On June 16 2011 01:43 DarkMatter_ wrote: SKT definitely has a big advantage in preparation for proleague matches because they have many potential snipers against players like Flash and Jaedong, and also their players generally haven't been getting far in individual leagues which pretty much means they almost exclusively prepare for proleague.
Why are people even bringing up Best? He's such a one-dimensional player. The one time where Flash actually came well prepared, Best got embarrassed. In fact, I think Bisu has a much better chance at beating Flash in a Bo5 compared to Best.
Which one time? The first game of the season? Im sure Flash had plenty of time to rest n prepare since its the first game of the whole season, Indiv leagues havnt even started yet at the time.
No point arguing on "if"s and excuses (or reasons, from your perspective).. You believe in Flash' absolute domination, and i don't, so i guess we will just have to agree to disagree. To Flash defence, he is one of the few who were crowned Bonjwa, and that speak volumes about his strength. But there are players who have played a non-trivial amount of game vs him (Jaedong, BeSt, Stork) and came out ahead overall, my point is just that.
On June 15 2011 23:47 ffreakk wrote: Facts are Flash is having a losing head-to-head vs Jaedong.
No? Flash - JD // 24 wins - 23 losses (51.06%)
They're talking about standard league games on TLPD, which is 22 - 21 in Jaedong's favor. Even if you did count the GOM Star Invitation (and I have no idea if you should or not), I don't think anyone would seriously argue that the All-Star game should count.
That said, the WCG LA games from last year aren't even listed in TLPD, and Flash won that series 2 - 1.
On June 16 2011 01:43 DarkMatter_ wrote: SKT definitely has a big advantage in preparation for proleague matches because they have many potential snipers against players like Flash and Jaedong, and also their players generally haven't been getting far in individual leagues which pretty much means they almost exclusively prepare for proleague.
Why are people even bringing up Best? He's such a one-dimensional player. The one time where Flash actually came well prepared, Best got embarrassed. In fact, I think Bisu has a much better chance at beating Flash in a Bo5 compared to Best.
Which one time? The first game of the season? Im sure Flash had plenty of time to rest n prepare since its the first game of the whole season, Indiv leagues havnt even started yet at the time.
No point arguing on "if"s and excuses (or reasons, from your perspective).. You believe in Flash' absolute domination, and i don't, so i guess we will just have to agree to disagree. To Flash defence, he is one of the few who were crowned Bonjwa, and that speak volumes about his strength. But there are players who have played a non-trivial amount of game vs him (Jaedong, BeSt, Stork) and came out ahead overall, my point is just that.
I think it's the one where Flash owned best with dropships to the point where best was almost in tears. Just type in spl flash vs best, you should find it. Flash completely destroys best.
On June 16 2011 04:14 Kenpachi wrote: Jaedong figured out Flash!?
No, he just caught him off guard imho.
Flash had his M&M force at JD's potential third but instead Jaedong went for an all-inish 2 base muta/ling attack. I feel like it was more of a desperation move by JD. There's no way he could have known Flash would leave his forces at the other end of the map.
If he actually did scout it it's a different matter, but as far as I could see it that wasn't the case.
On June 16 2011 01:43 DarkMatter_ wrote: SKT definitely has a big advantage in preparation for proleague matches because they have many potential snipers against players like Flash and Jaedong, and also their players generally haven't been getting far in individual leagues which pretty much means they almost exclusively prepare for proleague.
Why are people even bringing up Best? He's such a one-dimensional player. The one time where Flash actually came well prepared, Best got embarrassed. In fact, I think Bisu has a much better chance at beating Flash in a Bo5 compared to Best.
Which one time? The first game of the season? Im sure Flash had plenty of time to rest n prepare since its the first game of the whole season, Indiv leagues havnt even started yet at the time.
No point arguing on "if"s and excuses (or reasons, from your perspective).. You believe in Flash' absolute domination, and i don't, so i guess we will just have to agree to disagree. To Flash defence, he is one of the few who were crowned Bonjwa, and that speak volumes about his strength. But there are players who have played a non-trivial amount of game vs him (Jaedong, BeSt, Stork) and came out ahead overall, my point is just that.
