High level game, medum-long length. I liked it a lot. Recomended, but not highly recomended because it was lacking in the spectacular moment department. Still good.
Long, typical game considering the matchup, but on the worse end. Gets a strong No. Worth saying that there was a ceremony. Not a good one, but it happened.
hydraling trying to bust the nat, 2 active cannons destroyed probes pulled but are mere popcorn to the hydra... another cannon finishes while probe/zealot holds the gap...
zealot speed is done though, sair has a kill brave holds for now, adding another cannon still has a decent number of probes - but his main is sparsely saturated
Princess is still all-in mode, ling hydra sitting outside Brave's nat. Templar archive is almost ready WTF WHY ARE YOU COMING OUT BRAVE WTF BRAVE BACK UP DEFEND AND U WIN
That was terrible from Princess. For starters, I don't understand why he made so many lings in his initial attack, spending that larva on hydras probably would've been far more effective.
On December 18 2010 13:17 Xiphos wrote: GG, omg, I haven't seen a Protoss defend against Hydraling burst in a LONG time!
If Princess had left like 3 hydras at home to defend his OLs, he would have had like 20 more hydras in the long run because he could have actually built units. 6 OLs = 48 supply he didn't have. His economy was bad, but it wasn't bad enough to justify the almost no units he had.
On December 18 2010 13:19 QuakerOats wrote: Wtf, Brave didn't scout that at all, and yet the bust still failed pretty badly. What was with all the lings, should have stuck to pure hydra.
he scouted with corsair he saw no lair so he just defended
On December 18 2010 13:17 Xiphos wrote: GG, omg, I haven't seen a Protoss defend against Hydraling burst in a LONG time!
If Princess had left like 3 hydras at home to defend his OLs, he would have had like 20 more hydras in the long run because he could have actually built units. 6 OLs = 48 supply he didn't have. His economy was bad, but it wasn't bad enough to justify the almost no units he had.
On December 18 2010 13:19 QuakerOats wrote: Wtf, Brave didn't scout that at all, and yet the bust still failed pretty badly. What was with all the lings, should have stuck to pure hydra.
he scouted with corsair he saw no lair so he just defended
But at that point it's too late to really do anything about it, the attack comes too early for cannons to finish even if you start them as soon as your corsair reaches their base. That was the ideal situation for Princess and he still messed it up.
Let's go Jangbi, show the Tyrant what it's like to face the Almighty! ...okay, in all seriousness you lost that title when you lost to Lux that one MSL. But a man can dream.
NOOOOOOOO JANGBI!!!!! Its like seeing a kitten in the middle of the freeway with a semi berring down on it. You want to save the kitty, but there is nothing you can do
On December 18 2010 13:31 hacklebeast wrote: NOOOOOOOO JANGBI!!!!! Its like seeing a kitten in the middle of the freeway with a semi berring down on it. You want to save the kitty, but there is nothing you can do
wtf - the 4 zealots reach JD's 3rd which doesn't even have a finished sunken and heads backwards when it sees like one ling? now the sunken finishes and a lot of speedlings are out...
JD with just a few mutas but lots of scourge now chasing the retreating sairs - zealots trying to move into JD's nat but there's 4 sunkens and drones blocking the way lots of speedlings heading from the northern bases
Jangbi's attack defeated no problem Jangbi in really bad shape now
but the scourge only net like one sair kill at Jangbi's main?
a few lurkers appear/moving to the 4th for the save - lots of sairs killing OL's near JD's 3rd, finally ol speed done but lots of ol's dying all the same...
lurker/hydra/ling massing up near Jnagbi's 3rd - rush in - Jangbi has a lot of stormers though and cleans up most of the incoming forces swarms over the remaining lurkers though
scourge auto-ai so stupid - a bunch of them die, netting only one sair kill
jangbi adds some goons only to have them be totally ineffective against the 5 swarms by his 3rd
On December 18 2010 13:48 alffla wrote: lol that was too good from jd! even thoguh jangbis sairs did quite a bit of damage early on..fast hive too good O_O
On December 18 2010 13:50 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Jangbi played like crap. Game reflects his never-ending slump; not so much Jaedong's skillls
Let's be fair here: this map sucks for standard sair-HT PvZ. I'm not sure if the early 3rd-break with those zeals would have accomplished anything; I'm sure throwing the zeals away against the nat didn't help. But I really don't see how you can punish a greedy Zerg with a good sim-city on this map with standard play.
Hiya's sleeping new scvs at 7.5 finally wake up and start to mine
sharp and hiya maneuvering their armies at the SW of the center of the map... sharp could have had a contain but now it's come to this - hiya dropship/ground forces gain a bit of ground towards the south but sharp's goliaths come into play and stop things
Sharp has 2 mining bases + about to take another, Hiya has one but no SCV's there. Sharp is sweating like Jaehoon, k may not as hard as Jaehoon but Sharp really giving it his best.
