On February 18th the qualifiers for the third iteration of the International StarLeague take off. A new sponsor Altitude has taken the tournament under its wings and boasting a $2500 prizepool, there's more on the line than ever. We'll see new maps, a new format, a large playerpool with both familiar faces and up-and-comings, and featured casters like Sayle and Hacklebeast.
Before we head into explaining how the format of this tournament works, we would first like to introduce the brand new website that comes along with it. On this website you'll find updates and announcements like the ones we'll post on TL, but also Replays, Blogs with updates, Extra content and maybe even an Interview or two Curious? Get your bookmark trigger ready and scoot right over to:
The format of the entire tournament will have three stages: Qualification, Group Stage and the Altitude International Starleague itself. To follow the tournament activity, you can visit our Liquipedia. In short, 56 players qualify through the initial Qualifiers - they advance to the Group Stage. From the Group Stage, 28 players move on. They are joined by 4 invites to enter a 32 player single elimination final stage. All games are played on the Fish server. The maps on which will be played will be announced per stage. Further details are below.
The Qualification stage will run from February 18th to March 28th. All in all, there will be:
7 Qualifiers, with 64 players each
Each Qualifier will run a Single Elimination bracket
From each Qualifier 8 players advance
The amount of players advancing will thus total 56
To register for a Qualifier a player must register with an e-mail. There is a Reservation List of players whose registration for any Qualifier holds precedence over all other registries. The maps will be announced along with the Qualifiers (planned for February 11th), as well as the procedure and e-mail address for registration. + Show Spoiler [Reservation List] +
Zaraki ES - Spain Zerg
Karate UK - England Zerg
Jumper USA - USA Protoss
DeSka MX - Mexico Zerg
SneazeL PL - Poland Protoss
Sziky HU - Hungary Zerg
Cute CA - Canada Zerg
Mazur PL - Poland Protoss
skzlime HU - Hungary Terran
MaD NO - Norway Terran
OctZerg MK - Macedonia Zerg
TTF RU - Russia Terran
Must RU - Russia Protoss
andrey USA - USA Terran
HanDy PE - Peru Protoss
Cryoc DE - Germany Terran
Pro7ecT RU - Russia Terran
Bibiane CA - Canada Terran
Choosy PL - Poland Zerg
Michael USA - USA Zerg
Sailboat CA - Canada Protoss
Modesty USA - USA Zerg
Kashu HU - Hungary Random
fLip USA - USA Zerg
trutaCz PL - Poland Zerg
Arcneon FI - Finland Protoss
Plumbum RU - Russia Zerg
Zolotoi RU - Russia Protoss
Tama RU - Russia Protoss
Viciado AR - Argentina Zerg
TechnicS BG - Bulgaria Zerg
gag RU - Russia Terran
CaStrO PE - Peru Zerg
2011 RU - Russia Zerg
TriX PL - Poland Protoss
Gecko RO - Romania Terran
Bakuryu DE - Germany Zerg
Elena FR - France Terran
ZeaRush CL - Chile Protoss
DinOt CL - Chile Zerg
Napoleon FI - Finland Zerg
Kolll DE - Germany Zerg
AlfiO IT - Italy Protoss
UltrA CL - Chile Terran
DragOn CA - Canada Protoss
TerrOr PE - Peru Terran
TerranBoy PE - Peru Terran
Ace HU - Hungary Zerg
vanatir DE - Germany Protoss
KazioWichura PL - Poland Zerg
Ramms RU - Russia Terran
eOnzErG ES - Spain Zerg
Pike PL - Poland Zerg
FlaF RO - Romania Zerg
GoTuNk CL - Chile Protoss
Shauni SE - Sweden Protoss
GoD AU - Australia Protoss
Semih USA - USA Protoss
AstrO CA - Canada Protoss
Pallmall RU - Russia Protoss
SouthPark PL - Poland Zerg
LocDog HR - Croatia Protoss
Oystein NO - Norway Protoss
OyA SE - Sweden Protoss
Largo RU - Russia Terran
KapyO RO - Romania Zerg
Djem5 RU - Russia Protoss
INF3CTED BG - Bulgaria Zerg
The Group Stage will run over the course of 4 weeks from April 7th to April 28th. The 56 players in 14 groups will play through double elimination round robin brackets. On
April 7th, 4 groups are played
April 14th, 4 groups are played
April 21th, 3 groups are played
April 28th, 3 groups are played
In the end, 28 players remain and they will advance to the final stage.
The 28 players advancing from the Group Stage are joined by 4 invites, totalling 32 players who are seeded into a Single Elimination Bracket. From here on out, the schedule looks as follows:
May 5th - Round of 32, first half (8 matches)
May 12th - Round of 32, second half (8 matches)
May 19th - Round of 16
May 26th - Round of 8
June 2nd - Semifinals + 5th-8th place decider (round robin)
1) Rules Concerning Executive Decisions and Over-Rulings - All Players are subject to administrative discretion - LRM)Game reserves full discretion over all decisions and procedures
2) Rules Concerning Gameplay - Each player may only make 3 qualification attempts. - The "Reservation List" applies precedence of said players to register for qualification.
