EPTBoxer and Yellow and what they showed in ogn semi - Page 3
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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kuwakJai
Thailand198 Posts
On November 12 2004 11:28 rei wrote: I loved that game, it's also promoted by that wcg music video. Dude boxer himself said in the interview that he work on that build very hard, and partice alot with the help of many people, including beating julyzerg 5 straight. and surely julyzerg knows boxer is ganna do the same shit all those 5 games in partice game, and july still lost. which means the build boxer came up with is well refined and like boxer said in his interview, he's confident on low unit count micro games. he playing toward his strength of his game play by forcing yellow to micro war with him early. you mention the word "cheese" alot, I assume that what you meant by "cheese" is when a strategy is a do or die, and more often it will fail than succese by catching your foe off gaurd. But Boxer's strategy succesed more often than it failed. in fact it appearently didn't fail once even without the "catching your foe off gaurd" part of it when he's particing vs julyzerg. so what you said about boxer's build is not refined and special and it's just a "basic cheese"(you meaning every noob can do the same like boxer did) is completely false. You are owned in logic, since boxer's build is not a do or die build, he only "do" but never did he "die" once. so you can't call his bulid a cheese. it's a strong strategy with low failing rate due to his superior micro ability is none parallel by anyone. as for your comment on yellow don't think boxer will use that same strategy every game, and just got kill every single time. No yellow do know what boxer is doing, yellow know that if he survive boxer's "do or die" strategy he will give boxer the "die" part of boxer's own strategy. yellow's counting on it, but he failed to realize he played right intot he strength of boxer's game which is low unit count micro intensive game. It wasn't a "mental war" , it wasn't "yellow don't expect it" it was yellow try to beat boxer in his own game but failed. and you have to respect yellow for his effort. Althought i think for yellow's part he is little foolhardy to challenge boxer in micro war. nice post | ||
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On November 12 2004 12:11 hasuwar wrote: Is there something in the air today? Build a barracks on 8, make two marines, and attack with 6 scvs..what the hell do you have to practice in this strategy? Stay out of a line to a resource so he can\'t hit attack? Yes, any newb can beat 9 drones with 6 scvs, two marines, and an upcoming bunker if you ask me It\'s not strong because of his super leet micro (not to say that he doesn\'t have it), it\'s strong because the zerg got caught with his pants down every time and had to fight with drones only.. Yes, I\'m sure yellow knew boxer was going to do this everytime, and that his secret plan was to try to beat back 6 scvs, a bunker, and marines with drones only to win..are you that fuckin\' stupid? I\'d be pretty pissed off if I was yellow..they always seem so friendly in the pictures and shit..for him to cheese him every game and not try to play one straight game with him was pretty fuckin sad You really upsad? i grade i\'d pissed you off, cause it\'s hard to achieve just by one post, i feel joy in pissing you off boy. your counters to my points are : (1)why would yellow choose to fight boxer with drones only instead of making lings fast and not expanding. (2) i\'m fucking stupid. I can understand why you don\'t get why yellow did what he done, your understanding of the game is not yet at that level. here let me enlight you, since none of the other gosus in this forum is going to waste time to help you understand. you first point why yellow choose to fight boxer with drones and expanding while knowing boxer is using the same strategy every game. here is why. first you need to understand boxer\'s mind set, which you ignored even when people tell you to read boxer\'s interview. boxer want micro intensive low unit count games. thi is what i think what\'s ganna happen when yellow choose to go off one base with lings to stop the rush. first boxer will realize oh nooo lings!!! that\'s many lings yes? so that\'s one base with many lings and not many drones. i just move my scv back to mine and get firebat and medics fast with very few scvs mining.and then yellow recon boxer\'s shit and goes like, crap he\'s powering up units i better make more lings and delay my tec so i dont\' get rape easly. so both got low economy and both of them is going to micro their ass off with the units they have. but now boxer has firebats medics and marines, while yellow got lings and mroe lings. so they go micro war just as boxer expected, but now boxer got even more advantage cause he has better units to micro with. so it ends up with the same goal boxer wanted to achieve, which is low unit count, micro war. that is the best possible sanario i can think off that\'s to yellow\'s advantage. but in the interview boxer mention he beat julyzerg 5 game straight with same build, now julyzerg is known to play very aggrassive early. that means he use 9 pools almost every game. now yellow has to make his pool even earlier? to have a chance to not follow julyzerg\'s footsteps yes? and you said any noobs can kill 9 drones+sunken comming with 6 scvs and 2 marines+bunker comming? you want to micro those 6scvs and 2marines vs any of the big name gosues in this forum and try your luck? see if it\'s as easy as you say? as for your second counter, which is a personal insult of me being stupid. my intellegence has nothing to do with the fact. my post is back up by boxer himself on hi interview. i said the boxer\'s strategy isn\'t a cheese and he worked hard on, which is