ToT)Mondragon( banned on playday 4: As squadleader he initiated offense against oG), disrespected admin-order to stop it and now eventually has to account for that with an 1 playday ban penalty.
Penalty points +6 oGaming (Acc Sharing oG)Jang <-> Sea.Firefist) oG)Jang banned on playdays: 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8. Firefist banned for playdays: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 (whole season).
At least I can have peace with this, though the banning of mondragon is kinda farfetched, they should've banned strafe, but he's not even in the roster, but whatever.
What is this about? oG and ToT had a cw that went into a flamewar or something? Tried to check the ToT page real quick for any news, but didnt see anything. Neither have i see anything around here about anything like this that i can remember.
On November 16 2005 09:36 MaGnIfIcA wrote: What is this about? oG and ToT had a cw that went into a flamewar or something? Tried to check the ToT page real quick for any news, but didnt see anything. Neither have i see anything around here about anything like this that i can remember.
iG is REALLY and now I mean REALLY lucky with this decision ^^ having already beat the 2 strongest teams, ToT/mYm and now not having to play oG) with their koreans ^^
dissy did not initiate and dissy even banned strafe from the channel / told em to stop. Aside from that i think this is reasonable. Banning oG is to harsh but this is sizeable. Does oG's koreans know not to do this in the future? Cause like we discussed, in their eyes this wasnt abuse or some kinda scam koreans do this all the time in their own league (not sure with what intent).
Even if it was a random employee of the Coca Cola company who commits offense, The CEO of the Coca Cola company is always accountable that employee's action. It is a professional league, so you need a professional mind.
Furthermore mondi somehow participated/encouraged strafe by when strafe said "the gooks," he agrees by replying 'of course the Korean rice eater.' Now let's not go further into whether that was offensive or not since obviously he didn't say it with good intent.
1tym your example could not be more off the mark and flawed in logic and reality. You cannot provide one example of where an employee committed a hate crime or a racist action and the CEO was punished via law.
good punishments imo, the thing against mondi was just to show they were aware of the racist comments being made by tot members probably, and just gave mondragon the mildest of punishments.. a minor warning :o If strafe had been in the rooster, he'd gotten the same penatly as the other koreans probably.
Control it is like that 99% of the times. Any incident happening within Starbucks store, the manager is accountable for it. My point being is that the leader is always responsible for the happenings within his boundaries to certain degrees regardless of the circumstances. Especially when he participated.
No actually. If a customer walks in and a Starbucks employee says "get out gook" or some racist shit, the manager walks in and fires the employee. If the customer presses charges the Manager isnt held accountable, i ask again: give me a example of where the employee acted out in a racial manner and the manager was held accountable.
Not sure who ToT are playing next, but Mondragon out for 1 gameday shouldn't hurt them much, they got plenty of great players
oG) on the other hand might be in big problems :D Let's see how long they can keep their 2nd spot O_O Or what the hell does penalty point even mean? :D Does it mean they lose pts in the league ? If so... rofl
An employee says "get out gook" and "you fuckin small penis shithead" to a cumstomer for 20 minutes in manager's presence but the manager neglects it for 20 minutes before finally he decides to put an end to it and at some point even chipping in by saying of course you riceeaters, then sure the hell the manger will get fired by starbucks headquater. Not to mention that the manager can be charged with negligence. As a starbucks manager, He should've stopped the incident way earlier. After few seconds. It is the responsibility of a manager of the Starbucks to maintain standard, make sure customers are treated well and serve the best coffee.
You know in a strata zone, if a random person walking by gets tripped over by big nail sticking out, then the real estate agent can be charged with negligence even though it is not his direct responsibility, rather the contruction team's fault but since the real estate agent is responsible for the management of the strata zone.
The problem is that the incident went on for way too long. There are total of about 12 different screenshots. You know what that means? Not in one any of the TOT members are expressing the discomfort or a single warning. As a leader he should've intervened way earlier or warned him. But that is not the case. That is negligence. Not to mention that he actually chipped in the insulting of the Korean members.
control he has a point. while mondragon did do the right thing regarding kicking strafe from the clan, he definitely could've intervened a little earlier in the channel?
edit: oh haha i was under the impression strafe got kicked from tot, guess not
Not when it was a response to strafe's the gooks comment. "Of course the korean = gook the rice eaters." I wouldn't personally get offended by such term, but it is a professional league which requires professional spirit. It is not the matter of whether you get offended or not, It is the matter of whether if his actions were appropriate or not.
i think it is much better for the other teams than for ig. actually u only need to be in top 6 to play in play offs and for getting out the top 6 we need to lose about everything 1-4 i think it does matter for teams like tmg since now they got much bigger chance in beating them so they can get into the top 6. and in the play offs the og) koreans can play again. but if i actually think in korean style about it i dont think they have problems to replace there gamers with other gamers since they got a whole pissed Sea. team who want to help them win :D
Well it still doesn't justify his actions. If you're a leader, especially given mondi's status, many of the teammates/players are looking up to him. Why encourage strafe like that? Even strafe is saying "manner mondi" sarcastically after he says that. Anyway, I leave you with the judgement. It was a fair call by SCCL admins, hopefully further incidents like this won't happen any time soon. Account sharing as well.