3) Rules Concerning Behavior - No bad manner will be tolerated in official write-ups by Altitude International Starleague's staff by participants with intent to qualify. - No bad manner directed towards Altitude International Starleague's staff is acceptable. This rule's parameters are strictly applied to official write-ups and during league operations. Failure to abide will result in a league ban.
4) Rules Concerning Server and Launcher - All games must be played on Fish Server - If under special circumstance Fish is down for an extended period of time, an announcement will be made in the applicable round's threads. - All games must be played using Mini-Launcher or ChaosLauncher - All games must be played using the #l2, #l1 or #ll settings.
5) Rules Concerning Replays - All replays must be sent to AltitudeISL@gmail.com immediately after the completion of a round. The winner must send in both wins and losses. Failure to do so will result in replacement. If a failed send occurs, however the player has proof of the attempt, the player may advance as long as the replays are delivered before the start of the next round.
6) Rules Concerning Names - All players must use their most known ID, if you are unsure of which ID you should use, please contact LRM)Game. (Exceptions may be discussed) - All players must be using proper ISL tag during all Altitude ISL games.
7) Rules Concerning Lag - If a player is experiencing an unplayable quantity of lag, they must leave the game before the two minute mark. Beyond this point, the player will be forced to play out the set. - Lag games could result in the dissmissal of a player at the referee's discretion. The player's case will then be dealt with at a later time.
8) Rules Concerning Drops - If a player drops due to a bugged map, the incident will be recorded for the host in case of future issues. The players will change up the map and continue with the set. - If a player drops due to a loss of connectivity to the internet, the players will have to wait until all other sets of the same round have been taken care of, then the replay will be reviewed and a judgment will be made. (Re-game/Victory/Defeat) - If a player drops twice due to a loss of connectivity to the internet, the player will be attributed for a loss of the game in which the drop occured. - If a player drops due to an IP conflict, both players will be reviewed and a decision will be made based on the the information and options at hand.
9) Rules Concerning Abuse - Any form of abuse will result in the offending player's ban from the Altitude International Starleague. This player will not be allowed to re-enter another qualifier, nor any league operated by the organization of Altitude's International Starleague.
10) Rules Concerning PP matches - There will be no PP matches, if you cannot make it to a qualifier, try to get in one of the other 6.
11) Rules Concerning IP - No Korean IP Addresses - Players are required to surrender their IP address upon admission to the league. - Players may be required to surrender their IP address again at any given time during the league without notice.
12) Rules Concerning W.O Timers - A player who finds himself without an opponent will be granted a W.O victory for every 15 minutes of waited time. - The above rule is applicable not only to situations of tardiness, but those of neglect. - Technical issues do not apply and will be handled case to case.
1) Rules Concerning Executive Decisions and Over-Rulings - All Players are subject to administrative discretion. - LRM)Game reserves full discretion over all decisions and procedures.
2) Rules Concerning Behavior - No bad manner will be tolerated in official write-ups by Altitude International Starleague's staff. - No bad manner will be tolerated amongst players during league operations. - No bad manner directed towards Altitude International Starleague's staff is acceptable. This rule's parameters are strictly applied to official write-ups and during league operations. Failure to abide will result in a league ban.
3) Rules Concerning Server and Launcher - All games must be played on Fish Server - If under special circumstance Fish is down for an extended period of time, an announcement will be made in the applicable round's threads. - All games must be played using Mini-Launcher or ChaosLauncher - All games must be played using the #l2, #l1 or #ll settings.
4) Rules Concerning Replays - All replays must be sent to AltitudeISL@gmail.com immediately after the completion of a round. The winner must send in both wins and losses. Failure to do so will result in replacement. If a failed send occurs, however the player has proof of the attempt, the player may advance as long as the replays are delivered before the start of the next round.
5) Rules Concerning Lag - If a player is experiencing an unplayable quantity of lag, they must leave the game before the two minute mark. Beyond this point, the player will be forced to play out the set. - If one player has unplayable lag, the referee handling that players group will set a time for that set to be finished given the availability of the player who is not lagging. - If there is a lag conflict, and there has been a careful effort to verify the conflict's existence, the group will then be re-randomized.
6) Rules Concerning PP matches - If a player makes one of the referee's aware that he cannot play the day of his group match within 72 hours of the set playing time, he will then be allowed to then contact his opponent 48 hours ahead of time to pre-play or postpone the match. The time frame is very tight, and thus must be obeyed. Upon proof via screenshot of contact back and forth between player and opponent, the referee handling the case will then assign a date and time to be played, earlier or later than set time, at a time of mutual availability. The circumstance of a match played earlier is at the discretion of the opponent who is being inconvenienced.
7) Rules Concerning W.O Timers - A player who finds himself without an opponent will be granted a W.O victory for every 15 minutes of waited time. - The above rule is applicable not only to situations of tardiness, but those of neglect. - Technical issues do not apply and will be handled case to case.
