BaBy 2 > Hydra 0 This is fairly self explanitory. BaBy destroyed Jaedong last OSL at this stage, and a player of Hydra's class doesn't belong this far in a Starleague. Should be a quick 2-0
Stork 2 > sKyHigh 1 sKyHigh has been performing horribly lately, add to that his depressing 45% vs P, and Stork's 66% vs T, and this should almost be a lock as well. Stork's performance as of late hasn't been fantastic so i predict a 2-1.
Jaedong 2 > Movie 1 Jaedong looked really tired in his proleague games vs SKT the other day. However Movie is terrible(yet another player who doesn't belong in the Ro36). I can see Movie taking Dreamliner but expect Jaedong to clean up on Grand Line SE for a 2-1 result.
btw, i fail to see the purpose of the Lineup section...
btw, this was originaly Grobyc's format ^^
Lineup was to make sure i didn't spoil day7 results. It shows the actual matches happening without the person clicking the post getting spoiled themselves. Ps: you might want to spoiler your post
And Movie doesn't belong in the ro36? Two season ago he was an OSL finalist, granted he's been slumping and playing below everyones expectations, but he's still one of the best at pvz.
I don't think he deserved to be there in the first place. People got all excited when he cheesed jaedong on HBR but really, anyone can 5 gate goon rush. Movie's play ever since the ever OSL final(and during) has been so terrible, he really should be on the B team by now. Snow has well and truly taken over the protoss duties in proleague
Comeon Stork please destroy Skyhigh. Watching Skyhigh play is like smashing your face into a wall. It would be a travesty if Stork went out to this guy.
And Movie doesn't belong in the ro36? Two season ago he was an OSL finalist, granted he's been slumping and playing below everyones expectations, but he's still one of the best at pvz.
Recently, Hydra has been doing pretty well; he does deserve to be this far along the starleague. In fact, I think he deserves it more than Baby. Sure, Baby did well last time around, but then he got eliminated in a rather unillustrious fashion from both starleagues. Recently, Baby hasn't been doing so well (although he had a monstrous PL performance before his current mini-slump). I don't think Baby will 2-0; I see the score as 2-1 for either player.
On July 08 2010 23:19 purpose wrote: Stork is no longer the strong player he was. Its just 100% sure that he will fail and lose to Skyhigh, but its still going to hurt bad do watch it.
Stork should indeed beat Skyhigh, I don't know whether you've been living under a rock, but Stork is definitely performing at a level to 2-1 or 2-0 Skyhigh.
And Movie deserves to be this far along as well, and his PvZ is pretty good. But I do think Jaedong will win 2-0 or 2-1 simply because Movie has never been particularly good against him (he's had some memorable wins, most notably the goon timing attack on HBR); the overall record between the two reflects that Jaedong can still easily dominate him. I think Movie is just a dumb (in terms of decision making) player, which wasn't a factor in him beating Shine (certainly not a brighter bulb) or Zero (who just turtles almost all the time, leaving him vulnerable to timing attacks like Movie does, and always chokes in the Round of 8; somehow he lost to a horribly slumping Effort last season and helped him enter a revival in which he beat Flash).
On July 08 2010 23:19 purpose wrote: Stork is no longer the strong player he was. Its just 100% sure that he will fail and lose to Skyhigh, but its still going to hurt bad do watch it.
rofl. you don't have a clue at all. Stork will never forget how to PvT a noob. and Skyhigh is a noob at TvP. So. Safe bet.
U call movie a terrible player, yet you think he takes a game from jaedong.. i lol`d abit! even tho jaedong made some mistakes last 2-3 games, he is still best Z, or best overall player imo!
Jaedong lost to bisu after he had a HUGE lead (bisu was on one gas...) and then lost to S2...not going to go and say jaedong is going to 2-0 movie. Especially with a map like dreamliner on the cards. Jaedong will pull through in a BO3 but i can see jaedong losing a game just because he's looking frazzled
Stork will eat this 1 trick pony alive. Skyhigh should feel honored he is giving Stork a free pass to Ro16 and is given a chance to be destroyed by the true silver king.
I am rooting for Baby and Jaedong. 1) I don't want some no lone Hydra in ro16, and 2) Its fucking Jaedong.
Just because they cheese doesn't make them a bad player, if they win consistently they are a good player, and I agree Movie isn't great, but have you seen his qualifying group for the Ro36?Baby is a clear favorite despite his recent losses. And I was thinking skyhigh will take it but after his Games versus Killer Im fairly convinced his only good mu is tvt.