I think it's the one where Flash owned best with dropships to the point where best was almost in tears. Just type in spl flash vs best, you should find it. Flash completely destroys best.
Yea i know he was talking about that game, but that was what? In the middle of the season? How can that compare to the amount of preparation that Flash had on the very first match of the season?
On June 16 2011 04:14 Kenpachi wrote: Jaedong figured out Flash!?
No, he just caught him off guard imho.
Flash had his M&M force at JD's potential third but instead Jaedong went for an all-inish 2 base muta/ling attack. I feel like it was more of a desperation move by JD. There's no way he could have known Flash would leave his forces at the other end of the map.
If he actually did scout it it's a different matter, but as far as I could see it that wasn't the case.
He knew Flash's army didn't retreat, because after that group of MnM left Flash's base, Jaedong had a control group of lings waiting outside Flash's natural. Jaedong decided to ignore that group of MnM and take advantage of the fact that Flash had minimal defenses in his main.
I don't know what you mean by calling it a desperation move. You make it sound like he just a-moved his entire army into Flash's base with the blind hope that Flash didn't have sufficient defense. He saw an opening in Flash's defense and exploited it with some aggressive play.
On June 16 2011 01:43 DarkMatter_ wrote: SKT definitely has a big advantage in preparation for proleague matches because they have many potential snipers against players like Flash and Jaedong, and also their players generally haven't been getting far in individual leagues which pretty much means they almost exclusively prepare for proleague.
Why are people even bringing up Best? He's such a one-dimensional player. The one time where Flash actually came well prepared, Best got embarrassed. In fact, I think Bisu has a much better chance at beating Flash in a Bo5 compared to Best.
Which one time? The first game of the season? Im sure Flash had plenty of time to rest n prepare since its the first game of the whole season, Indiv leagues havnt even started yet at the time.
No point arguing on "if"s and excuses (or reasons, from your perspective).. You believe in Flash' absolute domination, and i don't, so i guess we will just have to agree to disagree. To Flash defence, he is one of the few who were crowned Bonjwa, and that speak volumes about his strength. But there are players who have played a non-trivial amount of game vs him (Jaedong, BeSt, Stork) and came out ahead overall, my point is just that.
I think it's the one where Flash owned best with dropships to the point where best was almost in tears. Just type in spl flash vs best, you should find it. Flash completely destroys best.
Yea i know he was talking about that game, but that was what? In the middle of the season? How can that compare to the amount of preparation that Flash had on the very first match of the season?
Sad to burst your bubble, but the first game of the season was only about a week after WCG grand finals, where flash had claimed that he had been shopping the whole time. He also spent some time rescuing Kal, and playing on WCG maps (destination for example) while Best was probably practicing on the proleague maps(like icarus). I think it's important to know that no one has beaten Flash is a best of series in over a year. (minus the WCG korea finals where he mismicroed SCVs) The Nate MSL series between the two shows that Flash is indeed superior to best.
I like both Flash and BeSt, but I feel like the Flash fanboys are getting kind of ridiculous. Yes, Flash is obviously a better player than BeSt. BeSt is a macro monster and has managed to take a few games off of Flash. Why do people feel the need to jump to Flash's defense constantly whenever he loses a game? BeSt outplayed Flash a few times, even though Flash is considerably better overall and would most likely beat BeSt in a BO5. Not sure why there needs to be a huge argument about it...
Edit: Of course, people are defending BeSt as well, but I'm somehow more annoyed by the Flash fanboys because it seems to be an ongoing trend whenever he happens to lose...
On June 16 2011 03:58 blubbdavid wrote: Finally, was about time. Maybe he pretended a slump just to humiliate Flash even farther. But nothing against Flash...+ Show Spoiler +
Just kidding, as a JD-fan I know how you feel right now. Several days ago, it was the same for me.
