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On July 10 2010 10:53 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 10:49 EvoChamber wrote:On July 10 2010 10:47 FireGuyX wrote:On July 10 2010 10:47 koreasilver wrote:
No, you do not understand the game. That's your opinion. But it's also the truth. Yup it's the undeniable truth I must accept in TL *sarcasm*. I understand the game, I know what's going on, I know who's winning, and I do recognize some built when I read the other TL users comments. It's not like I can't tell who's low on econ, and how much resources X player lost, etc. Again I'll admit I don't fully understand it, but I know when X player is in trouble, etc, etc.
So are you like a SC2gg commentator or something?
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On July 10 2010 11:06 EvoChamber wrote:![[image loading]](http://i33.tinypic.com/2q3dboz.jpg)
Dude you forgot "oh btw I haven't eaten at all this month haha and I just decided to quit my job because it has been too tiring, so please donate so I can get food"
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I'm the only one who liked Cholera huh
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Wow, I guess people here don't really watch great. Either that, or fanboyism just get in the way of not making constructive statements.
Of course great didn't invent simcity. And no, he's not a revolutionary zerg. But if you watch great play ZvP, and I have done so quite a bit as a Samsung fan, you'll see that great turtles like his life depends on it. In today's metagame when most zergs go with 5 hatch hydra til the game ends, great often goes with lurkers, and tries to turtle into 4-bases before moving out. I won't say it's good or bad, but that's his style.
So while simcities don't kill speedlot/archon, having extra sunkens do. I mean, the whole "perfected simcity" common these days was in response to the era where protoss use their 2-archon speedlot attack. As the metagame changed from that era, zergs have since skimped on defense as now it's all about hydra rushes. But you can say great is kind of a throwback zerg, who prefers the longer macro game. So his extra early game defense is indeed a perfect counter to Movie's timing attacks.
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fireguyx are you serious? i mean logically most of your posts are... fail.
stuff like not knowing what 9pool is, using burrowed lings and great invented sim city is..
take our comments to heart and think before you post, theres a reason why people are treating you as an idiot
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The turtle until 4gas kicks in thing was pioneered much more by Zero and Effort. These two preceded Great in this defensive style of play. If you've ever actually been paying attention to ZvP the past year, particularly Zero's games then you would have known this a long time ago. Great actually is a pretty decent player but to attribute him over the actual pioneers (who are better at the style of play as well) is kinda lol.
As for the "skimping on defense" I'm just going to have to point you to recent ZvP games again. Zergs are much more conservative and willing to spend resources on defenses than before. Whereas in the earlier days of 3hatch lair -> hydra builds sunks were something that was tried to be avoided, building a minimum of one sunk at the nat and the third is an automated process in modern ZvP with the 3hatch lair builds now. To say, "zergs have since skimped on defense as now it's all about hydra rushes," is just untrue, both in the skimping defense accusation and of hydra rushes, again which if you've actually been paying attention you would have realized that the 3hatch lair builds have become much more diverse.
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On July 10 2010 12:18 shawster wrote:
fireguyx are you serious? i mean logically most of your posts are... fail.
stuff like not knowing what 9pool is, using burrowed lings and great invented sim city is..
take our comments to heart and think before you post, theres a reason why people are treating you as an idiot
You fail if you think I'm going to take your messages to the heart. I already have admitted I'm not too knowledge about SC so your insults are meaningless. Okay I shouldn't have posted and tried to discredit Jaedong's win, but that was more about me being a fan of Movie and I was hoping to see Jaedong knocked out of the OSL again.
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Baa?21243 Posts
On July 10 2010 12:08 jalstar wrote:
I'm the only one who liked Cholera huh
Cholera's the only one I like from SC2GG :3
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On July 10 2010 12:22 koreasilver wrote:
The turtle until 4gas kicks in thing was pioneered much more by Zero and Effort. These two preceded Great in this defensive style of play. If you've ever actually been paying attention to ZvP the past year, particularly Zero's games then you would have known this a long time ago. Great actually is a pretty decent player but to attribute him over the actual pioneers (who are better at the style of play as well) is kinda lol.
