On April 22 2011 11:19 radialis wrote: can i just ask, why do dumb terrans always move out with like 10 marines and a couple medics against a full control group of mutas and lings? what can they hope to achieve before siege tanks come out? i reckon 1/2 of the tvz losses i see come from terrans moving out when they shouldn't. there is NO REASON you should move out before siege tanks come out when your opponent has a full control group of mutas and lings wandering around the map. of course you're going to get surrounded. flash (who's supposed to have the best tvz, but now i'm thinking light has better game sense in that match up) did that mistake TWICE.
Back in 2009/2010 Flash was playing TvZ with his one rax into CC, into 3 rax if 3 hatch muta or 4 rax if 2 hatch. The whole goal of the build being for flash to deny or straight up destroy the zergs third.
While this isnt the build Flash played vs jaedong, today such builds have worked wonders in the past.
Case & Point
Yeah, It was pretty much his entire EVER OSL vZ build. 1rax CC. Deny the third, kill the mutas, sunken bust, win. Of course, this type of build is weak vs large amounts of zerglings w/mutas, which is how effort beat Flash in the bigfile msl.
I honestly miss those days haha. (of flash doing 1 rax every game)
Yeah it was brutally effective.. admittedly I hadn't taken into account the extra lings. I'm guessing with effort and jaedong they increased it from the old standard of about 6-8 to about 12-16?
Honestly I wonder how things would pan out if flash did the exact same build from those days but swap out a round or at least a few of the medics for firebats
Lings is the earliest imba unit of zerg. You pay only 25 for it and it owns a marine 1v1. Why not to make profit of it? It's era of "total starcraft" so all timing / unit advantages of a race must be used if you want to win.
I guess zerg can find how to not let terran deny you a 3rd base with carefully balancing early drones, lings and mutas. And seeing so many good ideas by Zerg (SK's queens, Shine's build in game 1, Jaedong's early muta-ling pwnage) makes me feel good about the perspectives of the race. ^^
On April 22 2011 15:32 _Quasar_ wrote: Lings is the earliest imba unit of zerg. You pay only 25 for it and it owns a marine 1v1. Why not to make profit of it? It's era of "total starcraft" so all timing / unit advantages of a race must be used if you want to win.
I guess zerg can find how to not let terran deny you a 3rd base with carefully balancing early drones, lings and mutas. And seeing so many good ideas by Zerg (SK's queens, Shine's build in game 1, Jaedong's early muta-ling pwnage) makes me feel good about the perspectives of the race. ^^
On April 21 2011 21:00 Kenpachi wrote: Bisu attacks his own nexus? mutiny
all pros does this, even Flash. This is to release the interceptors before a fight
WTF LOL!
Uh he is actually 100% serious. That way goliaths don't autotarget carrier when it comes into sight.
It's not to get the goliaths to autotarget interceptors, it's to get the interceptors out before a fight. Interceptors don't enter carriers when the carriers are moving, so you can keep your group of carriers constantly moving and have them hanging under the carriers so when you want to attack, they all swarm out instantly and blow stuff up, instead of coming out one at a time when they're being unloaded from the carrier.
Obviously I have! Don't you find it funny that Flash's name is mentioned to discuss a Protoss mechanic. Just the same, things like this are standard progamer stuff, meaning more or less everyone knows some mechanics of every race regardless of the race they play, the same way that JD knows exactly that the 2-3 medics in the first control MM group vs zerg are always split at the end and middle for optimal stim. It was just funny in general.
On April 22 2011 15:32 _Quasar_ wrote: Lings is the earliest imba unit of zerg. You pay only 25 for it and it owns a marine 1v1. Why not to make profit of it? It's era of "total starcraft" so all timing / unit advantages of a race must be used if you want to win.
I guess zerg can find how to not let terran deny you a 3rd base with carefully balancing early drones, lings and mutas. And seeing so many good ideas by Zerg (SK's queens, Shine's build in game 1, Jaedong's early muta-ling pwnage) makes me feel good about the perspectives of the race. ^^
where is your zerg icon? traitor
i play terran recently because the ever-incredible Lee Jae Dong did so and it was awesome.