Good night. I hope there will be some good games. Seems like Baby, Stork and Jaedong will qualify. But I am definitely looking forward to see what movie prepared against Jaedong. His PvZ used to be quite good and his games against Jaedong were quite exciting in the past.
Skyhigh should be run over by Stork. The guy can only TvT.
stork should have no probs with skyhigh. i dont care about baby vs hydra, but im really pumped up for movie vs jd. sounds like a great series, in particular after jd´s zvp winning streak was recently ended.
On July 09 2010 02:36 HnR)hT wrote: Movie is the best PvZer in the world, including Bisu in peak form. Jaedong is in big trouble
56 games that don't break 60% winrate with no real notable wins except against jaedong(with a pretty bad losing record) doesn't make you a great PvZer. Unless you were trolling of course.
On July 09 2010 02:36 HnR)hT wrote: Movie is the best PvZer in the world, including Bisu in peak form. Jaedong is in big trouble
56 games that don't break 60% winrate with no real notable wins except against jaedong(with a pretty bad losing record) doesn't make you a great PvZer. Unless you were trolling of course.
The phase where people thought he was a good pvz player lasted like 2 month or so and in that time he beat just maybe 2 decent zergs(zero was one in the semi-OSL finals). After that he fell back in mediocracy. Sometimes he can play well but usually he is just another random protoss. Anyway these days Protoss lose to Zergs all the time. I hope both Bisu and Stork come back to old glory and we have the fantastic four back in play(JD, Flash, Bisu, Stork). Recent Starleagues have become too boring without real competition.
Stork's PvT is, to put it bluntly, really good. Skyhigh's vP is not on the level to beat Stork.
Jaedong has a sparkling record ZvP record and has only suffered defeats from the two protosses Bisu and Stork in the last few months. He'll continue that trend most likely.
Don't call Movie terrible. He's a 50% player, up until the last few months was CJ's lead Protoss, and he still plays regularly. He's made a Starleague final before, even if he had a lucky run in his best MU.
And PvZ is far and away his best matchup. No, he's not an S-Class player, but he's repeatedly shown he can take down good Zergs when he has to. Yes, Jaedong is a (heavy) favorite. But I'd still bet on Movie to take at least a game, and if he wins it will less of an upset than either Hydra or sKyHigh winning would be.
I hope to God people actually predicting movie beating Jaedong are joking or fanboys. This is the guy who just lost just his second ZvP in over a year and shattered every ZvP (and vP) record.
Movie isn't bad, so anyone who says so shouldn't really. But Jaedong is just amazing, and its very unlikely that Movie is going to win him in a best of 3.
On July 09 2010 02:36 HnR)hT wrote: Movie is the best PvZer in the world, including Bisu in peak form. Jaedong is in big trouble
Beating Shine six months ago makes you the best PvZer in the world, apparently... And somehow better than Bisu ever was at it...
Anyway, absurd statements aside, pleasepleaseplease let BaBy win.
On the way to his OSL final, Movie beat ZerO and Shine. ZerO is consistently good at ZvP (as much as he's consistent at anything), and Shine was ripping up Protoss face (see: Stork, Bisu) six months ago. So yeah.
On July 09 2010 02:36 HnR)hT wrote: Movie is the best PvZer in the world, including Bisu in peak form. Jaedong is in big trouble
Beating Shine six months ago makes you the best PvZer in the world, apparently... And somehow better than Bisu ever was at it...
Anyway, absurd statements aside, pleasepleaseplease let BaBy win.
On the way to his OSL final, Movie beat ZerO and Shine. ZerO is consistently good at ZvP (as much as he's consistent at anything), and Shine was ripping up Protoss face (see: Stork, Bisu) six months ago. So yeah.
movie had insanely good PvZ during the EVER 2009 OSL (at least compared to all other protosses). since then he hasn't really been too hot in any MU though.
It's funny, because I've been seeing protosses suddenly winning PvZs far more often than in the last three years. Hopefully Movie does something unusual. Or goes for that four reaver push he used to do.
well mOvie can put up a good fight i think, especially since his p v z is really good. ._. more like mOvie will bring something to the table instead of JD being tired
On July 09 2010 10:46 InTheFade wrote: It's funny, because I've been seeing protosses suddenly winning PvZs far more often than in the last three years. Hopefully Movie does something unusual. Or goes for that four reaver push he used to do.
