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On September 03 2011 08:50 miky_ardiente wrote:
fantasy best matchup is tvp, he will likely remain osl champion, 2 osl golds in a row, what a boss
And JangBi's best matchup is PvT, your point?
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On September 03 2011 07:24 Kalent wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 06:59 Sirgery wrote:
Holy f***.
Just got to minute 23 of Nevake's uploaded game 3 VOD. There are only 4 VODs, so I know winner of game 3 has to win game 4...
Up through the first 22 minutes, I was thinking, "Wow, Hydra... In my opinion, you played a damn good first game, despite the bunker rush, and then your second game was terrific. Going +1 carapace early on to counter what you predicted was Fantasy's +1 push was brilliant. I like zerg because of the way you are playing. You've consistently found TINY holes in Fantasy's turret lines to make the most of your mutas, and have done some crazy stuff that makes me instantly realize how awesome you are."
(I'm typically a zerg hater.)
In the fourth game, he absolutely seemed like he was going to beat a 4-13 disadvantage on Pathfinder. And, he was going to do it using queens... And, he had faked tech early on to buy just a little bit of time to switch to hydras. He played such an interesting game.
And then wham... the imbalance of Pathfinder is revealed. Fantasy can easily expand to his min only, behind his base, tanking from his main, just like the creator of this thread mentioned. He moves out with a massive metal army that only has to go 3 and a half inches to pinch all of Hydra's troops in against a wall, and I realize... "Holy f***, Hydra's may not win this."
I'm too drunk to read the rest of the posts in this thread, but I hope that plenty of people were pissed off that Hydra played so well in the first three games and lost two of them. The best part, for me, is that he played with an interesting style.
I thought the roles from the Stork v. Fantasy finals were reversed. Fantasy played predictably, and Hydra looked like he had prepared special stuff (at least for the first three games).
F*** Fantasy. He bunker rushed, got pwned, then won on an imba map. I don't even care about the fourth game. 1. Fantasy's bunker rush didn't get pwned. It did quite good damage, killed 5 drones, delayed mining, etc. It put Fantasy on a favourable position. And also, how is Hydra's decision not to mix in lings to the army and not fight when the marines were in range of all sunkens the result of an imba map? If Hydra mixed in some lings with the spare minerals he had and fought together with the sunkens with the flank he did, there was a very legitimate change that he could've destroyed that MM force. 2. As for the Pathfinder game, it's Hydra's execution that failed, and Fantasy's defense skill that prevailed (Rhyme!). Hydra could've infested the CC at the nat to delay the mineral only, and he could've had much better hydra movement than that. Also, a crucial battle point that Hydra failed to do was get rid of the tanks on the high ground. He had sufficient queens, but he rather used all the energy on low ground tanks or he got emped, or perhaps all the queens didn't have full energy. Anyways, Hydra's battle control was mediocre at best, and that's why his strategy (Which was good) didn't work. Also, it was due to Fantasy's amazing use of vultures that he was able to come back in the game. A normal terran would've died without being able to make a comeback using the vultures. And note, Hydra's gameplan after the attack was weak. He wasn't able to smoothly transition into ling/defiler, and due to that, his army simply melted against the mech army of fantasy since hydras (Hydra didn't even have dark swarm when fantasy first pushed out) melt against tanks, with or without swarm. If he had transitioned to ling/defiler sooner and more smoothly, Fantasy's push may have been destroyed and Hydra would be able to start mass producing from the starting point he took. -Edit - Also, Fantasy's detail of covering his tank with the sci. facility to defend the min. only was brilliant really. If it wasn't for that, there was a legit chance that Hydra would've been able to get a lot of workers killed or even damage the CC enough for it to be infested by the queen. Edit 2 - Hydra also could've move-control his Hydras to snipe ONE tank that was on the high ground and probably even snipe the nat CC, but once again, his battle control isn't good. 3. As for the last game, Hydra made horrible battle decisions. First, he decided to lose the majority of his lurkers while fighting against marines that were on the higher ground with the support of tanks. He even had another group of lurkers behind which he could've used for a flank/surround. His muta micro was definitely great (cutting of rines and stuff), but he lost a whole bunch of lings and all of his mutas not microng them against a group of marines, thinking they'd destroy the force easily, but the opposite happened. Hydra could've won this game if he didn't decide to engage horribly and lose the majority of his lurkers. In the whole series, Fantasy had great decision making, execution, and planning. His decision to bunker rush came from an educated guess that Hydra would 12 hatch on the map, coming from analyzing the opponent. There's a reason Hydra lost, and it's not just because of maps.
