You guys forget how awesome Iris Irrad rush was... LOL -_-;;
I still think there are plenty of new answers in SC for Savior.
But for now, I am totally enjoying the Savior Show.

SC is a one man show atm and it's sick. Disgusting.

tfeign

United States2980 Posts

February 26 2007 18:12 GMT

#1662

On February 25 2007 16:25 Tien wrote:
I've been following since 2002 and its been 3 to almost 4 years of seeing my favourite zerg players, HOT-forever, yellow, and chojja get decimated time and time again.

2006 and 2007 is a good year.

Much thanks to Julyzerg, Gorush, and savior.

Those 3 guys in the past 2 years have changed the zerg progaming scene.

2006 and 2007 really didn't have anything to do with Julyzerg and Gorush. They were 2004-2005. 2006&on was ChoJJa and savior.

FakeSteve[TPR]

Valhalla18444 Posts

February 26 2007 21:58 GMT

#1663

On February 27 2007 02:16 SuperJongMan wrote:
You guys forget how awesome Iris Irrad rush was... LOL -_-;;
I still think there are plenty of new answers in SC for Savior.
But for now, I am totally enjoying the Savior Show.

SC is a one man show atm and it's sick. Disgusting.

that hitch hiker game was the most brutal beating savior has ever taken

Tien

Russian Federation4447 Posts

February 27 2007 01:36 GMT

#1664

On February 27 2007 03:12 tfeign wrote:

Show nested quote +

2006 and 2007 really didn't have anything to do with Julyzerg and Gorush. They were 2004-2005. 2006&on was ChoJJa and savior.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the input.

Glad to see you're still alive in this forums.

Sadist

United States7325 Posts

February 27 2007 02:21 GMT

#1665

obviously if you took consume away you wouldnt leave swarm at 100, you could make it 75 like storm, and make plague 100 or something. The reason ive said its broken is because it is when they are used to potential. Savior has instant defense where ever he wants and terran basically can do nothing. True a lot of it has to do with his excellence in other areas, but dont dismiss this as just an idea thats been thought of right now. Ive said for years that once zergs learn how to use defilers effectively vs terran there is going to be a lot of troule for tvz, savior is just the first to really utilize them well.

Good thing hes the only one too

gg_hertzz

2152 Posts

February 27 2007 03:43 GMT

#1666

seems to me that if defiler is savior's trump card, then the best window for victory for terrans is to do as much damage as possible before hive tech. easier said than done i know.

rel

Guam3521 Posts

February 27 2007 04:01 GMT

#1667

Which is why, I think the best Terran's or I guess I should say "styles" are of that of Boxer, Casy, and apparently the way Iris was playing.

Gandalf

Pakistan1905 Posts

February 27 2007 04:51 GMT

#1668

I want to comment on the Reverse Temple game, specifically about when Nada lost an ass load of marines and some tanks to three lurkers doing no damage.

There has been speculation that Nadas comsat was destroyed, but this definitely isn't shown in the VOD. The comsat in Nadas main is shown both before and after the horrendous loss of units to three lurkers, so we know for sure that at least that comsat was working. The comsat at Nadas expansion, on the other hand, was not shown.

Furthermore, when a person attempts to take on lurkers with a mm/tank force, he stims and attacks, spreading his marines as necessary. Theres no point in scanning lurkers, then just sitting in their range and dying, is there? Even if the comsat was broken and Nada was unaware of that, his marines should have stimmed and been in an attack position. That wasnt so. It was obvious he had attacked move to point X, and to point X is where his army went, and when the three lurkers burrowed in range, they wrecked havoc, simply because Nada was preoccupied with saving his bases.

What I think is that Savior made Nada micro in two places at once, and he made it so that any deficiency in micro would hurt Nada more. I've always considered Terran to demand the most micro, and Terran to suffer the greatest damage from poor micro (correct me if I'm wrong because I'm no pro). I'm not saying that zerg isnt a micro intensive race or that Savior isnt supremely proficient at micro, only that he augmented these abilities by exploiting a relative weakness of Terran. Again, this isnt a proclamation of imbalance, because all races have weak and strong points.