On November 16 2005 13:47 SayTT wrote: hey plz dont start arguing with control. Every thread gets 20 pages, it doesent matter if hes right or wrong. JUST DONT START PLZ :/
On November 16 2005 13:47 SayTT wrote: hey plz dont start arguing with control. Every thread gets 20 pages, it doesent matter if hes right or wrong. JUST DONT START PLZ :/
On November 16 2005 13:34 John Doe wrote: If you notice - the only people arguing that this is "okay" to be racist in the slightest sense - are the 'official' ToT members. >.<
Dunno if your making referance to me, all im saying is why dissy did what he did and how its not a big deal. Never said it was ok, in fact i said he made a mistake by doing it if you read my comments..
Im not arguing over this, its a old subject and its stupid. But if your going to bring it up im going to make sure facts are straight, pretty much my only concern.
It seriously isnt that big of a deal, people joke around about other peoples ethnicities and nationality all the time. The koreans were obviously being dipshits in the last clanwar vs sea and there was a bit of tension and people joked around. Big deal, really, get over it. If mondragon called them a rice eater BIG FUCKING DEAL =)
Hmm, weight a minute, are we on the internet? Racism on the internet? HOLY JEEZ! Granted it's ToT, granted it's during the league, but its an online channel and its someone who isn't even on the roster for sccl, get over it.
Don't Talk to strafe or type /squelch next time...
jeez, what a bunch of whiny people.
I think the punishment for oG) is a bit severe though, because from what they said it seemed to be a larger misunderstanding, hurt by a language barrier =\ oh well
It is hilarious how Control always miserably fails to deliver anything worth reading. Its just so blatantly obvious you're sucking Mondragons dick because he invited you into ToT) because he is in ToT) and because you're in ToT). Anyone who is in ToT) that actually tries and defends Mondragon is fucking pathetic. The only person worthy of doing that without being a pussy and speaking the truth, all of it, and NOTHING but it is Trek. Trek will tell you how it is. The rest of you guys just suck on Mondys dick thinking of stupid bullshit to justify his actions when you all know he was wrong for what he did.
First of all everyone in ToT) sucks mondys dick and I don't mean that offensively I'm just telling how it is. I think most people would agree, lol. With that being said... Mondy at any time could have simply called it off. You're arguments are worthless INC because everyone that knows ToT) knows for a fact that Mondy could have called the shit talking off at any time. Is it so hard to explain to one of your members what hes doing is childish, and will further result in him being kicked from the team because he gives everyone a bad message for his team? Most teams don't tolerate that shit, not even -X17.
You know to me its amazing. A team like -X17 with such a fucking shitty reputation.... would have dealt with something like this as a simple GOOD-BYE. There woulddn't be any questions asked. As Co-Leader if I ever witnessed that in any circumstance there would be no telling him to stop. I have certain expectations I make sure my team knows my expectations. I set up rules that I expect to be followed or harsh consequences will be the result. I'm a very patient man however. Most people say i'm not, I think I am.
Well the point is that Mondragon failed as a leader. It wasn't Strafes fault. It was Mondragons fault. He either misinforned strafe or didn't inform him at all on what he expects as a leader. Mondragon is a shitty leader thats all it is. He doesn't know jack shit about leading teams. He tagbans teams from his channel after losing CWs to them? Pretty funny. And his racist comments should be dealt with even more so harshly. Racism isn't tolerated in the world Not anywhere. Not on the internet not in real life. Its a serious offense. Joking or not. Doesn't fucking matter only children joke about shit like that.
It was obvious the sore loser Mondragon said riceeater because he got raped. It was obvious that Strafe was "defending" ( yah right.. lol ) his team, by shit talking Koreans in general. Not only did he shit Koreans for playing BroodWar but he began to shit talk them as a race. Therse no excuse for that, and if you've seen Strafes picture you'd know why
word to the wise: dont argue with Lee here the kid has a ability to argue like never before seen (100x worse than me). Even by me warning the rest of you with this post i am going to get flamed pretty hard by Lee's next post, the fact of the matter is i dont care hes a X17 legend in motor mouth division so consider yourself warned!
Ok, ill answer few questions. 1st. What penalty points mean in fact. - Every 3 penalty points means -1 point from ranking but : - every team got 5 wildcards, every wildcard is worth -2 penalty point, so if team wont use wildcards, that means that at the end those unused wildcards will remove 10 penalty points.