Lol, I'm not a Flash fanboy, just a fan. At least JD's back in form - I support JD as well. I'm not so much a supporter of one team/player, just good Starcraft in general.
On June 16 2011 01:43 DarkMatter_ wrote: SKT definitely has a big advantage in preparation for proleague matches because they have many potential snipers against players like Flash and Jaedong, and also their players generally haven't been getting far in individual leagues which pretty much means they almost exclusively prepare for proleague.
Why are people even bringing up Best? He's such a one-dimensional player. The one time where Flash actually came well prepared, Best got embarrassed. In fact, I think Bisu has a much better chance at beating Flash in a Bo5 compared to Best.
Which one time? The first game of the season? Im sure Flash had plenty of time to rest n prepare since its the first game of the whole season, Indiv leagues havnt even started yet at the time.
No point arguing on "if"s and excuses (or reasons, from your perspective).. You believe in Flash' absolute domination, and i don't, so i guess we will just have to agree to disagree. To Flash defence, he is one of the few who were crowned Bonjwa, and that speak volumes about his strength. But there are players who have played a non-trivial amount of game vs him (Jaedong, BeSt, Stork) and came out ahead overall, my point is just that.
I think it's the one where Flash owned best with dropships to the point where best was almost in tears. Just type in spl flash vs best, you should find it. Flash completely destroys best.
Yea i know he was talking about that game, but that was what? In the middle of the season? How can that compare to the amount of preparation that Flash had on the very first match of the season?
No, wait, what? Are you talking about that season or this season? It seems you're saying Flash didn't have much preparation in the middle of the season, which only goes to support our point more.
On June 16 2011 01:43 DarkMatter_ wrote: SKT definitely has a big advantage in preparation for proleague matches because they have many potential snipers against players like Flash and Jaedong, and also their players generally haven't been getting far in individual leagues which pretty much means they almost exclusively prepare for proleague.
Why are people even bringing up Best? He's such a one-dimensional player. The one time where Flash actually came well prepared, Best got embarrassed. In fact, I think Bisu has a much better chance at beating Flash in a Bo5 compared to Best.
Which one time? The first game of the season? Im sure Flash had plenty of time to rest n prepare since its the first game of the whole season, Indiv leagues havnt even started yet at the time.
No point arguing on "if"s and excuses (or reasons, from your perspective).. You believe in Flash' absolute domination, and i don't, so i guess we will just have to agree to disagree. To Flash defence, he is one of the few who were crowned Bonjwa, and that speak volumes about his strength. But there are players who have played a non-trivial amount of game vs him (Jaedong, BeSt, Stork) and came out ahead overall, my point is just that.
Flash is the most superior player since oov when he is specifically preparing for one player. It's why he 3-0'd his "counter" in Best in MSL (which you seem either unaware of or don't remember), why he has beaten Jaedong in their last 3 Bo5s, and why he solemnly crushed zero and hydra in MSL. It is completely reasonable for him to drop some games when people prepare specifically for him, especially in fashions such as this. Hyuk's freaking beaten him with midgame all-ins before, anyone can lose to stuff like this. Jaedong's execution just makes it far more likely to work.
Flash would be nigh unstoppable without the phantom pairings that proleague was forced to do. I guess we can thank savior for that, lol.
On June 15 2011 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Jaedong > Flash Best > Flash :D
just realised. at this point, flash has a losing record against best AND jaedong.
It's pretty meaningless when you consider how he does against them in a series.
I believe that's an even 3-3 in BO5s.
That's probably true...but series as a whole includes Bo3s, and Flash displays quite a dominance in that categoy... Off the top of my head: Bacchus 08, Intel Classic, Ever 09, and (I think) the most recent WCG, right?
Both are incredibly skilled BoX players, so it's always interesting to analyze the preparation and execution involved in their matches.
MY GOSH!!! I was having a bad day but just saw the results and couldn't help but smile! He really needed this more than Flash (although I like Flash too ahhh)
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lhsd8.jpg)
