it wasn't about individual leagues, Proleague became a bigger prize and teams and players modified their approach of the game.
Savior was the final bonjwa because he fits the storyline, not because he was the last dominant player. Jaedong and Flash (and maybe one could make a case for Bisu) were far more dominant imo, but their dominance didn't fit the legend of old times, so they couldn't take that title that corresponds to a certain path to glory.
And Savior certainly didn't carry his team on his back as much as July (Xellos did most of it for GO) but he carried it to sponsorship and was instrumental into making BW a bigger and more professional game. In the end, he hurt the game as much as he made it grow which is a shame, but I still love his style and the feeling he gave especially against terran, he was walking a tight rope, falling was easy but somehow he managed to walk to victory just like it was the normal thing to do. His series against Nada, Iris, Hwasin... awesome memories
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Uh, i just found your very first post on the topic, i see we have pretty much the same opinion on the bonjwa thing
It comforts me actually, it's not always easy to agree with someone on BW history !
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On December 30 2016 12:35 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2016 23:29 Foxxan wrote:
Wasnt july overrated actually? I mean, his gamestyle revolved alot around all-ins? If iloveoov and sAviOr are cases of players whose entire careers are basically built off being approximately three years ahead of their time in terms of strategy, July was the case of someone who built his career off having micromanagement tricks approximately two years ahead of his time. He first showcased mutalisk micromanagement against Ever)T(Byul on Xeno Sky in April 2004, a month or so before his meteoric rise to fame in Gillette OGN StarLeague. There are no available VODs of that game, so I'll just link some of the mutalisk micromagement he displayed in Gielltte OGN StarLeague. If you can understand Korean, you'll notice how the commentators are spazzing out over the mutalisk micromanagement, saying July looks like the best zerg ever, which is incredible considering he was a rookie. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvbb-yBmcbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V34qZmA2qmE The following VOD is the mutalisk micromanagement half a year before July popularized the mineral stacking technique for mutalisks on the very same map by SaferZerg. Notice the lack of stacking, and the lack of damage dealt by the mutalisks, which was common for its era. http://blog.naver.com/chldlfdnd123/100210473626Alongside his new revolutionary utilization of mutalisks that would change the match-up forever, he showcased some impeccable lurker-zergling micromanagement, to overcome top terrans such as XellOs and iloveoov for his debut OGN StarLeague title, which was the 1st OGN StarLeague won by a zerg player more than four years past its incarnation. Even one year past this, only July was able to use mutalisks to their maximum potential. GoRush, the second best zerg in this era (won YATGK MSL), known more for his strategical mind than pure mechanical ability, was unable to use mutalisks to the same degree. Notice how the difference in quality of how GoRush uses mutalisks to stop the terran death ball, and how July uses mutalisks to stop the terran death ball. 2005 ZvT games of GoRush (IOPS OGN StarLeague, EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXZzjjJv_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcuM_AtmT58 2005 ZvT game of July (EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzHK7GpTv8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhsE6wYPttg After the revolutionary discovery of the overlord stacking trick discovered by Shark (probably the most influential micromanagement discovery in the history of the game), the level of mutalisk micromanagement quickly caught up to July's standards, who used to manually stack his mutalisks, and still performed reasonably acceptable levels of mutalisk micromanagement even by today's standards. He was probably still the best mutalisk user in 2006 after the fast spread of the overlord stacking trick, as shown by the VOD below. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XESrk5z6iAc Notice how smooth he is able to perform compared to sAviOr, the best zerg player of 2006. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBrlQOZjUKk Due to the new method of mutalisk micromanagement, Jaedong was the superior mutalisk user by 2007, but July was the guy who represented mutalisks from 2004 to 2006. It's not just ZvT he influenced with his revolutionary mutalisk usage, he changed the landscape of ZvZ by making it a battle of mutalisk micromanagement, and making strategies such as zergling and scourge only compositions obsolete with urinating all over it with his mutalisk micromanagement. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6w6W15Cgsg Notice how GoRush thinks he has July with his mass scourge, only to be outclassed in almost every single manner with the micromanagement from July. GoRush at the time had a career ZvZ record of 60-32, and was considered as one of the best, if not the best, ZvZ masters of all time. July changed the entire landscape of ZvZ, by transforming it into the match-up with the highest level of importance for micromanagement. It's why players who had godlike micromanagement like Jaedong dominated ZvZ unlike the previous generation of ZvZ gods such as GoRush, ZergMaN who were not exactly famous for their micromanagement. It's not just mutalisks usage July is famous for. July also revolutionized the way zergs reacted to bunker rushes with his impeccable drone micro. Watch how YellOw, considered the greatest zerg of all time before July came along, reacted to the bunker rush of BoxeR in 2004. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI4U0daet3k BoxeR at the time had prepared this strategy with July, who was able to stop it during practice approximately half the time. Notice when BoxeR does this against July in a televised setting a couple of months later, July shows off a master class of how to stop a bunker rush. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kpXLkynnP4 Look how smoothly July is able to stop the rush with good placement, use of mineral stacking, and drone movement to stop the rush. If not for this particular technique created by July, terran would have been unstoppable with these rushes, as SCVs and drones, if they are just battling one another by attack moving, have huge disparities in battling capabilities. These are some of the legacies July left behind, without going into details about the difficulties outside of the game he had to face, the trophies and accolades he gathered throughout his career, and the times he spent as the absolute number one player of the entire scene. The assessment you gave July probably comes from the fact that July was outclassed in terms of skill, and needed to pull off something special in order to have major success in his final few years of Brood War. Remember, this was some random 15 year old kid, that was trying his luck in the professional scene in 2002. Can you imagine the change he went through by the time he was playing versus BeSt in 2008? He was playing the likes of IntoTheRain, ZeuS, and Kingdom when he was breaking out. Are you trying to judge him as a player three years after his prime? No other player in history gave me the chills quite like July was able to do. Even when he was almost outcast from the scene, had numerous inner turmoils that almost made him quit the game entirely, he came back, and won his well deserved Golden Mouse in 2008. You have no idea how infuriating it was to see this new wave of viewerbase who only just entered the scene, trying to paint this picture of July as a player based on their personal limited viewing experience. You can make light of his twilight years as a professional, when he was broken from all hardships he went through, but not when he was the shit. He was electrifying as a player, and probably would have gone on to achieve so much more if he had the looks of BoxeR, or Bisu. Still, being one of the four Golden Mouse winners in history, winning KT-KTF 2004/2005 Premier League (the tournament for the biggest overall prize pool in history), going to more OGN StarLeague finals than any other player in history, having the highest career ZvP win rate in history, and dragging his sponsorless, shitty team until they finally won a ProLeague championship are all things he can be proud of achieving. Objectively speaking? sAviOr achieved a little more, but that kid had the world handed to him, with the decent looks, never-ending adulation from his army of fans, godly mind for the game, sky high talent, and the team full of amazing practice partners and one of the most professional environments created in the Brood War realm. July had nothing. Literally nothing. But to achieve all those things, and being called overrated years later, that's the kind of stuff that'll make me roll in my grave.
Great read, and I like and appreciate July, too.
But one point of clarification: Didn't Boxer go to more OSL finals (6) than July did (5)?
I think Fantasy is also tied with him at 5.