First game was over after the bunker rush with the convenient nat wall off. All sunkens except maybe one were attacking during that engagement...
Bad battle control? Really? Hydra completely outclasses Fantasy at unit control in pretty much every game. Game 1 took forever despite the bunker rush. Game 2 completely dismantled. Game 3 same thing until Fantasy stabilize after losing half his scvs, to which he decided to take 2 expos for free.
Attacking uphill and not keeping a lurker or two at 3rd ramp in game 4 were the only "real" blunders Hydra made in the series. Good effort but there's a reason why Fantasy's proleague and starleague stats differ so much. Kinda like the reverse of Bisu.
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On September 03 2011 08:54 almond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 07:24 Kalent wrote:On September 03 2011 06:59 Sirgery wrote:
Holy f***.
Just got to minute 23 of Nevake's uploaded game 3 VOD. There are only 4 VODs, so I know winner of game 3 has to win game 4...
Up through the first 22 minutes, I was thinking, "Wow, Hydra... In my opinion, you played a damn good first game, despite the bunker rush, and then your second game was terrific. Going +1 carapace early on to counter what you predicted was Fantasy's +1 push was brilliant. I like zerg because of the way you are playing. You've consistently found TINY holes in Fantasy's turret lines to make the most of your mutas, and have done some crazy stuff that makes me instantly realize how awesome you are."
(I'm typically a zerg hater.)
In the fourth game, he absolutely seemed like he was going to beat a 4-13 disadvantage on Pathfinder. And, he was going to do it using queens... And, he had faked tech early on to buy just a little bit of time to switch to hydras. He played such an interesting game.
And then wham... the imbalance of Pathfinder is revealed. Fantasy can easily expand to his min only, behind his base, tanking from his main, just like the creator of this thread mentioned. He moves out with a massive metal army that only has to go 3 and a half inches to pinch all of Hydra's troops in against a wall, and I realize... "Holy f***, Hydra's may not win this."
I'm too drunk to read the rest of the posts in this thread, but I hope that plenty of people were pissed off that Hydra played so well in the first three games and lost two of them. The best part, for me, is that he played with an interesting style.
I thought the roles from the Stork v. Fantasy finals were reversed. Fantasy played predictably, and Hydra looked like he had prepared special stuff (at least for the first three games).
F*** Fantasy. He bunker rushed, got pwned, then won on an imba map. I don't even care about the fourth game. 1. Fantasy's bunker rush didn't get pwned. It did quite good damage, killed 5 drones, delayed mining, etc. It put Fantasy on a favourable position. And also, how is Hydra's decision not to mix in lings to the army and not fight when the marines were in range of all sunkens the result of an imba map? If Hydra mixed in some lings with the spare minerals he had and fought together with the sunkens with the flank he did, there was a very legitimate change that he could've destroyed that MM force. 2. As for the Pathfinder game, it's Hydra's execution that failed, and Fantasy's defense skill that prevailed (Rhyme!). Hydra could've infested the CC at the nat to delay the mineral only, and he could've had much better hydra movement than that. Also, a crucial battle point that Hydra failed to do was get rid of the tanks on the high ground. He had sufficient queens, but he rather used all the energy on low ground tanks or he got emped, or perhaps all the queens didn't have full energy. Anyways, Hydra's battle control was mediocre at best, and that's why his strategy (Which was good) didn't work. Also, it was due to Fantasy's amazing use of vultures that he was able to come back in the game. A normal terran would've died without being able to make a comeback using the vultures. And note, Hydra's gameplan after the attack was weak. He wasn't able to smoothly transition into ling/defiler, and due to that, his army simply melted against the mech army of fantasy since hydras (Hydra didn't even have dark swarm when fantasy first pushed out) melt against tanks, with or without swarm. If he had transitioned to ling/defiler sooner and more smoothly, Fantasy's