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On June 16 2011 06:02 Mumei wrote:I was just looking at Flash's vZ page, and noticed that it has been about 3.5 months since Flash lost to a Zerg not named Jaedong. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lhsd8.jpg)
and calm was playing zvt to his full potential that game 
But making excuses for flash is dumb, if he lost he lost.
Arguing that best is better than flash is just... dumb. Fanboy or not you cant argue with results
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I dont think any1 ever said that BeSt is the better play, at least not in this thread -.-.. People simply find the the need to argue and fight everytime Flash's name is not accompanied with praises and reverence.
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Just watched the vods, omg sky and him genuinely smiling! So proud :D
e: oh and poor mafia boss! he looked so defeated 
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There is absolutely no point comparing a Terran player to a Protoss player, they do not play the same race, there's no way to compare, end of discussion.
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gonna guess the interviews aren't going to be done? . Times like these I wish I knew korean 
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You can compare their haircuts, and whether they are awesome or not
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Comparing Flash vs Best is hard because its two different races...but you can tell how much difficulty he is against his opponents and the impact he has made on the pro scene by how many semi/final appearances and awards they've won, and we all know who won that.
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On June 16 2011 07:30 Archers_bane wrote:
Comparing Flash vs Best is hard because its two different races...but you can tell how much difficulty he is against his opponents and the impact he has made on the pro scene by how many semi/final appearances and awards they've won, and we all know who won that.
They do not play the same race, they are not comparable both game-wise and result-wise. Let's say beSt has better macro than Flash but how the heck can we compare Protoss macro and Terran macro ??? And let's say Flash won much more golds than BeSt but he doesn't play the same race as BeSt, how can we say those "results" are fair for BeSt ??? In fact there is no absolute way to compare, and thus they are not comparable.
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So, Best has 0 titles just because he plays Protoss?
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How did this turn into a Flash vs BeSt discussion, in a KT vs Oz thread? -_-
Ah okay, thanks. I was wondering if anyone was going to translate the DES interviews, though, since those might contain stuff different from fomos.
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Baa?21248 Posts
On June 16 2011 06:14 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 06:02 Mumei wrote:I was just looking at Flash's vZ page, and noticed that it has been about 3.5 months since Flash lost to a Zerg not named Jaedong. and calm was playing zvt to his full potential that game But making excuses for flash is dumb, if he lost he lost. Arguing that best is better than flash is just... dumb. Fanboy or not you cant argue with results
That Calm game was a thing of beauty ^_^
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On June 16 2011 07:50 Holgerius wrote:
So, Best has 0 titles just because he plays Protoss?
And why not ? In fact how can you know he wouldn't win titles if he didn't start with P ? I can say he would have won against July and won his title if he had not been a Protoss, and he would not get eliminated by Zergs in indv leagues later. The point is, there is no way to compare a P to a T, since every criterias can be rendered pointless because of the racial difference.
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Holy shit, I'm not discussing with anyone using such arguments. I'm outta here.
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On June 16 2011 07:55 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:How did this turn into a Flash vs BeSt discussion, in a KT vs Oz thread? -_- Ah okay, thanks. I was wondering if anyone was going to translate the DES interviews, though, since those might contain stuff different from fomos.
Flash lost a game, KT fanboys made excuses and SKT fanboys felt the need to bring up BeSt>Flash. It's very simple, really did you not see it coming?
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On June 16 2011 08:16 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 07:55 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:How did this turn into a Flash vs BeSt discussion, in a KT vs Oz thread? -_- On June 16 2011 01:25 kuroshiroi wrote:On June 16 2011 00:53 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:
Is anyone planning to translate the winner's interviews? They're already on Fomos, Jaedong and Hiya, Killer and Sky Ah okay, thanks. I was wondering if anyone was going to translate the DES interviews, though, since those might contain stuff different from fomos. Flash lost a game, KT fanboys made excuses and SKT fanboys felt the need to bring up BeSt>Flash. It's very simple, really did you not see it coming?
Haha, now that you mention it, I suppose I should've expected this.
Does this match mean that KT won't secure a 1st or 2nd seed for PL playoffs?
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Really tight set of games. I really wish Lomo would win though even if he is on my anti team ): .
