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On December 19 2010 01:56 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 00:38 Xiphos wrote:On December 19 2010 00:32 SubtleArt wrote:On December 18 2010 13:57 okum wrote:On December 18 2010 13:49 SubtleArt wrote:
Jaedong responded to Jangbi's strat so beautifully, GG More like... JangBi had one 5-second timing window in the early game and then it was just a formality. More like...Jaedong built just the right amount of stuff to survive while droning, Jangbi's +1 corsairs were wasted money, and a Protoss who tries to fight a 4 gas Zerg with 2 gas and 1 mineral only is completely hopeless. Pretty sure that JangBi was on 3 Gas vs 4 gas at one point, JangBi should've early expanded himself with that group of Zealot (headed to the 6 o clock of JD's, which didn't do that much dmg to it except for killing ONE Sunkens) to a third gas expansion so he could get Reavers in time when Jaedong goes Dark Swarm mode but NOOO, he got to use those Zealots uselessly. No jangbi was always on 2 gas for most of the game and the 3rd he got was a mineral only. He had a fourth base running but it was only for like 30 seconds because lings killed it so doesnt count
He took the inner ring third, which has a gas.
The one that lings killed was the min-only.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
On December 19 2010 06:35 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 05:55 _Quasar_ wrote:On December 19 2010 05:50 lastmotion wrote:
Jaedong will never get up there to Flash because, not the skill level involved, but the pure nature of ZvZ and ZvT. =)
roflmao Anyone was talking about such shit in PvZ, and then there came Bisu and just out-buildordered Savior.)))))) Same thing may happen in ZvT too, there's so much space for development still in this 12-year-old game, you know...  About ZvZ i dunno, Jaedong already proved that it's all about skill level, not only a coinflip, I think. Although some luck factor is involved. You are seriously one of the most uninformed posters on teamliquid...please learn the game before commenting
Wouldn't you bother with telling the actual points where I'm mistaken, instead of this unargumented trashtalk -___-
Really, good ol' teamliquid trend of insulting newcomer members. -___- Thank you very much, you really create a positive image for this site. Hope that 99% other people here aren't the same.
I was just simply trying to tell that the "nature of a matchup" is an always evolving thing, because each race's gameplay changes from time to time. And as for Zerg race, some people following this game since the beginning, believe that Zerg might be the race that benefits the most from good management (or simply the "theoretically best race"). And I have some reasons to believe them because they've made some good predictions on the match-up evolution that proved to be correct. So that's why I believe that some time after some Zerg players find the way to prove this. Although now you're free to cast a shitstorm on me or anyone who claims anything similar because we have no "proofs"
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
On December 19 2010 06:53 lastmotion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 05:55 _Quasar_ wrote:On December 19 2010 05:50 lastmotion wrote:
Jaedong will never get up there to Flash because, not the skill level involved, but the pure nature of ZvZ and ZvT. =)
roflmao Anyone was talking about such shit in PvZ, and then there came Bisu and just out-buildordered Savior.)))))) Same thing may happen in ZvT too, there's so much space for development still in this 12-year-old game, you know... About ZvZ i dunno, Jaedong already proved that it's all about skill level, not only a coinflip, I think. Although some luck factor is involved. Bisu might have revolutionized PvZ but PvZ tilted back to Zerg's favor after Zerg players learned how to play against Protoss's FE Corsair Opening. In my opinion, ZvT is in a worse state than PvZ but feel free to prove me wrong. I don't even think it's right comparing PvZ to ZvT...at least PvZ has times during the game when Protoss is in strong favor (late late game with Archons + Reavers, and Mid-Game Goon + Zeal + Temp when Zergs need lurkers to hold it off) whereas for Zerg in ZvT, I think it's only the timing window of muta harrass and that's like a few minutes at best.
I can't actually prove you wrong as I've said before, but there's just a sense that Zerg has a resource for evolution. If Zerg can find a way to minimize the damage from vessels and kill them more efficiently, get safe gas expansions beyond the initial 2 gas bases, react to drops properly and keep up with the Terran upgrades, then they will get big advantage, because their tech has more potential. But all must be carefully adapted to the maps and players. =)
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On December 19 2010 05:50 lastmotion wrote:
Jaedong will never get up there to Flash because, not the skill level involved, but the pure nature of ZvZ and ZvT. =)
During 'Swarm Season' in 2009, ZvT favoured Zerg, with Jaedong leading the pack. If there are Zerg favoured maps and/or innovations in ZvT strategy, it could potentially happen again. JvZ is not like it used to be when JD simply had way better muta micro than everyone else, but his ZvZ record (both recent and overall) still rivals Flash's TvT (it's actually better overall).
Since ZvZ is more build order based than TvT, Jaedong's probably more likely to lose individual games to random zergs than Flash is to random Terrans (although Flash's MSL games seem to indicate otherwise), but in a BoX, there's nothing to indicate that JD is more likely to lose to a Zerg than Flash is to T in a BoX. I don't know if Jaedong will ever reach the God mode level of Flash, but it doesn't seem like the nature of ZvZ and ZvT is what will prevent him from doing so.
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On December 19 2010 07:19 reincremate wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 05:50 lastmotion wrote:
Jaedong will never get up there to Flash because, not the skill level involved, but the pure nature of ZvZ and ZvT. =)
During 'Swarm Season' in 2009, ZvT favoured Zerg, with Jaedong leading the pack. .
From what I remember, "Swarm Season" Z and T was 50/50
Not to mention Swarm Season was seriously one season long versus TvZ years of dominance
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On December 18 2010 15:38 hacklebeast wrote:Poll: Do you recomend Set 5?yes (50) 94% meh (2) 4% no (1) 2% 53 total votes Your vote: Do you recomend Set 5? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
(Vote): meh
Most one-sided poll ever?
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@ SplashbackFerret: given who actually won the game, were you expecting anything else? ^_^.
I am really getting sad and exasperated watching Oz like this. Can someone explain why HiyA is slumping this badly? He's doing almost as bad as the Oz protosses last year. >_<. Poor Killer had to be matched up against Stork of all people.
Is it just me, or are Oz Protoss > Oz Terran this season?
I can't imagine how pissed Jaedong must be at his teammates right now. He's devoting so much time to practicing for PL, and his teammates keep failing him.
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On December 19 2010 01:44 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 01:31 DarkMatter_ wrote:
BTW, Jaedong's vP winrate just hit 70%. Now he only needs to get his horrible ZvT up there and he's just as cool as Flash. ^__^
It's not Jaedong, it's the horrible match up. Btw, Flash only needs to qualify for the msl to be as awesome as Jaedong.
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oh my poor dong..
last place oz again!
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EPT