push may have been destroyed and Hydra would be able to start mass producing from the starting point he took. -Edit - Also, Fantasy's detail of covering his tank with the sci. facility to defend the min. only was brilliant really. If it wasn't for that, there was a legit chance that Hydra would've been able to get a lot of workers killed or even damage the CC enough for it to be infested by the queen. Edit 2 - Hydra also could've move-control his Hydras to snipe ONE tank that was on the high ground and probably even snipe the nat CC, but once again, his battle control isn't good. 3. As for the last game, Hydra made horrible battle decisions. First, he decided to lose the majority of his lurkers while fighting against marines that were on the higher ground with the support of tanks. He even had another group of lurkers behind which he could've used for a flank/surround. His muta micro was definitely great (cutting of rines and stuff), but he lost a whole bunch of lings and all of his mutas not microng them against a group of marines, thinking they'd destroy the force easily, but the opposite happened. Hydra could've won this game if he didn't decide to engage horribly and lose the majority of his lurkers. In the whole series, Fantasy had great decision making, execution, and planning. His decision to bunker rush came from an educated guess that Hydra would 12 hatch on the map, coming from analyzing the opponent. There's a reason Hydra lost, and it's not just because of maps. First game was over after the bunker rush with the convenient nat wall off. All sunkens except maybe one were attacking during that engagement... Bad battle control? Really? Hydra completely outclasses Fantasy at unit control in pretty much every game. Game 1 took forever despite the bunker rush. Game 2 completely dismantled. Game 3 same thing until Fantasy stabilize after losing half his scvs, to which he decided to take 2 expos for free. Attacking uphill and not keeping a lurker or two at 3rd ramp in game 4 were the only "real" blunders Hydra made in the series. Good effort but there's a reason why Fantasy's proleague and starleague stats differ so much. Kinda like the reverse of Bisu.
So Hydra's decision to engage a full-force MM with (IIRC) 2-3 tank support with pure lurker when the marines are on higher ground isn't a blunder?
And I don't think Hydra outclassed Fantasy on unit control except on mutalisk micro.
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On September 03 2011 09:09 Kalent wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 08:54 almond wrote:On September 03 2011 07:24 Kalent wrote:On September 03 2011 06:59 Sirgery wrote:
Holy f***.
Just got to minute 23 of Nevake's uploaded game 3 VOD. There are only 4 VODs, so I know winner of game 3 has to win game 4...
Up through the first 22 minutes, I was thinking, "Wow, Hydra... In my opinion, you played a damn good first game, despite the bunker rush, and then your second game was terrific. Going +1 carapace early on to counter what you predicted was Fantasy's +1 push was brilliant. I like zerg because of the way you are playing. You've consistently found TINY holes in Fantasy's turret lines to make the most of your mutas, and have done some crazy stuff that makes me instantly realize how awesome you are."
(I'm typically a zerg hater.)
In the fourth game, he absolutely seemed like he was going to beat a 4-13 disadvantage on Pathfinder. And, he was going to do it using queens... And, he had faked tech early on to buy just a little bit of time to switch to hydras. He played such an interesting game.
And then wham... the imbalance of Pathfinder is revealed. Fantasy can easily expand to his min only, behind his base, tanking from his main, just like the creator of this thread mentioned. He moves out with a massive metal army that only has to go 3 and a half inches to pinch all of Hydra's troops in against a wall, and I realize... "Holy f***, Hydra's may not win this."
I'm too drunk to read the rest of the posts in this thread, but I hope that plenty of people were pissed off that Hydra played so well in the first three games and lost two of them. The best part, for me, is that he played with an interesting style.
I thought the roles from the Stork v. Fantasy finals were reversed. Fantasy played predictably, and Hydra looked like he had prepared special stuff (at least for the first three games).