Recently theres been a slight bit of hope for Protoss in PvZ but for the past couple months Zergs have been destroying Protosses.
Stork has not been as good as he used to for a while now it seems. Did he not fail in both MSL and OSL last round? If he fails today he is out of both MSL and OSL again and then its not just a slump. Unless he can pull a Bisu (if Bisu actually is back that is) I think Stork more and more will fall behind and become a former good player like Saviour and the rest.
Such a shame because Stork has always been my favourite player.
So please please Stork, dont fail vs a shitty Terran.
But I guess as long as Skyhigh remembers to build voulters and mines that is usually enough.
On July 09 2010 15:24 purpose wrote: Stork has not been as good as he used to for a while now it seems. Did he not fail in both MSL and OSL last round? If he fails today he is out of both MSL and OSL again and then its not just a slump. Unless he can pull a Bisu (if Bisu actually is back that is) I think Stork more and more will fall behind and become a former good player like Saviour and the rest.
Such a shame because Stork has always been my favourite player.
So please please Stork, dont fail vs a shitty Terran.
But I guess as long as Skyhigh remembers to build voulters and mines that is usually enough.
I too would like to see Stork play better, he's 22-18 in his last 40 games and 25-15 in the 40 before that, which isn't that super bad, but he has been dropping individual leagues a lot. Still Stork PvT is damn good and he should win, skyhigh can only play TvT anyways.
JD vs Movie could be cool. Movie is inconsistent with shows of strategic brilliance and then a lot of clumsiness and subpar mechanics... so maybe he'll make it interesting? But it's JD so unless he's violently ill or something movie doesn't really have a chance, and even then...
And stork and baby shouldn't have any trouble 2-0.
On July 09 2010 15:24 purpose wrote: Stork has not been as good as he used to for a while now it seems. Did he not fail in both MSL and OSL last round? If he fails today he is out of both MSL and OSL again and then its not just a slump. Unless he can pull a Bisu (if Bisu actually is back that is) I think Stork more and more will fall behind and become a former good player like Saviour and the rest.
Such a shame because Stork has always been my favourite player.
So please please Stork, dont fail vs a shitty Terran.
But I guess as long as Skyhigh remembers to build voulters and mines that is usually enough.
I too would like to see Stork play better, he's 22-18 in his last 40 games and 25-15 in the 40 before that, which isn't that super bad, but he has been dropping individual leagues a lot. Still Stork PvT is damn good and he should win, skyhigh can only play TvT anyways.
Yea I know, Stor should just role Skyhigh and thats why I think we will see something horrible like stork losing all goons to like 2 mines or terran just doing a tank drop or 2 fac push that Stork will fail defending against.
But I until the end I will cheer for Stork and hope he can get back to shape. Starcraft is boring when its only zerg and terran who fight for the titles.
Can believe so many people underestimate Movie. Here is what I tell you all.
Movie has S-class PvZ!!
He might be mediocre in PvP, he might be bad in PvT, but his PvZ is pure art. He was the only protoss dominating PvZ, when all others fell apart to new trend of mutas sniping ht's. His record vs Jaedong is not out of nowhere. He has a good chance to take out Jaedong.
I'm glad this Bo3 is happening, and sad at the same time that it happens so early in star league. Because both of them deserve to advance far in OSL.
I say JD dominates Movie today. His match against Bisu was completely different from the style PvZ he was playing before hand. Given, it was standard 3 spire 5 hydra, but if you look at the PvZ's before the Bisu game, JD was going more crackling and defiler over hydra heavy. So I think JD just didn't want to play his OSL builds right before his OSL match against Movie. So I really think your going to see him come out and dominate Movie like he did Tyson.
That said I REALLY want Baby to rape tonight. I love watching him play :D not a terran fan but I just love Baby's style of play. I wanna see his insane multitasking in action at its best XD
On July 09 2010 16:39 Yxes2211 wrote: So I think JD just didn't want to play his OSL builds right before his OSL match against Movie. So I really think your going to see him come out and dominate Movie like he did Tyson.
I highly doubt it Jaedong brought anything less than his A-game against Bisu. Team league is pretty important in a player's career, especially for a game that could determine whether or not you go to the playoffs, and one that went down to the wire.
