On January 01 2017 01:11 Freakling wrote: Armories at nat are standard in TvP. I was assuming that you build some depots at other bases (in fact you should do that for defensive wallins and optimizing worker pathing) and/or together with forward turrets to simcity defend on the mid ground. Other bases actually have quite a bit of building space, so you do not need to squeeze everything in your main. There is still wiggling room for wider gaps, Unless you want to place four factories side by side, half of them with machine shops and with a two tile gap in between each one of them, which I think you cannot do on any map (this would require space equivalent to one quarter across the map. No main has ever been that big, and a map like that would have a very small middle section because half the space would be taken up by just the mains...).
Also, you do not really need more than nine factories on three bases, I think...
Can you post a screenshot of your building setup or something like that?
Here you have it. I don't think there is too much improvement possible. Basically up to 11 Facs possble with terrible pathing to defend recalls on depots (with a clean base layout). And if you go for relative fast 4 bases, 11 Facs is totally reasonable. So it is possible, but for me good means something else.
3rd is the closest mineral only, 4th dunno really, probably the close high ground base, as it is wallable and you always have to defend the huge choke between 3rd and 4th anyways for your 3rd.
So you probably want to build some nice simcity of turrets and depots on the medium ground around your main to shield your tanks against Zealots rushing the high ground (against goons you already have some hefty high ground advantage. and your 4th/3rd gas (the high ground base) shields most of the backside of your main against Arbiter fly-bys (very similarly to FS, actually). There is also no reason not to wall the small backdoor ramp shut, which you probably need three depots for. You also want one depot (or turret) right below your mineral only CC to optimize mining rates.
So you probably only have half of your depots in your main, which frees a lot of space (you will definitely not need the group of depots below your mineral line, which really gets in the way of an efficient macro area), and you have a nice defensive parameter around it, which makes it hard for an opponent to attack your main directly. You also have the high ground base, which offers some additional building space in case you need it.
And with just four machine shops (which is probably the standard amount, rather than my "spam as many shops as fit in"-version, you also get some nice wide corridors between factories, as you want it.
(and in case building space remains an issue nonetheless, I could also add some more building space at the right side, bottom left corner and top left corner of that main. But since that would require me to retest the entire map for mining bugs, it is nothing I will try out today...)
Being able to build more than one turret between the 3rd and 4th or depots as part of a wall between nat and 3rd would certainly be nice, but I dunno if that goes against your intentions for the map. Personally, I would prefer to be able to fit everything into my main, if I have occupied all reasonable expansions in my corner. That's what a main should be for in my opinion.
On January 01 2017 03:56 Cryoc wrote: Being able to build more than one turret between the 3rd and 4th...
I think there are buildable spots to fit at least two... But granted, I can add more buildable ground in that area.
...or depots as part of a wall between nat and 3rd would certainly be nice,
You definitely can. Lots of them.
but I dunno if that goes against your intentions for the map.
Why would you as a player care about my intentions (my intentions are basically summed up like this: make a three player map that makes full use of all three terrain levels. Specifics like the ones we are discussing here are just flexible parameters that have nothing to do with the core concept). Of course I have certain balance considerations and expectations of how players will (want to) act to secure expansions and such, and Terran players wanting to build a nice turret/depot ring to secure the mid ground area, mineral only and high ground base is definitely one of the things I foresaw, so that is why I added enough building space to do that (on the other hand I did not want players to actually wall the ramp or Zerg to go absolutely crazy with sunken defence, so there is only a narrow buildable strip there).
Personally, I would prefer to be able to fit everything into my main, if I have occupied all reasonable expansions in my corner. That's what a main should be for in my opinion.
And inefficient use of space due to bulky buildings, coupled with relatively slow expansion progression, are part of how the terran race works. This is not really a map specific problem, few maps do actually allow you to comfortably build everything in your main. The 10 o'clock main has exactly the width needed to comfortably fit in an array of about 12 factories/gates (with a reasonable amount of shops/pylons) that fits into one f-hotkeyed screen.
Anyway, I'll put this down as a provisional to-do list: - add a bit more buildable area between mineral only and high ground exopansion. - extend the buildable space of the 10 o'clock main where possible.
Probably not many people online this evening, but maybe there will be some more opinions.
This is not a stable version/final release yet. There are a few mining bugs and I may do further changes. I'll give players a week to send me or post any complaints or suggestions they may have and will upload a final version at the beginning of next week.
On December 31 2016 10:31 BisuDagger wrote: Who qualifies: The selection of via a random drawing. After selecting a name, I will be verifying the following criteria: That you are A- and above ranked based on ICCUP standing. If you only play on Fish, but believe you are rated high enough to be A-rated please register. If your name is selected, my committee will research your credentials and make a determination on whether it is equivalent or above an A-rating. I will not share the details of this process, but I assure you it will be fair.
hey BisuDagger these words are nothing but lies. I'm writing this regarding Sugo[PaiN] aka U-Sugo[aLive] who is my teammate at Fish server. I've heard you denied his participation even though he sent u a sceenshoot proving he reached D rank on Fish. D rank D rank D rank D rank D rank D rank !!
