Teamliquid.net's Bisudagger is proud to announce 2017's Teamliquid.net Fight Club series! The first rule in TL fight club, tell everyone! Each week, top foreign players will be pitted against each other in a battle of skill and honor. You can expect guest commentators, hilarious commentary, and insight from foreign players. Each week we will get to know our competitors better as we read questions answered by them throughout the cast. So take off your tie and ditch those loafers and start preparing yourself for battle!
Details:
The Fight Club series is something that found great success during the Wings of Liberty era of SC2. Former Starcraft 1 pro HyuN rose to fame by becoming an unbeatable juggernaut for fourteen weeks. Starting the event two players will be randomly selected from the pool of available players. Following the same format, each week a foreign ICCUP A-ranked player will be selected to compete against the reigning champion. Prizes and bounties will be awarded per tournament rules, giving players incentive to win more and cause upsets. None of the games will be played live so we can ensure an efficient and lag free cast. However, there may be special event live matches such as a staff fight club mini-series.
Who will play?
The next opponent will be selected through a raffle based on players who want to compete each week. Rank must be A- or higher. The two players are responsible for arranging and playing all 9 matches before each Tuesday’s cast and then supplying them to the event organizer, BisuDagger.
Starting length
Starting January 31st, there will be a recurring weekly Tuesday Fight Club series cast. Time of cast TBD. The event will last 10 weeks, but Fight Club will continue to run after 10 weeks until the bank runs out
Format
Signups to participate will be available the Wednesday morning following each cast. This will ensure the player selected from the list will be able to play the same week they are chosen to participate.
B09 will be played.
After each game, loser picks the map for the next game.
The maps available for picking are below. *No map can be played twice in a series.
Current amount: $300. Bank comes from BisuDagger's money earned by casting for AfreecaTV and money donated to his twitch stream. Additionally, BisuDagger will personally sponsor the Bonus/Bounty pool even if funds have run out that week.
Donations
Fight Club will go on past 10 weeks as long as there are enough continued donations to pay the players. Donations accepted here: www.paypal.com. Please write the word "Fight Club" in the details column. Regardless of any note, all money received to this account will be going towards this event.
Victory Prize
$30 prize to winner Bonus: $50 for winning 5 weeks in a row (Bounty Activated) Bounty: $35 defeating a player with a bounty activated
Cast:
Hosted by: BisuDagger The bo9 will be played ahead of cast in order to make the event run smoothly. The cast will be done by BisuDagger, but may include players or guest casters.
Sponsors:
Potential sponsors are being worked on. In the case that a sponsor signs on, the prize amount to the winner will increase.
Any parties interested in becoming a sponsor may contact BisuDagger personally
Very hyped to see this, only suggestion I have would be replacing Avalon as a map with Eddy 1.02 because the tileset is so much easier on the eyes. Not to mention it's a great foreign made map by Freakling which I've been enjoying testing as this weeks ICC motw!
Can't wait to see the best foreigners duke it out :D
I would second replacing Avalon. Not so much because of the tileset (which is more a matter of personal preference and monitor settings, I guess) or because I wouldn't like the concept, but because it actually has quite a lot of known bugs and positional imbalances that negatively impact gameplay.
I'd like to suggest the idea of trying out some actual new map instead.
On December 15 2016 00:45 B0stonSC wrote: Regarding the maps section, what is FS?
Fighting Spirit. Updated the OP.
Also, already liking the map suggestions. I would be more then happy to have 3 foreign maps in the pool. I'll setup some polls later to take votes, but your opinions/reasons on which one to add in is valued highly.
On December 15 2016 03:49 KatjaKean wrote: Awesome, more foreigner BW fun! Thanks for creating and sponsoring this league, BisuDagger!
So the winner of the match will always stay on to be challenged, like in a King of the Hill? Or only when available to play?
On a related note, could Scan compete in this? Also, has anyone heard anything about Sziky recently?
Scan is in Korea now and will not be allow in. (Sorry Scan! <3) Sziky is retired and plays some SC2 these days actually.
If the winner cannot compete the following week then a new player will be selected to take their place. They have a 6 days to make time with their competitor so I hope that is enough time.
On December 15 2016 03:49 KatjaKean wrote: Awesome, more foreigner BW fun! Thanks for creating and sponsoring this league, BisuDagger!
So the winner of the match will always stay on to be challenged, like in a King of the Hill? Or only when available to play?
On a related note, could Scan compete in this? Also, has anyone heard anything about Sziky recently?
Scan is in Korea now and will not be allow in. (Sorry Scan! <3) Sziky is retired and plays some SC2 these days actually.
If the winner cannot compete the following week then a new player will be selected to take their place. They have a 6 days to make time with their competitor so I hope that is enough time.
Thanks for the quick reply! Seems reasonable.
I'm very sad to hear that our Hungarian hero has fallen.
On December 15 2016 04:37 iMrising wrote: I'm not familiar with brood war. I do know that fighting spirit is a popular map. Is the ban to encourage other maps to be played?