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On December 30 2016 21:26 ~chut~ wrote:I always love when you come to TL Letmelose I was trying to find an old article about Daezang and the PVZ revolution he started, i thought Plexa made a TLFE abuot it, but i can't find it. Anyway, this thread is like a huge article about pro BW thanks to you and i'm keeping it in my favorite pages for sure ! I followed BW since 2001, my first OSL was Coca Cola, so i know a little bit about BW history, but when i'm reading you, it feels like i know nothing Thanks for your input on July, he doesn't get enough love. His 3/2 victory over Oov in Gillette was probably the biggest upset i can remember in BW (and the nicest as far as i'm concerned). His 3/2 victory over GoodFriend was also an incredible moment. And about bunker rushes, i think you could have gone with this beauty of counter attack against Xellos on Forte: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/1457_July_vs_XellOs/vodJust when you think he's doomed because he missed the drone micro, he finds another path to victory. I remember that game very well, almost 10 years from it. Still, i think you're a little hard on Savior and Bisu. The whole Bonjwa thing isn't only about trophies and stats. I think there a mystical approach to it, just like the OSL curse or legend of the fall, there's something about history repeting itself. When Nada came, he was the young fearless kid with better macro who owned Boxer, won 3 MSLs (or KPGA tours as they were called), had trouble qualifying for OSL and finally managed to win the biggest prize of all when he did. Then Oov came, Nada became his bitch, his macro was on another level, he won 3 MSLs and after some trouble with OSL, finally won the big prize himself. Then Savior came and repeated almost the same story, his macro was different from other zergs (one could make a point about Gorush right here, but Gorush, as good as he was, never managed to maintain his mental strength long enough to become the best), he won 3 MSLs (not in a row, but made 4 finals in a row) and then, after so many setbacks, qualify for OSL and wins it. On his path to glory, he made Oov look has been, destroying him on many opportunities. I think Bisu's fans hoped he would follow this path, but even though he made Savior look bad, became a role model for other protoss players, and won 3 MSLs in 4 finals, he never climbed that last step to glory. The times had changed and it was the same with OSL curse, when Nada broke it by coming back into the final (only to lose to... Savior) and the same with legend of the fall, no protoss won an OSL for 3 years. Suddenly it wasn't about individual leagues, Proleague became a bigger prize and teams and players modified their approach of the game. Savior was the final bonjwa because he fits the storyline, not because he was the last dominant player. Jaedong and Flash (and maybe one could make a case for Bisu) were far more dominant imo, but their dominance didn't fit the legend of old times, so they couldn't take that title that corresponds to a certain path to glory. And Savior certainly didn't carry his team on his back as much as July (Xellos did most of it for GO) but he carried it to sponsorship and was instrumental into making BW a bigger and more professional game. In the end, he hurt the game as much as he made it grow which is a shame, but I still love his style and the feeling he gave especially against terran, he was walking a tight rope, falling was easy but somehow he managed to walk to victory just like it was the normal thing to do. His series against Nada, Iris, Hwasin... awesome memories
To be quite honest, I was a convert to the religion of sAviOr for a while (there is a strong mythical element to his fandom). I followed Stacraft casually, but didn't like how terran would win all the time. Then I saw July one fateful evening in 2004, and was instantly hooked, and started watching every professional game that I could. It's when I started to visit communities to learn more about the past history, compilation of statistics, highlight videos, and articles written by insightful fellow fans.
After a while, I discovered that there were English speaking communities as well, and liked this one the best. One thing I noticed was that there was a higher percentage of IPXZerg fans on this site than on sites like Fighterforum, probably due to the impressive replays he had (this site seemed to be very dependent on replays rather than televised games due to the nature of how people consumed Brood War content), but I thought they were stupid, and told myself there was no way IPXZerg could be on the level of July with the mediocre mutalisk micromanagement that he had. Insiders within the scene, including the commentators like Kim Dong Jun would hype this new zerg player, but I saw nothing mechanically gifted about this kid, just like I saw nothing special about iloveoov compared to NaDa.
Then his legendary streak began. This was when July was starting to run out of steam after devoting all his energy into making MBC Game HERO into a legitimate team, so I filled the void he left behind as the only top zerg player worth watching in the latter stages of the individual leagues by watching sAviOr. Kim Dong Jun was right. The guys on Team Liquid were right. This guy had some of the smoothest transitions within the game, and had way better defiler usage than July. He used the threat of mutalisks, not as main weapon, like July used to, but a mere means to an end, and won the game without needing to pull off miraculous micromanagement outplay, or stunning battles. He seemed to read his opponents like a book. This was when I started to play the game in secret from my parents, so I could actually understand slivers of his immense genius. The dude was so smart. He was so ahead of the other players of his era, that I thought it was a crime if NaDa ended up winning due to the map advantage he had.
The more I read about the deeper meaning of his every move, and the more I understood his way of thinking, the more impressed I was. That path to his fandom was so all devouring it was almost impossible to escape. How could you not be a fan of sAviOr after the dramatic nature of his ascension to the throne, and the way in which is victories were like fine wine? The articles that came along, both in Korean, and in English were some of the most riveting, and eye-opening experiences that I had as a fan. Just being a sAviOr fan, and learning more about this player was so stimulating both on an intellectual, and emotional level. There's a reason why anyone who saw Shinhan OGN StarLeague S3 from start to finish couldn't help but fixate on the genius of sAviOr, and be intoxicated by his genius for years on end.
Who doesn't know this song? Who doesn't know the name of the maps like Longinus, and Reverse Temple? Who doesn't know about that crazy BO5 he had against Iris? His nail-biting base trade against the mighty Midas?
