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On June 15 2011 14:48 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Like, who thinks it's a good idea to go 3 base off one gateway where one of your bases is a base that can be killed by 2 siegetanks behind a damn cliff.
DO NOT SEND NON TERRANS ON BELTWAY. IT'S DUMB.
There's nothing wrong with sending protosses on Beltway. Carriers are pretty good. It's just that Stats chose a terrible strategy.
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GOod to see JD smiling again.
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Fuck yeah, Oz too good for KT.
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That was just bad play on stats part he didnt make enough gateway. They need to take a page out of best play book. Best seriously knows when to expand and how many gateway to throw up to defend against T push............which is why he is the BEST.
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send lomo to finish it, humiliation victory haha
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On June 15 2011 14:50 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 14:48 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Like, who thinks it's a good idea to go 3 base off one gateway where one of your bases is a base that can be killed by 2 siegetanks behind a damn cliff.
DO NOT SEND NON TERRANS ON BELTWAY. IT'S DUMB. There's nothing wrong with sending protosses on Beltway. Carriers are pretty good. It's just that Stats chose a terrible strategy.
What? Terran gets an unstoppable 3 base and protoss has no good way to take a third. It is a plain bad map to play against terran on. He did an incredibly risky strategy because you don't win on that map without something clever.
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On June 15 2011 14:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 14:39 konadora wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 15 2011 14:37 Winechu wrote:On June 15 2011 14:35 disciple wrote:
how the game went imo:
JD opens with early game ling aggression, Flash sees it coming and block it on the ramp outside of his natural. JD is behind on drones and economy so he decides to 2 base all-in. For some reason Flash thinks JD would take a 3rd on 9 o'clock and gets his entire army there and leaves 2 firebats in the bunker outside of his nat. JD goes in with muta, and flash seems to have enough turrets. JD brings in a control group of lings to clean up and turrets while it takes half a day for flash to bring back his forces from 9 o'clock. GG It was aggressive, but it wasn't an all-in IMO Definitely all-in. 14cc vs. forced to mass two groups of lings, 2 sunkens, and no third? Definitely all-in :3 wouldn't be enough to call it all-in, tbh If that attack did anything less than kill like 20 SCVs and a bazillion marines, Jaedong would've lost :3 Pretty all-in ;o
all-in is such a misused word
all-in means if the attack doesnt win the game then the all-iner loses. you just admitted yourself the attack wasn't all-in by saying "20 scvs/a lot of marines" isn't killing the opponent
the term "all-in" itself is a dumb word anyway, nothing is "all-in" if you think about it. as long as you do equal damage that you put into it its cost effective.
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On June 15 2011 14:52 Motivate wrote:
send lomo to finish it, humiliation victory haha
Nah, lomo already lost to CH lol
But it seems like OZ got this today, don't see KT taking this.
No hope for the play-offs 
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nice e-bay/rax goon sniping by stats u_u
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On June 15 2011 14:46 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 14:39 champignones wrote:On June 15 2011 14:37 blade55555 wrote:On June 15 2011 14:36 champignones wrote:
its funny all these people talk about the great zvt from flash when he only won by a muta lame attack, tell me when he win flash in a long macro game and we will talk about having good zvt. tell me when flash stops making mistakes so that jaedong doesn't have to kill him early, then we can have a good zvt  this only proves flash messed up big time and thats it, jd will gain my respect again when he win flash in a BO5 in a league final or semifinal ,but i promise you he will lose as he always do against flash. well he's not going to let flash get away with 14 cc, and being super greedy like he was. That is suicide due to terran having a way better economy. So you count a macro game where flash is ahead in economy from the get go? No that isn't how it should work, so till Flash stops being so greedy (moving his force over to the third + making a bunker to make it so jaedong would be way behind while also 14 CC'ing). He deserves to lose.
flash could hold that attack regarding he made 14 cc , his mistake was that he divide his forces in order to try to deny third, and jaedong simply took advantage and went for the main. as i told you this shows nothing about jaedong skill at all, this only shows he .... does mutalisk?, i wanted to see defiler swarm terran advancing retreating, etc. if jaedong would have won in that way then i would say his zvt is just godly like the last time they play when he clearly outmacroed flash, unfortunately flash wasnt able to show his late game play due to that mistake.
