On April 22 2011 10:28 BlackMagister wrote: I haven't read the entire LR thread but it seems like Bisu's decision to go Carriers vs Flash in game 2 was influenced by his All Stars game vs Flash and ended pretty badly lol.
When Flash said to Bisu: "This is how you use carrier!" It no doubt had an effect on Bisu. Bius is a player that really cares about his image, for a T to show you how to use carriers(and actually good at it), it's a very embarrassing situation.
One thing to note is that Flash knew EXACTLY the timing of Bisu's carrier because he build the carrier building before the scan finished.
can i just ask, why do dumb terrans always move out with like 10 marines and a couple medics against a full control group of mutas and lings? what can they hope to achieve before siege tanks come out? i reckon 1/2 of the tvz losses i see come from terrans moving out when they shouldn't. there is NO REASON you should move out before siege tanks come out when your opponent has a full control group of mutas and lings wandering around the map. of course you're going to get surrounded. flash (who's supposed to have the best tvz, but now i'm thinking light has better game sense in that match up) did that mistake TWICE.
On April 22 2011 11:19 radialis wrote: can i just ask, why do dumb terrans always move out with like 10 marines and a couple medics against a full control group of mutas and lings? what can they hope to achieve before siege tanks come out? i reckon 1/2 of the tvz losses i see come from terrans moving out when they shouldn't. there is NO REASON you should move out before siege tanks come out when your opponent has a full control group of mutas and lings wandering around the map. of course you're going to get surrounded. flash (who's supposed to have the best tvz, but now i'm thinking light has better game sense in that match up) did that mistake TWICE.
On April 22 2011 11:19 radialis wrote: can i just ask, why do dumb terrans always move out with like 10 marines and a couple medics against a full control group of mutas and lings? what can they hope to achieve before siege tanks come out? i reckon 1/2 of the tvz losses i see come from terrans moving out when they shouldn't. there is NO REASON you should move out before siege tanks come out when your opponent has a full control group of mutas and lings wandering around the map. of course you're going to get surrounded. flash (who's supposed to have the best tvz, but now i'm thinking light has better game sense in that match up) did that mistake TWICE.
It's easier to fight the mutas in open spaces rather than through cliffs or the sim city of your own base. The mistake Flash and Sea made was using too few units IMO.
If the terran can hold with the group of rines in open spaces (thus preventing the mutas from getting at their SCVs) taking minimal damage from the initial muta ball, they secure a huge mid-game advantage.
On April 22 2011 11:19 radialis wrote: can i just ask, why do dumb terrans always move out with like 10 marines and a couple medics against a full control group of mutas and lings? what can they hope to achieve before siege tanks come out? i reckon 1/2 of the tvz losses i see come from terrans moving out when they shouldn't. there is NO REASON you should move out before siege tanks come out when your opponent has a full control group of mutas and lings wandering around the map. of course you're going to get surrounded. flash (who's supposed to have the best tvz, but now i'm thinking light has better game sense in that match up) did that mistake TWICE.
It's easier to fight the mutas in open spaces rather than through cliffs or the sim city of your own base. The mistake Flash and Sea made was using too few units IMO.
If the terran can hold with the group of rines in open spaces (thus preventing the mutas from getting at their SCVs) taking minimal damage from the initial muta ball, they secure a huge mid-game advantage.
To be honest though, I've seen Flash pwn muta ling with a low MnM count, and Jaedong's muta/ling micro was the best I've seen from him in awhile
On April 22 2011 07:35 Yxes2211 wrote: Was it just me or did Flash look kinda shaky in WL finals and this group. I don't mean like slumping shaky, but just that something is off in his game. I feel like he doesn't look as comfortable as he did say... a month or two ago.
On April 22 2011 06:28 CoffeeJelly wrote: - Explain about your match against Jaedong in the winners match. ▲ I didn't prepare anything special against Jaedong. I was very confident I would win, because it was a vZ on Circuit Breaker. Jaedong played very good today, and I wasn't feeling particularly confident going into lategame. Even though I had one armor and one attack upgrade, I lost all my forces easily and it discouraged me greatly. After the match, I didn't even have the will to think about the next one. I started panicing.
I'm surprised Flash wasn't feeling that confident going into lategame, since his lategame TvZ is usually quite strong.
Meaning etc got lost as this translation went from KR -> CN -> ENG. Plus, Circuit Breaker is really amazing for lategame terran in tvz. -_- Anyways, here's snippet from Daniel Lee's translation of this question.