8) Rules Concerning Abuse - Any form of abuse will result in the offending player's ban from the Altitude International Starleague. This player will not be allowed to re-enter another qualifier, nor any league operated by the organization of Altitude's International Starleague.
9) Rules Concerning IP - Players may be required to surrender their IP address again at any given time during the league without notice.
1) Rules Concerning Executive Decisions and Over-Rulings - All Players are subject to administrative discretion. - LRM)Game reserves full discretion over all decisions and procedures.
2) Rules Concerning Behavior - No bad manner during the tournament, period. This applies to bad manner of staff, fellow participants, in write-ups, in the official channel, or in game. Professionalism is mandatory, and will be absolute.
3) Rules Concerning Server and Launcher - All games must be played on Fish Server - If under special circumstance Fish is down for an extended period of time, an announcement will be made in the applicable round's threads. - All games must be played using Mini-Launcher or ChaosLauncher - All games must be played using the #l2, #l1 or #ll settings.
4) Rules Concerning Replays - All replays must be sent to AltitudeISL@gmail.com immediately after the completion of a round. The winner must send in both wins and losses. Failure to do so will result in replacement. If a failed send occurs, however the player has proof of the attempt, the player may advance as long as the replays are delivered before the start of the next round.
5) Rules Concerning Lag - If a player is experiencing an unplayable quantity of lag, they must leave the game before the two minute mark. Beyond this point, the player will be forced to play out the set. - If one player has unplayable lag, one the referees will set a time for that set to be finished given the availability of the player who is not lagging. - Under the circumstance of a lag conflict, the set will be forced into postponement. The postponed time and date will be set by the league commissioner. On this time and date, both players must have either found a LAN cafe in which they will be forced to surrender the IP from, or playing from a different, but applicable location. Examples being a friends house, school, library, etc. IP's will also be mandatory from these locations.
6) Rules Concerning PP matches - If a player makes one of the referee's aware that he cannot play the day of his match within 72 hours of the set playing time, he will then be allowed to then contact his opponent 48 hours ahead of time to pre-play or postpone the match. The time frame is very tight, and thus must be obeyed. Upon proof via screenshot of contact back and forth between player and opponent, the referee handling the case will then assign a date and time to be played, earlier or later than set time, at a time of mutual availability. The circumstance of a match played earlier is first at the discretion of the opponent who is being inconvenienced, and then must be confirmed reasonable by said referee.
7) Rules Concerning W.O Timers - A player who finds himself without an opponent will be granted a W.O victory for every 15 minutes of waited time. - The above rule is applicable not only to situations of tardiness, but those of neglect. - Technical issues do not apply and will be handled case to case.
8) Rules Concerning Abuse - Any form of abuse will result in the offending player's ban from the Altitude International Starleague. This player will not be allowed to re-enter another qualifier, nor any league operated by the organization of Altitude's International Starleague.
9) Rules Concerning IP - Players may be required to surrender their IP address again at any given time during the league without notice.
"Altitude is a free to play, fast-paced, competitive, multiplayer game made by and for fans of BW." - Altitude
"I'd like to wish the players, caster and viewers a good time, bw hwaiting!" - Prowler
"I'd like to thank every person who makes this tournament possible, and to wish good luck to the players. Let's show everyobody how awesome the foreign bw community can be!" - corumjhaelen
On February 08 2012 08:13 xxpack09 wrote: holy shit $2500??
That's AMAZING, so what is this altitude thing? the website is down for me
AltitudeISL.net takes a few seconds to load, there is also a "Play Altitude" redirection tab on the left side of the page. It's an indie multiplayer game with a competitive ladder that's very fun.
Wow, amazing! This is great for the foreign BW scene! Mad props for Game's, Prowler's, corumjhaelen's and everyone who's involved efforts and work for making this happen : ) I am really looking forward to Altitude's SL and hope that some of the greatest games/series in the foreign scene in the last years will actually happen throughout ISL3. HF everyone
Holy ??!?! that's incredible. I knew something was happening, but this??? Huge thanks to everyone involved, I will be sure to express that directly to Altitude as well.
Can't wait for this to get underway. No doubt, this is something everyone can get behind. Looks like I need to make 4 hours a day for BW, just in case I can qualify...
Just saw the prize structure as well- I'm a big fan of this! Spreading the love around :D
this is madness, i'm really fucking unlucky fellow, why always all tourneys are being played then, when i can't play active :< TSL-, TSL-2, ISL-1, ISL-3 the worst terms for me..
Ooh, amazing price pool and clear rules. Hope to see players like Sziky, Pro7ect, Jumperer, Napoleon, southpark... (way too many to name!) To sharpen some claws and show insane games!
Just out of curiosity, will you reveal invites before qualifications, or group stage, or at the last moment? Can't wait for this!
A little bit confused how one should enter. Cause the last ISL´s the players were pushing games on Icup. So how does this work now. Just hope you get picked?
On February 08 2012 12:16 LegaCy_ wrote: How do i sign up.....?
On February 08 2012 12:30 yellowsmile wrote: legacy.. u r not on the list?