Considering how easy it is to come back from a BO disadvantage, I'm surprised at how weak players keep beating good players at TvT. Not that Hiya is that great, but in general.
hiya drops 2 vultures behind inner 5.5, loses his dropship and the vultures - hia moving a mere few tanks towards 5.5 his army's too small otherwise sharp would have been in trouble
Man, JD even said in his last interview that he was focusing more on PL because that is so important to him, and still his teammates let him down like this. Feel so bad for him.
On December 18 2010 14:40 Holgerius wrote: Man, JD even said in his last interview that he was focusing more on PL because that is so important to him, and still his teammates let him down like this. Feel so bad for him.
now u know how oz fans feel. at least KT can still win sometimes. oz going down 1-4 is just plain business.
On December 18 2010 14:40 Holgerius wrote: Man, JD even said in his last interview that he was focusing more on PL because that is so important to him, and still his teammates let him down like this. Feel so bad for him.
;___;
No mercy today though because I'm a khan fan and I also voted khan in liquibet.
On December 18 2010 14:42 Confuse wrote: Don't worry guys... PerfectMan and Killer are gonna... oh who am i kidding...
The best they can send right now is Anytime. The threat list for Khan atm is Anytime, Lomo and the other perfectman and killer. Stork can beat any of them, at anytime (lol pun intended)
Killer and Backho are Oz's best bets. Why do people keep bringing up that noob Perfectman instead of Backho? Backho hasn't been great this season but he's still much better than Perfectman (he beat Stork in R1).
On December 18 2010 14:45 DarkMatter_ wrote: Killer and Backho are Oz's best bets. Why do people keep bringing up that noob Perfectman instead of Backho? Backho hasn't been great this season but he's still much better than Perfectman (he beat Stork in R1).
On December 18 2010 14:45 DarkMatter_ wrote: Killer and Backho are Oz's best bets. Why do people keep bringing up that noob Perfectman instead of Backho? Backho hasn't been great this season but he's still much better than Perfectman (he beat Stork in R1).
Perfectman: 4-7 BackHo: 1-5
You were saying?
OZ's top 5: Jaedong (duh, 16-4), Princess (5-4), Anytime (1-2)/Killer (6-8), Perfectman (4-7). This is why OZ sucks right now.
On December 18 2010 14:45 DarkMatter_ wrote: Killer and Backho are Oz's best bets. Why do people keep bringing up that noob Perfectman instead of Backho? Backho hasn't been great this season but he's still much better than Perfectman (he beat Stork in R1).
Perfectman: 4-7 BackHo: 1-5
You were saying?
OZ's top 5: Jaedong (duh, 16-4), Princess (5-4), Anytime (1-2)/Killer (6-8), Perfectman (4-7). This is why OZ sucks right now.
(It's probably Jaedong's second account. OzSucksBallsWithoutMe was too obvious, Win is more subtle.)
Win should have started over Killer. What is Oz thinking? Jaedong clearly had enough time to wear his disguise before getting on stage again. Maybe it's a clothing malfunction.
On December 18 2010 14:45 DarkMatter_ wrote: Killer and Backho are Oz's best bets. Why do people keep bringing up that noob Perfectman instead of Backho? Backho hasn't been great this season but he's still much better than Perfectman (he beat Stork in R1).
Perfectman: 4-7 BackHo: 1-5
You were saying?
OZ's top 5: Jaedong (duh, 16-4), Princess (5-4), Anytime (1-2)/Killer (6-8), Perfectman (4-7). This is why OZ sucks right now.
what about piratezerg, mustachezerg, and ozsucksballswithoutme?
On December 18 2010 14:45 DarkMatter_ wrote: Killer and Backho are Oz's best bets. Why do people keep bringing up that noob Perfectman instead of Backho? Backho hasn't been great this season but he's still much better than Perfectman (he beat Stork in R1).
Perfectman: 4-7 BackHo: 1-5
You were saying?
OZ's top 5: Jaedong (duh, 16-4), Princess (5-4), Anytime (1-2)/Killer (6-8), Perfectman (4-7). This is why OZ sucks right now.
what about piratezerg, mustachezerg, and ozsucksballswithoutme?
On December 18 2010 14:45 DarkMatter_ wrote: Killer and Backho are Oz's best bets. Why do people keep bringing up that noob Perfectman instead of Backho? Backho hasn't been great this season but he's still much better than Perfectman (he beat Stork in R1).
Perfectman: 4-7 BackHo: 1-5
You were saying?
OZ's top 5: Jaedong (duh, 16-4), Princess (5-4), Anytime (1-2)/Killer (6-8), Perfectman (4-7). This is why OZ sucks right now.