+ Show Spoiler +
There's a certain magnetic draw to the victories he had that makes them all the more memorable to almost everyone I know of. I agree to an extent that creating this sort of magic is the intangible aspect that separates the champions from the legends that are still remembered to this date. However, I am now of the belief that while seizing the moment is what defines a legend, some are gifted it, while others have to battle against impossible odds just to be within reach of it. Life's not fair as it is, and at least within the confines of this virtual battle-field, there's some level of justice for whoever played better on that particular day. This is what drew me to competitive gaming in the first place, there's something pure about it. Just two human beings battling to see who has mastered this craft better.
Once you start to attach meaning to it, and attach value to the players depending on that meaning, this becomes another shit-fest of power struggles where might equals right. It no longer remains a pure artform unspoiled by the politics of shitty human beings. History becomes written by the victors, and those victors are the fans of the players. Forgettable players have their triumph taken away from them, and are forever banished to the hidden pages of the history books.
As the 2007 season began, I started to follow Jaedong after hearing good words about him for months on end. I was more astute than before, and was ready to follow my next zerg-god, I didn't really like sAviOr, and was more of a fan of his genius, and after the meta-game caught up with him in 2007, his genius was more about different ways of getting more pussy than winning games anyhow. Jaedong reminded me of July of old, and realized that this kid had the ability to surpass both July and sAviOr.
What took me back, was the level of vitriol that came from fans from sAviOr in both Korean, and English communities. They would keep comparing Jaedong to a soulless machine, a product of this generic era, and relegate him to just a mindless spamming robot that had no magic in his play like sAviOr. It wouldn't matter if Jaedong was part of the evolution in ZvP by showcasing a optimized version of five hatchery play against Bisu in 2008, they wanted more mind-blowing meta-game revolutions from him. They would ask of him to overcome impossible map imbalance that would far surpass the imbalance faced in maps like Longinus. It was just unreasonable demands of religious extremists.
As a student of the zerg race, and an admirer of perfect zerg play, anybody with a sound mind could tell what sAviOr was doing past his prime was pure garbage compared to Jaedong from an objective point of view. The level of obnoxious, and extreme propaganda from these kind of fans simply wouldn't stop. It was the same for a lot of the Bisu fans as well. They wouldn't take any prisoners, and would just twist and turn any facts just to treat their idol as some kind of deity. I adopted Jaedong as my emotional replacement for July, who seemed to be broken beyond repair (both emotionally, and skill-wise), and started to appreciate the way in which Jaedong took the zerg race to a new level, albeit in a different manner to sAviOr, who seemed like a distant memory by then.
However, numerous sAviOr fans (there was a lot) would just reminisce about the past, and didn't care about the evolution of the zerg race that was taking part. They were not fans of the zerg race, but the fans of the drug-like elation they felt by supporting sAviOr. We all have that player. It was July for me. BoxeR for some. Bisu for others. However, I was able to overcome that by thinking it as a passing of the torch, from one legend to another. So many sAviOr fans were clouded by their fond memories of the past, and would actively distort the truth, ignoring what was happening right in front of their eyes. They were living in the past. I noticed, nobody really seemed to be doing the same for July, and he was being forgotten. All these, good looking, memorable players were having their legacy told again, and again, with a little more spice over time, and I began to resent the way their opinions would just grow stronger over time due to the sheer number and persistence of the fans.
There are a couple of players in that category, and while they earned it initially, I am kind of passionate in my attempt to ground some of the over-glorification of these kind of players. I tend to go for the hard hitting facts for Bisu more than anyone else, because, to be honest, his fans are some of the most obnoxious fans disjointed from reality. I actually think incredibly highly of Bisu, just not to the level his fans project him to be, and am forced to go a little further than I would under normal circumstances with statistics and putting his entire career under the microscope. Under such scrutiny, most players look worse than what is the consensus amongst the casual fans.