Yes and god forbid I cast anymore Fighting Spirit games.
In regards to maps, if there are enough people on board im willing to take on a max of four foreign maps. They just need to be proven in balance. This is the only tournament where we get a chance to feature our map makers as well as players. Lets make sure we do that.
On December 15 2016 21:19 FlaShFTW wrote: I cant believe you didnt put me as a caster thats basically auto-included. Im definitely getting drunk for a couple of these casts.
You are invited to Fight Club if Flash loses 0-3 to Bisu.
Also, calling Sayle and Elegant, would love to have you two opening day for nostalgia sake.
Wow, hats off to Bisudagger for this. Anybody injecting fuel into the BW flame should really be thanked. It's really cool to see that people are way more willing to use foreign maps, as well, too. This was not the case during the Kespa days.
Thankyou very much for using foreign maps. My suggestion is to use the following:
-Crown And Sceptre (predictably) (Ive changed name from CardinalAllin). Its my best map imo. Ive updated to version 0.95 and I have nothing left on my list of things to do currently. Its very polished, more than any map Ive made before. Dont be fooled, version 0.95 is more than finished compared to most maps. http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=4849
While I think its cool you are already planning on using Queensbridge and Overwatch, I reckon the maps above are primed and ready to have their time in the spotlight.
Isn't winning for 5 weeks in a row for the bonus/bounty difficult to do? It seems really unlikely that it will happen (I have no idea about this sort of stuff, I'm just giving my opinion).
Maybe if it was lowered to 3 weeks and the bonus lowered to like $30, bounty reduced a bit, as well. Maybe even make like a Super Bonus/Super Bounty for like 5 or 6 weeks straight of victories. Idk just some thoughts.
On December 16 2016 00:12 BisuDagger wrote: Also, calling Sayle and Elegant, would love to have you two opening day for nostalgia sake.
This would be awesome. Did Elegant do anything BW related in the last couple of years? Havent heard anything from him since the days he casted with Sayle.
On December 16 2016 06:41 JungleTerrain wrote: Isn't winning for 5 weeks in a row for the bonus/bounty difficult to do? It seems really unlikely that it will happen (I have no idea about this sort of stuff, I'm just giving my opinion).
Maybe if it was lowered to 3 weeks and the bonus lowered to like $30, bounty reduced a bit, as well. Maybe even make like a Super Bonus/Super Bounty for like 5 or 6 weeks straight of victories. Idk just some thoughts.
Second this I think. 5 weeks is a very long time, especially if it will only run for about 10 weeks.
On December 16 2016 06:41 JungleTerrain wrote: Isn't winning for 5 weeks in a row for the bonus/bounty difficult to do? It seems really unlikely that it will happen (I have no idea about this sort of stuff, I'm just giving my opinion).
Maybe if it was lowered to 3 weeks and the bonus lowered to like $30, bounty reduced a bit, as well. Maybe even make like a Super Bonus/Super Bounty for like 5 or 6 weeks straight of victories. Idk just some thoughts.
Second this I think. 5 weeks is a very long time, especially if it will only run for about 10 weeks.
As donations come in before the event I may change this and would love to. Right now the bank is currently out of pocket and cannot be stretched further, but i have recieved donations from several people (thank you guys!). I will find a way to show the growing bank and before the event starts I will hopefully improve the rewards on top of extending the length of this event. Ideally: 15 weeks total, 3 week bounty/rewards, and winners pay at $50 per win would be my target goal.
On December 15 2016 21:19 FlaShFTW wrote: I cant believe you didnt put me as a caster thats basically auto-included. Im definitely getting drunk for a couple of these casts.
You are invited to Fight Club if Flash loses 0-3 to Bisu.
Also, calling Sayle and Elegant, would love to have you two opening day for nostalgia sake.
Welp guess im not going to be at fight club then cause flash is gonna wipe the floor with your pretty boy.
On December 16 2016 06:41 JungleTerrain wrote: Isn't winning for 5 weeks in a row for the bonus/bounty difficult to do? It seems really unlikely that it will happen (I have no idea about this sort of stuff, I'm just giving my opinion).
Maybe if it was lowered to 3 weeks and the bonus lowered to like $30, bounty reduced a bit, as well. Maybe even make like a Super Bonus/Super Bounty for like 5 or 6 weeks straight of victories. Idk just some thoughts.
Second this I think. 5 weeks is a very long time, especially if it will only run for about 10 weeks.
As donations come in before the event I may change this and would love to. Right now the bank is currently out of pocket and cannot be stretched further, but i have recieved donations from several people (thank you guys!). I will find a way to show the growing bank and before the event starts I will hopefully improve the rewards on top of extending the length of this event. Ideally: 15 weeks total, 3 week bounty/rewards, and winners pay at $50 per win would be my target goal.
Thanks for the response! good to hear. Thank you so much for funding!