Have you watched BW before this season?
Look, I'm just trying to say that *this season* BackHo's been terrible, while Perfectman has been merely bad, and occasionally even played well. Yah perfectman is fairly new, but BackHo hasn't even been passably good since he hurt his back @2 years ago. So I'm not sure what your argument was. I just brought up this season's records since I assumed you hadn't seen them; I get that BackHo used to be OZ's best P right after Anytime went to ACE, but with Anytime back and perfectman doing okay-ish, BackHo is (imo, and by record) probably Oz's 3rd best.
And to answer your question: yes, I have been watching BW for quite a few years now.
wow killer's fucked he's losing his 4th and his main a slot ol finds the 2 dts in the main but despite the ling surround the main hatch is destroyed and the dts run into the corner
what - kill going to net a bunch of probe kills with his 6 remaining hydra at stork's nat - kills the observer too
stork moving out with 5 sairs to kill ol's - activates his 2 zealot/2 dt hiding at 2.5 to move towards 3.5 once all ol's there killed - he works on hydra there
stork adds gates, killer preparing for bust with many hydra/ling
he runs by the storms! terrible terrible damage! gate+forge down, probes lost! obs down! sairs frantically sniping ovies! AHHHH DARK TEMPLAR IN KILLER'S 3RD ovie in to save the day! killer finally pulls back, but most of the probes in stork's nat are gone
stork's 5 sairs still killing ol's shuttle sniped by hydra as they back away from a lot of speedlots corsairs flying over the hydra netting TONS of ol kills
remaining zealots surrounded by hydra and finished off
killer sending a drone to "expand" back to his former main
On December 18 2010 15:00 Musoeun wrote: In from that hydra bust we can conclude that Princess is terrible.
Don't you mean Killer? :p
No, I don't, I meant Princess. Killer got two bases DT'ed and still kept his macro up well enough to come within about 10 sec/3-4 hydras of breaking Stork's nat. I know he didn't do it, but he was way closer to succeeding than Princess was.
On December 18 2010 15:00 Musoeun wrote: In from that hydra bust we can conclude that Princess is terrible.
Don't you mean Killer? :p
No, I don't, I meant Princess. Killer got two bases DT'ed and still kept his macro up well enough to come within about 10 sec/3-4 hydras of breaking Stork's nat. I know he didn't do it, but he was way closer to succeeding than Princess was.
umm this "be the legend" thing is so old (has savior lol) (oh it's from incruit osl ... not part of the actual proleague stream right? yeah ok i was confused)
On December 18 2010 15:00 Musoeun wrote: In from that hydra bust we can conclude that Princess is terrible.
Don't you mean Killer? :p
No, I don't, I meant Princess. Killer got two bases DT'ed and still kept his macro up well enough to come within about 10 sec/3-4 hydras of breaking Stork's nat. I know he didn't do it, but he was way closer to succeeding than Princess was.
Yes... falling just short of brilliance, thats Oz Oh well I'm a stork fan so im not complaining
On December 18 2010 15:06 MountainDewJunkie wrote: It was a nice build by Stork, I must say. When Stork plays well, it even makes me more frustrated about his KA S2 semifinal vs Jaedong.
On December 18 2010 15:07 dukethegold wrote: Oz was once a legit powerhouse, fielded with an all star roster, and a leading contender for the PL championship.
On December 18 2010 15:07 dukethegold wrote: Oz was once a legit powerhouse, fielded with an all star roster, and a leading contender for the PL championship.
True story.
Not only that, they even won one. And came second at least once.
On December 18 2010 15:07 dukethegold wrote: Oz was once a legit powerhouse, fielded with an all star roster, and a leading contender for the PL championship.
On December 18 2010 14:45 DarkMatter_ wrote: Killer and Backho are Oz's best bets. Why do people keep bringing up that noob Perfectman instead of Backho? Backho hasn't been great this season but he's still much better than Perfectman (he beat Stork in R1).
Perfectman: 4-7 BackHo: 1-5
You were saying?
OZ's top 5: Jaedong (duh, 16-4), Princess (5-4), Anytime (1-2)/Killer (6-8), Perfectman (4-7). This is why OZ sucks right now.
Have you watched BW before this season?
Look, I'm just trying to say that *this season* BackHo's been terrible, while Perfectman has been merely bad, and occasionally even played well. Yah perfectman is fairly new, but BackHo hasn't even been passably good since he hurt his back @2 years ago. So I'm not sure what your argument was. I just brought up this season's records since I assumed you hadn't seen them; I get that BackHo used to be OZ's best P right after Anytime went to ACE, but with Anytime back and perfectman doing okay-ish, BackHo is (imo, and by record) probably Oz's 3rd best.
