We haven't had one of these for a while, have we? I'm happy to present to you this Q&A with Moopie for KT and Ideas for STX. Enjoy! 1) Coming into this Match, KT is undefeated in Winners League while STX was the first non-ACE allkilled team of 2011. On the other hand, KT has a lot to take revenge for, the previous matches of the season ended 4-1 in STX’s favor, and a STX player knocked out Flash from both Starleagues (Kal and Classic, respectively). How would you rate the teams mindsets coming into the arena?
moopie: I think KT is very strong right now, so past losses aren't going to affect them too much mentally. KT being undefeated is indeed very nice, but the fact that Flash isn't the sole cause of that is even better. Stats and Violet have been performing great so far in WL and I expect that to continue. With any luck Action will be joining them soon. KT definitely has the momentum at the moment to push through any obstacle.
ideas: KT’s gotta be feeling good being undefeated right now, and STX has been so unpredictable this season that I have no idea. Kal and Calm would lose PL games they shouldn’t and then immediately after destroy this individual leagues, and then there are days when they don’t play very well in individual leagues but then FrOzen and Bogus destroy whatever team they play.
2) The situations of Rounds 1&2 seem to be entirely reversed. „Deep“ teams like Hite Entus and STX SouL, previously 2&3, are collapsing in front of teams that were said to be lacking in depth beforehand. TaekBangLee (Note: not adding Ssang is intentional) is on fire. What are your thoughts? Will this Winners League have good or bad results (interpret this in any way you please) in the big picture?
moopie: It was expected coming into WL that depth would play a lesser part than individual S-class players as that is the nature of the beast. However I think that so far (with the exception of SKT's 1-hit-wonder) the winning teams have been largely group efforts instead of relying on the ace players, which is a welcome surprise. I expect KT to rise quite a few spots between now and the end of round 4.
ideas: This is exactly how I expected Winner’s League to go, although with Jaedong doing better. It’s actually been weird to see this Winner’s League favor Protoss a bit more than Terran result-wise, but that’s fine with me. I’m really excited about there being 2 rounds of WL, since there are a lot of teams that do poorly in the beginning of the round that bounce back at the end as they get conditioned to WL or something. I predict that next round will be a lot different.
3)Having recently seen the movie again, I’d like to force my dear fanboys to draw comparisons. Who are your teams „ the Good“, „ the Bad“, and „the Ugly“, and why?
moopie: Ouch, no polite way to answer that. Well, going by this season's performances so far, the good would undoubtedly be Flash and Stats.
The bad would be Tempest, who for some reason kept getting sent out even though he is 0-7 so far. I'm sure he is performing good in practice or he wouldn't be sent out, but until he gets his nerves under control, enough is enough.
As for ugly.. I'm sorry mafia zerg (in terms of play damnit). Action has hit a major slump since his transfer to KT. His play in live games has been sloppy, and far too often he makes noob mistakes that are painful to watch even though his fans know he is capable of so much more. His most recent game against HiyA is a perfect example of this. HiyA commited to a 4-rax timing, but tipped his hand by showing the marine count for a couple minutes before moving out as he micro'd them in and out of his base. Action sees hordes of marines and decides to make 1 sunken... 1. That game was the definition of ugly.
4)Both teams are doing badly in individual leagues in January, as Calm and Modesty, while getting far, were knocked out with some pretty badly played games, and both Calm and Kal are down 1-0 in a bo5 against their respective opponents. KT Rolster, on the other hand, dropped out early in both tournaments. Have KT’s players overcome their weaknesses that caused them to drop out? Can Calm and Kal pull themselves together for this Winners League match?
moopie: Judging by Stats' recent play, I would say he is on top of his game, so I definitely expect better of him next season. As for Flash, I don't think he has much of a weakness to overcome in dropping the leagues. Flash's losses seemed to be complete flukes as he hasn't dropped a single game since and his play has been in top form. The only loss that could be excused is to Kal on Aztec, which is a hard TvP map (on top of which Kal is a badass). Whether or not those losses were attributed to his wrist injury or another issue is unknown, but its in the past now.
ideas: Well when you talk about individual leagues with KT, you mean Flash. And I think getting knocked out early in both leagues has really re-motivated him. He’s probably the scariest player to play right now, and even scarier than before. I think Kal and Calm are definitely still in the MSL (and in fact Calm seems to make it a habit of losing the 1st game in a series), but it will be tough for both of them. Especially Kal, he is really weak in Bo5s, and great has got nothing to lose.
5) Will KT make another allkill this round? How about any of the STX players?
moopie: That all depends on how KT players perform as a whole. Currently, if there is an all-kill to be performed, it will be Stats' as he has been getting sent out early. Flash has been saved for last, so an all-kill would require everyone on KT to lose without a single kill, which while not impossible, seems unlikely currently. I am a huge fan of KT's SWL lineups so far, and while Flash can't boast about all-kills, its far more important for KT to show their depth and strength. In the meanwhile Flash gets time to rest his wrist, so everybody wins.
ideas: Most definitely KT will make more Allkills. Anytime Flash gets a chance pretty much lol. I think STX might make 1 Allkill, probably from Kal or someone random like Shuttle/Bogus/FrOzen.
6) Who will the First Zerg player to get an all-kill be? Protoss is far ahead and BaBy recently scored the first one for Terran.
moopie:Jaedong would be the obvious choice, if he can regain his composure. Failing that, my money is on ZerO.
7) Which 4 players will be sent out for the teams? Might this go to an Ace match because the 4 maps at the beginning are not favorable for any race in all matchups?
moopie:Stats should be sent out first, for Bloody Ridge. If he loses before Aztec, I expect Violet to follow up. Icarus would be the best time to send Action out, and Flash will clean up whatever is left. Its hard to predict how many matches this will go to since STX's performance can be a bit shaky. Should STX be in the zone I definitely expect this to go all the way to 7.
ideas: I’m guessing from KT, like EVERY match it seems, Violet, Flash, Stats, and Action. STX I’m going to say will send out Kal, Calm, Classic, and Bogus. I have no idea if it will go to an ace match, there are just way too many factors to predict at all. It’d be awesome if it did though :D.