On December 16 2016 06:41 JungleTerrain wrote: Isn't winning for 5 weeks in a row for the bonus/bounty difficult to do? It seems really unlikely that it will happen (I have no idea about this sort of stuff, I'm just giving my opinion).
Maybe if it was lowered to 3 weeks and the bonus lowered to like $30, bounty reduced a bit, as well. Maybe even make like a Super Bonus/Super Bounty for like 5 or 6 weeks straight of victories. Idk just some thoughts.
Second this I think. 5 weeks is a very long time, especially if it will only run for about 10 weeks.
As donations come in before the event I may change this and would love to. Right now the bank is currently out of pocket and cannot be stretched further, but i have recieved donations from several people (thank you guys!). I will find a way to show the growing bank and before the event starts I will hopefully improve the rewards on top of extending the length of this event. Ideally: 15 weeks total, 3 week bounty/rewards, and winners pay at $50 per win would be my target goal.
Thanks, that is good to hear, how much more do you need to do this?
On December 16 2016 06:41 JungleTerrain wrote: Isn't winning for 5 weeks in a row for the bonus/bounty difficult to do? It seems really unlikely that it will happen (I have no idea about this sort of stuff, I'm just giving my opinion).
Maybe if it was lowered to 3 weeks and the bonus lowered to like $30, bounty reduced a bit, as well. Maybe even make like a Super Bonus/Super Bounty for like 5 or 6 weeks straight of victories. Idk just some thoughts.
Second this I think. 5 weeks is a very long time, especially if it will only run for about 10 weeks.
As donations come in before the event I may change this and would love to. Right now the bank is currently out of pocket and cannot be stretched further, but i have recieved donations from several people (thank you guys!). I will find a way to show the growing bank and before the event starts I will hopefully improve the rewards on top of extending the length of this event. Ideally: 15 weeks total, 3 week bounty/rewards, and winners pay at $50 per win would be my target goal.
Thanks, that is good to hear, how much more do you need to do this?
Everything is already funded hes just taking donations to enlarge the prize pool
On December 16 2016 06:41 JungleTerrain wrote: Isn't winning for 5 weeks in a row for the bonus/bounty difficult to do? It seems really unlikely that it will happen (I have no idea about this sort of stuff, I'm just giving my opinion).
Maybe if it was lowered to 3 weeks and the bonus lowered to like $30, bounty reduced a bit, as well. Maybe even make like a Super Bonus/Super Bounty for like 5 or 6 weeks straight of victories. Idk just some thoughts.
Second this I think. 5 weeks is a very long time, especially if it will only run for about 10 weeks.
As donations come in before the event I may change this and would love to. Right now the bank is currently out of pocket and cannot be stretched further, but i have recieved donations from several people (thank you guys!). I will find a way to show the growing bank and before the event starts I will hopefully improve the rewards on top of extending the length of this event. Ideally: 15 weeks total, 3 week bounty/rewards, and winners pay at $50 per win would be my target goal.
Thanks, that is good to hear, how much more do you need to do this?
Everything is already funded hes just taking donations to enlarge the prize pool
He is refering to the fifteen week goal. Ill do the math and edit it in here.
On December 16 2016 06:41 JungleTerrain wrote: Isn't winning for 5 weeks in a row for the bonus/bounty difficult to do? It seems really unlikely that it will happen (I have no idea about this sort of stuff, I'm just giving my opinion).
Maybe if it was lowered to 3 weeks and the bonus lowered to like $30, bounty reduced a bit, as well. Maybe even make like a Super Bonus/Super Bounty for like 5 or 6 weeks straight of victories. Idk just some thoughts.
Second this I think. 5 weeks is a very long time, especially if it will only run for about 10 weeks.
As donations come in before the event I may change this and would love to. Right now the bank is currently out of pocket and cannot be stretched further, but i have recieved donations from several people (thank you guys!). I will find a way to show the growing bank and before the event starts I will hopefully improve the rewards on top of extending the length of this event. Ideally: 15 weeks total, 3 week bounty/rewards, and winners pay at $50 per win would be my target goal.
Thanks, that is good to hear, how much more do you need to do this?
Everything is already funded hes just taking donations to enlarge the prize pool
He is refering to the fifteen week goal. Ill do the math and edit it in here.
On December 16 2016 20:29 B0stonSC wrote: Wait, suppose that you got enough money from donations to keep this running permenantly. Would you keep running it?
My wife is having a baby in June, so i will personally need a break. If the donations keep coming and the event went well Fight Club would have a fall season or pickup in 2018. But im just focused on the initial goal right now.
On December 16 2016 20:29 B0stonSC wrote: Wait, suppose that you got enough money from donations to keep this running permenantly. Would you keep running it?
My wife is having a baby in June, so i will personally need a break. If the donations keep coming and the event went well Fight Club would have a fall season or pickup in 2018. But im just focused on the initial goal right now.
On December 16 2016 21:16 kogeT wrote: Have you considered the process of selecting the players that will participate?
