On April 22 2011 11:19 radialis wrote: can i just ask, why do dumb terrans always move out with like 10 marines and a couple medics against a full control group of mutas and lings? what can they hope to achieve before siege tanks come out? i reckon 1/2 of the tvz losses i see come from terrans moving out when they shouldn't. there is NO REASON you should move out before siege tanks come out when your opponent has a full control group of mutas and lings wandering around the map. of course you're going to get surrounded. flash (who's supposed to have the best tvz, but now i'm thinking light has better game sense in that match up) did that mistake TWICE.
Back in 2009/2010 Flash was playing TvZ with his one rax into CC, into 3 rax if 3 hatch muta or 4 rax if 2 hatch. The whole goal of the build being for flash to deny or straight up destroy the zergs third.
While this isnt the build Flash played vs jaedong, today such builds have worked wonders in the past.
Case & Point
Yeah, It was pretty much his entire EVER OSL vZ build. 1rax CC. Deny the third, kill the mutas, sunken bust, win. Of course, this type of build is weak vs large amounts of zerglings w/mutas, which is how effort beat Flash in the bigfile msl.
I honestly miss those days haha. (of flash doing 1 rax every game)
Yeah it was brutally effective.. admittedly I hadn't taken into account the extra lings. I'm guessing with effort and jaedong they increased it from the old standard of about 6-8 to about 12-16?
Honestly I wonder how things would pan out if flash did the exact same build from those days but swap out a round or at least a few of the medics for firebats
There was no deviation from standard build wise, typical JD early third which he feels comfortable defending with just mutas and lings. I suggest you watch the sunken count, then you will see hew JD could afford the extra stuff. Sunkens are fucking expensive. I guess the thought that he might lose his mobile force and that he would need static defences to fall back on never crossed his mind. Against Flash. Über mentality.
On April 23 2011 03:46 hacklebeast wrote: Fun story:
I had to leave my dorm for lab as JD v Flash began (thought about skipping, but we are graded on attendance), and I didn't want to miss the games. Luckily physics labs are easy, and have computers there, so I booted it up, and watched flash vs bisu (and the end of sea vs bisu) while pretending to help my group. One person in my group asked if it was starcraft and then said, "i haven't seen it in a while, but I used to like Jaedong," which made me smile. Some one from another group yelled across the room "hey, is that from the most recent MSL?" I saw a few other people completely fixed on the screen instead of doing the assignment. I was surprised that there were people who knew of pro starcraft.
Although there was another guy in my group who said "I've never seen this version of starcraft." He followed it up sometime later with, "why aren't they playing starcraft 2?"
"Because this is a more in depth game and they get payed hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Why would they play starcraft two?"
"Because it has better graphics."
-__-
haha, one guy from Belarus who I know, said that on one of his labs his teacher was watching Fantasy vs Soulkey with him :DDDD
lol at that last guy's answers. -___-
Haha, I wish there were people I could watch SC with around here @ UMich. Sadly, I just got here recently, so I don't know anyone here who still watches BW.
On topic, I'm kind of surprised at just how brutal Jaedong's ZvT was that day. I was literally in shock. Flash looked really badly shaken in the waiting room after the winner's match.
I'm sure you can find someone. Actually a friend of mine is doing math PhD there and he plays & watches BW and SC2 games.
On April 24 2011 12:33 shucklesors wrote: this is probably by far the longest-paged thread for Ro32 in TL history
No shit. It has more pages than most Starleague finals.
this whole group felt like a finals anyway (to me at least), so much hype surrounding it.
Imagine now if we get a Calm vs Horang2 finals...
xD
about zerglings - I think Zerg players now more and more favor lings over sunkens.
What for will you need those extra drones instead of lings, if you aren't able to secure your third? Where are they going to mine lol?
Typically you will at first time have to defend your natural or third with muta-lings only. The big problem with sunks is that 1 medic > 1 sunken. Lings don't have this problem. If there are firebats, careful muta micro can a-click them out of this world. And as medics have generally much lower numbers than marines, medics can't heal all marines at the same time, while zerglings CAN ATTACK all marines. And there are also mutas.
So... seems that pros decide that lings > sunkens. And that's nice. :D
forgot to add... lings are better just because it's all about mobility... I mean you can't "run" with your sunkens and defend your third lol. And lings can. :D
EPT
