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[MSL] Ro8 Day 1 - Page 49

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5617 Posts
August 05 2010 11:59 GMT
#961
terran mech takes away all the fun in watching tvz. we need some protoss dt drops to restore balance in the game.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Shatter
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1401 Posts
August 05 2010 11:59 GMT
#962
On August 05 2010 20:57 DarkMatter_ wrote:
That game is making me rage so hard.

Fuck the MSL and its shitty map pool. How the hell is zerg supposed to beat that? Jaedong, as usual, was the much better player than the shitty Terran opponent with their turtling mech bullshit. Sea sucks and didn't deserve to win that. He just let a huge bunch of tanks get killed early on (first to mutas and then to the flank) without even noticing it until the last second because hey, who needs basic multitasking when you can just abuse TvZ and map imbalance.
Sea sucks? I guess 95% of progamers suck under your standards.
4Servy
Profile Joined August 2008
Netherlands1542 Posts
August 05 2010 12:00 GMT
#963
its bo5 with other maps to play so jd can still take it if hes the better player.
AJ-
Profile Joined April 2010
United States316 Posts
August 05 2010 12:00 GMT
#964
On August 05 2010 20:55 revy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2010 20:51 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 05 2010 20:45 Yxes2211 wrote:
On August 05 2010 20:44 Melancholia wrote:
No, really, what the fuck. Zero's mass drops, Effort's Ultraling, and now Jaedong's MutaHydraLingSwarmDrop. None even close. What. The. Fuck.


Zero was vs Flash and played the best of the three, coming very very close. Effort's mid game was horrible, just like he fell asleep for 5-10 minutes and streamed units and expanding drones in to die + he wasted huge money on ineffective guardians...and JD had a massive edge after smashing that first push but then repeatedly suicided his armies for minimal dmg for the rest of the game (he is too hard-headed sometimes, just kept attacking when just holding the high ground and taking the map was clearly a better play). He should've secured top right alot earlier and waited for Sea to move out on 3 gas vs 7...they need to start treating mech like PvT, abuse mobility and not a-move into defensive positions.


OMG what do you mean I cant a move into terran defense setups?!!?!?!?!

This sounds just like the SC2 arguments against mech when 95% of the zergs just a-move into my tank setup.


i doubt the top 3 z progamers in this msl are "a-moving into a tank setup." although the end of effort's game looked exactly like that, i think by that time he knew he lost. let's not compare him to diamond sc2
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
August 05 2010 12:00 GMT
#965
On August 05 2010 21:00 4Servy wrote:
its bo5 with other maps to play so jd can still take it if hes the better player.


Yeah but odd-eye 3 seems to be favoring terrans too.
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
August 05 2010 12:01 GMT
#966
On August 05 2010 21:00 4Servy wrote:
its bo5 with other maps to play so jd can still take it if hes the better player.

My other half, snowdrift, and I agree that it's going to be LWWW.

I don't really hate Terran other than when I'm raging. I just don't like maps. Dreamliner? Heh. PR? Yeah...

At least FS is pretty even...
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9071 Posts
August 05 2010 12:01 GMT
#967
on days like this the BW Tourney forum can get as bad as the SC2 forums but I still love the game more so its more fun haha
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
JohnColtrane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia4813 Posts
August 05 2010 12:02 GMT
#968
that 2gas expo in the corner (the one on the terran's side) seems the key to all of this. in all 3 games (flash>zero, light>effort, sea>jaedong), the zerg just ended up dying trying to hold/take that expansion

no fucking idea how to remedy that though
HEY MEYT
jodogohoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada2533 Posts
August 05 2010 12:02 GMT
#969
map is imbalanced, but it produces fun and entertaining games, and that's what it's all about =)
Malinor
Profile Joined November 2008
Germany4758 Posts
August 05 2010 12:02 GMT
#970
It's of course the map, nothing wrong with tvz mech besides that it's sometimes frustrating to watch.

Everytime a game plays out like this there is so many comments on "lol, he just suicided his whole army, he is bad/sloppy/whatever".
Well, zerg cannot wait forever to attack (200/200 terranmech with 5k/2k in the bank won't be too nice for zerg). Late game, each attack they go in with like 120 food worth of stuff and if one attack is misstimed it gets pretty difficult.

On other maps you can drop the main and fun stuff like that, but on Polaris it's pretty easy for terran to cover everything and slowly take their half.

Still, Light and Sea are not your average terrans, you have to give them credit for their execution.
"Withstand. Suffer. Live as you must now live. There will, one day, be answer to this." ||| "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come."
luckybeni2
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany1065 Posts
August 05 2010 12:03 GMT
#971
On August 05 2010 20:59 Shatter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2010 20:57 DarkMatter_ wrote:
That game is making me rage so hard.