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On June 15 2011 14:52 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 14:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 konadora wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 15 2011 14:37 Winechu wrote:On June 15 2011 14:35 disciple wrote:
how the game went imo:
JD opens with early game ling aggression, Flash sees it coming and block it on the ramp outside of his natural. JD is behind on drones and economy so he decides to 2 base all-in. For some reason Flash thinks JD would take a 3rd on 9 o'clock and gets his entire army there and leaves 2 firebats in the bunker outside of his nat. JD goes in with muta, and flash seems to have enough turrets. JD brings in a control group of lings to clean up and turrets while it takes half a day for flash to bring back his forces from 9 o'clock. GG It was aggressive, but it wasn't an all-in IMO Definitely all-in. 14cc vs. forced to mass two groups of lings, 2 sunkens, and no third? Definitely all-in :3 wouldn't be enough to call it all-in, tbh If that attack did anything less than kill like 20 SCVs and a bazillion marines, Jaedong would've lost :3 Pretty all-in ;o all-in is such a misused word all-in means if the attack doesnt win the game then the all-iner loses. you just admitted yourself the attack wasn't all-in by saying "20 scvs/a lot of marines" isn't killing the opponent the term "all-in" itself is a dumb word anyway, nothing is "all-in" if you think about it. as long as you do equal damage that you put into it its cost effective.
You just admitted you don't know what killing your opponent is when you think that killing their entire army and 2/3rds of their workers isn't killing them. It was all in -- if a zerg uses only 3 hatches to make nothing but units and skips drones and goes from mutas directly to lurkers without taking a third it is a straight all in. There is nothing embarassing or shameful about doing an all in.
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On June 15 2011 14:52 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 14:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 konadora wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 15 2011 14:37 Winechu wrote:On June 15 2011 14:35 disciple wrote:
how the game went imo:
JD opens with early game ling aggression, Flash sees it coming and block it on the ramp outside of his natural. JD is behind on drones and economy so he decides to 2 base all-in. For some reason Flash thinks JD would take a 3rd on 9 o'clock and gets his entire army there and leaves 2 firebats in the bunker outside of his nat. JD goes in with muta, and flash seems to have enough turrets. JD brings in a control group of lings to clean up and turrets while it takes half a day for flash to bring back his forces from 9 o'clock. GG It was aggressive, but it wasn't an all-in IMO Definitely all-in. 14cc vs. forced to mass two groups of lings, 2 sunkens, and no third? Definitely all-in :3 wouldn't be enough to call it all-in, tbh If that attack did anything less than kill like 20 SCVs and a bazillion marines, Jaedong would've lost :3 Pretty all-in ;o all-in is such a misused word all-in means if the attack doesnt win the game then the all-iner loses. you just admitted yourself the attack wasn't all-in by saying "20 scvs/a lot of marines" isn't killing the opponent the term "all-in" itself is a dumb word anyway, nothing is "all-in" if you think about it. as long as you do equal damage that you put into it its cost effective.
although you're 100% correct, i doubt many will really listen haha
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Hiya is 4/4 this round, showing how it's done!
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what are the recommendations for flash vs JD? cant believe i forgot about this match up -_-
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On June 15 2011 14:52 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 14:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 konadora wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 15 2011 14:37 Winechu wrote:On June 15 2011 14:35 disciple wrote:
how the game went imo:
JD opens with early game ling aggression, Flash sees it coming and block it on the ramp outside of his natural. JD is behind on drones and economy so he decides to 2 base all-in. For some reason Flash thinks JD would take a 3rd on 9 o'clock and gets his entire army there and leaves 2 firebats in the bunker outside of his nat. JD goes in with muta, and flash seems to have enough turrets. JD brings in a control group of lings to clean up and turrets while it takes half a day for flash to bring back his forces from 9 o'clock. GG It was aggressive, but it wasn't an all-in IMO Definitely all-in. 14cc vs. forced to mass two groups of lings, 2 sunkens, and no third? Definitely all-in :3 wouldn't be enough to call it all-in, tbh If that attack did anything less than kill like 20 SCVs and a bazillion marines, Jaedong would've lost :3 Pretty all-in ;o all-in is such a misused word all-in means if the attack doesnt win the game then the all-iner loses. you just admitted yourself the attack wasn't all-in by saying "20 scvs/a lot of marines" isn't killing the opponent the term "all-in" itself is a dumb word anyway, nothing is "all-in" if you think about it. as long as you do equal damage that you put into it its cost effective.