2nd. Why Mondi is banned for one playday. There was a lot of insulting etc. mostly from Strafe, but because Strafe isnt in SCCL team, and he belongs to ToT, leader of ToT has been punished.
3rd. oG) after this incident will be observed. so if account sharing will happen again, probably oG) will say bye to this league.
On November 16 2005 16:59 {88}iNcontroL wrote: word to the wise: dont argue with Lee here the kid has a ability to argue like never before seen (100x worse than me). Even by me warning the rest of you with this post i am going to get flamed pretty hard by Lee's next post, the fact of the matter is i dont care hes a X17 legend in motor mouth division so consider yourself warned!
You're right about one thing when you make a childish comment like that you deserve to get flamed but i'm going to do it like I have a brain. I'm not going to bash you.I defend my race out of pride from people like Strafe that makes me a motor mouth? lol? I don't argue for fun. I argue when i'm defending something that I believe is right. Theres a difference.... if I truly believe in something i'm going to act like I believe in it and that means defending it all costs has nothing to do with arguing AT ALL. Its about pride.
On November 16 2005 13:15 1tym wrote: Not when it was a response to strafe's the gooks comment. "Of course the korean = gook the rice eaters." I wouldn't personally get offended by such term, but it is a professional league which requires professional spirit. It is not the matter of whether you get offended or not, It is the matter of whether if his actions were appropriate or not.
If you don't think racism exists in professional sports then you probably haven't spent much time in the planet Earth.
On November 16 2005 17:45 jeddus wrote: If you don't think racism exists in professional sports then you probably haven't spent much time in the planet Earth.
Racism exists everywhere. But most people keep their racism hidden. Professional sports means you're in the public eye - hence, you have to conduct yourself in a "professional" manner. No one's gonna give a fuck if you're some redneck talking shit about other races in your own house. But if you're gonna say that shit where other people can hear you, then what else do you expect? For the race you're insulting to sit by and laugh?
penalty for mondragon: dunno. i havent seen it live and the screens i saw werent that impressive. whatever.
penalty for og: wtf . this is ridiculous, this thing is about money and accsharing leads to bans in comparable leagues(or the wc division of the same league where clans got kicked for accsharing).weaker clans will try it cuz they have nothing to lose. when their inferior player plays hell lose anyway so why not try to share and if it works weee win,and if they really get caught they have nothing to fear.
On November 16 2005 18:58 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: penalty for mondragon: dunno. i havent seen it live and the screens i saw werent that impressive. whatever.
penalty for og: wtf . this is ridiculous, this thing is about money and accsharing leads to bans in comparable leagues(or the wc division of the same league where clans got kicked for accsharing).weaker clans will try it cuz they have nothing to lose. when their inferior player plays hell lose anyway so why not try to share and if it works weee win,and if they really get caught they have nothing to fear.
You can try that once, and both your players will get banned and you will have pts deducted and you get a warning, do it again and your banned. Maybe its worth it , maybe not :p
On November 16 2005 16:45 iG.DrunkenTiger wrote: It is hilarious how Control always miserably fails to deliver anything worth reading. Its just so blatantly obvious you're sucking Mondragons dick because he invited you into ToT) because he is in ToT) and because you're in ToT). Anyone who is in ToT) that actually tries and defends Mondragon is fucking pathetic. The only person worthy of doing that without being a pussy and speaking the truth, all of it, and NOTHING but it is Trek. Trek will tell you how it is. The rest of you guys just suck on Mondys dick thinking of stupid bullshit to justify his actions when you all know he was wrong for what he did.
First of all everyone in ToT) sucks mondys dick and I don't mean that offensively I'm just telling how it is. I think most people would agree, lol. With that being said... Mondy at any time could have simply called it off. You're arguments are worthless INC because everyone that knows ToT) knows for a fact that Mondy could have called the shit talking off at any time. Is it so hard to explain to one of your members what hes doing is childish, and will further result in him being kicked from the team because he gives everyone a bad message for his team? Most teams don't tolerate that shit, not even -X17.
You know to me its amazing. A team like -X17 with such a fucking shitty reputation.... would have dealt with something like this as a simple GOOD-BYE. There woulddn't be any questions asked. As Co-Leader if I ever witnessed that in any circumstance there would be no telling him to stop. I have certain expectations I make sure my team knows my expectations. I set up rules that I expect to be followed or harsh consequences will be the result. I'm a very patient man however. Most people say i'm not, I think I am.
Well the point is that Mondragon failed as a leader. It wasn't Strafes fault. It was Mondragons fault. He either misinforned strafe or didn't inform him at all on what he expects as a leader. Mondragon is a shitty leader thats all it is. He doesn't know jack shit about leading teams. He tagbans teams from his channel after losing CWs to them? Pretty funny. And his racist comments should be dealt with even more so harshly. Racism isn't tolerated in the world Not anywhere. Not on the internet not in real life. Its a serious offense. Joking or not. Doesn't fucking matter only children joke about shit like that.