You can sign up by email to the address that will be announced once the Qualifiers are announced. And just to clear up what I think is a misunderstanding by yellowsmile: you don't have to be on the Reservation List. It's just that every qualifier is limited to 64 slots, first come first serve, but the people on the reservation list take precedence over all others.
this will be so awesome i was waiting for ISL3 ! :D the prize pool is big, and the amount of players that can play to qualify is impressive too. 7 Qualifiers each with 64 players = 448 players O_o... and almost 4 months from the qualifiers to the finals, that's a lot of time O_O
and i have a question, since what round this tournament will be streamed? (qualifiers[i don't think so xD] group stage, ro32?)
I am still wondering about this format of qualification, since it's more based on luck entrance than actual top players who are able to rank through ladder system (however iccup is really hard to rank now anyway). For example, the top let's say 20 people enter the same 3 qualifications, but they are in the same quadrant bracket for the tour, only 2 of them will advance and this could happen by chance that we lose a lot of top players. Similarly, we can get the lowest of levels if the other side is mostly mid C, etc.
So with that in mind, I am going to enter the first tour, if you are above B rank you should not enter ^^
Ooh, amazing price pool and clear rules. Hope to see players like Sziky, Pro7ect, Jumperer, Napoleon, southpark... (way too many to name!) To sharpen some claws and show insane games!
Just out of curiosity, will you reveal invites before qualifications, or group stage, or at the last moment? Can't wait for this!
I'm glad that someone finally asked this. I'm going to let it be a guessing game.
this will be so awesome i was waiting for ISL3 ! :D the prize pool is big, and the amount of players that can play to qualify is impressive too. 7 Qualifiers each with 64 players = 448 players O_o... and almost 4 months from the qualifiers to the finals, that's a lot of time O_O
and i have a question, since what round this tournament will be streamed? (qualifiers[i don't think so xD] group stage, ro32?)
Wow this is so cool ! It's so cool that I'm gonna have to try Altitude even if I haven't played anything else than BW for the last 7 years. (got a PSP for Christmas, but it's still in its box...)
Props for getting such a nice prize pool and organizing everything by the way !
edit : should add a direct link to Altitude's official website in the OP. There are only links to the AltitudeISL.net website that is down for me. I had to Google it to find it's http://altitudegame.com/
this will be so awesome i was waiting for ISL3 ! :D the prize pool is big, and the amount of players that can play to qualify is impressive too. 7 Qualifiers each with 64 players = 448 players O_o... and almost 4 months from the qualifiers to the finals, that's a lot of time O_O
and i have a question, since what round this tournament will be streamed? (qualifiers[i don't think so xD] group stage, ro32?)
All of it.
impressive, lot of job for the casters hahaha. i can't wait to watch this tournament
On February 09 2012 03:23 dRaW wrote: I am still wondering about this format of qualification, since it's more based on luck entrance than actual top players who are able to rank through ladder system (however iccup is really hard to rank now anyway). For example, the top let's say 20 people enter the same 3 qualifications, but they are in the same quadrant bracket for the tour, only 2 of them will advance and this could happen by chance that we lose a lot of top players. Similarly, we can get the lowest of levels if the other side is mostly mid C, etc.
So with that in mind, I am going to enter the first tour, if you are above B rank you should not enter ^^
If the top 20 enter the same 3 tours, then 8 will qualify in qualifier 1 leaving 12 to enter qualifier 2. Then 8 will qualify there, leaving 4, who will all get in at qualifier 3. Yes, there is some luck involved with the process, but it isn't as bad as the scenario you described. I would say the "luck" involved is about as much luck in any bracket tournament. You could have to play sziky first round, you may get a walkover.
On February 09 2012 03:23 dRaW wrote: I am still wondering about this format of qualification, since it's more based on luck entrance than actual top players who are able to rank through ladder system (however iccup is really hard to rank now anyway). For example, the top let's say 20 people enter the same 3 qualifications, but they are in the same quadrant bracket for the tour, only 2 of them will advance and this could happen by chance that we lose a lot of top players. Similarly, we can get the lowest of levels if the other side is mostly mid C, etc.
So with that in mind, I am going to enter the first tour, if you are above B rank you should not enter ^^
Huh... Not really, if you play in 3 qualifiers and you lose 3 times, odds are you wouldn't get that far in the ISL anyways, therefore its not really luck, it's just you may perhaps get some lesser players in than some who may have gotten eliminated in the qualifiers, however, positions reversed between the players, likely neither of them would have gotten past the group stage.
On February 09 2012 03:23 dRaW wrote: I am still wondering about this format of qualification, since it's more based on luck entrance than actual top players who are able to rank through ladder system (however iccup is really hard to rank now anyway). For example, the top let's say 20 people enter the same 3 qualifications, but they are in the same quadrant bracket for the tour, only 2 of them will advance and this could happen by chance that we lose a lot of top players. Similarly, we can get the lowest of levels if the other side is mostly mid C, etc.