8) Some of the wierder coaching choices have been to send out Action and by.hero, who haven’t performed too well as of now. How do you explain this?
moopie: I can't speak for by.hero, but as for Action I think the coaches are trying to get him over his slump. I'm certain he is performing well in practice, and as we know from his eStro days Action puts in a LOT of hours for practicing, the kid is a machine. The coaching staff clearly knows his potential or they wouldn't send him out over other players who perform better in practice. It should only be a matter of time until he recovers his game.
ideas: The only way to get a player to start performing well is to let them perform well eventually. I can’t speak for KT but by.hero was sent out when STX was in no real danger (never in any clutch matches), and you see a lot of teams do this when they’re ahead or not in any danger.
9) Will Bogus and Violet be able to continue their good momentum and destruction of antiteams?
moopie: I really hope so! Its great when that happens because it shows people nobody is to be underestimated.
ideas: I hope so. It’s always great to see players like them that have actually been around for a while finally start to get their feet wet.
10) Predict the outcome of this match, and to give something to fans of other teams, also predict which teams will make it into the WL playoffs!
moopie: Fanboyism aside, its hard to vote against KT with their recent performances. Its unclear whether or not they will have to use Flash for this set, but they are the favorites here. KT is of course also on track for the WL playoffs, but STX is definitely in the running as well. Either way, we still have a round and a half, so everything could change.
ideas: STX will win 4-3. WL playoffs are the top 4 teams, right? Then I suppose it will be KT, SKT1, Hite, and STX.
Finally, any last words?
moopie: As usual when KT and STX face off, I just want to see good games, regardless of who wins.
ideas:Calm vs Fantasy was one of the top 5 Bo5s in the last year.
mustaju: It's incredible to have a community that can (and DOES) literally whip these up in just a few hours within requests. I love you, guys.
source: www.fomos.kr article: Fomos Predictions (Fomos does this for every match apparently)
On the 23rd, we will witness the battle between KT and STX. KT is undefeated so far in SWL and they are moving up the overall rankings one step at a time. STX has not enjoyed the same success as KT in SWL, but they too have to acquire more wins in order to move up in the ranks. This time, I (the journalist) am going to make bold predictions.
▶ KT vs STX, opening set will be: Flash vs Kal! It seems likely that the ace players from each team will face off in the opening set. Flash is falling behind Bisu in the race for "most wins in SPL" title, so he will use this opportunity to go for an all-kill and catch up with Bisu. Looking at the map order (Bloody Ridge, Fortress, Aztec, Empire of the Sun), as long as Flash can overcome the difficulties on Aztec, an all-kill seems doable for a player of his caliber.
Meanwhile, STX will probably send out Kal. Bloody Ridge is a decent map for Protoss, and giving Kal the opportunity to win a couple matches will better prepare his mentality and confidence for the remaining MSL Ro8 matches. If my predictions are correct, the result of set 1 will likely lead to the same overall match result.
Poll: Who are you cheering for?
KT Rolster (27)
44%
STX SouL (22)
36%
I'm just hoping for good games. (11)
18%
Both! Decision making is for suckers! (1)
2%
61 total votes
Your vote: Who are you cheering for?
(Vote): KT Rolster (Vote): STX SouL (Vote): I'm just hoping for good games. (Vote): Both! Decision making is for suckers!
Poll: Who will win?
KT Rolster (38)
73%
I voted and didn't say anything at the same time. Take that, poll! (10)
19%
STX SouL (4)
8%
52 total votes
Your vote: Who will win?
(Vote): KT Rolster (Vote): STX SouL (Vote): I voted and didn't say anything at the same time. Take that, poll!
Back in STX masters the Clamster took out Flash with some good play. Will it happen again? Will Classic make a valkyrie and have chortles? Will we find out? Maybe.
Not sure if KT will be able to win without Flash this time around, but I'm sure at least one of the KT tosses will be able to grab a win or two before Flash cleans this one up.
It would be awesome to read some Hwaseung House again (I wonder if the author has forgotten about it); those comics are hilarious. Perhaps you could step up and do something like that, except based around STX instead of Oz? You can try making 1 comic as a test run and see everyone's reactions to it, then make more if most people like it. Of course you don't have to churn new comics out like a factory, but it'd be nice to see some light-hearted fun poked at teams again. ;P
Don't care who wins today... But someone better cook up some epic BM! (And I better not miss it again DX)
On January 23 2011 10:20 Spica wrote: It would be awesome to read some Hwaseung House again (I wonder if the author has forgotten about it); those comics are hilarious. Perhaps you could step up and do something like that, except based around STX instead of Oz? You can try making 1 comic as a test run and see everyone's reactions to it, then make more if most people like it. Of course you don't have to churn new comics out like a factory, but it'd be nice to see some light-hearted fun poked at teams again. ;P
Don't care who wins today... But someone better cook up some epic BM! (And I better not miss it again DX)
Atrioc hasn't really been active here for a long time. Also, fanatacist had a run making an SKT version of Hwaseung house, mostly Oz bashing though.
On January 23 2011 10:20 Spica wrote: It would be awesome to read some Hwaseung House again (I wonder if the author has forgotten about it); those comics are hilarious. Perhaps you could step up and do something like that, except based around STX instead of Oz? You can try making 1 comic as a test run and see everyone's reactions to it, then make more if most people like it. Of course you don't have to churn new comics out like a factory, but it'd be nice to see some light-hearted fun poked at teams again. ;P
Don't care who wins today... But someone better cook up some epic BM! (And I better not miss it again DX)
and Oz coach left. No more that funny face of him.
for some reason using this stream freezes my browser up for like 10 seconds when opened then DCs me from chat. Never happened before and its only this stream.