It was obvious the sore loser Mondragon said riceeater because he got raped. It was obvious that Strafe was "defending" ( yah right.. lol ) his team, by shit talking Koreans in general. Not only did he shit Koreans for playing BroodWar but he began to shit talk them as a race. Therse no excuse for that, and if you've seen Strafes picture you'd know why
I love how the Internet has made it safe for people to insult each other w/o fear of a smack in the face. That's right, express your inner racism and psychotic behavior by typing rather than talking on the streets. You know you'd think twice before calling a black man a nigger, a white dude a honky, an asian a gook and so on. And for those of you who say "these are just jokes", go up to someone you're friends with and make those kinda jokes, see their reaction. Much less making those kind of "jokes" to a stranger.
Lee wants you to know that he doesn't tolerate bad manner in X17. He also wants you to know that he thinks Mondragon is a childish sore loser, Strafe is ugly, and the rest of ToT are cocksuckers.
Someone wanna tell me what Sen and Jee's reaction were to this kind of racism? I mean they were in the channel... Maybe Sen didnt understand everything, but Jee certainly did
For me, for whatever reason, there's a difference between bashing a country and bashing an ethnicity. For example, if there was a specific insult about Koreans (your cars suck, whatever), I find that a lot less offensive than "gook." "Yankee, go home" is better than "redneck, get off your sister." Now that I think about it, I don't know why, but insults based on a person's appearance (skin color, features) tend to rile people up a lot more than insults based on nationality (German, Korean, French). At least that's my two cents.
On November 17 2005 01:21 OctoPuSs wrote: To be honest, I think that people are a bit overreacting with the "Rice Eaters"...
Seriously, everyone keeps bashing France and no one seems to care... And Americans keep laughing at Canadians for no god damn reasons...
If this kind of "racism" isn't acceptable, then we should ban any form of it.
I think with the "Rice Eater" comment it was intended to make the Korean intentionally angry. Before the match even happened, it seemed oG and ToT really hated each other. I'm just guessing since I wasn't around during the ToT vs oG dispute. As for the other comments you mentioned, I think those are just randomly thrown around in this forum just for easy laughs instead intentionally starting a flame war.
Many wrong things were posted here, even by ESL official News Admins. No clue how some ppl think they can talk about things they dont even know.
Right is that mondragon got punished because he started flaming when entering the channel as the very first ToT person at this day and he refused to stop it when I requested for it. He said to me: "idiot clans must be flamed and oG) is an idiot clan" (in german). After that a 3h flaming started where he made no single move to stop it and even supported it. When he "banned" strafe from the channel it was already in the very end after 2h or smth like this. So summed up he announced to ME before the clanwar that they gonna flame and show bad manner. This is not acceptable and has nothing to do with strafe. Strafe is not listed in ESL-Team. We figured out a vocal agreement with ToT that strafe keeps away from future ESL clanwarz or ToT might get damage from it.
On November 17 2005 01:21 OctoPuSs wrote: To be honest, I think that people are a bit overreacting with the "Rice Eaters"...
Seriously, everyone keeps bashing France and no one seems to care... And Americans keep laughing at Canadians for no god damn reasons...
If this kind of "racism" isn't acceptable, then we should ban any form of it.
I think with the "Rice Eater" comment it was intended to make the Korean intentionally angry. Before the match even happened, it seemed oG and ToT really hated each other. I'm just guessing since I wasn't around during the ToT vs oG dispute. As for the other comments you mentioned, I think those are just randomly thrown around in this forum just for easy laughs instead intentionally starting a flame war.
If someone called me a "Maple Sirup Eater", I wouldn't mind... They do eat lots of rice, it's in their culture... I don't really see how one could be more offended by it then any other things they are being said about France.
On November 17 2005 16:28 OctoPuSs wrote: If someone called me a "Maple Sirup Eater", I wouldn't mind... They do eat lots of rice, it's in their culture... I don't really see how one could be more offended by it then any other things they are being said about France.
in what way and what context is the term "rice eater" mostly used. so guess what meaning its got.
or are you acting stupid on purpose?
decision on ESL side seems really fair to me. just keep it nice in future guys.
On November 17 2005 16:28 OctoPuSs wrote: If someone called me a "Maple Sirup Eater", I wouldn't mind... They do eat lots of rice, it's in their culture... I don't really see how one could be more offended by it then any other things they are being said about France.
in what way and what context is the term "rice eater" mostly used. so guess what meaning its got.
or are you acting stupid on purpose?
decision on ESL side seems really fair to me. just keep it nice in future guys.
You base your agument on contexts... and you call me stupid?
EPT