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On December 30 2016 22:02 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2016 12:35 Letmelose wrote:On December 29 2016 23:29 Foxxan wrote:
Wasnt july overrated actually? I mean, his gamestyle revolved alot around all-ins? If iloveoov and sAviOr are cases of players whose entire careers are basically built off being approximately three years ahead of their time in terms of strategy, July was the case of someone who built his career off having micromanagement tricks approximately two years ahead of his time. He first showcased mutalisk micromanagement against Ever)T(Byul on Xeno Sky in April 2004, a month or so before his meteoric rise to fame in Gillette OGN StarLeague. There are no available VODs of that game, so I'll just link some of the mutalisk micromagement he displayed in Gielltte OGN StarLeague. If you can understand Korean, you'll notice how the commentators are spazzing out over the mutalisk micromanagement, saying July looks like the best zerg ever, which is incredible considering he was a rookie. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvbb-yBmcbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V34qZmA2qmE The following VOD is the mutalisk micromanagement half a year before July popularized the mineral stacking technique for mutalisks on the very same map by SaferZerg. Notice the lack of stacking, and the lack of damage dealt by the mutalisks, which was common for its era. http://blog.naver.com/chldlfdnd123/100210473626Alongside his new revolutionary utilization of mutalisks that would change the match-up forever, he showcased some impeccable lurker-zergling micromanagement, to overcome top terrans such as XellOs and iloveoov for his debut OGN StarLeague title, which was the 1st OGN StarLeague won by a zerg player more than four years past its incarnation. Even one year past this, only July was able to use mutalisks to their maximum potential. GoRush, the second best zerg in this era (won YATGK MSL), known more for his strategical mind than pure mechanical ability, was unable to use mutalisks to the same degree. Notice how the difference in quality of how GoRush uses mutalisks to stop the terran death ball, and how July uses mutalisks to stop the terran death ball. 2005 ZvT games of GoRush (IOPS OGN StarLeague, EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXZzjjJv_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcuM_AtmT58 2005 ZvT game of July (EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzHK7GpTv8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhsE6wYPttg After the revolutionary discovery of the overlord stacking trick discovered by Shark (probably the most influential micromanagement discovery in the history of the game), the level of mutalisk micromanagement quickly caught up to July's standards, who used to manually stack his mutalisks, and still performed reasonably acceptable levels of mutalisk micromanagement even by today's standards. He was probably still the best mutalisk user in 2006 after the fast spread of the overlord stacking trick, as shown by the VOD below. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XESrk5z6iAc Notice how smooth he is able to perform compared to sAviOr, the best zerg player of 2006. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBrlQOZjUKk Due to the new method of mutalisk micromanagement, Jaedong was the superior mutalisk user by 2007, but July was the guy who represented mutalisks from 2004 to 2006. It's not just ZvT he influenced with his revolutionary mutalisk usage, he changed the landscape of ZvZ by making it a battle of mutalisk micromanagement, and making strategies such as zergling and scourge only compositions obsolete with urinating all over it with his mutalisk micromanagement. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6w6W15Cgsg Notice how GoRush thinks he has July with his mass scourge, only to be outclassed in almost every single manner with the micromanagement from July. GoRush at the time had a career ZvZ record of 60-32, and was considered as one of the best, if not the best, ZvZ masters of all time. July changed the entire landscape of ZvZ, by transforming it into the match-up with the highest level of importance for micromanagement. It's why players who had godlike micromanagement like Jaedong dominated ZvZ unlike the previous generation of ZvZ gods such as GoRush, ZergMaN who were not exactly famous for their micromanagement. It's not just mutalisks usage July is famous for. July also revolutionized the way zergs reacted to bunker rushes with his impeccable drone micro. Watch how YellOw, considered the greatest zerg of all time before July came along, reacted to the bunker rush of BoxeR in 2004. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI4U0daet3k BoxeR at the time had prepared this strategy with July, who was able to stop it during practice approximately half the time. Notice when BoxeR does this against July in a televised setting a couple of months later, July shows off a master class of how to stop a bunker rush. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kpXLkynnP4 Look how smoothly July is able to stop the rush with good placement, use of mineral stacking, and drone movement to stop the rush. If not for this particular technique created by July, terran would have been unstoppable with these rushes, as SCVs and drones, if they are just battling one another by attack moving, have huge disparities in battling capabilities. These are some of the legacies July left behind, without going into details about the difficulties outside of the game he had to face, the trophies and accolades he gathered throughout his career, and the times he spent as the absolute number one player of the entire scene. The assessment you gave July probably comes from the fact that July was outclassed in terms of skill, and needed to pull off something special in order to have major success in his final few years of Brood War. Remember, this was some random 15 year old kid, that was trying his luck in the professional scene in 2002. Can you imagine the change he went through by the time he was playing versus BeSt in 2008? He was playing the likes of IntoTheRain, ZeuS, and Kingdom when he was breaking out. Are you trying to judge him as a player three years after his prime? No other player in history gave me the chills quite like July was able to do. Even when he was almost outcast from the scene, had numerous inner turmoils that almost made him quit the game entirely, he came back, and won his well deserved Golden Mouse in 2008. You have no idea how infuriating it was to see this new wave of viewerbase who only just entered the scene, trying to paint this picture of July as a player based on their personal limited viewing experience. You can make light of his twilight years as a professional, when he was broken from all hardships he went through, but not when he was the shit. He was electrifying as a player, and probably would have gone on to achieve so much more if he had the looks of BoxeR, or Bisu. Still, being one of the four Golden Mouse winners in history, winning KT-KTF 2004/2005 Premier League (the tournament for the biggest overall prize pool in history), going to more OGN StarLeague finals than any other player in history, having the highest career ZvP win rate in history, and dragging his sponsorless, shitty team until they finally won a ProLeague championship are all things he can be proud of achieving. Objectively speaking? sAviOr achieved a little more, but that kid had the world handed to him, with the decent looks, never-ending adulation from his army of fans, godly mind for the game, sky high talent, and the team full of amazing practice partners and one of the most professional environments created in the Brood War realm. July had nothing. Literally nothing. But to achieve all those things, and being called overrated years later, that's the kind of stuff that'll make me roll in my grave. Great read, and I like and appreciate July, too. But one point of clarification: Didn't Boxer go to more OSL finals (6) than July did (5)? I think Fantasy is also tied with him at 5.
You are correct, I was thinking about how he had the most number of finals out of the Golden Mouse winners. Will edit the post.
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I believe you are correct, everything became bigger by the time Savior became OSL champion and the fanbase of players became pretty annoying. It became harder to discuss reasonably but it's a prize we have to pay for success. I have the same approach to Bisu's fans actually, i never forgot them how they called Flash a cheeser for years because he beautifuly cheesed Bisu on Monty Hall, actually out-cheesed him because the only reason Bisu had no answer was that he was himself going for some cheesy proxy.
To be honest, i was already annoyed by the Boxer fanbase from the first day of watching BW, since just like you i felt terran had such a big advantage especially against zergs (and it incredibly true on those old maps used by then) that i didn't see why he was getting that much love. Of course with time i was able to distance myself from it, discover his huge influence on how to play terran, how to micro, but at that time, my boy was the only zerg that could, Yellow. The way he tried proxy sunkens on Ragnarok against Boxer in the Coca cola finals made me an instant fan. That map was rightfully considered impossible for zergs at the time and he tried something impossible but at least he tried not to lose just like any other zergs. He was the real deal. Then for years, i had to deal with his many defeats. I still hurt when i think of his 0/2 ->3/2 defeat against Nada in KPGA 2nd tour, of his defeat against Oov, especially the U-Boat game which is a classic, and of course the wonderful finals against Xellos, one of the best finals ever in my eyes, even though he ended one again the bridesmaid. He won so many side/special leagues that i can't be mad at him. I still love that he won Snickers allstars, which was a very big event, coming down from 1/2 against Nada in the final, this was a great feeling, but this elusive OSL title... He came close once again so late in his career only to lose a close series in the semis to one match up wonder Casy, once again helped by a terran favored map pool..
His ability to adapt through different era is still underappreciated imo.
Chojja never impressed me, i don't know why. I never believed Junwi could do it.
July, i had no choice but to become a fan, i won't go into the details because you did it so much better, but i share what you felt.
When Gorush won his MSL, i felt he was going to dominate. His playstyle looked suddenly perfect, everything was coming in place. Then, Nada destroyed him mentally, while being 0/2 down, on the semi islands of dreams of Balae in a 45 minutes game where Gorush wasted many opportunities to win. He was never the same again. My hopes were crashed, but July made me feel better by winning the next OSL, against a terran to make it sweeter.
Then suddenly it became the age of IPXZerg. Chojja had a small time of his own, but clearly, that guy had something else. Seeing him rise to dominance was an incredible experience. It took a while but in the end, no one could argue with the facts: it wasn't a terran but a zerg who was the undisputed best player. No matter what you could throw at him, he looked immune. It didn't last of course because nothing does, especially in BW, but that was good.