So with that in mind, I am going to enter the first tour, if you are above B rank you should not enter ^^
This is no problem if you use some seeding procedure (which the list indicates either way) - you could basically even use some sort of foreign ranking to calculate that before hand (e.g. the gg.net ranking / defiler.ru DeSPA).
On February 09 2012 03:23 dRaW wrote: I am still wondering about this format of qualification, since it's more based on luck entrance than actual top players who are able to rank through ladder system (however iccup is really hard to rank now anyway). For example, the top let's say 20 people enter the same 3 qualifications, but they are in the same quadrant bracket for the tour, only 2 of them will advance and this could happen by chance that we lose a lot of top players. Similarly, we can get the lowest of levels if the other side is mostly mid C, etc.
So with that in mind, I am going to enter the first tour, if you are above B rank you should not enter ^^
If the top 20 enter the same 3 tours, then 8 will qualify in qualifier 1 leaving 12 to enter qualifier 2. Then 8 will qualify there, leaving 4, who will all get in at qualifier 3. Yes, there is some luck involved with the process, but it isn't as bad as the scenario you described. I would say the "luck" involved is about as much luck in any bracket tournament. You could have to play sziky first round, you may get a walkover.
Actually, that's not quite true either. If the top 20 enter one tour and all end up on the same side of the bracket, only 4 of them will advance instead of the possible 8. If the other half of the bracket was full of C players, then you will get 4 legitimate qualifiers and 4 C rank scrubs going through. This is the worst case scenario of course, but highlights the point KC is trying to make. I think the seeding system that Gecko mentioned is a great idea in theory but will be tricky/time-consuming to implement. Also, it might not even necessarily be a bad thing to have the possibility of a couple of random C players qualifying. Adds an underdog story to the group stages ;p
Edit: Also, this format of open qualifiers was used for GosuCup and worked pretty well. There were a couple of interesting tours where players like Cryoc (C+) made it to the last stage but I think overall only deserving players made it through.
On February 09 2012 03:23 dRaW wrote: I am still wondering about this format of qualification, since it's more based on luck entrance than actual top players who are able to rank through ladder system (however iccup is really hard to rank now anyway). For example, the top let's say 20 people enter the same 3 qualifications, but they are in the same quadrant bracket for the tour, only 2 of them will advance and this could happen by chance that we lose a lot of top players. Similarly, we can get the lowest of levels if the other side is mostly mid C, etc.
So with that in mind, I am going to enter the first tour, if you are above B rank you should not enter ^^
If the top 20 enter the same 3 tours, then 8 will qualify in qualifier 1 leaving 12 to enter qualifier 2. Then 8 will qualify there, leaving 4, who will all get in at qualifier 3. Yes, there is some luck involved with the process, but it isn't as bad as the scenario you described. I would say the "luck" involved is about as much luck in any bracket tournament. You could have to play sziky first round, you may get a walkover.
Actually, that's not quite true either. If the top 20 enter one tour and all end up on the same side of the bracket, only 4 of them will advance instead of the possible 8. If the other half of the bracket was full of C players, then you will get 4 legitimate qualifiers and 4 C rank scrubs going through. This is the worst case scenario of course, but highlights the point KC is trying to make. I think the seeding system that Gecko mentioned is a great idea in theory but will be tricky/time-consuming to implement. Also, it might not even necessarily be a bad thing to have the possibility of a couple of random C players qualifying. Adds an underdog story to the group stages ;p
Edit: Also, this format of open qualifiers was used for GosuCup and worked pretty well. There were a couple of interesting tours where players like Cryoc (C+) made it to the last stage but I think overall only deserving players made it through.
the problem is u have a limit of try whats if u face better rival in ur 3 try. gg nore -_-. seriously game change this plz. not make limit of try
If you implement No Limit I guess people could sign up all 8 times and then not show up a bunch of times, taking up one of the 64 valuable quali spots.
On February 09 2012 23:56 Pholon wrote: If you implement No Limit I guess people could sign up all 8 times and then not show up a bunch of times, taking up one of the 64 valuable quali spots.
On February 09 2012 23:56 Pholon wrote: If you implement No Limit I guess people could sign up all 8 times and then not show up a bunch of times, taking up one of the 64 valuable quali spots.
Surely there's a better way of dealing with this than limiting signups to just 3 per player. If you're concerned about no-shows, just punish those players directly. For example, if a reservation list player signs up for a tour but doesn't show up, he loses his spot on the reservation list and/or is not allowed to sign up for the next 2 tours or something. Find a way to punish the no-show players directly rather than affecting players who are legitimately trying to qualify but get unlucky in the brackets.
Either way, I agree that the 3 attempt limit is not a good idea.
On February 09 2012 03:23 dRaW wrote: I am still wondering about this format of qualification, since it's more based on luck entrance than actual top players who are able to rank through ladder system (however iccup is really hard to rank now anyway). For example, the top let's say 20 people enter the same 3 qualifications, but they are in the same quadrant bracket for the tour, only 2 of them will advance and this could happen by chance that we lose a lot of top players. Similarly, we can get the lowest of levels if the other side is mostly mid C, etc.