F*** Fantasy. He bunker rushed, got pwned, then won on an imba map. I don't even care about the fourth game. 1. Fantasy's bunker rush didn't get pwned. It did quite good damage, killed 5 drones, delayed mining, etc. It put Fantasy on a favourable position. And also, how is Hydra's decision not to mix in lings to the army and not fight when the marines were in range of all sunkens the result of an imba map? If Hydra mixed in some lings with the spare minerals he had and fought together with the sunkens with the flank he did, there was a very legitimate change that he could've destroyed that MM force. 2. As for the Pathfinder game, it's Hydra's execution that failed, and Fantasy's defense skill that prevailed (Rhyme!). Hydra could've infested the CC at the nat to delay the mineral only, and he could've had much better hydra movement than that. Also, a crucial battle point that Hydra failed to do was get rid of the tanks on the high ground. He had sufficient queens, but he rather used all the energy on low ground tanks or he got emped, or perhaps all the queens didn't have full energy. Anyways, Hydra's battle control was mediocre at best, and that's why his strategy (Which was good) didn't work. Also, it was due to Fantasy's amazing use of vultures that he was able to come back in the game. A normal terran would've died without being able to make a comeback using the vultures. And note, Hydra's gameplan after the attack was weak. He wasn't able to smoothly transition into ling/defiler, and due to that, his army simply melted against the mech army of fantasy since hydras (Hydra didn't even have dark swarm when fantasy first pushed out) melt against tanks, with or without swarm. If he had transitioned to ling/defiler sooner and more smoothly, Fantasy's push may have been destroyed and Hydra would be able to start mass producing from the starting point he took. -Edit - Also, Fantasy's detail of covering his tank with the sci. facility to defend the min. only was brilliant really. If it wasn't for that, there was a legit chance that Hydra would've been able to get a lot of workers killed or even damage the CC enough for it to be infested by the queen. Edit 2 - Hydra also could've move-control his Hydras to snipe ONE tank that was on the high ground and probably even snipe the nat CC, but once again, his battle control isn't good. 3. As for the last game, Hydra made horrible battle decisions. First, he decided to lose the majority of his lurkers while fighting against marines that were on the higher ground with the support of tanks. He even had another group of lurkers behind which he could've used for a flank/surround. His muta micro was definitely great (cutting of rines and stuff), but he lost a whole bunch of lings and all of his mutas not microng them against a group of marines, thinking they'd destroy the force easily, but the opposite happened. Hydra could've won this game if he didn't decide to engage horribly and lose the majority of his lurkers. In the whole series, Fantasy had great decision making, execution, and planning. His decision to bunker rush came from an educated guess that Hydra would 12 hatch on the map, coming from analyzing the opponent. There's a reason Hydra lost, and it's not just because of maps. First game was over after the bunker rush with the convenient nat wall off. All sunkens except maybe one were attacking during that engagement... Bad battle control? Really? Hydra completely outclasses Fantasy at unit control in pretty much every game. Game 1 took forever despite the bunker rush. Game 2 completely dismantled. Game 3 same thing until Fantasy stabilize after losing half his scvs, to which he decided to take 2 expos for free. Attacking uphill and not keeping a lurker or two at 3rd ramp in game 4 were the only "real" blunders Hydra made in the series. Good effort but there's a reason why Fantasy's proleague and starleague stats differ so much. Kinda like the reverse of Bisu. So Hydra's decision to engage a full-force MM with (IIRC) 2-3 tank support with pure lurker when the marines are on higher ground isn't a blunder? And I don't think Hydra outclassed Fantasy on unit control except on mutalisk micro.
Hence the "attacking uphill" part...
It's funny you say that when he won his first game with an 8 rax and second game with mech. Last game Hydra was in a decent position even after losing the uphill fight. He later crushed Fantasy's push, but lost his third for free.
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On September 03 2011 08:52 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 08:50 miky_ardiente wrote:
fantasy best matchup is tvp, he will likely remain osl champion, 2 osl golds in a row, what a boss And JangBi's best matchup is PvT, your point?
stork best matchup was also PvT
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Fantasy playing bio!! I was impressed with game 3 and 4, Fantasy really stepping it up. I want Fantasy vs Jangbi finals!!
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On September 03 2011 09:30 _Status wrote:
Fantasy playing bio!! I was impressed with game 3 and 4, Fantasy really stepping it up. I want Fantasy vs Jangbi finals!!
i want this too! :D well played by fantasy.
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now jangbang must win >< it's a like storyline too good to be true. cmon!
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Hydra really fucked up worse and worse towards game 4.
Fanta wins in 4. I knew it.
