On August 12 2011 22:08 playa wrote: Great game plan by flash and execution. Jangbi's intentions seemed good, and it would have been nice to see him coordinate his attacks to make things interesting, but... losing 3 goons to mines when your observer is sooo close by was just so inexcusable and game-ending against someone like Flash.
no, it was not a game ending) like many already pointed out, what was Jangbi's plan? Make goons, harass with shuttles, Go carriers? Tooo flat. 1. Make goons - Yes 2. Harass - No 3. Carriers - doesn't matter if harass was denied completely. Whenever toss shuttle play fails to do enough damage to terran, it is already a gg, going carrriers can only speed it up. You won't have enough units to stop the push due to shuttle harass fail, you will not have them more cause of carriers. So it was pretty sealed.
Then again, if the shuttle harass succeeds, you can seal the game right there. Check out Stork vs. Hiya on Pathfinder + Show Spoiler [VOD] +
. Fantasy dismantled this play in the OSL finals beating Stork 3-0. I don't recall if it was because of denied harass or some timing push designed to deny Stork a quick third. Best usually doesn't rely on harass. Instead he makes a dragoon and follows it up with a quick third. Like a boss.
On August 12 2011 22:04 LRM)TechnicS wrote: can anyone tell me what is Flash's stats T v P on 2 player maps?
i had a quick look and since the start of 2009 it's 17-11, losses being:
- 1 to free in a series he won - 1 to kal in a series he won - 1 to free in PL - 1 to stork in osl group stage in osl he won - 2 to bisu in wcg qualifiers - 1 to kal in PL - 1 to backho in PL somehow - 1 to jangbi in PL - 2 to bisu in series loss
Oh my god, Flash seriously beasted that game... Jangbis build was good too and nice lead @ start. Also heard Fantasy vs hyuk was epic but I missed all of it but the end T_T
On August 12 2011 22:04 LRM)TechnicS wrote: can anyone tell me what is Flash's stats T v P on 2 player maps?
i had a quick look and since the start of 2009 it's 17-11, losses being:
- 1 to free in a series he won - 1 to kal in a series he won - 1 to free in PL - 1 to stork in osl group stage in osl he won - 2 to bisu in wcg qualifiers - 1 to kal in PL - 1 to backho in PL somehow - 1 to jangbi in PL - 2 to bisu in series loss
That can't be right, BeSt has beaten Flash several times in last two years. I also suspect Flash has played more games than that.
On August 12 2011 22:08 playa wrote: Great game plan by flash and execution. Jangbi's intentions seemed good, and it would have been nice to see him coordinate his attacks to make things interesting, but... losing 3 goons to mines when your observer is sooo close by was just so inexcusable and game-ending against someone like Flash.
no, it was not a game ending) like many already pointed out, what was Jangbi's plan? Make goons, harass with shuttles, Go carriers? Tooo flat. 1. Make goons - Yes 2. Harass - No 3. Carriers - doesn't matter if harass was denied completely. Whenever toss shuttle play fails to do enough damage to terran, it is already a gg, going carrriers can only speed it up. You won't have enough units to stop the push due to shuttle harass fail, you will not have them more cause of carriers. So it was pretty sealed.
Then again, if the shuttle harass succeeds, you can seal the game right there. Check out Stork vs. Hiya on Pathfinder + Show Spoiler [VOD] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laEQYJcWIn4
. Fantasy dismantled this play in the OSL finals beating Stork 3-0. I don't recall if it was because of denied harass or some timing push designed to deny Stork a quick third. Best usually doesn't rely on harass. Instead he makes a dragoon and follows it up with a quick third. Like a boss.
damn right. Shuttle play is very subtle strategy, I remember the times when Bisu could just outclass the terran right there with a sublime shuttle play. Its not that easy nowadays. Tosses are choking without any new ideas now, sleeping on the veteran shoulders it almost seems like they just stopped developing. Does anybody agree?
On August 12 2011 22:04 LRM)TechnicS wrote: can anyone tell me what is Flash's stats T v P on 2 player maps?
i had a quick look and since the start of 2009 it's 17-11, losses being:
- 1 to free in a series he won - 1 to kal in a series he won - 1 to free in PL - 1 to stork in osl group stage in osl he won - 2 to bisu in wcg qualifiers - 1 to kal in PL - 1 to backho in PL somehow - 1 to jangbi in PL - 2 to bisu in series loss
That can't be right, BeSt has beaten Flash several times in last two years. I also suspect Flash has played more games than that.
And a quick visit to TLPD will show that Best has never beaten Flash on a two-player map. All of the wins were on three- or four-player maps.
On August 12 2011 22:04 LRM)TechnicS wrote: can anyone tell me what is Flash's stats T v P on 2 player maps?
i had a quick look and since the start of 2009 it's 17-11, losses being:
- 1 to free in a series he won - 1 to kal in a series he won - 1 to free in PL - 1 to stork in osl group stage in osl he won - 2 to bisu in wcg qualifiers - 1 to kal in PL - 1 to backho in PL somehow - 1 to jangbi in PL - 2 to bisu in series loss
That can't be right, BeSt has beaten Flash several times in last two years. I also suspect Flash has played more games than that.
i have no idea what happened with jangbi vs stork because i was talking to a friend
saw flash push out with 6ish tanks and a handful of vultures and marines and i saw his push held relatively easily by jangbi. then both players macro'd up, jangbi was a little ahead flash and then suddenly flash comes out with 20 supply more than jangbi and rolls him with a death ball. wtf happened?
On August 12 2011 23:48 Motivate wrote: i have no idea what happened with jangbi vs stork because i was talking to a friend
saw flash push out with 6ish tanks and a handful of vultures and marines and i saw his push held relatively easily by jangbi. then both players macro'd up, jangbi was a little ahead flash and then suddenly flash comes out with 20 supply more than jangbi and rolls him with a death ball. wtf happened?
On August 12 2011 22:04 LRM)TechnicS wrote: can anyone tell me what is Flash's stats T v P on 2 player maps?
i had a quick look and since the start of 2009 it's 17-11, losses being:
- 1 to free in a series he won - 1 to kal in a series he won - 1 to free in PL - 1 to stork in osl group stage in osl he won - 2 to bisu in wcg qualifiers - 1 to kal in PL - 1 to backho in PL somehow - 1 to jangbi in PL - 2 to bisu in series loss
That can't be right, BeSt has beaten Flash several times in last two years. I also suspect Flash has played more games than that.
But this data is only for 2-player maps.
Ah, my mistake! Didn't notice you posting 2player maps only! =)
it seemed like the shuttle harass was what cost him the game. really too bad they were all scarab duds because if not, flash would have been delayed a lot. i cringed at the double shuttle harass because it seemed that shuttle speed delayed his third quite significantly. certainly a risk that didn't pay off.
also, i have no idea why his templars weren't protected in shuttles either. those emps completely sealed the game right there.
I don't know what's gotten into Killer, but he's suddenly looking amazing. I honestly don't think I've ever seen better ZvZ, even when Jaedong was dominating the match-up. Killer's making it look like 9-pool is the counter to everything.
One imagines that if he keeps 9-pooling, people will eventually figure out a way to stop him, but they haven't yet.
EPT
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