And to answer your question: yes, I have been watching BW for quite a few years now.
Backho hasn't been passably good since his back injury? What? Since his injury, he's beaten Stork (twice), great, Jangbi, Horang2, and Much. All respectable opponents. Meanwhile, what has Perfectman accomplished? Out of the four players that Perfectman beat in proleague this season, one of them is godawful (Saint) and the other one is completely inexperienced (Last). Backho may have lost most of his games but his opponents have all been pretty good (Snow, Frozen, Pure, Stork, Much, Ruby).
On December 18 2010 15:07 dukethegold wrote: Oz was once a legit powerhouse, fielded with an all star roster, and a leading contender for the PL championship.
True story.
Not only that, they even won one. And came second at least once.
too bad hiya decided that he wanted to join the lion dance troupe
On December 18 2010 15:07 dukethegold wrote: Oz was once a legit powerhouse, fielded with an all star roster, and a leading contender for the PL championship.
On December 18 2010 15:07 dukethegold wrote: Oz was once a legit powerhouse, fielded with an all star roster, and a leading contender for the PL championship.
True story.
They still can be if its still BO5.
back when forgg and anytime were good... oh oz.
Or R5, last season...
they were hardly championship contenders back then (unless you mean 08-09?), though they didn't lose as much.
On December 18 2010 15:07 dukethegold wrote: Oz was once a legit powerhouse, fielded with an all star roster, and a leading contender for the PL championship.
True story.
They still can be if its still BO5.
back when forgg and anytime were good... oh oz.
hey anytime is good.
well I think TurN is gonna finish this off nice and easy now.
On December 18 2010 14:45 DarkMatter_ wrote: Killer and Backho are Oz's best bets. Why do people keep bringing up that noob Perfectman instead of Backho? Backho hasn't been great this season but he's still much better than Perfectman (he beat Stork in R1).
Perfectman: 4-7 BackHo: 1-5
You were saying?
OZ's top 5: Jaedong (duh, 16-4), Princess (5-4), Anytime (1-2)/Killer (6-8), Perfectman (4-7). This is why OZ sucks right now.
Have you watched BW before this season?
Look, I'm just trying to say that *this season* BackHo's been terrible, while Perfectman has been merely bad, and occasionally even played well. Yah perfectman is fairly new, but BackHo hasn't even been passably good since he hurt his back @2 years ago. So I'm not sure what your argument was. I just brought up this season's records since I assumed you hadn't seen them; I get that BackHo used to be OZ's best P right after Anytime went to ACE, but with Anytime back and perfectman doing okay-ish, BackHo is (imo, and by record) probably Oz's 3rd best.
And to answer your question: yes, I have been watching BW for quite a few years now.
Backho hasn't been passably good since his back injury? What? Since his injury, he's beaten Stork (twice), great, Jangbi, Horang2, and Much. All respectable opponents. Meanwhile, what has Perfectman accomplished? Out of the four players that Perfectman beat in proleague this season, one of them is godawful (Saint) and the other one is completely inexperienced (Last). Backho may have lost most of his games but his opponents have all been pretty good (Snow, Frozen, Pure, Stork, Much, Ruby).
I have a feeling you're going fanboy on me here and won't listen, but look: Perfectman's got the better Proleague record. Okay, his opponents were a little easier; the record's still there. Perfectman made the MST and then made the MSL, going through by.hero's ZvP. Based on pure results, there's no argument that at this point perfectman is the better between them, and depending how Anytime looks may be OZ's best toss.
Is this pathetic? Yes. Would a BackHo resurrection be really really cool? Yes. Is BackHo the better player now? No.
On December 18 2010 15:07 dukethegold wrote: Oz was once a legit powerhouse, fielded with an all star roster, and a leading contender for the PL championship.
True story.
They still can be if its still BO5.
back when forgg and anytime were good... oh oz.
Or R5, last season...
they were hardly championship contenders back then (unless you mean 08-09?), though they didn't lose as much.
backhooooooooooooooo but bunker / rines / simcity here to save the day?
stork is ... hardly amused?
lol probe is here... CANNONS PLOX? oh just a scout. probe killed. scvs pulled to ramp? cc starts, so many marines for reality... he's held it off with his 2rax. they lift. bunker in nat for reality. backho's nexus has been up for a while though.
reality adds 2nd fact, like 9 rine 1 tank forces backho's zealots away
vulture still lives on top of backho's high ground but can't reach the probes on the mineral line - back ho commmitting with 6 zealots/4 goons attacking reality's nat - reality repairing the bunker
On December 18 2010 14:45 DarkMatter_ wrote: Killer and Backho are Oz's best bets. Why do people keep bringing up that noob Perfectman instead of Backho? Backho hasn't been great this season but he's still much better than Perfectman (he beat Stork in R1).