Both palyers taking their respective nats - Violet approaching Kal's nat with some goons, spotted by Kal's obs, who moves with his own forces in response Violet pulls away - a reaver emerges from his robo
violet adding his 5th and 6th gates as well both players' army staying at home 2 templar out for violet idling at his nat, a cannon added there kal loses an obs there as well
kal has a shuttle approaching violet's main from 12, violet's army finds it, lands a few hits, storms it, and a goon lands the final hit - templar dropped in the main but kal can't throw a storm off - no energy?
kal catches violet's reavers isolated on the SE ridge - storms a ton of zealots violet shakes his head at his mistake
violet returning the favor with storms on zealots, the fight has reached his nat, kal still has plenty of goons outside, while violet has like 5 archons
finally the templar in kal's nat destroyed by probes
small zealot raid on violet's 3rd - violet's responding army gets ttromed to hell
pure probes deal with the last zealot in violet's third but now kal moving his remaining goons there to fight - violet's zealot-heavy army moving to respond, probes pulled
kal's army actually gets sandwiched and destroyed not sure if ti was worth it
kal drops a pylon at 10.5, violet arrives with a dt and destroys the probe though is violet preparing to take 12 as his 5th? yes he is, with like 12 cannons to defend it
Kal miss the gg and types 'g' by mistake :p. The 4.5 expansion won violet the game. Kal won the last figth quite convingcingly but did not have the economy to fight off violet reinforcement .
On January 23 2011 13:32 BLinD-RawR wrote: its annoying that Flash isn't getting a chance to play let alone get an all kill....but the fact that KT can do well without him helps me a bit.
what the heck?
Flash fans should be happy he doesn't have to work as hard (twice) every week
On January 23 2011 13:32 BLinD-RawR wrote: its annoying that Flash isn't getting a chance to play let alone get an all kill....but the fact that KT can do well without him helps me a bit.
what the heck?
Flash fans should be happy he doesn't have to work as hard (twice) every week
On January 23 2011 13:32 BLinD-RawR wrote: its annoying that Flash isn't getting a chance to play let alone get an all kill....but the fact that KT can do well without him helps me a bit.
what the heck?
Flash fans should be happy he doesn't have to work as hard (twice) every week
Well, someone just posted this in the PR:
flash is pretty much idling this month, yes, he won the 3 games he had but is this enuf to like take him as the second best player atm? ... The fact of the matter is Flash is not in any starleague, and so is Bisu, but at least Bisu netted some 3 back to back all-kills to live up to his name.
On January 23 2011 13:39 mustaju wrote: Oh, Hero? 2-0 KT, I guess.
Are we ignoring the part where ZvP is the one thing mini-July is good at? Not that Violet couldn't win, but it's not really an automatic conclusion, especially given the map.
On January 23 2011 13:39 mustaju wrote: Oh, Hero? 2-0 KT, I guess.
Are we ignoring the part where ZvP is the one thing mini-July is good at? Not that Violet couldn't win, but it's not really an automatic conclusion, especially given the map.
Given his current form, mini-july won't even be capable to beat Best in a ZvP.
So Violet just won with pure zealots (basically) and 2 reavers (one at a time).
I'm not sure I see how this is possible, short of by.hero completely screwing up, but he didn't do anything really wrong... other than having no army at all and trying to take a 4th.
lol...I just tuned into Hero vs. Light to see a control group of Zealots + 1 reaver/shuttle + corsairs ravaging Hero's nat. How it got to that point is beyond me. I guess I'll watch the VOD to find out. ^^;
On January 23 2011 13:52 Musoeun wrote: So Violet just won with pure zealots (basically) and 2 reavers (one at a time).
I'm not sure I see how this is possible, short of by.hero completely screwing up, but he didn't do anything really wrong... other than having no army at all and trying to take a 4th.
I think it was cos violet kept killing his overlords (he had like 5-6) and hero couldnt make hydras in time to defend
On January 23 2011 13:52 Musoeun wrote: So Violet just won with pure zealots (basically) and 2 reavers (one at a time).
I'm not sure I see how this is possible, short of by.hero completely screwing up, but he didn't do anything really wrong... other than having no army at all and trying to take a 4th.
On January 23 2011 13:52 blahman3344 wrote: lol...I just tuned into Hero vs. Light to see a control group of Zealots + 1 reaver/shuttle + corsairs ravaging Hero's nat. How it got to that point is beyond me. I guess I'll watch the VOD to find out. ^^;
Short version: Violet's early aggression screwed up hero's gameplan, + hero then tried to take a 4th base with an army of about 6 lings and 6 hydra total. 12 zealots and a reaver later...
On January 23 2011 13:52 Musoeun wrote: So Violet just won with pure zealots (basically) and 2 reavers (one at a time).
I'm not sure I see how this is possible, short of by.hero completely screwing up, but he didn't do anything really wrong... other than having no army at all and trying to take a 4th.
On January 23 2011 13:52 Musoeun wrote: So Violet just won with pure zealots (basically) and 2 reavers (one at a time).
I'm not sure I see how this is possible, short of by.hero completely screwing up, but he didn't do anything really wrong... other than having no army at all and trying to take a 4th.
isn't having no army kind of a problem?
Yeah, that was kind of the point, though I didn't phrase it very well. I just kind of wonder - did the hydra bust stop working, or did Zergs just get bored and start doing stuff that *doesn't* work for no good reason?
On January 23 2011 13:55 okum wrote: It's funny how PvZ suddently looks as imbalanced as ZvP did 2009-2010.
I can't comment on this game specifically, since I was watching the other match, but if zergs want to drone drone drone they shouldn't be surprised when an army knocks on their door
toss scouts zerg really fast always right so they can nex or forge first, but why dont tosses gas steal the zerg? think abgout it, lair delay, zerglings have to be attacking the gas, no ling speed anytime soon right?
On January 23 2011 14:07 KTF_CloaK wrote: i just thought of something brilliant
toss scouts zerg really fast always right so they can nex or forge first, but why dont tosses gas steal the zerg? think abgout it, lair delay, zerglings have to be attacking the gas, no ling speed anytime soon right?
On January 23 2011 14:15 Musoeun wrote: "Hi, I'm Calm. I got my 3rd killed by sair-DT because I screwed up my spore timing, but at least I sim-citied my nat and so I'm still alive. Problem?"