Yes, I forgot to announce this portion. I'll put it together and update the OP. Rough short story I plan on taking registration for the first Fight Club event 3 weeks in advance. I will give registrants a week to sign up and that will leave two weeks to play the first bo9 and submit to me. Registration for each event following will be two weeks in advance and the announcement of the next opponent will be selected after each cast (so you are always registering to play two weeks out). Selection will use some sort of randomizer and then the person must be verified through iccup. Sound fair enough? We are fortunate enough to have the time to work this out as a community if anyone has better suggestions.
To support: 15 weeks at $50 prize ($750), 3 week bounty/bonuses (amounts remain the same as in OP) ($425 if every bounty/bonus is collected) it would total = $1175. $1175 - $300 (current bank) - $60 (already received donations) = $815 to cover the whole event.
On December 16 2016 23:31 kogeT wrote: Maybe you can just make a list of all interested players and let people vote which players they would like to see most?
So weekly poll of available players that can compete and let the community decide? I think that's a great idea. It will certainly reward the players who are most active and involved with TL. I would love to hear feedback from others on this idea.
edit: As 2pac mentions a couple posts down, this was the main reason why my original plan was created. I would like us to meet an array of A-ranked players known and unknown.
On December 17 2016 00:26 2Pacalypse- wrote: Doesn't seem that fair to less popular players. It shouldn't be a popularity contest imo.
i'll vote for some1 most ppl don't know, for compensation (;
But i agree with your sentiment. Just decide by lottery would be my solution . Make a list of players, write them down and draw two. Draw 1 more for each show, ezpz.
You could use the iccup rank ladder as well. Who has better rank in that week and haven't being pick before will be the chance to the challenger. I think that is fair to who is more active player and it will help to have players practicing/laddering and for that the games gonna be better.
I think the most important outcome of that are enjoyable high-level games that people will want to watch, so not sure if you should just randomize as last season there were easily 70-80 A- to A+ players. (and skill difference was big)
On December 17 2016 03:52 kogeT wrote: I think the most important outcome of that are enjoyable high-level games that people will want to watch, so not sure if you should just randomize as last season there were easily 70-80 A- to A+ players. (and skill difference was big)
If the list is big across "A" players "A- excluded", then "A"ranked players will have a much higher chance of being selected. The tournament extends to "A-" to ensure we have a new player available to play each week.
On December 17 2016 03:25 Comodore wrote: You could use the iccup rank ladder as well. Who has better rank in that week and haven't being pick before will be the chance to the challenger. I think that is fair to who is more active player and it will help to have players practicing/laddering and for that the games gonna be better.
I really like how this sounds, but again random gives a chance to any player to have that moment in the spotlight.
Also, if you are selected to play and lose, you will not be able to sign up again until the following season (assuming a second one happens).
You could use a weighed randomization, where a player is the more likely to be selected the higher he scores on the ladder. And maybe you could implement the public vote as a special feature in certain weeks, like every time a bounty is due, or just for the first match (or last, or half-time...)
On December 17 2016 00:26 2Pacalypse- wrote: Doesn't seem that fair to less popular players. It shouldn't be a popularity contest imo.
i'll vote for some1 most ppl don't know, for compensation (;
But i agree with your sentiment. Just decide by lottery would be my solution . Make a list of players, write them down and draw two. Draw 1 more for each show, ezpz.
My ears are burning, did someone say my name?
I can 'guest' cast if you ever need one more and I'm not at work.
On December 17 2016 04:39 Freakling wrote: You could use a weighed randomization, where a player is the more likely to be selected the higher he scores on the ladder. And maybe you could implement the public vote as a special feature in certain weeks, like every time a bounty is due, or just for the first match (or last, or half-time...)
The public vote will be used to determine which staff member plays in the next round of Staff Fight Club. Clearly the first bo3 will be played by v1 vs BigFan.
On December 17 2016 04:39 Freakling wrote: You could use a weighed randomization, where a player is the more likely to be selected the higher he scores on the ladder. And maybe you could implement the public vote as a special feature in certain weeks, like every time a bounty is due, or just for the first match (or last, or half-time...)
The public vote will be used to determine which staff member plays in the next round of Staff Fight Club. Clearly the first bo3 will be played by v1 vs BigFan.
On December 17 2016 00:26 2Pacalypse- wrote: Doesn't seem that fair to less popular players. It shouldn't be a popularity contest imo.
i'll vote for some1 most ppl don't know, for compensation (;
But i agree with your sentiment. Just decide by lottery would be my solution . Make a list of players, write them down and draw two. Draw 1 more for each show, ezpz.
My ears are burning, did someone say my name?
I can 'guest' cast if you ever need one more and I'm not at work.
On December 17 2016 00:26 2Pacalypse- wrote: Doesn't seem that fair to less popular players. It shouldn't be a popularity contest imo.
i'll vote for some1 most ppl don't know, for compensation (;
But i agree with your sentiment. Just decide by lottery would be my solution . Make a list of players, write them down and draw two. Draw 1 more for each show, ezpz.