Perfectman: 4-7 BackHo: 1-5
You were saying?
OZ's top 5: Jaedong (duh, 16-4), Princess (5-4), Anytime (1-2)/Killer (6-8), Perfectman (4-7). This is why OZ sucks right now.
Have you watched BW before this season?
Look, I'm just trying to say that *this season* BackHo's been terrible, while Perfectman has been merely bad, and occasionally even played well. Yah perfectman is fairly new, but BackHo hasn't even been passably good since he hurt his back @2 years ago. So I'm not sure what your argument was. I just brought up this season's records since I assumed you hadn't seen them; I get that BackHo used to be OZ's best P right after Anytime went to ACE, but with Anytime back and perfectman doing okay-ish, BackHo is (imo, and by record) probably Oz's 3rd best.
And to answer your question: yes, I have been watching BW for quite a few years now.
Backho hasn't been passably good since his back injury? What? Since his injury, he's beaten Stork (twice), great, Jangbi, Horang2, and Much. All respectable opponents. Meanwhile, what has Perfectman accomplished? Out of the four players that Perfectman beat in proleague this season, one of them is godawful (Saint) and the other one is completely inexperienced (Last). Backho may have lost most of his games but his opponents have all been pretty good (Snow, Frozen, Pure, Stork, Much, Ruby).
I have a feeling you're going fanboy on me here and won't listen, but look: Perfectman's got the better Proleague record. Okay, his opponents were a little easier; the record's still there. Perfectman made the MST and then made the MSL, going through by.hero's ZvP. Based on pure results, there's no argument that at this point perfectman is the better between them, and depending how Anytime looks may be OZ's best toss.
Is this pathetic? Yes. Would a BackHo resurrection be really really cool? Yes. Is BackHo the better player now? No.
Simply having a better record in less than 2 rounds of proleague (while completely failing to consider the opponents that each player faced, and the quality of the games themselves) is not enough to claim that one player is better than another. All it proves is that Perfectman has produced better results this season.
Considering how Backho lost his entire army for nothing and has now both teched and expanded, Reality should be able to find a good timing. Nevermind, CC going down.
3rd cc for reality going up in nat, reaver totally deflected. backho loses a pylon in his wall to vults but defends successfully. TWO STARGATES + CARRIER
finally reality moving his army to clear out the proxy gate he's adding quite a few goliaths but not enough?
clash near the SW plateau - backho even drops his reaver, as if it could make an impact in such a large army confrontation slow shuttle gets picked off by ranged goliaths as it pulls back
reality ferries troops out of main? huh? ah, drop incoming into 3rd. backho evacuates. wow very successful defense though as reality sacs his dropship LOL
reality pushing, hitting proxy gate finally
2/0 air upgrades, 6 carriers out already
backho zeal/goon/1reaver trying to delay. shuttle sniped lol. both on 4 base. backho taking 5th, and the carriers move out!
On December 18 2010 15:34 Musoeun wrote: Am I the only one who thinks it might have been smarter to suicide the carriers to wipe out Reality's factories, and then remacro with zeal/goon?
That would be really, really dumb. Considering the upgrade disadvantage and how imba critical mass carriers are.
I am trying my hardest to get excited, but something tells me that whoever comes out next for Oz will inevitably fail horribly and send us all back into depression.
The key in late game PvT carriers in recent weeks seems to be kill off all command centers/scanners and then tech switch to mass DTs. No need to kill factories or SCVs when the opponent's units can't see yours.
On December 18 2010 15:46 Flushot wrote: I find it incredible that (like another poster said) every toss unit except the other air units was made in that game.
On December 18 2010 15:46 Flushot wrote: I find it incredible that (like another poster said) every toss unit except the other air units was made in that game.
Not really. He didn't make any archons or dark archons.
Poor guy, this is probably the most stressful time of his life. All comes down to you to tie it up, your first televised game against an established progamer... Hopefully we can get an ACE. Dolphin kick great!
On December 18 2010 15:53 XThunderyX wrote: Poor guy, this is probably the most stressful time of his life. All comes down to you to tie it up, your first televised game against an established progamer... Hopefully we can get an ACE. Dolphin kick great!
Don't think it's that stressful to be honest, no on is expecting anything from him.
On December 18 2010 15:53 XThunderyX wrote: Poor guy, this is probably the most stressful time of his life. All comes down to you to tie it up, your first televised game against an established progamer... Hopefully we can get an ACE. Dolphin kick great!
Don't think it's that stressful to be honest, no on is expecting anything from him.
I'm expecting something from him!!! Also, zerglings. Gah.
On December 18 2010 15:53 XThunderyX wrote: Poor guy, this is probably the most stressful time of his life. All comes down to you to tie it up, your first televised game against an established progamer... Hopefully we can get an ACE. Dolphin kick great!