However, I forgot to put a sunken/spore in my main, so now I'm pretty dead. >.>
Calm....=( Wow, PvZ is looking really imbalanced towards P now-a-days....It must be that zealot-timing push that's become so popular...man zealots never looked so scary =P
Zerg simcity + hydras would've gave Clam the time to drone up instead of relying on pure sunks to defend overlords Or a hydra bust after the ling runby would've been great too Instead he just let sair+DT roflstomp him >.<
On January 23 2011 14:26 The_Piper42 wrote: PvZ Air superiority is game-ending...
Yep, that's what I said back then, when Stork started adapting that style. Mass sair bs+whatever+decent control=win. Violet's control wasn't even decent but against mediocre vP players, it's enough.
whenever STX chokes this badly i'm always afraid the STX coach might commit suicide or something. he always has this distressed look on his face (not to mention bribing other teams with chicken and hiding the team from being seen)
I don't think that Bogus can get a reverse all-kill. maybe he could defeat Violet if he tried, but getting a reverse all-kill isn't the easiest thing in the world...especially if you need to go up against Flash o_O
That's cute, 3rd CC in his main, offa 2 facts, after having defended no harass... Hey, at least it's not as bad as taking another main with your initial drone-scout
Bogus pushing out to secure his third, in the direction of Violet
good job violet, now bogus will find your expo will he? no he backs off before even checking the corner he moves his army to hit 5 instead, which makes sense - more probes there
WOW, this has gotta be some of the WORST PvT decision-making I've seen in a while!
Violet musta been tired.. Bogus pushed to his nat, because somehow Bogus's army was so horribly missplaced that he wasn't even defending the cliff abocve the front of his fucking base.
So Violet can't quite come to defend his nat because hit army's too small and would get owned by sieged tanks in his nat. So he twiddles his thumbs in the middle of the map as his nat gets taken out. Then we realize that due to the great timing of Bogus' push, violet's ground army is quite small, so much so that Bogus goes and runs after it with his army unsieged.. Then he takes out5 o'clock natural, and the main there, halting carrier production...
Now it's down to Violet abusing cliffs to try and make up for the fact that Bogus' timing was PERFECT, and that Bogus has 3 mining bases to Violet's 1.
Make that 0, Violet just lost his nat. Looks like a recall is going to happen.. Cute, recall carriers all the way across the map, to loose half of them to goliaths that were already there. And there's GG
I've gotta say, good play by Bogus, he hit the window where Violet had stopped ground-production just right
lol Action... Just why not send Yellow? T_T Why they send Action though he is bad, and don't let us see Yellow, I'm kinda fan of him and I bet many people are too. And I swear he is not worse than FailCtion. X_x
On January 23 2011 15:05 bITt.mAN wrote: Bogus versus pinky-zerg
WHY am I NOT cheering for estro?
Because:
1) eSTRO doesn't exist. 2) Bogus is awesome. 3) More BW = better life and Action winning = less BW tonight. 4) Action is pretty bad. 5) eSTRO doesn't exist.
That was a fun game. Bogus was quite relentless with the drops, and he managed to do decent damage with his drops, for the most part. After some point, Action was just flailing around helplessly, and was too pre-occupied defending his bases instead of trying to attack Bogus.
Looks like Stats will be out next for KT, or so I think.
While we're ragging on Action, I do want to point out: Bogus played that game perfectly strategically, but his micro was pretty bad. So many random and unnecessary marine losses to lurkers.
On January 23 2011 15:27 Musoeun wrote: While we're ragging on Action, I do want to point out: Bogus played that game perfectly strategically, but his micro was pretty bad. So many random and unnecessary marine losses to lurkers.
hey, give the guy some credit he made sure to only attack lurkers under swarm when there was only one (and consistently did this)
On January 23 2011 15:27 Musoeun wrote: While we're ragging on Action, I do want to point out: Bogus played that game perfectly strategically, but his micro was pretty bad. So many random and unnecessary marine losses to lurkers.
Bogus could've gave the population of China away in marines considering his opponent literally rolled over on his belly for him.
By the end of the game he probably had enough to go 200/200 BCs.
On January 23 2011 15:24 hauton wrote: this is retarded gg timing from action
go away you're worse than slumping july and you're not even as fat as him
give the guy a break, maybe he has trouble adjusting and I hear he is really good in practice no need to be so harsh on him
Although Action was a little overrated at estro, it does seem like he has problems adjusting at KT.
Action's record last year was 28-25. Allowing for a little variance (and probably worse Z maps), his 7-10 PL record this year before WL was looking reasonably similar. It's the 0-4 WL record that's weird, although I think it's an opponent thing: Hydra, fantasy, HiyA, and Bogus is pretty stiff competition for an average player. I think most 50% players would "expect" a 1-3 record there, with probable losses to Hydra and fantasy and 1-1 against the other 2. So the 0-4 isn't the worst record ever. You get him up against more players like Horang2 and Saint and you get some wins out of him.
Alternatively, he needs a different coaching style (exhibit A: Jaehoon).
This is turning out just like that KT vs. Oz game. Violet starting with a 3 kill against 2 zergs and a protoss, then a Terran proceeds to beat Violet and Action before losing to Stats.
On January 23 2011 15:40 Gescom wrote: Why is KT so reluctant to play Flash?
Option A) Giving other players game time. Option B) Trying to help Flash since he's got some sort of RSI. Option C) Giving a big middle finger to the opponents they beat without Flash.
On January 23 2011 15:35 hauton wrote: The moment Action saw how much Bogus had devoted to turrets, he should've went straight hydralurk.
Scourges shouldn't be sitting on top of hatcheries, they should be patrolling base entrances, especially if you don't have OLs sitting around.
Going Hive tech early when he really didn't have the need to at that point (3base, barely a factory from T)
Not creating enough lings for defilers to consume, constantly consuming scourge/hydra/OLs.
Building 2390428917 canals when you don't even have an army to move yet.
Leave stop lurker for the pros
I could go on all day. Action sucks.