On July 09 2010 16:39 Yxes2211 wrote: I say JD dominates Movie today. His match against Bisu was completely different from the style PvZ he was playing before hand. Given, it was standard 3 spire 5 hydra, but if you look at the PvZ's before the Bisu game, JD was going more crackling and defiler over hydra heavy. So I think JD just didn't want to play his OSL builds right before his OSL match against Movie. So I really think your going to see him come out and dominate Movie like he did Tyson.
That said I REALLY want Baby to rape tonight. I love watching him play :D not a terran fan but I just love Baby's style of play. I wanna see his insane multitasking in action at its best XD
Playoffs are far more important than starleagues. Especially when you're playing against a player that isn't likely to beat you(Movie) in the OSL, but a player who can in PL. Perhaps the change of style is because it matches Bisu's game/actions?
On July 09 2010 16:39 Yxes2211 wrote: I say JD dominates Movie today. His match against Bisu was completely different from the style PvZ he was playing before hand. Given, it was standard 3 spire 5 hydra, but if you look at the PvZ's before the Bisu game, JD was going more crackling and defiler over hydra heavy. So I think JD just didn't want to play his OSL builds right before his OSL match against Movie. So I really think your going to see him come out and dominate Movie like he did Tyson.
That said I REALLY want Baby to rape tonight. I love watching him play :D not a terran fan but I just love Baby's style of play. I wanna see his insane multitasking in action at its best XD
Playoffs are far more important than starleagues. Especially when you're playing against a player that isn't likely to beat you(Movie) in the OSL, but a player who can in PL. Perhaps the change of style is because it matches Bisu's game/actions?
Even if Oz went undefeated it wasn't guaranteed that they would make the Playoffs. Add to it that JD got eliminated early last season, and I think it's safe to say the OSL was more important. JD had carried Oz on his back all season and I think he deserved to focus on his individual games.
To point out, I'm not downplaying Bisu's play, it was excellent, but JD's PvZ that game didn't match up to his more recent PvZ's. I'm not sure, but if I remember right, when they interviewed JD during the OSL qualifiers, he said he wouldn't take any OSL opponent lightly this season because he wanted to perform well, unlike last season. That's the only reason I thought he might hide his play against Bisu.
On July 09 2010 16:39 Yxes2211 wrote: I say JD dominates Movie today. His match against Bisu was completely different from the style PvZ he was playing before hand. Given, it was standard 3 spire 5 hydra, but if you look at the PvZ's before the Bisu game, JD was going more crackling and defiler over hydra heavy. So I think JD just didn't want to play his OSL builds right before his OSL match against Movie. So I really think your going to see him come out and dominate Movie like he did Tyson.
That said I REALLY want Baby to rape tonight. I love watching him play :D not a terran fan but I just love Baby's style of play. I wanna see his insane multitasking in action at its best XD
Bisu's build pretty much forced Jaedong to go mass hydra. Lurker/ling/defiler doesn't do so well against a mass air build like sair/reaver.
And besides, making the playoffs is very important for Jaedong and Oz, and I wouldn't expect him to have prepared anything less than his best builds for that match.
On July 09 2010 16:39 Yxes2211 wrote: I say JD dominates Movie today. His match against Bisu was completely different from the style PvZ he was playing before hand. Given, it was standard 3 spire 5 hydra, but if you look at the PvZ's before the Bisu game, JD was going more crackling and defiler over hydra heavy. So I think JD just didn't want to play his OSL builds right before his OSL match against Movie. So I really think your going to see him come out and dominate Movie like he did Tyson.
That said I REALLY want Baby to rape tonight. I love watching him play :D not a terran fan but I just love Baby's style of play. I wanna see his insane multitasking in action at its best XD
Playoffs are far more important than starleagues. Especially when you're playing against a player that isn't likely to beat you(Movie) in the OSL, but a player who can in PL. Perhaps the change of style is because it matches Bisu's game/actions?
Even if Oz went undefeated it wasn't guaranteed that they would make the Playoffs. Add to it that JD got eliminated early last season, and I think it's safe to say the OSL was more important.
Korea=/=America. culture is different and people arn't as selfish, at least not publicly. Team always>>>individual, so even if OSL mattered more to JD i'm pretty sure the coaches wouldnt sign off on JD partially throwing a match and the teams only shot at a playoffs just to preserve secrecy in a Ro36 vs an opponent he's probably going to dominate. For those of you propping up movie, note that he's 1-5 in his last 6 games vs JD with the only win being that goon all-in timing attack.