according to boxer himself. and you deny that by calling me stupid and give no other reason. oh wait, i was wrong, you didn\'t insult me of being stupid, you said fucking stupid. now the word fucking is a complement to the word stupid, so it seems that it enhance the word stupid by relating to the action fuck. let\'s say that fuck is enjoyable yes? hard to imagine if you would say otherwise, but you just might do it just to disagree with me. now since fucking is enjoyable, then you are saying i\'m enjoying my stupidity? now let\'s look at the meaning of stupidity, it means extreme dullness of perception or understanding. now let\'s look at what we said so far. rei: boxer\'s strategy is refined and proved to work. and back up by boxer himself. you: boxer\'s fucking chees gay gay gay. i don\'t care what boxer said in his interview. i don\'t need to *understand anything cause i\'m *enjoying bashing boxer opps? is that you being extreme dullness of understanding and enjoying it? I DO THINK SO!!! see here is a well constructed insult that goes around with out ever directly insult the person, this would piss off some guy so much better than just typing constant f words etc. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
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Elvin_vn
Vietnam2038 Posts
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Geval
788 Posts
 nice post I'll perhaps use your scientific aproach toward the work "fuck" sometimes :D and are you a fan of Evangelion? if yes double | ||
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Elvin_vn
Vietnam2038 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
Are there ANY new reps of Boxer? Because if there aren't and we'll never see his new rush, I don't think we can ever fully appreciate, what's different and what makes this build special. I'm really interested in this... Anyway, at last something new in the SC world... | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
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rei
United States3594 Posts
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
yellow is really good at blocking bunker rushes. he kills marines before they get to the bunk because drones are a lot faster and he uses the worker slide bug. he also kills workers before they finish the bunker. boxer just played better. although it did not entertain me as much as the other boxer vs yellow games but it does give you a new perspective on the game and show you that the standard build is not always the best. early hatchery gives the zerg a huge advantage but if something unexpected comes out of the other player's ass, he may pay for it. nal ra did some early gateway rushes vs some zergs and they did pay for it with many drones. try it yourself many strategies have been formulated by exploting the unexpected weaknesses of "build orders" and things that are set up. let me name some. probe following the drone that goes to make the second hatchery. pylon blocking dragoons. proxy builds. 4 probe rush vs terran. bunker rush zergling rush zealot walls drops invisible units fast drops. running units past static defense ie running past cannons with lings. air units. sunken rush. gas stealing just to name a few so try it out. strange strats can really help. ive make scouts instead of sairs before. and it works great. even mutas get owned. not as fast as sairs but scouts can last a long time and their upgrade for speed can make them take down ovies a lot faster because they have HUGE explosive damage. when i contained a protoss with 2 lurkers, i knew he would break out eventually so i make a hatchery at bottom of his ramp and put a 5 sunkens and 1 spore there. so try something out and post if you get any good ideas. gl everyone. | ||
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Painbringer
Norway446 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On November 12 2004 13:50 Ack1027 wrote: No, I think it can be analyzed by the people who are in Korea. They will be able to see the matches in clear T.V. Quality. I'm sure some fanatic will figure it out by watching them over and over very carefully. Hm, I don't know, it might be, but it's still 3rd person point of view, so they won't be able to see, when exactly he cuts scv production, etc... | ||
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Geval
788 Posts
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Honk2000
Germany698 Posts
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8882
2736 Posts
On November 12 2004 12:31 Sadist wrote: some of you act like 8 rax is something new, alot of the koreans used it in wsl :o and alot of non koreans too ;d I thought it's the standard build on wgtour? -_- Like there was only Ogogo who managed to stop it (only once  ). | ||
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Geval
788 Posts
On November 12 2004 14:10 Honk2000 wrote: what if silent_control gamed like that vs yellow? would everybody also call him a strategic genius? If he can pull it 3 times on the row yeap I would. But I dont believe silent_control is ever able to do that against a guy like Yellow and I willing to bet $10 that you wounld not either. | ||
ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
Boxer played to win, and did so masterfully. Yellow got bitch slapped 3 times in a row by the same strategy, not because "Boxer is a Pansey" but because his play was so pathetically inept. End of story. Don't be mad at Boxer, be mad at Yellow for being stubborn and failing to addapt to his opponent. It isn't as if this bunker rush was a perfect and unbeatable strat, cuz if it was you'de see every Terran do it in every game. Yellow took it in the bum, blame him. This is simply another testament to Boxer's career long out-classing of Yellow in any significant games they play. | ||
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