Fuck the MSL and its shitty map pool. How the hell is zerg supposed to beat that? Jaedong, as usual, was the much better player than the shitty Terran opponent with their turtling mech bullshit. Sea sucks and didn't deserve to win that. He just let a huge bunch of tanks get killed early on (first to mutas and then to the flank) without even noticing it until the last second because hey, who needs basic multitasking when you can just abuse TvZ and map imbalance.
Sea sucks? I guess 95% of progamers suck under your standards.

Well, if someone sais these things he can't be taken seriously. Sea has an over 60% win ratio and he is in th leagues for like forever.
Firien
Profile Joined April 2010
Poland115 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-05 12:07:02
August 05 2010 12:03 GMT
#972
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Zerg_vs._Mech_Terran_Guide
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Liquipedia_QnA_Episode_1
readin'
Monsen
Profile Joined December 2002
Germany2548 Posts
August 05 2010 12:05 GMT
#973
Hard to argue points when theres so much idiocy in this "discussion".
Jaedongs early game was pretty much flawless, those "bad attacks" that lost him the game or "mistakes" as you call them are basically 80% the maps fault, not Jaedongs. Yeah, "a-moving into the tank ball" is stupid. However options are pretty limited when there's no way to flank. Sure you can pull some miracle composition/control out of your ass, but the Zerg shouldn't be forced to perform miracles when being up a dozen bases and facing a "strategy" that revolves around the (terran mech) equivalent of "a-moving".
11 years and counting- TL #680
Cpadolf
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden1199 Posts
August 05 2010 12:05 GMT
#974
And of course this is the map that will be played twice...
Hyde
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia14568 Posts
August 05 2010 12:06 GMT
#975
On August 05 2010 20:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2010 20:53 Hyde wrote:
On August 05 2010 20:50 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
On August 05 2010 20:46 tomatriedes wrote:
On August 05 2010 20:44 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
pretty bad map for zerg

the majority of you are complete idiots though


No. we're just not big sea/terran fanboys like you. Some of us actually want other races to have a chance.


look here dingleberry, the vast majority of you slobbering cretins can't tell when a zerg player makes the wrong decisions in the first place

it's a goddamned miracle you can identify a map that's bad for zerg. durp durp, imba this, imba that, terran is unfair. the only thing that happened in those last 2 games was someone picked terran!

So what could Jaedong have done differently to win this game? How should Zergs approach mech play? Please enlighten me because I honestly don't know


on this map there's really not a lot. because of the gigantic rush distance, anything pool-first and a lot of 2-base all-in builds simply don't work. if he saw this build coming, 2hatch muta would have been vastly preferable to his slow 3hatch build, but by no means a guaranteed win.

jaedong's ineffectual muta harass put him in a small hole initially, and he did very well to climb out through some smart unit control. choosing hydralisk as the backbone of his army wasn't a great idea, an extra two hatcheries and lurker/ling would have been preferable and would have given jaedong some much-needed map control before sea's mech transition occured. had he done that, sea wouldn't have been able to so easily cut the map in half, though with the way this map is set up i suspect it's something of an inevitability.

Thanks for the reply and insight FS. The map definitely brings out some tough ZvTs
Because when you left, Brood War was all spotlights and titans. Now, with the death of the big leagues, Brood War has moved to the basements and carparks. Now, Brood War is unlicensed brawls, lost teeth, and bloody fights for fistfulls of money - SirJolt
DarkMatter_
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1774 Posts
August 05 2010 12:06 GMT
#976
On August 05 2010 21:03 Firien wrote:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Zerg_vs._Mech_Terran_Guide
readin'

There's a big difference between regular mech versus the bio into lategame mech transition.
jodogohoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada2533 Posts
August 05 2010 12:10 GMT
#977
would plague drops with muta hydra work?
DarkMatter_
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1774 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-05 12:17:07
August 05 2010 12:15 GMT
#978
I wonder how many of the people saying "don't throw your units at the terran defense" are protoss players. Unlike Protoss, zerg have no proper lategame answer to a 200/200 3/3 mech army. No storms, no statsis/recall, no carriers, no buff speedlots. The only way to control a mech army like that is to slowly whittle it down and not let it get too big. If the mech ball gets too big, it won't matter if the zerg is on 7 bases vs 4, the terran can pretty much just walk in to each zerg base and destroy it.
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
August 05 2010 12:15 GMT
#979
You could tell Mech was getting real powerful when Hyuk, Effort and others were going to the extent of trying queens for broodling in the matchup.
jackknight
Profile Joined March 2010
United States51 Posts
August 05 2010 12:16 GMT
#980
I am not going to argue against people opinion because everyone is bias, whether it is their favorite player or their personal race.
There must have been a recent patch for SC:BW that made people complain about T being imbalance? I mean, looking at the past winner of OSL/MSL, you can clearly see the imbalance race.

So, when did this imbalance conversation became so annoying every dam day? Until I see constant race (such as when Zerg dominated in the 08-09 MSL/OSL) win every time, I rather read better analysis of the game/map/player than some junk post.
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