Oh dear god Going hydralurk because the terran has built alot of turrets? Going hive tech off three base is wrong? You're joking right?
When his third is barely up? Sure! Lets spend all those resources on tech and canals, instead of a real army!
Hydralurk would've been totally acceptable considering his swarms did literally dick shit.
he would've been rolled a lot harder without those swarms
Every one of those swarms were reactionary - much like the rest of the game. After running his mutas into an impregnable fortress of turrets and failing at a cutesy stop lurk, Action might as well have been a passive bot the rest of the game. Every scourge attack, every lurker attack, every swarm was in response to something Bogus did. That's pretty pathetic play for the great "Mafia Zerg".
Bogus is adding facs - he's going up to 7 or 8, didn't get a hard count. Moving across the middle when he sees all Stats' expos, but Stats has a decent army.
I feel bad for action:/ he probably went into the wrong team since at the time he went in his classic hive tech play style was probably countered by timing push terran forgg and of course flash
On January 23 2011 15:35 hauton wrote: The moment Action saw how much Bogus had devoted to turrets, he should've went straight hydralurk.
Scourges shouldn't be sitting on top of hatcheries, they should be patrolling base entrances, especially if you don't have OLs sitting around.
Going Hive tech early when he really didn't have the need to at that point (3base, barely a factory from T)
Not creating enough lings for defilers to consume, constantly consuming scourge/hydra/OLs.
Building 2390428917 canals when you don't even have an army to move yet.
Leave stop lurker for the pros
I could go on all day. Action sucks.
Oh dear god Going hydralurk because the terran has built alot of turrets? Going hive tech off three base is wrong? You're joking right?
When his third is barely up? Sure! Lets spend all those resources on tech and canals, instead of a real army!
Hydralurk would've been totally acceptable considering his swarms did literally dick shit.
he would've been rolled a lot harder without those swarms
Every one of those swarms were reactionary - much like the rest of the game. After running his mutas into an impregnable fortress of turrets and failing at a cutesy stop lurk, Action might as well have been a passive bot the rest of the game. Every scourge attack, every lurker attack, every swarm was in response to something Bogus did. That's pretty pathetic play for the great "Mafia Zerg".
Did you notice how quick action took his 4th? needed to catch up from the 2 hatch muta that didnt do anything. Do you realise to hold onto that 4th you need swarm and nydus'? If he went 3 base hydralurk he would have gotten fucked over regardless of the fact that bogas had no fac. Bogas had amazing multitask that game, saw a timing window and took it, so please for the love of god stop talking shit about how bad action played because he didnt do what you would have done along a few mismicros with defilers and scourge
One thing I don't understand is why no player leave a unit above their enemy's natural to just pick off those neutral buildings? Hey, if it means running into your enemy's main, it's good for me
On January 23 2011 14:32 bITt.mAN wrote: Could someone please give me hope? : "And STX send out, for their ace-amtch mind you, for their 'this guy looses and it's all over' game.... BOGUS!"
On January 23 2011 14:32 bITt.mAN wrote: Could someone please give me hope? : "And STX send out, for their ace-amtch mind you, for their 'this guy looses and it's all over' game.... BOGUS!"
You sound pretty stupid now, don't you?
<3 I was still asleep ok!
No, but I'm REALLY happy bogus is doing this well. I remember him from GomTv Avratech Intell Classic [seasons... what] (damm that was a while ago)
But I really want KT to loose, or at least not abuse God-Mode.
Goddamm that was some great staisis to equalize the base-numbers.
"O look, my probes are being harassed." "So I have a cannon at the base, and my army is coming. He has a sieged tank, so lets all run away." "O wait, I killed the tank a while ago, why are my probes still transfering?" "O wait, WHAT PROBES?"
stats not going to use his shuttle to stop things? 2 arbiters heading to bogus's army - recall into mines at bogus's 4th - but most of the army survives but big emp on the army!
bogus responds VERY quickly
nice storms on tanks but the recall is quickly dealt with
But Bogus is loosing so many SCV 's. But It doesn't even matter. If Stats looses 6 o'clock AS WELL it's all over, he'll nevre be able to make anything!
On January 23 2011 16:03 alypse wrote: Last attack was SO good but still, stats gg
All of Stats' attacks were good, lots of stasis, storms and effective mine clearing. Bogus simply outharrassed and outmacroed Stats. Very skillfully, I might add.
On January 23 2011 16:03 alypse wrote: Last attack was SO good but still, stats gg
All of Stats' attacks were good, lots of stasis, storms and effective mine clearing. Bogus simply outharrassed and outmacroed Stats. Very skillfully, I might add.
On January 23 2011 16:03 alypse wrote: Last attack was SO good but still, stats gg
All of Stats' attacks were good, lots of stasis, storms and effective mine clearing. Bogus simply outharrassed and outmacroed Stats. Very skillfully, I might add.
Hrmm, either Flash is going to crush Bogus's dreams, or one of Bogus's greatest dreams is going to come true... We shall see if David can beat Goliath though!
In the story, David beats Goliath. But in real life, will Goliath troll everybody and stomp David this time? :O
stats' spell use was great...but his attacks were not all great especially the first one in an effort to save his 4th that was the moment that put him behind for the rest of the game
Though I have a feeling that Bogus is well-prepared to snipe Flash...if Flash isn't careful (i.e. continues his trend of gaining a disadvantage early game) then he may actually lose this.. :O
On January 23 2011 16:09 timlin737 wrote: Flash vs Bogus incoming...
Though I have a feeling that Bogus is well-prepared to snipe Flash...if Flash isn't careful (i.e. continues his trend of gaining a disadvantage early game) then he may actually lose this.. :O
Bogus needs to play his very best to even have a chance of taking down Flash Flash just needs to play as well as he normally does.
Bogus has a chance, sure, but he's not the favorite by far.
On January 23 2011 16:09 timlin737 wrote: Flash vs Bogus incoming...
Though I have a feeling that Bogus is well-prepared to snipe Flash...if Flash isn't careful (i.e. continues his trend of gaining a disadvantage early game) then he may actually lose this.. :O
FWIW, TvT has been Bogus's best matchup this season.