On December 18 2010 15:56 OpticalShot wrote: LOL GG ALREADY YES KHAN ZOMG OK U GUYS KNOW THE PATTERN I TRANSLATE INTERVIEW NOBODY EFFING TOUCH YEAHHAHAHAHAHA KHAN YES WE KHAN
On December 18 2010 15:56 OpticalShot wrote: LOL GG ALREADY YES KHAN ZOMG OK U GUYS KNOW THE PATTERN I TRANSLATE INTERVIEW NOBODY EFFING TOUCH YEAHHAHAHAHAHA KHAN YES WE KHAN
I can't believe you're this excited about KHAN defeating OZ. I mean, they didn't even manage 4-1.
On December 18 2010 15:56 Apex wrote: Why GG so early? Your team is on the brink of elimination. Isn't it courtesy to at least try for the miracle comeback?
Lurkers on the way in a few minutes, no way to defend. It was over.
On December 18 2010 15:56 Apex wrote: Why GG so early? Your team is on the brink of elimination. Isn't it courtesy to at least try for the miracle comeback?
Lurkers on the way in a few minutes, no way to defend. It was over.
Hmm. :[
Seemed so abrupt, I don't know. I don't know what I just watched. 6 lings into GG.
You have no clue how ecstatic I get when Stork wins and Khan wins. Every victory is PRECIOUS! Khan is climbing the ranks! 2 more wins and into the playoff spots! Plus our team's momentum is good (besides poor Jangbi).
ANYWAYS.INTERVIEW IS MINE. Xiphos, I'll include the builder somewhere in the interview if I can remember it.
Sucks that we didn't get Stork vs. Jaedong ace match but I'm still happy that Khan won (also Backho won yay ^_^). Stork is one of the only progamers I'd give approximately 50-50 chances vs Jaedong so the game probably would have been awesome.
On December 18 2010 15:58 OpticalShot wrote: You have no clue how ecstatic I get when Stork wins and Khan wins. Every victory is PRECIOUS! Khan is climbing the ranks! 2 more wins and into the playoff spots! Plus our team's momentum is good (besides poor Jangbi).
ANYWAYS.INTERVIEW IS MINE. Xiphos, I'll include the builder somewhere in the interview if I can remember it.
HAHA, that's epic! Well off to sleep tight for now, thanks the streams and this thread!
On December 18 2010 16:55 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Woot KHAN looking good! 'cept for Jangbi but thats to be expected right :/? Anyway stork won a game so I'm happy :D
JangBi didn't look that bad considering it was against Jaedong. He played better than Snow or Stats did at least.
Damn, Dolphin?, Oz is so good at making play nobodies at Proleague games. Maybe if Idra had joined Oz instead of CJ entus, he would have stood a chance of playing a televised game.
Yeah IdrA would have definitely been better than this. =__=
Watched that game - one mistake cost terran the game. =/ Maybe he's not that bad, I think no. But really he's not Flash to come back from situation like this. =__=
On December 18 2010 13:49 SubtleArt wrote: Jaedong responded to Jangbi's strat so beautifully, GG
More like... JangBi had one 5-second timing window in the early game and then it was just a formality.
More like...Jaedong built just the right amount of stuff to survive while droning, Jangbi's +1 corsairs were wasted money, and a Protoss who tries to fight a 4 gas Zerg with 2 gas and 1 mineral only is completely hopeless.
On December 18 2010 13:49 SubtleArt wrote: Jaedong responded to Jangbi's strat so beautifully, GG
More like... JangBi had one 5-second timing window in the early game and then it was just a formality.
More like...Jaedong built just the right amount of stuff to survive while droning, Jangbi's +1 corsairs were wasted money, and a Protoss who tries to fight a 4 gas Zerg with 2 gas and 1 mineral only is completely hopeless.
Pretty sure that JangBi was on 3 Gas vs 4 gas at one point, JangBi should've early expanded himself with that group of Zealot (headed to the 6 o clock of JD's, which didn't do that much dmg to it except for killing ONE Sunkens) to a third gas expansion so he could get Reavers in time when Jaedong goes Dark Swarm mode but NOOO, he got to use those Zealots uselessly.
It's not quite at the same level as his other matchups but he still has by far the best ZvT on the scene (and keep in mind that unlike other zergs, he's constantly been having Bo3s and Bo5s against the top TvZ players as opposed to getting easy wins against scrubs).
In comparison the ZvTs of Zero, Soulkey, Calm and Action are 53%, 46%, 46% and 47% respectively.
EDIT 2: Besides, I still think Jaedong's ZvT is his most impressive matchup, purely in terms of skill and multitasking.