So with that in mind, I am going to enter the first tour, if you are above B rank you should not enter ^^
If the top 20 enter the same 3 tours, then 8 will qualify in qualifier 1 leaving 12 to enter qualifier 2. Then 8 will qualify there, leaving 4, who will all get in at qualifier 3. Yes, there is some luck involved with the process, but it isn't as bad as the scenario you described. I would say the "luck" involved is about as much luck in any bracket tournament. You could have to play sziky first round, you may get a walkover.
Actually, that's not quite true either. If the top 20 enter one tour and all end up on the same side of the bracket, only 4 of them will advance instead of the possible 8. If the other half of the bracket was full of C players, then you will get 4 legitimate qualifiers and 4 C rank scrubs going through. This is the worst case scenario of course, but highlights the point KC is trying to make. I think the seeding system that Gecko mentioned is a great idea in theory but will be tricky/time-consuming to implement. Also, it might not even necessarily be a bad thing to have the possibility of a couple of random C players qualifying. Adds an underdog story to the group stages ;p
Edit: Also, this format of open qualifiers was used for GosuCup and worked pretty well. There were a couple of interesting tours where players like Cryoc (C+) made it to the last stage but I think overall only deserving players made it through.
the problem is u have a limit of try whats if u face better rival in ur 3 try. gg nore -_-. seriously game change this plz. not make limit of try
lol we agree on something, this is all I was saying, there is a small chance that you can end up in the same initial bracket as say pro7ect michael and sziky more than once
I do agree that we need a diversity in skill because it does make for more entertainment, and we'll just have to see if this format works or not.
Well, go practice and take those players out then;) Also, the chances that they will qualify in that tour will reduce the chance of better players being in your bracket in the next one, right?
Alright, there are multiple reasons for having the qualification system the way it is.
1. Deters walkovers. Yes, there will still be walkovers, but far less than there would be otherwise. Individually punishment is a very scary path to take, as the only recourse ISL has is to eliminate the person from the tourny. Can you imagine the flack ISL would take from everyone if Bakuryu's cat got sick so he had to forfeit his game and was consequentially banned? (well, everyone except Bakuryu. I'm pretty sure he is incapable of anger.) Seriously, of all the punishments handed down in ISL, gambit cup, or nation war, how many were seen as a positive? I can only think of scan related ones.
2. Number of people. We want (nearly) everyone who wants a shot into ISL to get a shot. If we allow everyone to enter every qualifier, then they will. That means about 100 people will get a shot to qualify. That's not enough people. By limiting the number of qualification spots, it nearly doubles the number of people who get to participate.
3. Makes it more entertaining. People entering 6 qualifiers means people aren't eliminated until #6. This way we have eliminations 3-6. It's a minor reason, sure, but people play better, and it's more fun to watch when there is something is on the line.
At the end of the day, the system is still extremely generous in allowing the good players to qualify. Let's be honest, If you can't manage to get top 8 in any of 3 qualifiers, you aren't going to get top 8 in ISL proper.
At the end of the day, the system is still extremely generous in allowing the good players to qualify. Let's be honest, If you can't manage to get top 8 in any of 3 qualifiers, you aren't going to get top 8 in ISL proper.[/QUOTE]
this sound like you played a proleague games and tell what its right and wrong, most of those who are good ( not including me ) can lose 3 times to a different players.
On February 10 2012 04:23 Eywa- wrote: If you lose 3 times in Qualifiers, you're out. If you lose 2 times in Group stage, you're out. If you lose 1 time in Main bracket, you're out.
Dunno, seems to make sense... if you lose 3 times in Qualifiers, how are you going to win so many consecutive times in the Main Bracket?
Have you heard of Jangbi? :p Also, there is a shitload of time to practice between qualifiers and following rounds. Nevertheless, this is a great iniciative and I'll participate and support whatever u guys decide.
It just seems to me that most top players would like to reduce variance on first round and qualify through a system which rewards skill more than luck.
On February 10 2012 04:23 Eywa- wrote: If you lose 3 times in Qualifiers, you're out. If you lose 2 times in Group stage, you're out. If you lose 1 time in Main bracket, you're out.
Dunno, seems to make sense... if you lose 3 times in Qualifiers, how are you going to win so many consecutive times in the Main Bracket?
Have you heard of Jangbi? :p Also, there is a shitload of time to practice between qualifiers and following rounds. Nevertheless, this is a great iniciative and I'll participate and support whatever u guys decide.
It just seems to me that most top players would like to reduce variance on first round and qualify through a system which rewards skill more than luck.
To me, all this complaint on the system just seems like 'hey I have a chance of not qualifying this time around because it has a new system' because they knew they can qualify easily if they do a laddered one, just like ISL and ISL2.
But there's no perfect system out there. Do I like this system? Not really, but I do find it slightly better than just ladder scores because now it brings in the luck factor. Sure, tournaments are held to find out who is one of the best, but luck should also factor in at times. For example, look at Flash and how he dropped out of getting seed twice in a row in OSL. If OSL was purely skill based, he would have won so many times, might have even gotten himself a platinum mouse by now.