Jaedong was, in a way, the last stop for zerg kings. I understand why you link him to July, his OSL wins have something in common with him, but he was already booked to be the future of zergs way before that. Remember he was in the dual tournament group with Savior, when Savior finally qualified for OSL and this group was considered group of death, with Casy and Sea in the mix.
Jaedong and his incredible, admirable ZVZ. Jaedong and the He Han Timing moment, Jaedong and his perfect muta micro that tear so many marines apart... The whole power outage story is really unfortunate for him because he was perfectly playing that game and he was really prepared for Flash but the controversy hurt him even though he had nothing to do with him. Still, he played some incredibly flawless games. No other zergs looked better than him afterwards, Calm, Soulkey, Luxury, Zero... they had their moments, but none managed to make it look so powerful, so inevitable again. The Tyrant was a great nickname for him.
I loved his rivalry with Flash, it was fun because i liked both players and it enjoyed every minute of their incredibly high level TVZ. BW is such a good game, i can still remember and savour all of this now, years after. Thanks you Letmelose
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Alright that was unexpected, i thought rain will crush everyone like he did to effort. Sadly his pvt is not good as i saw he has not much of an idea what to do against sea. Movie vs flash with the worst elevator ive seen, its like intentionally losing the edge of what you are trying to do. Honestly i expected more from the ro16, there were some really sloppy and unprofessional moments and i felt like ro.24 delivered better games. Guess this format give us such games, im sure ro8 will be awesome.
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On December 30 2016 21:26 ~chut~ wrote:
I was trying to find an old article about Daezang and the PVZ revolution he started, i thought Plexa made a TLFE abuot it, but i can't find it. Anyway, this thread is like a huge article about pro BW thanks to you and i'm keeping it in my favorite pages for sure !
Coincidently, i had stumbled upon that article just a couple of days ago, and had bookmarked it to actually watch the daezang matches when i had the time.
You probably couldn't find it cos the article is ostensibly about the 'Bisu build'
But here's the link http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/65389-bisu-exposé
*oh man all the vod links in it 404, and there's only 1 vod on tlpd, i'm so dissapointed 
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On December 30 2016 23:16 Letmelose wrote:
There are a couple of players in that category, and while they earned it initially, I am kind of passionate in my attempt to ground some of the over-glorification of these kind of players. I tend to go for the hard hitting facts for Bisu more than anyone else, because, to be honest, his fans are some of the most obnoxious fans disjointed from reality. I actually think incredibly highly of Bisu, just not to the level his fans project him to be, and am forced to go a little further than I would under normal circumstances with statistics and putting his entire career under the microscope. Under such scrutiny, most players look worse than what is the consensus amongst the casual fans.
I will preface this with the disclaimer, I am myself a giant Bisu fan. I also apologise for the incoming wall of text in advance.
I think all the players who have been glorified have generally earned it, they are incredible players. But people like to have narratives, they like to have a god to idolise rather than mere mortals, that's just a failing of fandoms in general.
Personally I think ALL the 'bonjwas', have been over-glorified. If you actually watch the vods of those iconic matches, the level of play is not just less impressive than it's made out to be, it's actually downright subpar by modern standards, even in the less professional post-kespa era. Yet the old Bonjwas, and the new TBLS and whatever else are still revered for their greatness, and I'm ok with this. Because it is clear, 'greatness', in the eyes of fans is not about objectively impressive play but about doing something the fans didn't think was previously possible. Players are great not because they were the best players ever, but because they did things that were amazing, exceptional and surprising at the time. They expanded the expectations of what could and couldn't be done, either through their innovation, their reading of the opponent, or through their sheer consistency and dominance over their competition.
Some great players, like July have fallen through the cracks. They did things that were frankly incredible and unexpected, and haven't gotten the credit they deserve. But I don't think it's fair to try and tear down the legacy of other great players who may have a disproportionate amount of glory.
There are players who deserve more credit, I don't think there are players that deserve less credit than they have + Show Spoiler +except Shine, fuck that guy, hydra busts are neither imaginative, entertaining nor hard to pull off
Which brings me to my final point. Bisu.