If Fanta vs Jangbi, this will be one epic finals.
If Fanta vs SoO, will end like forgg vs jaedong.
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Wished I could've watch this series live, but you can't watch em all I guess.
Good old Enigma showing his class once again when he has time to prepare for a BoX. I loved how he set the tone from the beginning with the bunker rush, and then mixed it up b/w bio and mech.
Looking forward to the SoO vs Jangbi semi now....
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
OMGOMGOGM ARGHHH hydra why you fall apart like that T_T
oh wel..
going to root for the jangbanger now
PROTOSS FIGHTING
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On September 03 2011 09:24 almond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 09:09 Kalent wrote:On September 03 2011 08:54 almond wrote:On September 03 2011 07:24 Kalent wrote:On September 03 2011 06:59 Sirgery wrote:
Holy f***.
Just got to minute 23 of Nevake's uploaded game 3 VOD. There are only 4 VODs, so I know winner of game 3 has to win game 4...
Up through the first 22 minutes, I was thinking, "Wow, Hydra... In my opinion, you played a damn good first game, despite the bunker rush, and then your second game was terrific. Going +1 carapace early on to counter what you predicted was Fantasy's +1 push was brilliant. I like zerg because of the way you are playing. You've consistently found TINY holes in Fantasy's turret lines to make the most of your mutas, and have done some crazy stuff that makes me instantly realize how awesome you are."
(I'm typically a zerg hater.)
In the fourth game, he absolutely seemed like he was going to beat a 4-13 disadvantage on Pathfinder. And, he was going to do it using queens... And, he had faked tech early on to buy just a little bit of time to switch to hydras. He played such an interesting game.
And then wham... the imbalance of Pathfinder is revealed. Fantasy can easily expand to his min only, behind his base, tanking from his main, just like the creator of this thread mentioned. He moves out with a massive metal army that only has to go 3 and a half inches to pinch all of Hydra's troops in against a wall, and I realize... "Holy f***, Hydra's may not win this."
I'm too drunk to read the rest of the posts in this thread, but I hope that plenty of people were pissed off that Hydra played so well in the first three games and lost two of them. The best part, for me, is that he played with an interesting style.
I thought the roles from the Stork v. Fantasy finals were reversed. Fantasy played predictably, and Hydra looked like he had prepared special stuff (at least for the first three games).
F*** Fantasy. He bunker rushed, got pwned, then won on an imba map. I don't even care about the fourth game. 1. Fantasy's bunker rush didn't get pwned. It did quite good damage, killed 5 drones, delayed mining, etc. It put Fantasy on a favourable position. And also, how is Hydra's decision not to mix in lings to the army and not fight when the marines were in range of all sunkens the result of an imba map? If Hydra mixed in some lings with the spare minerals he had and fought together with the sunkens with the flank he did, there was a very legitimate change that he could've destroyed that MM force. 2. As for the Pathfinder game, it's Hydra's execution that failed, and Fantasy's defense skill that prevailed (Rhyme!). Hydra could've infested the CC at the nat to delay the mineral only, and he could've had much better hydra movement than that. Also, a crucial battle point that Hydra failed to do was get rid of the tanks on the high ground. He had sufficient queens, but he rather used all the energy on low ground tanks or he got emped, or perhaps all the queens didn't have full energy. Anyways, Hydra's battle control was mediocre at best, and that's why his strategy (Which was good) didn't work. Also, it was due to Fantasy's amazing use of vultures that he was able to come back in the game. A normal terran would've died without being able to make a comeback using the vultures. And note, Hydra's gameplan after the attack was weak. He wasn't able to smoothly transition into ling/defiler, and due to that, his army simply melted against the mech army of fantasy since hydras (Hydra didn't even have dark swarm when fantasy first pushed out) melt against tanks, with or without swarm. If he had transitioned to ling/defiler sooner and more smoothly, Fantasy's push may have been destroyed and Hydra would be able to start mass producing from the starting point he took. -Edit - Also, Fantasy's detail of covering his tank with the sci. facility to defend the min. only was brilliant really. If it wasn't for that, there was a legit chance that Hydra would've been able to get a lot of workers killed or even damage the CC enough for it to be infested by the queen. Edit 2 - Hydra also could've move-control his Hydras to snipe ONE tank that was on the high ground