On February 10 2012 06:01 Sayle wrote: TSL2 system was god-tier IMO.
I'm still quite iffy on using the Ladder system today, but other than that it was one of the most well-used system that I've seen to date.
because back then, there were so many players in BW (because SC2 wasn't out) so they actually had to fight for the top spots to qualify for TSL. Look now: almost every top player is guaranteed to be seeded into ISL if they just spend time to ladder, which eliminates the fun. Might as well invite top 96 players without the ladder stage.
On February 10 2012 06:01 Sayle wrote: TSL2 system was god-tier IMO.
I'm still quite iffy on using the Ladder system today, but other than that it was one of the most well-used system that I've seen to date.
because back then, there were so many players in BW (because SC2 wasn't out) so they actually had to fight for the top spots to qualify for TSL. Look now: almost every top player is guaranteed to be seeded into ISL if they just spend time to ladder, which eliminates the fun. Might as well invite top 96 players without the ladder stage.
Wait wait...so you don't want every top player to play in ISL3?
I prefer the 7 qualifiers instead of the laddering. if someone is really good, for example Kashu. He s really good, but he's kinda busy, maybe not having time to play ladder, and reach high ranks in 4-5 weeks. In ladder you can play unlimited games, you can have more points than a better player of you. Anyway i don't think beetwen ladder qualification and qualifier tournaments we would get different top16 players.
On February 10 2012 06:01 Sayle wrote: TSL2 system was god-tier IMO.
I'm still quite iffy on using the Ladder system today, but other than that it was one of the most well-used system that I've seen to date.
because back then, there were so many players in BW (because SC2 wasn't out) so they actually had to fight for the top spots to qualify for TSL. Look now: almost every top player is guaranteed to be seeded into ISL if they just spend time to ladder, which eliminates the fun. Might as well invite top 96 players without the ladder stage.
Wait wait...so you don't want every top player to play in ISL3?
Not really, I call those an invitational.
Everyone should have a chance at qualifying in the tournaments, whether they're good or not. I think Ladder will only become an abusive way for top players to keep qualifying every single time, guaranteed (Unlike in the past where people actually had to fight for the top few spots, even if they were good).
It also allows people who don't play bw frequently (or don't have time to) to qualify while also keeping up with whatever they do irl.
On February 10 2012 13:16 Jumperer wrote: I think the best way to reduce variance is to make it double elimination. introduce a loser bracket like in defiler's tournament where it's bo1 and the bracket is flipped(you play players from the other side of the bracket)
On February 10 2012 13:16 Jumperer wrote: I think the best way to reduce variance is to make it double elimination. introduce a loser bracket like in defiler's tournament where it's bo1 and the bracket is flipped(you play players from the other side of the bracket)
I'm actually genuinely interested to see how the different format works! Experimentation is the best way to find out what's best, and just sticking to the same format every time means we might be missing something pretty entertaining. Give this a chance, guys- it could be great to update how we run these things. We just don't know yet!
On February 10 2012 06:01 Sayle wrote: TSL2 system was god-tier IMO.
I'm still quite iffy on using the Ladder system today, but other than that it was one of the most well-used system that I've seen to date.
because back then, there were so many players in BW (because SC2 wasn't out) so they actually had to fight for the top spots to qualify for TSL. Look now: almost every top player is guaranteed to be seeded into ISL if they just spend time to ladder, which eliminates the fun. Might as well invite top 96 players without the ladder stage.
Wait wait...so you don't want every top player to play in ISL3?
Not really, I call those an invitational.
Everyone should have a chance at qualifying in the tournaments, whether they're good or not. I think Ladder will only become an abusive way for top players to keep qualifying every single time, guaranteed (Unlike in the past where people actually had to fight for the top few spots, even if they were good).
It also allows people who don't play bw frequently (or don't have time to) to qualify while also keeping up with whatever they do irl.
In the current format, johny23 could qualify for the ISL3 if he got a lucky bracket.
On February 10 2012 06:01 Sayle wrote: TSL2 system was god-tier IMO.
I'm still quite iffy on using the Ladder system today, but other than that it was one of the most well-used system that I've seen to date.
because back then, there were so many players in BW (because SC2 wasn't out) so they actually had to fight for the top spots to qualify for TSL. Look now: almost every top player is guaranteed to be seeded into ISL if they just spend time to ladder, which eliminates the fun. Might as well invite top 96 players without the ladder stage.
Wait wait...so you don't want every top player to play in ISL3?
Not really, I call those an invitational.
Everyone should have a chance at qualifying in the tournaments, whether they're good or not. I think Ladder will only become an abusive way for top players to keep qualifying every single time, guaranteed (Unlike in the past where people actually had to fight for the top few spots, even if they were good).
It also allows people who don't play bw frequently (or don't have time to) to qualify while also keeping up with whatever they do irl.
In the current format, johny23 could qualify for the ISL3 if he got a lucky bracket.
He could also qualify if he played 1000 ladder games, if it were ladder format.