In other words, If you can transition out of something into a viable build, it is not all-in.
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On June 15 2011 14:54 champignones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 14:46 blade55555 wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 champignones wrote:On June 15 2011 14:37 blade55555 wrote:On June 15 2011 14:36 champignones wrote:
its funny all these people talk about the great zvt from flash when he only won by a muta lame attack, tell me when he win flash in a long macro game and we will talk about having good zvt. tell me when flash stops making mistakes so that jaedong doesn't have to kill him early, then we can have a good zvt this only proves flash messed up big time and thats it, jd will gain my respect again when he win flash in a BO5 in a league final or semifinal ,but i promise you he will lose as he always do against flash. well he's not going to let flash get away with 14 cc, and being super greedy like he was. That is suicide due to terran having a way better economy. So you count a macro game where flash is ahead in economy from the get go? No that isn't how it should work, so till Flash stops being so greedy (moving his force over to the third + making a bunker to make it so jaedong would be way behind while also 14 CC'ing). He deserves to lose. flash could hold that attack regarding he made 14 cc , his mistake was that he divide his forces in order to try to deny third, and jaedong simply took advantage and went for the main. as i told you this shows nothing about jaedong skill at all, this only shows he .... does mutalisk?, i wanted to see defiler swarm terran advancing retreating, etc. if jaedong would have won in that way then i would say his zvt is just godly like the last time they play when he clearly outmacroed flash, unfortunately flash wasnt able to show his late game play due to that mistake.
I want to see it to i'm just saying letting flash do all that is being greedy and should be punished. Like I said he sent most of his forces and made a bunker at jaedongs third to deny it longer then normal and be that much more ahead economically. Instead Jaedong punishes him (whether by scouting or by luck) and wins.
Just like jaedong deserved to lose when he was mass expanding while making no units then flash would come out and kill him in like alot of the finals. He deserved to lose for being to greedy just like flash, flash didn't beat him in a macro game, jaedong lost because he was being to greedy like flash trying to get a huge advantage to where if flash let it go untouched, would be rolled over like a pancake.
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On June 15 2011 14:54 champignones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 14:46 blade55555 wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 champignones wrote:On June 15 2011 14:37 blade55555 wrote:On June 15 2011 14:36 champignones wrote:
its funny all these people talk about the great zvt from flash when he only won by a muta lame attack, tell me when he win flash in a long macro game and we will talk about having good zvt. tell me when flash stops making mistakes so that jaedong doesn't have to kill him early, then we can have a good zvt this only proves flash messed up big time and thats it, jd will gain my respect again when he win flash in a BO5 in a league final or semifinal ,but i promise you he will lose as he always do against flash. well he's not going to let flash get away with 14 cc, and being super greedy like he was. That is suicide due to terran having a way better economy. So you count a macro game where flash is ahead in economy from the get go? No that isn't how it should work, so till Flash stops being so greedy (moving his force over to the third + making a bunker to make it so jaedong would be way behind while also 14 CC'ing). He deserves to lose. flash could hold that attack regarding he made 14 cc , his mistake was that he divide his forces in order to try to deny third, and jaedong simply took advantage and went for the main. as i told you this shows nothing about jaedong skill at all, this only shows he .... does mutalisk?, i wanted to see defiler swarm terran advancing retreating, etc. if jaedong would have won in that way then i would say his zvt is just godly like the last time they play when he clearly outmacroed flash, unfortunately flash wasnt able to show his late game play due to that mistake.
