EPTOn August 21 2010 15:12 tree.hugger wrote:
Why do game fives never ever live up to the series that proceeded it?
Why do game fives never ever live up to the series that proceeded it?
Stork vs Fantasy OSL comes to mind : )
Congrats JD.
[MSL] Semi-Final B: Light vs Jaedong - Page 97
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
|
Confuse
2238 Posts
Stork vs Fantasy OSL comes to mind : ) Congrats JD. | ||
|
Silan
Denmark198 Posts
On August 22 2010 02:18 DarkMatter_ wrote: The VODs are available on wfbrood: http://www.wfbrood.com/xingji/hanguoxingji/xingji_54028.html Although, they tend to take forever to load so you might just want to wait for them to be uploaded in YouTube. Sigh. I've been trying desperatly to find vods without having the games spoiled, and finally i find this post and is so very happy, until i click and realize that the results is the first thing on the page i see  .+ Show Spoiler + Oh well, another Jaedong vs Flash final, gonna be awesome! | ||
|
Rodiel
France573 Posts
| ||
|
1a2a3aPro
Canada227 Posts
| ||
|
DarkMatter_
Canada1774 Posts
On August 23 2010 06:29 Silan wrote: Sigh. I've been trying desperatly to find vods without having the games spoiled, and finally i find this post and is so very happy, until i click and realize that the results is the first thing on the page i see .+ Show Spoiler + Oh well, another Jaedong vs Flash final, gonna be awesome! Fuck, sorry. That didn't cross my mind when I posted the link. Probably should've posted the links to the actual games themselves. EDIT: Also, I think I quoted the wrong person when I posted that link. o_O | ||
|
koreasilver
9109 Posts
On August 22 2010 02:25 konadora wrote: lmfao tell me about it :/ colosseum 1 so fucking imba rofl if it was colosseum 2 the depot wall would have gone down -.- and tiamat lololololol Tiamat was so lols. | ||
|
Djin)ftw(
Germany3357 Posts
3 hatch before pool into 4 gas mass mut/command center "snipe" with queens awesome, didn't think it's still possible as zerg to own a terran | ||
|
khellian
Korea (South)922 Posts
| ||
|
qrs
United States3637 Posts
Game 4 The queens in game 4 were not just to psych out Light, and they certainly were not BM. They were a brilliant strategy, which only Jaedong (and maybe Zero on a good day) would even have thought about pulling off in a must-win game in the MSL semi-finals. Without both queens, Jaedong would never have succeeded in sniping both CCs, which was the knock-out blow that took Light out of the game. Sure, he would have sniped the first one, and he would have been far ahead, but he would not have put the game away. As the queen infested that second CC, valkyries and goliaths were already chasing the mutas away. Without the queen or the time gained by the first infest, that command center would have lived. The difference between one base of income for Light vs two bases, against the four bases Jaedong had by then is enormous. Of course the double infestation had psychological value too, and if you doubted that, all you had to do was look at Light's face after the game.+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/AWKN1.png) Game 5 Game 5 was not at all a mindless, Kwanro-esque all-in, as some people seem to think. It was brilliant psychological series play of the sort Jaedong is famous for (there's a reason that no one--not even Flash--has a better record than Jaedong in best-of-5 series). It wasn't just "mutas-vs.-late-turrets-instawin/Light-is-a-C+-newb". Although he doesn't get enough recognition for it, Light is one of the best TvZ players out there; probably second only to Flash. He doesn't just forget his timings. There's a reason that the turrets were late. Jaedong was capitalizing not only on Light's nerves in game 5, but on his lack of scouting information (due to Jaedong's doing an excellent job of blocking Light's scouting) and especially on Light's conditioning from game 1. The last thing that Light saw in Jaedong's base was the lair just beginning to go down. The map was Polaris Rhapsody, which is very good for TvZ in the late game. Jaedong had won the first game with a nearly all-in ling bust, which Light was a few seconds too slow in reacting too. From everything Light could see, Jaedong was going for a ling bust once again. Based on his assumption, Light was making the right decision in delaying turrets and going for firebats. Had Jaedong really been going all-in ling, Light would have been in a very good position after holding it off, despite the substantial damage that Jaedong did at first. Light didn't know about the spire. He was not "forced into" making firebats or delaying the e-bay. He chose to do those things because he had no idea that Jaedong had dropped a spire as soon as the lair finished. Can anyone really think that Light would have been "forced" into making firebats, knowing that mutas were on the way? If he had had a clue about the spire, he would certainly not have made anything but marines and medics. The few seconds of getting splash damage against the lings Jaedong was transitioning out of were certainly not worth it, and Light would certainly have known that. The reason Light was caught with his turrets down was that a) Jaedong did a great job at blocking scouting, b) Jaedong did a great job at faking a ling all-in (with his micro, Jaedong sometimes seems to have twice as many lings as he really does), and c) game 1 of the series had gotten into Light's head. And Jaedong knew it had. And that's why Kwanro is  Kwanro and Jaedong is Jaedong. | ||
|
Kuzmorgo
Hungary1058 Posts
On August 23 2010 02:04 Confuse wrote: Stork vs Fantasy OSL comes to mind : ) Congrats JD. Or Iris vs Bisu MSL (Like a year ago) (Ro8 iirc) Game 5 was pretty epic | ||