What qualifier system prevents jonny23 from getting in (assuming that this is a bad thing, of which I'm not convinced)? ISL2 had a bunch of players we've never heard of before and will never hear from again (some of who even got past the group stage), and even qualifiers as harsh as osl/msl still have their share of food5s.
On February 11 2012 22:47 hacklebeast wrote: What qualifier system prevents jonny23 from getting in (assuming that this is a bad thing, of which I'm not convinced)? ISL2 had a bunch of players we've never heard of before and will never hear from again (some of who even got past the group stage), and even qualifiers as harsh as osl/msl still have their share of food5s.
I just wanted to add, no tournament that we could possibly execute would be void of the luck factor. I mean, even ISL2, look at fourth leg, bracket 1... The players who came out of that bracket would have gotten demolished in some other brackets and other players might have gone on to win the whole thing if they were in that bracket and somehow ended up with a not so unfavorable match up...
I mean, Ro32 we had Bibiane <> TerranBoy Neither who's TvT exceeds C+ and Dsaqwe <> Plumbum and, no offense to these players, but they haven't been the most successful in recent events.
On another bracket we have Bakuryu <> GoTuNk, Kolll <> CaStrO who are all B+/A- and who all specialize in the match up they were given (cept I'd say Kolll is better ZvT but the muta factor still makes his ZvZ redic).
Now, if we weigh these brackets, we see there is a luck factor with the ladder procedure and it might even be greater than that of a qualifier due to the reservation list. This is because a ladder qualifier will let in players who are C-/C/C+ and have mass gamed, if too many of them get put in the same bracket, you end up with brackets like the ones I described above with no top foreigners... Now just to clarify, I'm not saying everyone in that bracket is bellow B-, I'm saying that the bracket is a good example of one division being weaker than another using the ladder system.
With the qualification system + reservation list, it makes it damn well near impossible for players of lower rank to qualify.
we can have suggestions, however the organizer determines the rules eventually. for those who want to play just follow it, otherwise leave this event. it is that simple.
On February 12 2012 00:50 GoTuNk! wrote: just add loser brackets or mb increase the ammount of tourneys u can play to 4-5
This has carried on long enough... it's not changing.
UPDATE: AltitudeISL.net is on a new and much better host, so it will never be down for anyone.
Still down for me. I'm in China if that can helps to solve the issue. Unless it's hosted on blogspot, which I doubt, it should not be blocked in China.
On February 12 2012 00:50 GoTuNk! wrote: just add loser brackets or mb increase the ammount of tourneys u can play to 4-5
This has carried on long enough... it's not changing.
UPDATE: AltitudeISL.net is on a new and much better host, so it will never be down for anyone.
Still down for me. I'm in China if that can helps to solve the issue. Unless it's hosted on blogspot, which I doubt, it should not be blocked in China.
On February 12 2012 00:50 GoTuNk! wrote: just add loser brackets or mb increase the ammount of tourneys u can play to 4-5
This has carried on long enough... it's not changing.
UPDATE: AltitudeISL.net is on a new and much better host, so it will never be down for anyone.
Still down for me. I'm in China if that can helps to solve the issue. Unless it's hosted on blogspot, which I doubt, it should not be blocked in China.
Really looking forward to play this I might even do the effort of going down to my door room so I could be streamed live, WHO wouldn't kill to see that..?!
On February 15 2012 10:53 MaD[AoV] wrote: Really looking forward to play this I might even do the effort of going down to my door room so I could be streamed live, WHO wouldn't kill to see that..?!
Hi. I wish: 1. Smaller price for the places, but higher amount of money for place. I mean 1-8 place receive money, so why dont you make 1-12 receive money or 1-16? More-TheBetter no matter how much... 2. Bonus money give to random player who made it to the Group Stage and free money (10$) for a random player who didn qualift, but tryed. 3. Can C+ B- Player register? am i only one?
I might even do the effort of going down to my door room so I could be streamed live...
Lol. LOool.. Wait.. i dont get it.. U mean you to try stream urself ..?
wow this is amazing! high price pool. I who thought BW was pretty dead. I think i guessed wrong. have fun everyone playing in this! and good job Game creating something like this! <3
On February 17 2012 09:46 LuckyFool wrote: are people still signing up or is this bracket done? I'm waiting for my bye to turn into vs Scan or whoever is good these days.... t.t
On March 01 2012 23:43 awerti wrote: Which youtube channel are vods uploaded to? I assume they are uploaded.
They will be uploaded to the channel behindthecurtainbw (or at least my vods will). Admittedly I've been bad about getting them up, but I will post the vods in the thread as well so you don't have to keep checking the channel to see when they are uploaded.
Edit: I will be positing them in the qualifier thread. They are being uploaded now, so will be posted about 12 hours from now.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/shiroiusagi/isl3_topheader.jpg)
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Altitude's ISL on Liquipedia
gosu actor, btw 
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:r 
P
Bibiane <> 
Dsaqwe <> 
Plumbum and, no offense to these players, but they haven't been the most successful in recent events.