Please, at least freaking read before you get defensive. Like I said, I know great didn't invent jack shit. I only said his style generally counters Movie's style. You can talk about other players who play the same way, whatever.
As for the "skimping on defense" I'm just going to have to point you to recent ZvP games again. Zergs are much more conservative and willing to spend resources on defenses than before. Whereas in the earlier days of 3hatch lair -> hydra builds sunks were something that was tried to be avoided, building a minimum of one sunk at the nat and the third is an automated process in modern ZvP with the 3hatch lair builds now. To say, "zergs have since skimped on defense as now it's all about hydra rushes," is just untrue, both in the skimping defense accusation and of hydra rushes, again which if you've actually been paying attention you would have realized that the 3hatch lair builds have become much more diverse.
And why Movie's PvZ has started to go down hill. You are right, zergs are becoming more diverse than previously, after numerous protosses found timings at which zergs are vulnerable in their 3-base/5 hatch builds. Hence, the timings just aren't there as much as they used to be.
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On July 09 2010 21:03 samachking wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 21:01 Yggdrasil Leaf wrote:On July 09 2010 20:59 LucasWoJ wrote:On July 09 2010 20:56 Kiante wrote:
Once again movie shows how terrible he is lol...Movie is among the best PvZers in the world. Jaedong just raped him. And why? Because PvZ is imbalanced. It's no use denying or using semantics anymore, ever since sim cities were perfected a toss win needs miracles or invisible ninjas. And because Sair/Reaver stopped working against JD since Bisu vs JD on andromeda, seriously, it's almost auto loss against JD, but on maps like these it's not like they have better choices.
Recently it seemed like Toss were starting to look a little better but JDvP is ridiculous.
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On July 10 2010 12:36 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 12:18 shawster wrote:
fireguyx are you serious? i mean logically most of your posts are... fail.
stuff like not knowing what 9pool is, using burrowed lings and great invented sim city is..
take our comments to heart and think before you post, theres a reason why people are treating you as an idiot You fail if you think I'm going to take your messages to the heart. I already have admitted I'm not too knowledge about SC so your insults are meaningless. Okay I shouldn't have posted and tried to discredit Jaedong's win, but that was more about me being a fan of Movie and I was hoping to see Jaedong knocked out of the OSL again.
alright do whatever you want, but just be ready for insults because what you say is wrong.
stop giving false information
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Gee, you guys are being kind of hard on FireGuyX. He's just trying to contribute; he might make mistakes, but he hasn't taken an arrogant attitude: he's admitted that he doesn't know everything about SC. I've got no problem with people criticizing the content of his posts, but there's really no need to be so personal about it.
Besides, although I remember when Fireguy's first posts were occasionally...ignorant, which people are still holding against him, his posting has improved a lot, and actually, his posts here did make a fair point: Movie's PvZ style is very aggressive, very heavy on the archon-zealot push (at a point in the "metagame" when few other PvZ'ers are playing that way), and that makes a zerg Sim City particularly important against him. Sure, Zergs have been making those for a long time, but the difference between a good sim city and a bad one is particularly crucial against movie. Jaedong makes good ones.
I'm not saying there was nothing to criticize in FGX's post: clearly he was reaching too far when he tried to add historical context, but in any case, it doesn't hurt to be civil when you criticize someone, and it makes everyone more cheerful. MHO.
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Here is my FireGuyX cheerful.
![[image loading]](http://i26.tinypic.com/29waghs.jpg)
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On July 10 2010 10:53 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 10:49 EvoChamber wrote:On July 10 2010 10:47 FireGuyX wrote:On July 10 2010 10:47 koreasilver wrote:
No, you do not understand the game. That's your opinion. But it's also the truth. Yup it's the undeniable truth I must accept in TL. *sarcasm*. I understand the game, I know what's going on, I know who's winning, and I do recognize some builts when I read the other TL users comments. It's not like I can't tell who's low on econ, and how much resources X player lost, etc. Again I'll admit I don't fully understand it, but I know when X player is in trouble, etc, etc.