What was it like to face Jaedong in the winner’s bracket. There is nothing else to say other than that I had an immense amount of confidence in facing him, no other reason than the fact that the I was facing against a zerg on a circuit breaker map. However Jaedong Hyung played so well, and I wasn’t able to show my confident play in the later game, so there is feeling that lingers over that. I was 1-1upgraded and I shouldn’t have lost the fight that easily. I was in a state of panic when it was all over and didn’t even think about the games in the final bracket.
Ah okay, that makes a lot more sense then. I can't understand the original interviews, only the Chinese translations.
The Chinese translation literally says the same thing as Daniel Lee's translation.
On April 21 2011 21:00 Kenpachi wrote: Bisu attacks his own nexus? mutiny
all pros does this, even Flash. This is to release the interceptors before a fight
WTF LOL!
Uh he is actually 100% serious. That way goliaths don't autotarget carrier when it comes into sight.
goliaths autotarget interceptors, its why hold position micro works. I think his WTF LOL was referencing why someone would say "even flash" when talking about toss mechanics, obviously whiterabb1t hasnt seen flash vs bisu allstars game
On April 21 2011 21:00 Kenpachi wrote: Bisu attacks his own nexus? mutiny
all pros does this, even Flash. This is to release the interceptors before a fight
WTF LOL!
Uh he is actually 100% serious. That way goliaths don't autotarget carrier when it comes into sight.
It's not to get the goliaths to autotarget interceptors, it's to get the interceptors out before a fight. Interceptors don't enter carriers when the carriers are moving, so you can keep your group of carriers constantly moving and have them hanging under the carriers so when you want to attack, they all swarm out instantly and blow stuff up, instead of coming out one at a time when they're being unloaded from the carrier.
On April 22 2011 11:19 radialis wrote: can i just ask, why do dumb terrans always move out with like 10 marines and a couple medics against a full control group of mutas and lings? what can they hope to achieve before siege tanks come out? i reckon 1/2 of the tvz losses i see come from terrans moving out when they shouldn't. there is NO REASON you should move out before siege tanks come out when your opponent has a full control group of mutas and lings wandering around the map. of course you're going to get surrounded. flash (who's supposed to have the best tvz, but now i'm thinking light has better game sense in that match up) did that mistake TWICE.
Back in 2009/2010 Flash was playing TvZ with his one rax into CC, into 3 rax if 3 hatch muta or 4 rax if 2 hatch. The whole goal of the build being for flash to deny or straight up destroy the zergs third.
While this isnt the build Flash played vs jaedong, today such builds have worked wonders in the past.
On April 22 2011 11:19 radialis wrote: can i just ask, why do dumb terrans always move out with like 10 marines and a couple medics against a full control group of mutas and lings? what can they hope to achieve before siege tanks come out? i reckon 1/2 of the tvz losses i see come from terrans moving out when they shouldn't. there is NO REASON you should move out before siege tanks come out when your opponent has a full control group of mutas and lings wandering around the map. of course you're going to get surrounded. flash (who's supposed to have the best tvz, but now i'm thinking light has better game sense in that match up) did that mistake TWICE.
Back in 2009/2010 Flash was playing TvZ with his one rax into CC, into 3 rax if 3 hatch muta or 4 rax if 2 hatch. The whole goal of the build being for flash to deny or straight up destroy the zergs third.
While this isnt the build Flash played vs jaedong, today such builds have worked wonders in the past.
Yeah, It was pretty much his entire EVER OSL vZ build. 1rax CC. Deny the third, kill the mutas, sunken bust, win. Of course, this type of build is weak vs large amounts of zerglings w/mutas, which is how effort beat Flash in the bigfile msl.
On April 22 2011 11:19 radialis wrote: can i just ask, why do dumb terrans always move out with like 10 marines and a couple medics against a full control group of mutas and lings? what can they hope to achieve before siege tanks come out? i reckon 1/2 of the tvz losses i see come from terrans moving out when they shouldn't. there is NO REASON you should move out before siege tanks come out when your opponent has a full control group of mutas and lings wandering around the map. of course you're going to get surrounded. flash (who's supposed to have the best tvz, but now i'm thinking light has better game sense in that match up) did that mistake TWICE.
Some Terrans prefer to use their initial MnMs to see if they can apply pressure and delay the 3rd, and sometimes even killing the 3rd and secure a huge lead. It also keeps Mutas away from your base, which is good. However, it is of course very risky, and if your micro slips for even a few seconds, zerg can pick off a few marines, which can actually mean a huge difference, since the loss of a few marines can lead to the loss of the whole group, since after zerg picks off enough marines (which is like 4 at that timing) he can just a-move his mutaling and surround your ball.
EPT