FWIW, FvT is kind of ridiculous and tends to ignore other people's TvT skill.
Pick whichever of those two facts makes you feel happier, I guess.
On January 23 2011 16:16 mustaju wrote: I'm pleasantly surprised by all the positive reactions Bogus gets. He is on 186 people's anti-team, after all, and STX isn't a popular team.
that's because everyone is fed up with tosses this season and if someone confidently pwned them (as Bogus did today), he auto-gets the positive reception ^___^
On January 23 2011 16:26 Musoeun wrote: Ah... I think that was a premature gg, but trying to push in wasn't the smartest decision either. :/ Oh well, good show from Bogus. What a game.
On January 23 2011 16:26 Musoeun wrote: Ah... I think that was a premature gg, but trying to push in wasn't the smartest decision either. :/ Oh well, good show from Bogus. What a game.
Bogus knew exactly what he was doing. Flash had his nat up, he was way behind economically, he had to win the game there via his wraiths and mines or never.
On January 23 2011 16:32 Renkaoru wrote: I'm now officially excited for KHAN vs KT match so I can watch Stork wipe the floor with Flash's face along with his and his coaches arrogance.
Even though stork is the man of the moment, i think Flash will prevail.
Wowow, can't believe I was home just in time to watch Flash's game! That Flash landed his forward rax right next to Bogus's proxy Fact won the game, right there. No wonder they call him Maphacker Bogus sure took Canata's lesson the hard way: If your proxy fails at first, call in more proxies.
I left after Violet made the 3 kills, including walking over Kal and Calm, and then Bogus came out.
I was like rofl and went to watch the GSL.
And Bogus almost made a reverse all kill and KT had to fall back on Flash to win the set?
Somebody tell me, was Bogus just too good or was it just the rest of KT sucked?
Couple weeks back, there was a thread regarding who is the ace/sniper/rock of each team and Bogus was statistically STX's ace player. It's actually true?!
On January 23 2011 19:07 dukethegold wrote: You are fucking kidding me, right?
I left after Violet made the 3 kills, including walking over Kal and Calm, and then Bogus came out.
I was like rofl and went to watch the GSL.
And Bogus almost made a reverse all kill and KT had to fall back on Flash to win the set?
Somebody tell me, was Bogus just too good or was it just the rest of KT sucked?
Couple weeks back, there was a thread regarding who is the ace/sniper/rock of each team and Bogus was statistically STX's ace player. It's actually true?!
Bogus is amazing right now. Not amazing like Flash/Bisu/Stork are but amazing like Leta was back in the 08/09 season.
On January 23 2011 19:07 dukethegold wrote: You are fucking kidding me, right?
I left after Violet made the 3 kills, including walking over Kal and Calm, and then Bogus came out.
I was like rofl and went to watch the GSL.
And Bogus almost made a reverse all kill and KT had to fall back on Flash to win the set?
Somebody tell me, was Bogus just too good or was it just the rest of KT sucked?
Couple weeks back, there was a thread regarding who is the ace/sniper/rock of each team and Bogus was statistically STX's ace player. It's actually true?!
Yep, Bogus played incredibly well, especially in the game vs Stats.
On January 23 2011 20:10 kamikami wrote: Lol now we have another one-man team : STX Bogus !!!
STX is by no measure a one man team. That is such BS. It just seems all our players except for two are very weak against Protoss.
I was joking, besides KTFlash and JaedongOz we have seen many such jokes about SKTBisu, SamsungStork, MBCJaehoon lol, it's just time for your team to join the bandwagon lol.
3 marine poke gives away too much intention. After he saw 3 marines, Flash got into paranoid mode and found every single trick bogus tried. Really nice stuff from Flash.
On January 24 2011 03:15 StylishVODs wrote: wow that was some serious starsense. Did Flash even see the proxy?
Wasn't anything impressive from Flash, it was more Bogus's blunder. He was being WAYY too tech heavy. I mean what was his build? Tank with Wraith? Plus when Flash scouted it, he should've cancelled the Starport and just made straight vultures from the factory instead of going into tanks.
On January 24 2011 03:15 StylishVODs wrote: wow that was some serious starsense. Did Flash even see the proxy?
Wasn't anything impressive from Flash, it was more Bogus's blunder. He was being WAYY too tech heavy. I mean what was his build? Tank with Wraith? Plus when Flash scouted it, he should've cancelled the Starport and just made straight vultures from the factory instead of going into tanks.
It's really easy to say this but did you really think he can just pump vulture and get away with it? His factory was close to Flash base and he saw flash' 2 fact with the floating barracks, 1 fact vulture isn't going to beat 2 fact. He needed tanks to defend himself more than vultures just because you saw 1 vulture was going to harass his ass, that's just looking at that point of the game and not for the future.
Ssak and Classic both beat him straight up. To be honest, I don't really think you're increasing your chances to win that much when you cheese vs Flash. He's so good at sniffing it out and defending it.
On January 24 2011 03:15 StylishVODs wrote: wow that was some serious starsense. Did Flash even see the proxy?
Wasn't anything impressive from Flash, it was more Bogus's blunder. He was being WAYY too tech heavy. I mean what was his build? Tank with Wraith? Plus when Flash scouted it, he should've cancelled the Starport and just made straight vultures from the factory instead of going into tanks.
It's really easy to say this but did you really think he can just pump vulture and get away with it? His factory was close to Flash base and he saw flash' 2 fact with the floating barracks, 1 fact vulture isn't going to beat 2 fact. He needed tanks to defend himself more than vultures just because you saw 1 vulture was going to harass his ass, that's just looking at that point of the game and not for the future.
Well see if Bogus didn't bring out up his Marines out of the bunker and be very stubborn in executing the cheese, he could've hold that off. If he cancelled the Starport and then build another Factory instead of being stubborn in sending SCVs to continue building the Staport (he could still use those SCVs for mining). So it would have been VERY even. 2 Factory vulture vs 2 Factory vulture.