While I agree, certain parts of the fandom, who try to argue for 'bonjwa' status are deluded. Bisu was not remotely at that level of dominance, he never was, he never will be. In fact, the only person who could even be argued to have ever had that level of dominance after 03/03/07 is Flash. Jaedong had unfortunate timing, Bisu plays protoss.
Protoss: That last line wasn't a throw away whine about racial imbalance. I think it is at the core of why you find Bisu fans particularly 'obnixious and disjointed from reality'. It's not just that Bisu fans seem to apply the standards they hold great players poorly and inconsistently to Bisu. It's that standards to which Bisu are held to, are different to the standards to which other great players are held to are actually, objectively different, because he plays protoss.
Protoss have the closest 'favourable matchup' and the most oppressive 'unfavourable matchup'. Especially after the more defensive 'Flash Style' of TvP, Protoss are the race asked go out there and be aggressive and stop the other player from doing their thing in both matchups. This doesn't necessarily make the matchups harder, but it does make them less consistent.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uxz19.png)
Being aggressive is hard, playing against defenders advantage is inconsistent. You can guess wrong, every mistake you make, is a mistake that will cost you, because simply missing an opportunity is costly when you have to be aggressive. Out of necessity, you have to use builds that exploit a weakness that you expect your opponent's build to have cos you can't just let the game run it's course, and because of that, your own builds are particularly vulnerable to anything unexpected your opponent might do.
So expecting Bisu or Stork or Nal_ra or Jangbi or any protoss to have the sort of dominance that the original Bonjwa's had is... ludicrous. I agree putting up Bisu for bonjwahood is ridiculous, not only is he so ridiculously far from it that it's actually silly, it's also a terrible standard to apply to a top protoss in general. No protoss has ever been even remotely close to that level of dominance, dominance requires consistency, and top level protoss is by nature, inconsistent. We have no reason to believe any ever will or could achieve that, though we may live in hope of being proven wrong.
I think between the general acknowledgement that protoss is easier at low levels, and the general attitude that used to exist in Korean Pro BW of TvZ being the marquee matchup, and the best players on each side of that matchup were amazing, and protoss... was a also thing. Has made the standards through which most people who have an interest in Pro BW define greatness, and it is one that applies poorly to what protoss fans want to see from their greats. And so Bisu fans, a great majority of whom, I would hazard, are simply protoss fans. Use an entirely different standard to greatness, as they should.
What they want from their best players is hope. They want to see a level of play, if not sustained, at least hints at the possibility that one day, a protoss could have the same level of dominance as the great terran and zerg players of yore. They want to see gameplay that wows them, that makes them think of what could be. Bisu has produced by far the most of that.
Bisu is a flashy player, when he plays well, it looks IMPRESSIVE, people pay attention, people can see, just for a moment, the aura of greatness. This is a very rare thing from a protoss player indeed.
On top of that, many people say Bisu 'solved' PvZ with the Bisu Build. It hasn't. PvZ is pretty much as oppressive as ever. Bisu Build isn't the solution to PvZ, since pretty much 2007 the solution has been Bisu. Noone else has really built upon the Bisu build, taken it to new places. Every protoss looked to Bisu to define the entire PvZ metagame. When Bisu floundered, ridiculous builds like 4 gate goon bust appeared, but noone else ever found a successful standard from which to play PvZ at the highest level, they just do what Bisu does. He doesn't just define the modern PvZ meta, he IS the modern PvZ meta.
So I read the other thread where you compared Bisu to Stork, and statistically, Stork's career isn't THAT far from Bisu's, it is difficult to distinguish yourself in a field of inconsistency. But I think that's missing the point, and you know it. Bisu is considered a much greater player because he contributes. He provides the platform for modern PvZ, his peaks of performance provides the hope that protoss players are sorely lacking. While Stork provides fairly consistent wins for protoss, which is great, he does it primarily in the already favourable matchup, and not in a way that is particularly surprising or game defining.
To self importantly quote myself on the nature of greatness in BW:
'They expanded the expectations of what could and couldn't be done, either through their innovation, their reading of the opponent, or through their sheer consistency and dominance over their competition.'
I think this is the real reason why Bisu fans are so attached to Bisu, and no amount of statistics are going to sway them. He genuinely provides the hope that no other protoss player provides.
Edit: thx for the vod links
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EPT