Too bad. Don't blame JD for Flash's stupidity. He outthought himself and lost.
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On June 15 2011 14:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 14:52 tbrown47 wrote:On June 15 2011 14:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 konadora wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 15 2011 14:37 Winechu wrote:On June 15 2011 14:35 disciple wrote:
how the game went imo:
JD opens with early game ling aggression, Flash sees it coming and block it on the ramp outside of his natural. JD is behind on drones and economy so he decides to 2 base all-in. For some reason Flash thinks JD would take a 3rd on 9 o'clock and gets his entire army there and leaves 2 firebats in the bunker outside of his nat. JD goes in with muta, and flash seems to have enough turrets. JD brings in a control group of lings to clean up and turrets while it takes half a day for flash to bring back his forces from 9 o'clock. GG It was aggressive, but it wasn't an all-in IMO Definitely all-in. 14cc vs. forced to mass two groups of lings, 2 sunkens, and no third? Definitely all-in :3 wouldn't be enough to call it all-in, tbh If that attack did anything less than kill like 20 SCVs and a bazillion marines, Jaedong would've lost :3 Pretty all-in ;o all-in is such a misused word all-in means if the attack doesnt win the game then the all-iner loses. you just admitted yourself the attack wasn't all-in by saying "20 scvs/a lot of marines" isn't killing the opponent the term "all-in" itself is a dumb word anyway, nothing is "all-in" if you think about it. as long as you do equal damage that you put into it its cost effective. You just admitted you don't know what killing your opponent is when you think that killing their entire army and 2/3rds of their workers isn't killing them. It was all in -- if a zerg uses only 3 hatches to make nothing but units and skips drones and goes from mutas directly to lurkers without taking a third it is a straight all in. There is nothing embarassing or shameful about doing an all in.
That isn't "all-in" though. All in means ALL or NOTHING, win or lose, etc. If he did enough damage, but Flash still survived, the game could've transitioned into something somewhat normal.
If you invest, for example, 1000 minerals and 500 gas into an early attack by not expanding/teching then you deal 1000 minerals and 500 gas with that attack, then you didn't kill your opponent or kill yourself. You are on an even footing. I understand what people mean when they say "all-in", it is just a stupid word to describe the form of play, imo.
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On June 15 2011 14:56 WWJDD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 14:52 tbrown47 wrote:On June 15 2011 14:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 konadora wrote:On June 15 2011 14:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 15 2011 14:37 Winechu wrote:On June 15 2011 14:35 disciple wrote:
how the game went imo:
JD opens with early game ling aggression, Flash sees it coming and block it on the ramp outside of his natural. JD is behind on drones and economy so he decides to 2 base all-in. For some reason Flash thinks JD would take a 3rd on 9 o'clock and gets his entire army there and leaves 2 firebats in the bunker outside of his nat. JD goes in with muta, and flash seems to have enough turrets. JD brings in a control group of lings to clean up and turrets while it takes half a day for flash to bring back his forces from 9 o'clock. GG It was aggressive, but it wasn't an all-in IMO Definitely all-in. 14cc vs. forced to mass two groups of lings, 2 sunkens, and no third? Definitely all-in :3 wouldn't be enough to call it all-in, tbh If that attack did anything less than kill like 20 SCVs and a bazillion marines, Jaedong would've lost :3 Pretty all-in ;o all-in is such a misused word all-in means if the attack doesnt win the game then the all-iner loses. you just admitted yourself the attack wasn't all-in by saying "20 scvs/a lot of marines" isn't killing the opponent the term "all-in" itself is a dumb word anyway, nothing is "all-in" if you think about it. as long as you do equal damage that you put into it its cost effective. In other words, If you can transition out of something into a viable build, it is not all-in.
Take the example of the Fast DT or 2 port wraith... you are behind economically but if you do some damage you can make transition to boost your economy, and deny oponent's
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hyo/sky vs. Tempest. Ugh.
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EPT