On April 22 2011 11:19 radialis wrote: can i just ask, why do dumb terrans always move out with like 10 marines and a couple medics against a full control group of mutas and lings? what can they hope to achieve before siege tanks come out? i reckon 1/2 of the tvz losses i see come from terrans moving out when they shouldn't. there is NO REASON you should move out before siege tanks come out when your opponent has a full control group of mutas and lings wandering around the map. of course you're going to get surrounded. flash (who's supposed to have the best tvz, but now i'm thinking light has better game sense in that match up) did that mistake TWICE.
Because by sacrificing the first mnm group the terran usually can trade reasonably equally while allowing ample time to put up defenses back at home. Flash first unveiled this on HBR vs (Hero maybe? Some lesser zerg anyway).
If the zerg doesn't concentrate on this mnm group they're in big trouble.
I had to leave my dorm for lab as JD v Flash began (thought about skipping, but we are graded on attendance), and I didn't want to miss the games. Luckily physics labs are easy, and have computers there, so I booted it up, and watched flash vs bisu (and the end of sea vs bisu) while pretending to help my group. One person in my group asked if it was starcraft and then said, "i haven't seen it in a while, but I used to like Jaedong," which made me smile. Some one from another group yelled across the room "hey, is that from the most recent MSL?" I saw a few other people completely fixed on the screen instead of doing the assignment. I was surprised that there were people who knew of pro starcraft.
Although there was another guy in my group who said "I've never seen this version of starcraft." He followed it up sometime later with, "why aren't they playing starcraft 2?"
"Because this is a more in depth game and they get payed hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Why would they play starcraft two?"
On April 23 2011 03:46 hacklebeast wrote: Fun story:
I had to leave my dorm for lab as JD v Flash began (thought about skipping, but we are graded on attendance), and I didn't want to miss the games. Luckily physics labs are easy, and have computers there, so I booted it up, and watched flash vs bisu (and the end of sea vs bisu) while pretending to help my group. One person in my group asked if it was starcraft and then said, "i haven't seen it in a while, but I used to like Jaedong," which made me smile. Some one from another group yelled across the room "hey, is that from the most recent MSL?" I saw a few other people completely fixed on the screen instead of doing the assignment. I was surprised that there were people who knew of pro starcraft.
Although there was another guy in my group who said "I've never seen this version of starcraft." He followed it up sometime later with, "why aren't they playing starcraft 2?"
"Because this is a more in depth game and they get payed hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Why would they play starcraft two?"
"Because it has better graphics."
-__-
haha, one guy from Belarus who I know, said that on one of his labs his teacher was watching Fantasy vs Soulkey with him :DDDD
On April 23 2011 03:46 hacklebeast wrote: Fun story:
I had to leave my dorm for lab as JD v Flash began (thought about skipping, but we are graded on attendance), and I didn't want to miss the games. Luckily physics labs are easy, and have computers there, so I booted it up, and watched flash vs bisu (and the end of sea vs bisu) while pretending to help my group. One person in my group asked if it was starcraft and then said, "i haven't seen it in a while, but I used to like Jaedong," which made me smile. Some one from another group yelled across the room "hey, is that from the most recent MSL?" I saw a few other people completely fixed on the screen instead of doing the assignment. I was surprised that there were people who knew of pro starcraft.
Although there was another guy in my group who said "I've never seen this version of starcraft." He followed it up sometime later with, "why aren't they playing starcraft 2?"
"Because this is a more in depth game and they get payed hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Why would they play starcraft two?"
"Because it has better graphics."
-__-
haha, one guy from Belarus who I know, said that on one of his labs his teacher was watching Fantasy vs Soulkey with him :DDDD
lol at that last guy's answers. -___-
Haha, I wish there were people I could watch SC with around here @ UMich. Sadly, I just got here recently, so I don't know anyone here who still watches BW.