|
Kuzmorgo
Hungary1058 Posts
On August 23 2010 23:09 qrs wrote: Light didn't know about the spire. He was not "forced into" making firebats or delaying the e-bay. He chose to do those things because he had no idea that Jaedong had dropped a spire as soon as the lair finished. Can anyone really think that Light would have been "forced" into making firebats, knowing that mutas were on the way? If he had had a clue about the spire, he would certainly not have made anything but marines and medics. The few seconds of getting splash damage against the lings Jaedong was transitioning out of were certainly not worth it, and Light would certainly have known that. The reason Light was caught with his turrets down was that a) Jaedong did a great job at blocking scouting, b) Jaedong did a great job at faking a ling all-in (with his micro, Jaedong sometimes seems to have twice as many lings as he really does), and c) game 1 of the series had gotten into Light's head. And Jaedong knew it had. And that's why Kwanro is Kwanro and Jaedong is Jaedong.my response to the bolded section: Although he didnt see the spire he saw the lair morphing, the constant gas mining, and the second gas building. So unless he assumed that Jaedong built a third hatchery, he should have known its going to be 2hatch mutas. And also, if Jaedong had built a 3rd hatch, he couldnt have afforded so many lings, so that should have tipped him off. Thats my opinion at least, and I am not saying that Jaedong didnt deserve that win. | ||
|
FirstProbe
1206 Posts
If Flash learns anything from these games, and the WCG final, it's that Jaedong's late game doesn't compare, and that terran vulnerabilities lie against a semi-all-in approach, when fast expanding. If he walls and bunkers appropriately, I guarantee a Flash victory. | ||
|
qrs
United States3637 Posts
On August 24 2010 00:00 Kuzmorgo wrote: my response to the bolded section: Although he didnt see the spire he saw the lair morphing, the constant gas mining, and the second gas building. So unless he assumed that Jaedong built a third hatchery, he should have known its going to be 2hatch mutas. And also, if Jaedong had built a 3rd hatch, he couldnt have afforded so many lings, so that should have tipped him off. Thats my opinion at least, and I am not saying that Jaedong didnt deserve that win. On August 24 2010 02:13 FirstProbe wrote: OK, I shouldn't have been so certain in my tone. I admit I'm only speculating about what Light did or didn't suspect. I'll grant that it's definitely possible that he expected them but didn't have the ability to prepare for them in time. He didn't get his e-bay up in time in the first game either (although mutas weren't needed that game).No, Light knew the mutalisks were coming. He just couldn't prepare for it. The truth is when you put yourself under such pressure from a zergling raid, that you lose all sense of timing, and your engineering bay will inevitably be late. Light would also be short on minerals from the use of blocking SCVs. The truth is, 7 mutalisks can do a hell of a lot of damage when you're not ready, and Jaedong took full advantage of that. The main reason that I think that Light was expecting a delayed spire from Jaedong is the firebats. If he was expecting mutas to be out at a 2-hatch timing, why would he pump so many firebats just before they would pop? Of course it's possible that that was just a bad decision under pressure, but I give Light more credit than that. On August 24 2010 02:13 FirstProbe wrote: I think it's more complicated than that. Just the threat of all-ins and 'semi-all-ins' makes Jaedong's overall game stronger. Every defensive investment that Flash makes and corner that he is forced not to cut will give Jaedong greater parity econ-wise, which in turn will strengthen him in the late game. It's not like you can call Jaedong's late game a weakness of his, even if you think that Flash has the edge there.If Flash learns anything from these games, and the WCG final, it's that Jaedong's late game doesn't compare, and that terran vulnerabilities lie against a semi-all-in approach, when fast expanding. If he walls and bunkers appropriately, I guarantee a Flash victory. | ||
|
FirstProbe
1206 Posts
Jaedong has already admitted that he fears Flash the most. Regardless, if Jaedong wishes to control the game, he'll have to exploit the early game weakness. If he doesn't, Flash will take it to the late game, and have the advantage. Please note that Flash overextended in the second WCG game and got punished. | ||
swanized
Canada2480 Posts
On August 23 2010 02:04 Confuse wrote: Stork vs Fantasy OSL comes to mind : ) Congrats JD. Daum OSL 2007 | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
| ||
|
]343[
United States10328 Posts
On August 24 2010 02:13 FirstProbe wrote: No, Light knew the mutalisks were coming. He just couldn't prepare for it. The truth is when you put yourself under such pressure from a zergling raid, that you lose all sense of timing, and your engineering bay will inevitably be late. Light would also be short on minerals from the use of blocking SCVs. The truth is, 7 mutalisks can do a hell of a lot of damage when you're not ready, and Jaedong took full advantage of that. I thought it was this. The ling raid did an excellent job of distracting light. I think (?) he only made his ebay once he deflected the lings. | ||
|
jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On August 23 2010 23:09 qrs wrote: Kwanro 3-0 Light Jaedong 3-2 Light Your post in simpler form.  | ||
|
Gescom
Canada3511 Posts
| ||
|
Wfat
Australia108 Posts
It's crazy how Jaedong can make only 8-10 zerglings seem like so much more. | ||
| ||