On December 18 2010 13:49 SubtleArt wrote: Jaedong responded to Jangbi's strat so beautifully, GG
More like... JangBi had one 5-second timing window in the early game and then it was just a formality.
More like...Jaedong built just the right amount of stuff to survive while droning, Jangbi's +1 corsairs were wasted money, and a Protoss who tries to fight a 4 gas Zerg with 2 gas and 1 mineral only is completely hopeless.
Pretty sure that JangBi was on 3 Gas vs 4 gas at one point, JangBi should've early expanded himself with that group of Zealot (headed to the 6 o clock of JD's, which didn't do that much dmg to it except for killing ONE Sunkens) to a third gas expansion so he could get Reavers in time when Jaedong goes Dark Swarm mode but NOOO, he got to use those Zealots uselessly.
No jangbi was always on 2 gas for most of the game and the 3rd he got was a mineral only. He had a fourth base running but it was only for like 30 seconds because lings killed it so doesnt count
On December 19 2010 01:31 DarkMatter_ wrote: BTW, Jaedong's vP winrate just hit 70%.
Now he only needs to get his horrible ZvT up there and he's just as cool as Flash. ^__^
It's not horrible, its still over 60%...that's really good for a Zerg considering how hard ZvT is and how many bullshit pre-muta or pre-defiler timing pushes there are
On December 19 2010 01:31 DarkMatter_ wrote: BTW, Jaedong's vP winrate just hit 70%.
Now he only needs to get his horrible ZvT up there and he's just as cool as Flash. ^__^
Jaedong will never get up there to Flash because, not the skill level involved, but the pure nature of ZvZ and ZvT. =) I saw a korean post about this a while back, I wish I could still find it
Poor Jangbi, just when his games started picking back up, he had to face Jaedong in ZvP.
On December 19 2010 05:50 lastmotion wrote: Jaedong will never get up there to Flash because, not the skill level involved, but the pure nature of ZvZ and ZvT. =)
roflmao
Anyone was talking about such shit in PvZ, and then there came Bisu and just out-buildordered Savior.)))))) Same thing may happen in ZvT too, there's so much space for development still in this 12-year-old game, you know...
About ZvZ i dunno, Jaedong already proved that it's all about skill level, not only a coinflip, I think. Although some luck factor is involved.
On December 19 2010 05:50 lastmotion wrote: Jaedong will never get up there to Flash because, not the skill level involved, but the pure nature of ZvZ and ZvT. =)
roflmao
Anyone was talking about such shit in PvZ, and then there came Bisu and just out-buildordered Savior.)))))) Same thing may happen in ZvT too, there's so much space for development still in this 12-year-old game, you know...
About ZvZ i dunno, Jaedong already proved that it's all about skill level, not only a coinflip, I think. Although some luck factor is involved.
You are seriously one of the most uninformed posters on teamliquid...please learn the game before commenting
On December 19 2010 05:50 lastmotion wrote: Jaedong will never get up there to Flash because, not the skill level involved, but the pure nature of ZvZ and ZvT. =)
roflmao
Anyone was talking about such shit in PvZ, and then there came Bisu and just out-buildordered Savior.)))))) Same thing may happen in ZvT too, there's so much space for development still in this 12-year-old game, you know...
About ZvZ i dunno, Jaedong already proved that it's all about skill level, not only a coinflip, I think. Although some luck factor is involved.
Bisu might have revolutionized PvZ but PvZ tilted back to Zerg's favor after Zerg players learned how to play against Protoss's FE Corsair Opening. In my opinion, ZvT is in a worse state than PvZ but feel free to prove me wrong. I don't even think it's right comparing PvZ to ZvT...at least PvZ has times during the game when Protoss is in strong favor (late late game with Archons + Reavers, and Mid-Game Goon + Zeal + Temp when Zergs need lurkers to hold it off) whereas for Zerg in ZvT, I think it's only the timing window of muta harrass and that's like a few minutes at best.
On December 18 2010 13:49 SubtleArt wrote: Jaedong responded to Jangbi's strat so beautifully, GG
More like... JangBi had one 5-second timing window in the early game and then it was just a formality.
More like...Jaedong built just the right amount of stuff to survive while droning, Jangbi's +1 corsairs were wasted money, and a Protoss who tries to fight a 4 gas Zerg with 2 gas and 1 mineral only is completely hopeless.
Pretty sure that JangBi was on 3 Gas vs 4 gas at one point, JangBi should've early expanded himself with that group of Zealot (headed to the 6 o clock of JD's, which didn't do that much dmg to it except for killing ONE Sunkens) to a third gas expansion so he could get Reavers in time when Jaedong goes Dark Swarm mode but NOOO, he got to use those Zealots uselessly.