Let me tell you this. Trutacz can hardly go beyond D, Dewalt is D, Lancer is E/D, eon is D and you dare deny him? Under what reasoning? Oh wait, I've heard u THINK he obrained it through some weird methods.
On December 31 2016 10:31 BisuDagger wrote: Who qualifies: The selection of via a random drawing. After selecting a name, I will be verifying the following criteria: That you are A- and above ranked based on ICCUP standing. If you only play on Fish, but believe you are rated high enough to be A-rated please register. If your name is selected, my committee will research your credentials and make a determination on whether it is equivalent or above an A-rating. I will not share the details of this process, but I assure you it will be fair.
hey BisuDagger these words are nothing but lies. I'm writing this regarding Sugo[PaiN] aka U-Sugo[aLive] who is my teammate at Fish server. I've heard you denied his participation even though he sent u a sceenshoot proving he reached D rank on Fish. D rank D rank D rank D rank D rank D rank !!
Let me tell you this. Trutacz can hardly go beyond D, Dewalt is D, Lancer is E/D, eon is D and you dare deny him? Under what reasoning? Oh wait, I've heard u THINK he obrained it through some weird methods.
So much for this 'fair committee' of yours.
I expected more of you.
How can someone be denied if sign ups haven't occured yet...
edit: whoever spoke to you has lied and made stuff up. I'd be concerned with who is saying this stuff.
On December 31 2016 10:31 BisuDagger wrote: Who qualifies: The selection of via a random drawing. After selecting a name, I will be verifying the following criteria: That you are A- and above ranked based on ICCUP standing. If you only play on Fish, but believe you are rated high enough to be A-rated please register. If your name is selected, my committee will research your credentials and make a determination on whether it is equivalent or above an A-rating. I will not share the details of this process, but I assure you it will be fair.
hey BisuDagger these words are nothing but lies. I'm writing this regarding Sugo[PaiN] aka U-Sugo[aLive] who is my teammate at Fish server. I've heard you denied his participation even though he sent u a sceenshoot proving he reached D rank on Fish. D rank D rank D rank D rank D rank D rank !!
Let me tell you this. Trutacz can hardly go beyond D, Dewalt is D, Lancer is E/D, eon is D and you dare deny him? Under what reasoning? Oh wait, I've heard u THINK he obrained it through some weird methods.
So much for this 'fair committee' of yours.
I expected more of you.
How can someone be denied if sign ups haven't occured yet...
edit: whoever spoke to you has lied and made stuff up. I'd be concerned with who is saying this stuff.
I guess I was being trolled horribly and I'm a moron clearly for falling into it.
Though - I guess that's why the responses sounded so ridiculous. lol
Thanks to bonyth for the defense though there goes that - whomever was trolling me I assume.
Step 1: Sign ups the 7th. LITERALLY anyone can sign up even if you aren't ranked high enough because I can't possibly moderate that Step 2: I randomly select 2 from the list using a random number generator using a min/max based on the number of participants Step 3: I verify the selected players are active on either ICCUP or FISH and then check their ranks to ensure they are good enough to play Step 4: Epic Fight Club Games
After being part of TL for so long, I have no reason to start ruining my reputation by making garbage decisions as previously suggested. I want this to be as far to everyone as possible and be lots of fun. Don't worry, I still appreciate you guys very much and thank you for being concerned about the players! <3
On January 05 2017 12:39 BisuDagger wrote: The selection process will be legit I promise.
Step 1: Sign ups the 7th. LITERALLY anyone can sign up even if you aren't ranked high enough because I can't possibly moderate that Step 2: I randomly select 2 from the list using a random number generator using a min/max based on the number of participants Step 3: I verify the selected players are active on either ICCUP or FISH and then check their ranks to ensure they are good enough to play Step 4: Epic Fight Club Games
After being part of TL for so long, I have no reason to start ruining my reputation by making garbage decisions as previously suggested. I want this to be as far to everyone as possible and be lots of fun. Don't worry, I still appreciate you guys very much and thank you for being concerned about the players! <3
In regards to maps, I did set out with a goal to have 4 foreign maps, but did not want to overwhelm the players with a lot of changes. The last map that would be considered is Crown and Scepter. Please vote and explain your choice so I can adjust accordingly.
Just a little reminder: I will finalize Reap the Storm tomorrow. This is literally your last chance to test out the map and suggest any changes you consider necessary. I will definitely not have the time to do any more edits any time soon after that.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UhTmXi4.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4849.jpg)