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 16 2011 01:22 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 00:51 WWJDD wrote:On June 16 2011 00:28 DarkMatter_ wrote:On June 16 2011 00:26 WWJDD wrote:On June 15 2011 14:50 Release wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 WWJDD wrote:On June 15 2011 14:33 konadora wrote:On June 15 2011 14:28 iLoveKT wrote:
what the hell was that at 9 flash... probably expected the standard build but jaedong played smart, he knew flash will do this and that he cant defend the 2nd expo, thus he sacrificed expo for a timed attack, making use of the fact that with the army out, flash will have less units to defend in the main Well stated Sir. Flash kinda got ahead of himself, and got overagressive. I was waiting for somebody to break Flash's 14cc after scout build, and it looks like JD managed to do just that. effort game 5. We all know which game i'm talking about. No. Effort game 5 was blind 14cc. Flash adapted to that loss by devising the scouted 14cc, and Jaedong lost to it every single time. Nobody won against Flash when he did the 14cc after early scout. This is the first time he lost. WCG Korea game 2 (on Polaris Rhapsody). Flash went 14CC and lost. Also, game 4 of Bigfile MSL on Triathlon. Jaedong went 9 pool but Flash's scouting SCV didn't first JD's base on its first try. And those are only games against Jaedong. There have been other players that have beaten him when he went 14cc (Flash vs. Zero on Benzene comes to mind). The argument is not about 14cc at all. It's scouted 14cc vs unscouted 14cc. Yeah, and you claimed he never lost when he did a scouted 14CC until yesterday's game, and I'm giving you examples where he did. o_O
My bad. You were right on the money.
In my defense, I was macroing work, sports radio, a rubik's cube and lunch and my TL micro slipped a bit.
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On June 16 2011 01:17 danl9rm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 12:55 Dakkas wrote:
As unfortunate as it is for me to say but if Dong is sent against Flash then he's going to get rolled completely. Revenge for the group of death! aaaahAHAHAHA! JAEDONGGGGGGGGG!!
My words have been eaten. And they were very bitter
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On June 16 2011 04:55 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 04:32 Ermac wrote:On June 16 2011 04:14 Kenpachi wrote:
Jaedong figured out Flash!? No, he just caught him off guard imho. Flash had his M&M force at JD's potential third but instead Jaedong went for an all-inish 2 base muta/ling attack. I feel like it was more of a desperation move by JD. There's no way he could have known Flash would leave his forces at the other end of the map. If he actually did scout it it's a different matter, but as far as I could see it that wasn't the case. He knew Flash's army didn't retreat, because after that group of MnM left Flash's base, Jaedong had a control group of lings waiting outside Flash's natural. Jaedong decided to ignore that group of MnM and take advantage of the fact that Flash had minimal defenses in his main. I don't know what you mean by calling it a desperation move. You make it sound like he just a-moved his entire army into Flash's base with the blind hope that Flash didn't have sufficient defense. He saw an opening in Flash's defense and exploited it with some aggressive play.
On June 16 2011 05:15 Hero.SP wrote:
No, he didn't know. If he would know he would send mutas and lings at the same time. Lings did a runby, passing trough bunker.
Jaedong had very good intel on Flash's army the whole game due to the constant ling probes. (Incidentally, that made it worth it even when he was apparently just suiciding them into the firebats).
The other thing the ling harass accomplished was maintaining scouting on and control of the map. When Jaedong's mutas came out he knew most of Flash's army wasn't at the main. I think he went in with maybe fewer mutas than he might have waited for otherwise, and that was a "snap decision", but not "desperation": it was based on scouting. While it's true he didn't attack with the lings immediately, I think if he had he would have just suicided them into the bunker & small army at the nat, which would be ineffective as an attack. Once Flash pulled the army away from his nat choke to defend against the mutas, the lings came in and did their thing.
(Since someone brought up BeSt: I'd compare this to the game against BeSt where Flash tried his pre-emptive EMP trick, only to find that BeSt had macro'd up more templar than expected when the armies engaged, and lose. Flash here tried to stall the 3rd (probably a map-specific strategy due to the problems of dealing with a spread-out Zerg on Aztec in mid-game and later), which he did. But he still lost to Jaedong's scouting, reaction, and (apparently) getting some mutas out faster than Flash anticipated the attack coming.)
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On June 15 2011 18:02 Koka-kola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 14:36 champignones wrote:
its funny all these people talk about the great zvt from jaedong when he only won by a muta lame attack, tell me when he win flash in a long macro game and we will talk about having good zvt. JD won macro games from FLash many times, in fact, it is Flash who got quick timing wins from JD, lol. If you watch their games carefully you'll agree with that, whenever JD plays macro against Flash he wins , and watch their WCG match on Tau Cross) When JD went down to 120 or so supply, and Flash still had like 180. wow, what a game!
I definitely feel like it's Jaedong who has the upper-hand in a lategame very standard bio TvZ. Including that Tau Cross game and the game in the blackout MSLs.
Meanwhile Flash now has a whole series of title wins based on eco-risk midgame pushes which are invincible to almost any Z player. Plus a lot of other strange mindgame games too. However i favour Jaedong in a straight up lategame equal bio TvZ on a fair map. His multitasking pushes it over the edge, in my opinion.
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EPT