No jangbi was always on 2 gas for most of the game and the 3rd he got was a mineral only. He had a fourth base running but it was only for like 30 seconds because lings killed it so doesnt count
On December 19 2010 05:50 lastmotion wrote: Jaedong will never get up there to Flash because, not the skill level involved, but the pure nature of ZvZ and ZvT. =)
roflmao
Anyone was talking about such shit in PvZ, and then there came Bisu and just out-buildordered Savior.)))))) Same thing may happen in ZvT too, there's so much space for development still in this 12-year-old game, you know...
About ZvZ i dunno, Jaedong already proved that it's all about skill level, not only a coinflip, I think. Although some luck factor is involved.
You are seriously one of the most uninformed posters on teamliquid...please learn the game before commenting
Wouldn't you bother with telling the actual points where I'm mistaken, instead of this unargumented trashtalk -___- Really, good ol' teamliquid trend of insulting newcomer members. -___- Thank you very much, you really create a positive image for this site. Hope that 99% other people here aren't the same.
I was just simply trying to tell that the "nature of a matchup" is an always evolving thing, because each race's gameplay changes from time to time. And as for Zerg race, some people following this game since the beginning, believe that Zerg might be the race that benefits the most from good management (or simply the "theoretically best race"). And I have some reasons to believe them because they've made some good predictions on the match-up evolution that proved to be correct. So that's why I believe that some time after some Zerg players find the way to prove this. Although now you're free to cast a shitstorm on me or anyone who claims anything similar because we have no "proofs"
On December 19 2010 05:50 lastmotion wrote: Jaedong will never get up there to Flash because, not the skill level involved, but the pure nature of ZvZ and ZvT. =)
roflmao
Anyone was talking about such shit in PvZ, and then there came Bisu and just out-buildordered Savior.)))))) Same thing may happen in ZvT too, there's so much space for development still in this 12-year-old game, you know...
About ZvZ i dunno, Jaedong already proved that it's all about skill level, not only a coinflip, I think. Although some luck factor is involved.
Bisu might have revolutionized PvZ but PvZ tilted back to Zerg's favor after Zerg players learned how to play against Protoss's FE Corsair Opening. In my opinion, ZvT is in a worse state than PvZ but feel free to prove me wrong. I don't even think it's right comparing PvZ to ZvT...at least PvZ has times during the game when Protoss is in strong favor (late late game with Archons + Reavers, and Mid-Game Goon + Zeal + Temp when Zergs need lurkers to hold it off) whereas for Zerg in ZvT, I think it's only the timing window of muta harrass and that's like a few minutes at best.
I can't actually prove you wrong as I've said before, but there's just a sense that Zerg has a resource for evolution. If Zerg can find a way to minimize the damage from vessels and kill them more efficiently, get safe gas expansions beyond the initial 2 gas bases, react to drops properly and keep up with the Terran upgrades, then they will get big advantage, because their tech has more potential. But all must be carefully adapted to the maps and players. =)
On December 19 2010 05:50 lastmotion wrote: Jaedong will never get up there to Flash because, not the skill level involved, but the pure nature of ZvZ and ZvT. =)
During 'Swarm Season' in 2009, ZvT favoured Zerg, with Jaedong leading the pack. If there are Zerg favoured maps and/or innovations in ZvT strategy, it could potentially happen again. JvZ is not like it used to be when JD simply had way better muta micro than everyone else, but his ZvZ record (both recent and overall) still rivals Flash's TvT (it's actually better overall).
Since ZvZ is more build order based than TvT, Jaedong's probably more likely to lose individual games to random zergs than Flash is to random Terrans (although Flash's MSL games seem to indicate otherwise), but in a BoX, there's nothing to indicate that JD is more likely to lose to a Zerg than Flash is to T in a BoX. I don't know if Jaedong will ever reach the God mode level of Flash, but it doesn't seem like the nature of ZvZ and ZvT is what will prevent him from doing so.
On December 19 2010 05:50 lastmotion wrote: Jaedong will never get up there to Flash because, not the skill level involved, but the pure nature of ZvZ and ZvT. =)
During 'Swarm Season' in 2009, ZvT favoured Zerg, with Jaedong leading the pack. .
From what I remember, "Swarm Season" Z and T was 50/50
Not to mention Swarm Season was seriously one season long versus TvZ years of dominance
@ SplashbackFerret: given who actually won the game, were you expecting anything else? ^_^.
I am really getting sad and exasperated watching Oz like this. Can someone explain why HiyA is slumping this badly? He's doing almost as bad as the Oz protosses last year. >_<. Poor Killer had to be matched up against Stork of all people.
Is it just me, or are Oz Protoss > Oz Terran this season?
I can't imagine how pissed Jaedong must be at his teammates right now. He's devoting so much time to practicing for PL, and his teammates keep failing him.