On April 23 2011 03:46 hacklebeast wrote: Fun story:
I had to leave my dorm for lab as JD v Flash began (thought about skipping, but we are graded on attendance), and I didn't want to miss the games. Luckily physics labs are easy, and have computers there, so I booted it up, and watched flash vs bisu (and the end of sea vs bisu) while pretending to help my group. One person in my group asked if it was starcraft and then said, "i haven't seen it in a while, but I used to like Jaedong," which made me smile. Some one from another group yelled across the room "hey, is that from the most recent MSL?" I saw a few other people completely fixed on the screen instead of doing the assignment. I was surprised that there were people who knew of pro starcraft.
Although there was another guy in my group who said "I've never seen this version of starcraft." He followed it up sometime later with, "why aren't they playing starcraft 2?"
"Because this is a more in depth game and they get payed hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Why would they play starcraft two?"
"Because it has better graphics."
-__-
haha, one guy from Belarus who I know, said that on one of his labs his teacher was watching Fantasy vs Soulkey with him :DDDD
lol at that last guy's answers. -___-
Haha, I wish there were people I could watch SC with around here @ UMich. Sadly, I just got here recently, so I don't know anyone here who still watches BW.
On topic, I'm kind of surprised at just how brutal Jaedong's ZvT was that day. I was literally in shock. Flash looked really badly shaken in the waiting room after the winner's match.
On April 23 2011 03:46 hacklebeast wrote: Fun story:
I had to leave my dorm for lab as JD v Flash began (thought about skipping, but we are graded on attendance), and I didn't want to miss the games. Luckily physics labs are easy, and have computers there, so I booted it up, and watched flash vs bisu (and the end of sea vs bisu) while pretending to help my group. One person in my group asked if it was starcraft and then said, "i haven't seen it in a while, but I used to like Jaedong," which made me smile. Some one from another group yelled across the room "hey, is that from the most recent MSL?" I saw a few other people completely fixed on the screen instead of doing the assignment. I was surprised that there were people who knew of pro starcraft.
Although there was another guy in my group who said "I've never seen this version of starcraft." He followed it up sometime later with, "why aren't they playing starcraft 2?"
"Because this is a more in depth game and they get payed hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Why would they play starcraft two?"
"Because it has better graphics."
-__-
haha, one guy from Belarus who I know, said that on one of his labs his teacher was watching Fantasy vs Soulkey with him :DDDD
lol at that last guy's answers. -___-
Haha, I wish there were people I could watch SC with around here @ UMich. Sadly, I just got here recently, so I don't know anyone here who still watches BW.
On topic, I'm kind of surprised at just how brutal Jaedong's ZvT was that day. I was literally in shock. Flash looked really badly shaken in the waiting room after the winner's match.
The Dong tore each of these Terrans apart like a Zergling does a Marine, it was actually quite one-sided(something which I have not seen from the Dong in a while ESPECIALLY versus these kinds of players).
I also just noticed that my predictions were 100% right. + Show Spoiler +
FUCK YEAH
Offtopic:You think that is bad, think living in the Netherlands, where noone watches Starcraft
How happy am I to witness some utter dongminance from my absolute favorite player of all time!
From JD fan point of view the game against Flash was quite perfect. Just winning here, winning there, winning everywhere. And that bad gg timing of Flash! He knew that game was just too much rape for him to gg straight away... Twas a good day to be jd fan.
Have to say, Bisu gave that last game up quite fast. I'd have to guess he didn't have much hope of winning it in the first place. I liquibetted for him to win the last game so I was quite disappoint.
And how can you not feel bad for Sea and Bisu... Much too brilliant players to disqualify on the round of 32.
I hope whoever wins this MSL will make one hell of a group for great and Hydra on the next one.
EPT
You pay only 25 for it and it owns a marine 1v1. Why not to make profit of it? 
It's era of "total starcraft" so all timing / unit advantages of a race must be used if you want to win. 