My ears are burning, did someone say my name?
I can 'guest' cast if you ever need one more and I'm not at work.
Cam we have a comback?
I am very busy these days T_T I wish! We'll see over xmas break if I can try to play or not.
Any news on the map selection? People (viewers and players?) seem to want to switch out (4)Avalon for another map, with some of the suggestions being: (4)Eddy (3)Reap the Storm (4)Kiseyras etc.
P.S.: Maybe someone should make a Stripcraft event.
On December 19 2016 15:01 JungleTerrain wrote: Any news on the map selection? People (viewers and players?) seem to want to switch out (4)Avalon for another map, with some of the suggestions being: (4)Eddy (3)Reap the Storm (4)Kiseyras etc.
P.S.: Maybe someone should make a Stripcraft event.
just throwing in my 2 cents. I really like Avalon. I would like it to stay in. But I am mostly unfamiliar with the other maps mentioned so that doesn't really mean much coming from me.
... there is a complete lack of a reverse map and a relative lack of three player maps in the current pool...
That is a good point, there should probably be a couple. 3 v 4 or 2 player maps I feel like doesnt matter as much though. I'm a noob though so I don't know much. diversity is definitely good though
As you mention, A- and higher only, will there be a bypass for someone who fish ladders only?
For example, someone who gets D on Fish is even higher than Olympic in icc standards. If a player like that shows proof, can he play?
I'm assuming that such respect would be shown to players who play fish and don't waste time on icc.
I suppose you might be one of the exceptions, but here you are. Certainly u're capable of killing even very top foreigners, yet you are not so known for your skill. So in regards of Fish server, anyone who gets, let's say, at least 1300 points at Fish (which is middle E rank) should be considered as a player of great skill.
As you mention, A- and higher only, will there be a bypass for someone who fish ladders only?
For example, someone who gets D on Fish is even higher than Olympic in icc standards. If a player like that shows proof, can he play?
I'm assuming that such respect would be shown to players who play fish and don't waste time on icc.
I suppose you might be one of the exceptions, but here you are. Certainly u're capable of killing even very top foreigners, yet you are not so known for your skill. So in regards of Fish server, anyone who gets, let's say, at least 1300 points at Fish (which is middle E rank) should be considered as a player of great skill.
Actually - In my opinion, someone who can even maintain 1175 over, let's say, 40 games even, should be allowed.
Obvioulsy it's hard to set a strict rule - but as you know, Bonyth, 1300 is FAR FAR greater than A- in iccup terms.
That will be up to admins to decide and figure out a fair ruling. But in all actuality, maintaining 1000 on fish over 50 games is probably A- lol. Anyways, this isn't meant to be a discussion on icc to fish translation so let's not go into that argument.
Registration Registration for the first Fight Club begins January 7th. There will be a separate news thread created to remind everyone. Selection for the first two contenders will be announced on the 17th.
Who qualifies: The selection of via a random drawing. After selecting a name, I will be verifying the following criteria: That you are A- and above ranked based on ICCUP standing. If you only play on Fish, but believe you are rated high enough to be A-rated please register. If your name is selected, my committee will research your credentials and make a determination on whether it is equivalent or above an A-rating. I will not share the details of this process, but I assure you it will be fair.
Map Rules: To be clear, a map can only be played once. Reigning champion always picks the first map. The loser after each game picks a new map from the list below. Please share your thoughts on the changes.
On December 31 2016 10:31 BisuDagger wrote: Registration Registration for the first Fight Club begins January 7th. There will be a separate news thread created to remind everyone. Selection for the first two contenders will be announced on the 17th.
Who qualifies: The selection of via a random drawing. After selecting a name, I will be verifying the following criteria: That you are A- and above ranked based on ICCUP standing. If you only play on Fish, but believe you are rated high enough to be A-rated please register. If your name is selected, my committee will research your credentials and make a determination on whether it is equivalent or above an A-rating. I will not share the details of this process, but I assure you it will be fair.
Map Rules: To be clear, a map can only be played once. Reigning champion always picks the first map. The loser after each game picks a new map from the list below. Please share your thoughts on the changes.
Change: Avalon out, (3)Reap the Storm in Eye of the Storm, Demian in Queensbridge 1.3 (foreign map) out, Kiseyras in
Sad to see Avalon go. Other than that though, everything looks great. Super excited for these games to get under way! Thanks again for organizing all of this!
Registration Registration for the first Fight Club begins January 7th. There will be a separate news thread created to remind everyone. Selection for the first two contenders will be announced on the 17th.
Who qualifies: The selection of via a random drawing. After selecting a name, I will be verifying the following criteria: That you are A- and above ranked based on ICCUP standing. If you only play on Fish, but believe you are rated high enough to be A-rated please register. If your name is selected, my committee will research your credentials and make a determination on whether it is equivalent or above an A-rating. I will not share the details of this process, but I assure you it will be fair.
Map Rules: To be clear, a map can only be played once. Reigning champion always picks the first map. The loser after each game picks a new map from the list below. Please share your thoughts on the changes.