The problem is you admit you don't know as much about other people and when you try to make these big descriptive posts about the complex mechanics of the game, people call you out on not knowing as much as you act like you know. You then backtrack and say you know enough to justify your statements, but much more experienced and vetted forumers continue to correct you. In spite of accepting that you could be wrong about the mechanics of the game (The evo/hatch/hydra wall on the sunken colony has been popular for the last 3 years, man, this is nothing new), you steadfastly ignore the point and take issue with people being sarcastic which, let's be honest, isn't that big a deal.
It's okay to be wrong about things, especially in a game as complex as this. You seem to go on these ten post, massive wall of text tirades whenever someone disagrees with you until you finally HAVE to accept it because there's like 5 people telling you what's up. Just suck it up and take the critique instead of getting all uppity at first.
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On July 12 2010 00:49 McDonalds wrote:Here is my FireGuyX cheerful.
I'm a fan of Movie, but not that big of a fan.
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On July 11 2010 23:42 qrs wrote:
Gee, you guys are being kind of hard on FireGuyX. He's just trying to contribute; he might make mistakes, but he hasn't taken an arrogant attitude: he's admitted that he doesn't know everything about SC. I've got no problem with people criticizing the content of his posts, but there's really no need to be so personal about it.
Besides, although I remember when Fireguy's first posts were occasionally...ignorant, which people are still holding against him, his posting has improved a lot, and actually, his posts here did make a fair point: Movie's PvZ style is very aggressive, very heavy on the archon-zealot push (at a point in the "metagame" when few other PvZ'ers are playing that way), and that makes a zerg Sim City particularly important against him. Sure, Zergs have been making those for a long time, but the difference between a good sim city and a bad one is particularly crucial against movie. Jaedong makes good ones.
I'm not saying there was nothing to criticize in FGX's post: clearly he was reaching too far when he tried to add historical context, but in any case, it doesn't hurt to be civil when you criticize someone, and it makes everyone more cheerful. MHO.
I always wondered why Bisu, Stork, and many other protoss don't use a unit composition of archons and zealots early in the game, although Jangbi recently was successful with that unit composition against Hoejja. Movie still falters under pressure despite playing over 130 games. Maybe he needs to use more goons to break the zerg sim-city wall, I don't know.
Movie had the lead against Jaedong in G2 (when Jaedong failed with the hydra push), but Movie didn't know how to capitalize with the lead. If he just pushed with his reaver and his remaining units after the failed hydra push he would have won G2.
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Must post in this thread.
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On July 12 2010 06:14 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2010 23:42 qrs wrote:
Gee, you guys are being kind of hard on FireGuyX. He's just trying to contribute; he might make mistakes, but he hasn't taken an arrogant attitude: he's admitted that he doesn't know everything about SC. I've got no problem with people criticizing the content of his posts, but there's really no need to be so personal about it.
Besides, although I remember when Fireguy's first posts were occasionally...ignorant, which people are still holding against him, his posting has improved a lot, and actually, his posts here did make a fair point: Movie's PvZ style is very aggressive, very heavy on the archon-zealot push (at a point in the "metagame" when few other PvZ'ers are playing that way), and that makes a zerg Sim City particularly important against him. Sure, Zergs have been making those for a long time, but the difference between a good sim city and a bad one is particularly crucial against movie. Jaedong makes good ones.
I'm not saying there was nothing to criticize in FGX's post: clearly he was reaching too far when he tried to add historical context, but in any case, it doesn't hurt to be civil when you criticize someone, and it makes everyone more cheerful. MHO. I always wondered why Bisu, Stork, and many other protoss don't use a unit composition of archons and zealots early in the game, although Jangbi recently was successful with that unit composition against Hoejja. Movie still falters under pressure despite playing over 130 games. Maybe he needs to use more goons to break the sim-city wall, I don't know. Movie had the lead against Jaedong in G2 (when Jaedong failed with the hydra) push, but Movie didn't know how to capitalize with the lead. If he just pushed with the reaver and the remaining units after the failed hydra push he would have won G2.
Archons and zealots are weak against large numbers of lurkers, and it really doesn't give you enough gas for templar. Goon/templar with some zealots is a pretty standard and effective army composition. Reavers and archons also gain effectiveness in the late game, where you can afford it.
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i really wonder how Stork will do
the man's been virtually non-existant thus far in PL
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EPT