and probably even snipe the nat CC, but once again, his battle control isn't good. 3. As for the last game, Hydra made horrible battle decisions. First, he decided to lose the majority of his lurkers while fighting against marines that were on the higher ground with the support of tanks. He even had another group of lurkers behind which he could've used for a flank/surround. His muta micro was definitely great (cutting of rines and stuff), but he lost a whole bunch of lings and all of his mutas not microng them against a group of marines, thinking they'd destroy the force easily, but the opposite happened. Hydra could've won this game if he didn't decide to engage horribly and lose the majority of his lurkers. In the whole series, Fantasy had great decision making, execution, and planning. His decision to bunker rush came from an educated guess that Hydra would 12 hatch on the map, coming from analyzing the opponent. There's a reason Hydra lost, and it's not just because of maps. First game was over after the bunker rush with the convenient nat wall off. All sunkens except maybe one were attacking during that engagement... Bad battle control? Really? Hydra completely outclasses Fantasy at unit control in pretty much every game. Game 1 took forever despite the bunker rush. Game 2 completely dismantled. Game 3 same thing until Fantasy stabilize after losing half his scvs, to which he decided to take 2 expos for free. Attacking uphill and not keeping a lurker or two at 3rd ramp in game 4 were the only "real" blunders Hydra made in the series. Good effort but there's a reason why Fantasy's proleague and starleague stats differ so much. Kinda like the reverse of Bisu. So Hydra's decision to engage a full-force MM with (IIRC) 2-3 tank support with pure lurker when the marines are on higher ground isn't a blunder? And I don't think Hydra outclassed Fantasy on unit control except on mutalisk micro. Hence the "attacking uphill" part... It's funny you say that when he won his first game with an 8 rax and second game with mech. Last game Hydra was in a decent position even after losing the uphill fight. He later crushed Fantasy's push, but lost his third for free.
I would like to point out, that in the last game the only reason Hydra could clear out T's push (at the cost of almost ALL of his units, mind) was that he brought those Lurks defending his 3rd back to fight that big battle. Of course Fanta abused this and brought his MnM task force and crushed Hydra's 3rd.
If Hydra, however, kept Lurkers there at his 3rd, he would have lost that big exchange outside his Nat, and Fanta's push would have crushed him, and he would have lost anyway.
Imo Fantasy was the better play this series.. Sure his Muta defence in game 1 was pretty messy, but i personally see game 1 dragging out that long was because he was playing safely, not that Hydra did anything special (look at how many Muta of his died during his "effective" harasses). He played game 3 well (good harasses) after that misread on the Queens.
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Hoping for a JvF finals! lol :D
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During incruit fantasy beat ggplay a cj zerg only to lose to stork a khan toss in the finals. This osl he beat hydra a cj zerg, would he face jangbi a khan toss in the finals as well?
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On September 03 2011 14:19 GoodRamen wrote:
During incruit fantasy beat ggplay a cj zerg only to lose to stork a khan toss in the finals. This osl he beat hydra a cj zerg, would he face jangbi a khan toss in the finals as well?
During incruit he use Fantasy Build. This time he went BIO. If fantasy can bio, he may as well be flash, therefore, he will win.
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On September 03 2011 09:28 miky_ardiente wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 08:52 Xiphos wrote:On September 03 2011 08:50 miky_ardiente wrote:
fantasy best matchup is tvp, he will likely remain osl champion, 2 osl golds in a row, what a boss And JangBi's best matchup is PvT, your point? stork best matchup was also PvT
Somehow, I feel that Jangbi would do better than Stork against Fantasy.
That's just a feeling though.
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On September 03 2011 12:11 Release wrote:
Hydra really fucked up worse and worse towards game 4.
Fanta wins in 4. I knew it.
If Fanta vs Jangbi, this will be one epic finals.
If Fanta vs SoO, will end like forgg vs jaedong.
Royal Roader all the way? Not bad.
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Loved the games, especially since I cheered for Fantasy. It would be amazing if he could get another OSL gold. His trophy cabinet is starting to look impressive 
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aaa i overslept =(
fantasy won is good, btw nice banner 
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