Change: Avalon out, (3)Reap the Storm in Eye of the Storm out, Demian in Queensbridge 1.3 (foreign map) out, Kiseyras in
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason the mains on (3)Reap the Storm are so tiny? I mean especially on 10 o'clock as T you can just barely fit 9 facs and all the other stuff in, if you align everything very neatly.
Registration Registration for the first Fight Club begins January 7th. There will be a separate news thread created to remind everyone. Selection for the first two contenders will be announced on the 17th.
Who qualifies: The selection of via a random drawing. After selecting a name, I will be verifying the following criteria: That you are A- and above ranked based on ICCUP standing. If you only play on Fish, but believe you are rated high enough to be A-rated please register. If your name is selected, my committee will research your credentials and make a determination on whether it is equivalent or above an A-rating. I will not share the details of this process, but I assure you it will be fair.
Map Rules: To be clear, a map can only be played once. Reigning champion always picks the first map. The loser after each game picks a new map from the list below. Please share your thoughts on the changes.
Change: Avalon out, (3)Reap the Storm in Eye of the Storm out, Demian in Queensbridge 1.3 (foreign map) out, Kiseyras in
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason the mains on (3)Reap the Storm are so tiny? I mean especially on 10 o'clock as T you can just barely fit 9 facs and all the other stuff in, if you align everything very neatly.
??!
(and this is assuming that you build nothing at any other base and lift and keep all buildings landed, which is not realistic ; also, by that point you are most definitely mined out in your main which gives you space for at least 2 more factories, at least four if you also lift your CC out to another expansion.)
Or just open a picture of FS, CB, Demian, Aztec or any other standard map and compare the main sizes, you will realize that this is pretty normal.
Registration Registration for the first Fight Club begins January 7th. There will be a separate news thread created to remind everyone. Selection for the first two contenders will be announced on the 17th.
Who qualifies: The selection of via a random drawing. After selecting a name, I will be verifying the following criteria: That you are A- and above ranked based on ICCUP standing. If you only play on Fish, but believe you are rated high enough to be A-rated please register. If your name is selected, my committee will research your credentials and make a determination on whether it is equivalent or above an A-rating. I will not share the details of this process, but I assure you it will be fair.
Map Rules: To be clear, a map can only be played once. Reigning champion always picks the first map. The loser after each game picks a new map from the list below. Please share your thoughts on the changes.
Change: Avalon out, (3)Reap the Storm in Eye of the Storm out, Demian in Queensbridge 1.3 (foreign map) out, Kiseyras in
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason the mains on (3)Reap the Storm are so tiny? I mean especially on 10 o'clock as T you can just barely fit 9 facs and all the other stuff in, if you align everything very neatly.
??!
(and this is assuming that you build nothing at any other base and lift and keep all buildings landed, which is not realistic ; also, by that point you are most definitely mined out in your main which gives you space for at least 2 more factories, at least four if you also lift your CC out to another expansion.)
Or just open a picture of FS, CB, Demian, Aztec or any other standard map and compare the main sizes, you will realize that this is pretty normal.
I am talking main only without ebay and barracks, recall defense, one two tile gap between your factories to be able to defend recalls better and the correct number of depots (last time I checked T needed 22 on 3 bases for 200 supply, not 14). You also outsourced Academy and armories in your picture. And you certainly can fulfill those conditions, but you better never misplace a depot in the heat of a batttle or you get yourself screwed later on. In FS the bases are at the corner, so you don't need to leave a gap to one side and you can outsource most of the recall defense. Demian I have too little experience to comment about but Aztec is an equally terrible map in that regard, but there you can atleast build supply depots at the high ground of the nat+3rd base because everything is buildable. Here you cannot even do that.
Armories at nat are standard in TvP. I was assuming that you build some depots at other bases (in fact you should do that for defensive wallins and optimizing worker pathing) and/or together with forward turrets to simcity defend on the mid ground. Other bases actually have quite a bit of building space, so you do not need to squeeze everything in your main. There is still wiggling room for wider gaps, Unless you want to place four factories side by side, half of them with machine shops and with a two tile gap in between each one of them, which I think you cannot do on any map (this would require space equivalent to one quarter across the map. No main has ever been that big, and a map like that would have a very small middle section because half the space would be taken up by just the mains...).
Also, you do not really need more than nine factories on three bases, I think...
Can you post a screenshot of your building setup or something like that?
On January 01 2017 01:11 Freakling wrote: Armories at nat are standard in TvP. I was assuming that you build some depots at other bases (in fact you should do that for defensive wallins and optimizing worker pathing) and/or together with forward turrets to simcity defend on the mid ground. Other bases actually have quite a bit of building space, so you do not need to squeeze everything in your main. There is still wiggling room for wider gaps, Unless you want to place four factories side by side, half of them with machine shops and with a two tile gap in between each one of them, which I think you cannot do on any map (this would require space equivalent to one quarter across the map. No main has ever been that big, and a map like that would have a very small middle section because half the space would be taken up by just the mains...).