On January 24 2011 03:15 StylishVODs wrote: wow that was some serious starsense. Did Flash even see the proxy?
Wasn't anything impressive from Flash, it was more Bogus's blunder. He was being WAYY too tech heavy. I mean what was his build? Tank with Wraith? Plus when Flash scouted it, he should've cancelled the Starport and just made straight vultures from the factory instead of going into tanks.
It's really easy to say this but did you really think he can just pump vulture and get away with it? His factory was close to Flash base and he saw flash' 2 fact with the floating barracks, 1 fact vulture isn't going to beat 2 fact. He needed tanks to defend himself more than vultures just because you saw 1 vulture was going to harass his ass, that's just looking at that point of the game and not for the future.
Well see if Bogus didn't bring out up his Marines out of the bunker and be very stubborn in executing the cheese, he could've hold that off. If he cancelled the Starport and then build another Factory instead of being stubborn in sending SCVs to continue building the Staport (he could still use those SCVs for mining). So it would have been VERY even. 2 Factory vulture vs 2 Factory vulture.
Bogus was very behind at that point, his only chance of winning was some sort of all in. He tried wraiths and failed. IMO that was his best shot at winning, there was no way he was gonna catch up in econ.
I am so impressed with Bogus, and at the same time feel stupid for putting him on my anti-team. The guy has mad potential, his TvP is already S-Class-esque
On January 24 2011 03:15 StylishVODs wrote: wow that was some serious starsense. Did Flash even see the proxy?
Wasn't anything impressive from Flash, it was more Bogus's blunder. He was being WAYY too tech heavy. I mean what was his build? Tank with Wraith? Plus when Flash scouted it, he should've cancelled the Starport and just made straight vultures from the factory instead of going into tanks.
It's really easy to say this but did you really think he can just pump vulture and get away with it? His factory was close to Flash base and he saw flash' 2 fact with the floating barracks, 1 fact vulture isn't going to beat 2 fact. He needed tanks to defend himself more than vultures just because you saw 1 vulture was going to harass his ass, that's just looking at that point of the game and not for the future.
Well see if Bogus didn't bring out up his Marines out of the bunker and be very stubborn in executing the cheese, he could've hold that off. If he cancelled the Starport and then build another Factory instead of being stubborn in sending SCVs to continue building the Staport (he could still use those SCVs for mining). So it would have been VERY even. 2 Factory vulture vs 2 Factory vulture.
Even? Flash didn't go for just vultures, he had one add on to make tanks and one fact to make vultures.. If Bogus only went for vultures, Flash would have just run into his main instead of waiting and seiging below the ramp. How can it even be slightly even when Bogus used more scv in his cheese with the barracks and all flash had to do was make a bunker, at that stage of the game he was already economically behind. Remember, bogus used 3 scv(one to make barracks and the other 2 to scout) while flash only used 1 to scout.
Plus you have to add to the fact that the factory at the proxy location would have to LIFT UP because he wouldn't have any tank support to defend it. The only thing Bogus fuck up was the decision to proxy the factory, he did nothing wrong after that because he was so behind that without an all in then he would have been raped. Had he made the factory inside his base then he would be only slightly behind in economy and can probably make it even since he can expand before flash with that bunker at Flash's natural.
Violet, Stats and especially Bogus made this match imo: proof there are still very good up-and-coming players to relief the old guard. It's good to see them do well, coupled with Stork's and Bisu's revivals it convinced me there is SCBW after LJD/LYH.
Got to praise Bogus some more tbh, three good games and a mediocre cheese vs LYH, worth a gamble not to take him on straight. Next time prepare a better cheese build Bogus! GG
Wow this was unexpectedly close for KT. I stopped watching after Violet won the first 3 games to watch GSL, only to see an hour later that Bogus was playing Flash all of a sudden in the ace match. Good thing the game was so cheesy, the game ended right in time for the end of the GSL commercial break.
Bogus made the correct decision to cheese, he would not be able to match Flash in a long-ass TvT game when he's worn out like that. If it wasn't cross positions, the outcome might have been different. I guess luck and starsense were both on Flash's side. Nice job to Bogus though. He shouldn't feel ashamed of losing to Flash after almost doing a reverse AK.
On January 24 2011 09:03 crazeh wrote: Bogus' strategy was pathetic. He GIFTED the game to flash.
flash started the game with a huge BO advantage (rax after supply instead of bogus' 8rax 10supply) but otherwise their intentions (proxy-ish rax for early pressure) were similar. After bogus saw that flash had said lead (which is worth several scvs and a couple hundred of minerals in early mining time), he didn't have very many options, the only ones really available being what he did (cheese like fuck), go 2fac mines (with the facs probably being proxy anyway) and contain and eventually hope for a good daebak when flash inevitably pushed out (unlikely vs flash), or go for a contain with a bunker and take his nat asap foregoing production (or possibly even his first factory) in order to get it up to offset the economic advantage.
against these three options, flash did what he did against the first, the second would probably had led to a more boring faceroll by flash, and the third may have worked because they were cross position but i don't know exactly how many minerals/gas bogus had at the time. in the end, it was a fun game and well played by both players imo.
i think this really was a BO loss (with the 2 marines made by flash that picked off the scv sealing the game completely).
lol.. LYH... I still read that as Lim Yo Hwan in my head... ahhh.
And no, clueless guy, Bogus was nowhere near even if he just went 2 fact. He double scv scouted, earlier raxed, and popped an extra marne... it's...a huge setback to play straight up from there to matching builds.
On January 24 2011 09:03 crazeh wrote: Bogus' strategy was pathetic. He GIFTED the game to flash.
flash started the game with a huge BO advantage (rax after supply instead of bogus' 8rax 10supply) but otherwise their intentions (proxy-ish rax for early pressure) were similar. After bogus saw that flash had said lead (which is worth several scvs and a couple hundred of minerals in early mining time), he didn't have very many options, the only ones really available being what he did (cheese like fuck), go 2fac mines (with the facs probably being proxy anyway) and contain and eventually hope for a good daebak when flash inevitably pushed out (unlikely vs flash), or go for a contain with a bunker and take his nat asap foregoing production (or possibly even his first factory) in order to get it up to offset the economic advantage.
against these three options, flash did what he did against the first, the second would probably had led to a more boring faceroll by flash, and the third may have worked because they were cross position but i don't know exactly how many minerals/gas bogus had at the time. in the end, it was a fun game and well played by both players imo.
i think this really was a BO loss (with the 2 marines made by flash that picked off the scv sealing the game completely).