Brutalisk

794 Posts

February 27 2007 10:42 GMT

#1669

@Sadist: there is no need to change anything. a) you'd risk making the game more imbalanced by changing anything (consider the potential impact even small changes have on other matchups/strategies/everything else), b) Terrans have ruled far too long, the race distribution in korea at the top was like T>Z>P (and still is, I guess), and Savior is just ONE Zerg that plays so well versus the usual top Terrans like Nada, Midas, Casy, Oov, Boxer etc.

One could say that on pro level, TvZ always favors T and is therefor imbalanced. Even the maps are often pro-terran (although this is no fault of the map makers I guess, it's just because terran can play on all maps pretty much the same, they don't need many expansions and high ground and narrow passages always favor them and disfavor the others. If you design an "interesting" map, it's probably pro terran, at least a bit.

And now there's ONE zerg player who is so good he wins despite all this, and people come up with "omg defilers are so imbalanced" and the like. I don't really get it... no Zerg player comes up with "omg m&m are so imbalanced" for example, and they really could do that, considering that this unit combination is so effective in this matchup.
And even if you're a terran fanboy, you probably wouldn't like a future where there are almost all finals played as TvT and all top korean gamers are T as well. There was a need to change all that, and that's what's happening right now. Savior (and July, I guess) showed that Zerg can be considered equal to Terran on the highest level. They *returned the balance* to the game. Of course, I'm talking about their level, on a lower level the balance is there anyway.

Now the only thing that's missing is a rise of the Protoss. Maybe Garimto will help there (when can we expect some games from him, btw?), but I somehow doubt it.

Ilikestarcraft

Korea (South)17733 Posts

February 27 2007 10:52 GMT

#1670

On February 27 2007 03:12 tfeign wrote:

Show nested quote +

2006 and 2007 really didn't have anything to do with Julyzerg and Gorush. They were 2004-2005. 2006&on was ~~chojja~~ and savior.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

February 27 2007 10:53 GMT

#1671

good post Gandalf.

@sadist: I highly disagree. Even with top notch defiler usage Zergs still have a ton of problems vs great Terrans. Namely the impending vessel cloud that rocks everything. The fact that Nada lost 3 units to lurkers was more of the fact he wasn't microing well as opposed to Savior's awesome dark swarms. Combine it with the fact that it abuses SK Terran whores and it's no damn wonder it looks so good. The ONLY thing remotely unfair about it is Tanks cant hurt lurkers under it. Other than that it does not give Zerg instant defense vs Terran. Every building can still be smacked and every unit other than a lurker is still killable w/o Vessels. If anything it's actually one of the reasons Zergs can handle a late game Terran ball.

Person514cs

1004 Posts

February 27 2007 18:00 GMT

#1672

After the vessels are plaged, repair them.
But the noob terrans never learn.

LemOn

United Kingdom8629 Posts

February 27 2007 18:46 GMT

#1673

So why havent you been in semis person?

Highways

Australia6105 Posts

February 27 2007 19:19 GMT

#1674

Anyone else notice savior researches the defiler energy upgrade? In late game his defiler swarms and plagues at the same time before consuming again.

Loveletter

United States543 Posts

February 27 2007 19:36 GMT

#1675

When wil a player show that Protoss is balanced along with terran and zerg

Luhh

Sweden2974 Posts

February 27 2007 21:00 GMT

#1676

On February 28 2007 04:36 Loveletter wrote:
When wil a player show that Protoss is balanced along with terran and zerg

Protoss players have already proven that they're balanced as far as terran goes, apart from a few maps where either toss or more seldom terran dominates.

Protoss must learn how to not waste units and get archons from most HT if it was used for storm plus guess correct early game and incorporate reaver late game, and not get suckerpunched by crackling drops. Easy as goblin pie!