Also, you do not really need more than nine factories on three bases, I think...
Can you post a screenshot of your building setup or something like that?
Here you have it. I don't think there is too much improvement possible. Basically up to 11 Facs possble with terrible pathing to defend recalls on depots (with a clean base layout). And if you go for relative fast 4 bases, 11 Facs is totally reasonable. So it is possible, but for me good means something else.
3rd is the closest mineral only, 4th dunno really, probably the close high ground base, as it is wallable and you always have to defend the huge choke between 3rd and 4th anyways for your 3rd.
So you probably want to build some nice simcity of turrets and depots on the medium ground around your main to shield your tanks against Zealots rushing the high ground (against goons you already have some hefty high ground advantage. and your 4th/3rd gas (the high ground base) shields most of the backside of your main against Arbiter fly-bys (very similarly to FS, actually). There is also no reason not to wall the small backdoor ramp shut, which you probably need three depots for. You also want one depot (or turret) right below your mineral only CC to optimize mining rates.
So you probably only have half of your depots in your main, which frees a lot of space (you will definitely not need the group of depots below your mineral line, which really gets in the way of an efficient macro area), and you have a nice defensive parameter around it, which makes it hard for an opponent to attack your main directly. You also have the high ground base, which offers some additional building space in case you need it.
And with just four machine shops (which is probably the standard amount, rather than my "spam as many shops as fit in"-version, you also get some nice wide corridors between factories, as you want it.
(and in case building space remains an issue nonetheless, I could also add some more building space at the right side, bottom left corner and top left corner of that main. But since that would require me to retest the entire map for mining bugs, it is nothing I will try out today...)
Being able to build more than one turret between the 3rd and 4th or depots as part of a wall between nat and 3rd would certainly be nice, but I dunno if that goes against your intentions for the map. Personally, I would prefer to be able to fit everything into my main, if I have occupied all reasonable expansions in my corner. That's what a main should be for in my opinion.
On January 01 2017 03:56 Cryoc wrote: Being able to build more than one turret between the 3rd and 4th...
I think there are buildable spots to fit at least two... But granted, I can add more buildable ground in that area.
...or depots as part of a wall between nat and 3rd would certainly be nice,
You definitely can. Lots of them.
but I dunno if that goes against your intentions for the map.
Why would you as a player care about my intentions (my intentions are basically summed up like this: make a three player map that makes full use of all three terrain levels. Specifics like the ones we are discussing here are just flexible parameters that have nothing to do with the core concept). Of course I have certain balance considerations and expectations of how players will (want to) act to secure expansions and such, and Terran players wanting to build a nice turret/depot ring to secure the mid ground area, mineral only and high ground base is definitely one of the things I foresaw, so that is why I added enough building space to do that (on the other hand I did not want players to actually wall the ramp or Zerg to go absolutely crazy with sunken defence, so there is only a narrow buildable strip there).
Personally, I would prefer to be able to fit everything into my main, if I have occupied all reasonable expansions in my corner. That's what a main should be for in my opinion.
And inefficient use of space due to bulky buildings, coupled with relatively slow expansion progression, are part of how the terran race works. This is not really a map specific problem, few maps do actually allow you to comfortably build everything in your main. The 10 o'clock main has exactly the width needed to comfortably fit in an array of about 12 factories/gates (with a reasonable amount of shops/pylons) that fits into one f-hotkeyed screen.
Anyway, I'll put this down as a provisional to-do list: - add a bit more buildable area between mineral only and high ground exopansion. - extend the buildable space of the 10 o'clock main where possible.
Probably not many people online this evening, but maybe there will be some more opinions.
This is not a stable version/final release yet. There are a few mining bugs and I may do further changes. I'll give players a week to send me or post any complaints or suggestions they may have and will upload a final version at the beginning of next week.
On December 31 2016 10:31 BisuDagger wrote: Who qualifies: The selection of via a random drawing. After selecting a name, I will be verifying the following criteria: That you are A- and above ranked based on ICCUP standing. If you only play on Fish, but believe you are rated high enough to be A-rated please register. If your name is selected, my committee will research your credentials and make a determination on whether it is equivalent or above an A-rating. I will not share the details of this process, but I assure you it will be fair.
hey BisuDagger these words are nothing but lies. I'm writing this regarding Sugo[PaiN] aka U-Sugo[aLive] who is my teammate at Fish server. I've heard you denied his participation even though he sent u a sceenshoot proving he reached D rank on Fish. D rank D rank D rank D rank D rank D rank !!
Let me tell you this. Trutacz can hardly go beyond D, Dewalt is D, Lancer is E/D, eon is D and you dare deny him? Under what reasoning? Oh wait, I've heard u THINK he obrained it through some weird methods.