Just to say that if they weren't cross positions there was a high chance Bogus kills the scv building Flash's barracks and from there it's pretty much GG. So if luck wasn't on Flash side it was BO win for Bogus
On January 24 2011 03:15 StylishVODs wrote: wow that was some serious starsense. Did Flash even see the proxy?
Wasn't anything impressive from Flash, it was more Bogus's blunder. He was being WAYY too tech heavy. I mean what was his build? Tank with Wraith? Plus when Flash scouted it, he should've cancelled the Starport and just made straight vultures from the factory instead of going into tanks.
Flash produced 2 marines just in time and moved them to the proxy starport just in time to kill the SCV. If he didn't have this starsense bogus would have been able to complete the structure. It was much more impressive starsense than it was a blunder. Making a proxy isn't a blunder if someone scouts it due to starsense.
Bogus decision after his starport was not perfect though I admit, he should probably have cancelled it right away. However Flash's awesome move put Bogus in serious trouble, it wasn't that he proxied that put in him that trouble.
On January 24 2011 09:03 crazeh wrote: Bogus' strategy was pathetic. He GIFTED the game to flash.
I'm pretty sure it worked in practice. Why can't you give Flash some credit for his sniping of the SCV, that was obviously a good move. Otherwise you can say that proxy is always bad, pathetic and results in handing a win to your opponent which simply isn't true.
On January 24 2011 03:15 StylishVODs wrote: wow that was some serious starsense. Did Flash even see the proxy?
Wasn't anything impressive from Flash, it was more Bogus's blunder. He was being WAYY too tech heavy. I mean what was his build? Tank with Wraith? Plus when Flash scouted it, he should've cancelled the Starport and just made straight vultures from the factory instead of going into tanks.
Flash produced 2 marines just in time and moved them to the proxy starport just in time to kill the SCV. If he didn't have this starsense bogus would have been able to complete the structure. It was much more impressive starsense than it was a blunder. Making a proxy isn't a blunder if someone scouts it due to starsense.
Bogus decision after his starport was not perfect though I admit, he should probably have cancelled it right away. However Flash's awesome move put Bogus in serious trouble, it wasn't that he proxied that put in him that trouble.
On January 24 2011 09:03 crazeh wrote: Bogus' strategy was pathetic. He GIFTED the game to flash.
I'm pretty sure it worked in practice. Why can't you give Flash some credit for his sniping of the SCV, that was obviously a good move. Otherwise you can say that proxy is always bad, pathetic and results in handing a win to your opponent which simply isn't true.
Yep, it's easy to dismiss all the amazing moves pulled by Flash. It reminds me of this gem a little:
TheMarine, after being so amazed by Mind's brilliant strategy, asked Mind's Coach. "What was the winning pertage with this FE counter build?" Mind's coach said gravely looking into TheMarine. "100% winning percentage. During the practice, Mind never lost. At least if the opponent was playing against this Build order for the first time...10 out of 10, they all lost to it."
On October 16 2008 03:22 meathook wrote: I remember that game.
One of the best recent TvTs, even though that move can be considered "brilliant" the true brilliance was Mind's build that game.
His strat centred around vults with mines and cloaked wraiths, using the vults to harrass and plant mines. Which forced Flash to use up his scans to clean out the mines everywhere, he then attacked with cloaked wraiths and Flash could do nothing.
If you have not seen this TvT, do it now.
You're right. Also let's not forget Mind's strategy did not stop there. There was one more part to the whole grandios which was the tank drop right after the cloaked wraiths + the bunker.
But let's go over Mind's insane strategy from the start:
The whole plan starts as soon as Flash scouts Mind's base. Mind's ramp has one vulture. The first mind game starts right here. By showing only one vulture as Flash's late scout goes up the ramp, this implies this: Mind has add-on attached to his first factory. Thus, Flash can safely assume no vulture raid in the beginning.
Edit: (If he showed a second vulture. Flash would've built a bunker in the front which would give away everything. Mind's really saying here "Don't build a bunker" and worked)
The next part is the subtitled part. The unexpected vulture raid happens from the very start. The vultures plant the mines and take the damage. At this time, Flash can only assume that Mind is going for the natural exp. Which then again is only part of Mind's plan. Mind wants all Flash's defense at the exp. And this is the part where we can SAFELY assume this whole picture was in Mind's plan. This build has been carefully planned to the very second. VOD does not show it, however in the replay, by stop producing the SCV's, Mind PERFECTED the timing of mine research upgrade. Upgrade was finished by the time the dropship was loading up the vultures.
Then what next? Exactly what meathook said. He plans mines everywhere so Flash is forced to use scans. And here comes the cloaked wraiths. Genius. But it does not end here.
Using the map where having the upper ledge means everything Mind tries to get tanks on the ledge. Only if he built a bunker fast enough...
now THIS strategy like I mentioned before. If facing it for the very first time, 10 out of 10 times, you'd lose. Flash is just an exception.
p.s Like i said, I was too lazy to translate the whole analysis
I bet half the people here would say "Stupid strategy by Mind, Flash got handled the win" lol.
On January 24 2011 21:22 Holgerius wrote: That clip makes you wonder how many moves of similar nature Flash pulls off that we don't really notice or think of.
Not only Flash, I'm pretty sure I miss a lot of what even "average" player are thinking. Just watched the whole game by the way, very nice TvT. Mind's harass is insane, and Flash defense is very good.
EPT
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KT Rolster vs STX SouL![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/uniforms/5.png){kind=icon}
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Flash from both Starleagues (
Kal and 
Action will be joining them soon. KT definitely has the momentum at the moment to push through any obstacle. 
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