On December 31 2016 10:31 BisuDagger wrote: Who qualifies: The selection of via a random drawing. After selecting a name, I will be verifying the following criteria: That you are A- and above ranked based on ICCUP standing. If you only play on Fish, but believe you are rated high enough to be A-rated please register. If your name is selected, my committee will research your credentials and make a determination on whether it is equivalent or above an A-rating. I will not share the details of this process, but I assure you it will be fair.
hey BisuDagger these words are nothing but lies. I'm writing this regarding Sugo[PaiN] aka U-Sugo[aLive] who is my teammate at Fish server. I've heard you denied his participation even though he sent u a sceenshoot proving he reached D rank on Fish. D rank D rank D rank D rank D rank D rank !!
Let me tell you this. Trutacz can hardly go beyond D, Dewalt is D, Lancer is E/D, eon is D and you dare deny him? Under what reasoning? Oh wait, I've heard u THINK he obrained it through some weird methods.
So much for this 'fair committee' of yours.
I expected more of you.
How can someone be denied if sign ups haven't occured yet...
edit: whoever spoke to you has lied and made stuff up. I'd be concerned with who is saying this stuff.
On December 31 2016 10:31 BisuDagger wrote: Who qualifies: The selection of via a random drawing. After selecting a name, I will be verifying the following criteria: That you are A- and above ranked based on ICCUP standing. If you only play on Fish, but believe you are rated high enough to be A-rated please register. If your name is selected, my committee will research your credentials and make a determination on whether it is equivalent or above an A-rating. I will not share the details of this process, but I assure you it will be fair.
hey BisuDagger these words are nothing but lies. I'm writing this regarding Sugo[PaiN] aka U-Sugo[aLive] who is my teammate at Fish server. I've heard you denied his participation even though he sent u a sceenshoot proving he reached D rank on Fish. D rank D rank D rank D rank D rank D rank !!
Let me tell you this. Trutacz can hardly go beyond D, Dewalt is D, Lancer is E/D, eon is D and you dare deny him? Under what reasoning? Oh wait, I've heard u THINK he obrained it through some weird methods.
So much for this 'fair committee' of yours.
I expected more of you.
How can someone be denied if sign ups haven't occured yet...
edit: whoever spoke to you has lied and made stuff up. I'd be concerned with who is saying this stuff.
I guess I was being trolled horribly and I'm a moron clearly for falling into it.
Though - I guess that's why the responses sounded so ridiculous. lol
Thanks to bonyth for the defense though there goes that - whomever was trolling me I assume.
Step 1: Sign ups the 7th. LITERALLY anyone can sign up even if you aren't ranked high enough because I can't possibly moderate that Step 2: I randomly select 2 from the list using a random number generator using a min/max based on the number of participants Step 3: I verify the selected players are active on either ICCUP or FISH and then check their ranks to ensure they are good enough to play Step 4: Epic Fight Club Games
After being part of TL for so long, I have no reason to start ruining my reputation by making garbage decisions as previously suggested. I want this to be as far to everyone as possible and be lots of fun. Don't worry, I still appreciate you guys very much and thank you for being concerned about the players! <3
On January 05 2017 12:39 BisuDagger wrote: The selection process will be legit I promise.
Step 1: Sign ups the 7th. LITERALLY anyone can sign up even if you aren't ranked high enough because I can't possibly moderate that Step 2: I randomly select 2 from the list using a random number generator using a min/max based on the number of participants Step 3: I verify the selected players are active on either ICCUP or FISH and then check their ranks to ensure they are good enough to play Step 4: Epic Fight Club Games
After being part of TL for so long, I have no reason to start ruining my reputation by making garbage decisions as previously suggested. I want this to be as far to everyone as possible and be lots of fun. Don't worry, I still appreciate you guys very much and thank you for being concerned about the players! <3
In regards to maps, I did set out with a goal to have 4 foreign maps, but did not want to overwhelm the players with a lot of changes. The last map that would be considered is Crown and Scepter. Please vote and explain your choice so I can adjust accordingly.
Just a little reminder: I will finalize Reap the Storm tomorrow. This is literally your last chance to test out the map and suggest any changes you consider necessary. I will definitely not have the time to do any more edits any time soon after that.
added more usable building space to 10 o'clock main
added more building space for turrets and such on the mid ground between mineral only and high ground third
some cosmetic updates
plus a rather unholy amount of what may look like random changes because technically they are just random changes, whereas what they actually are is a highly sophisticated military training course to sober up all those funky workers who could not find their proper way home to the nearest town hall after, I assume, having had a bit too much of their drugs... you know, whatever that stuff is they label as "minerals"...
EPT
HyuN rose to fame by becoming an unbeatable juggernaut for fourteen weeks. Starting the event two players will be randomly selected from the pool of available players. Following the same format, each week a foreign ICCUP A-ranked player will be selected to compete against the reigning champion. Prizes and bounties will be awarded per tournament rules, giving players incentive to win more and cause upsets. None of the games will be played live so we can ensure an efficient and lag free cast. However, there may be special event live matches such as a staff fight club mini-series.
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Outsider
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