Last time i seen movie play PvZ he lost too Great (long time i know but im not much of a movie fan boy, i dont like his face.) and his play wasnt very great either. And could someone tell me who has made it into the next round so far? i only caught the last set with bisu and all that. missed the ones before that. Someone help? Also waiting for baby to rape and hoping PRAYING stork doesnt lose to some dumb shit
On July 09 2010 15:55 p4NDemik wrote: I'm really excited for Jaedong vs Movie. Most interest I've had in a BW match since the last OSL finals.
Yeah I'm not sure I've really looked forward to a match since those finals. Watched here in there, but not really all that interested.
I dont get it. None of these matches look like they're going to hold any real promise. I mean, Baby vs Hydra *might* be close because Hydra has that unknown factor about him. But Stork vs Skyhigh will either be Stork destroying Skyhigh or a terrible game because Stork and Skyhigh are both playing bad. Jaedong should destroy movie, movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
On July 09 2010 15:55 p4NDemik wrote: I'm really excited for Jaedong vs Movie. Most interest I've had in a BW match since the last OSL finals.
Yeah I'm not sure I've really looked forward to a match since those finals. Watched here in there, but not really all that interested.
I dont get it. None of these matches look like they're going to hold any real promise. I mean, Baby vs Hydra *might* be close because Hydra has that unknown factor about him. But Stork vs Skyhigh will either be Stork destroying Skyhigh or a terrible game because Stork and Skyhigh are both playing bad. Jaedong should destroy movie, movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
I love to watch how s-class players dominates lower class players. If they lose its even more interesting
I love watching S-class players get their win stolen from a lower skill player. You can feel the frustration of the player just by watching their facial movements. It's like they know they are better (skill-wise) but they lost so they can't really say anything. And the lower skill player is like FUCK YEA I just took down JD.
I love watching former S-class players playing players that are kinda mediocre and you dont know what will happen but you root for your former S class player like theres no tomorrow then they lose but you cant get it through your skull that they arnt invincible anymore and you get super mad.
On July 09 2010 18:30 PhailSoBaller wrote: I love watching former S-class players playing players that are kinda mediocre and you dont know what will happen but you root for your former S class player like theres no tomorrow then they lose but you cant get it through your skull that they arnt invincible anymore and you get super mad.
yeah
I love that to, unless its a player you really want to win of course ;-) And thats both whats good and bad about starcraft. There are so many ways for a lesser skilled player to win vs a S class. they play so much that nobody can win every singel game all the time.
In contrast though, seeing a idiot beat someone like Jaedong just because he got lucky with positions or bo poker, or why not a chees or just some random bullshit that can happen in starcraft, that can suck so bad :-)
On July 09 2010 15:55 p4NDemik wrote: I'm really excited for Jaedong vs Movie. Most interest I've had in a BW match since the last OSL finals.
Yeah I'm not sure I've really looked forward to a match since those finals. Watched here in there, but not really all that interested.
I dont get it. None of these matches look like they're going to hold any real promise. I mean, Baby vs Hydra *might* be close because Hydra has that unknown factor about him. But Stork vs Skyhigh will either be Stork destroying Skyhigh or a terrible game because Stork and Skyhigh are both playing bad. Jaedong should destroy movie, movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
lol wtf? PvZ is movie's ONLY decent MU, hes almost 60% in it too, better than anyone not named Bisu
On July 09 2010 18:33 purpose wrote: I love that to, unless its a player you really want to win of course ;-) And thats both whats good and bad about starcraft. There are so many ways for a lesser skilled player to win vs a S class. they play so much that nobody can win every singel game all the time.
In contrast though, seeing a idiot beat someone like Jaedong just because he got lucky with positions or bo poker, or why not a chees or just some random bullshit that can happen in starcraft, that can suck so bad :-)
I don't really have a favorite player besides Boxer I guess because I played this game when Boxer was destroying the scene with his insane never before seen micro. Nowadays I just enjoy the matches for what it is and will root for the underdog just to watch JD/Flash's frustration when they are reminded they can still lose.
Flash has an aura of confidence when he plays and it's awesome but I would love nothing more than somebody like s2 to take him down just to keep him in check. Same goes for JD.
On July 09 2010 15:55 p4NDemik wrote: I'm really excited for Jaedong vs Movie. Most interest I've had in a BW match since the last OSL finals.
Yeah I'm not sure I've really looked forward to a match since those finals. Watched here in there, but not really all that interested.
I dont get it. None of these matches look like they're going to hold any real promise. I mean, Baby vs Hydra *might* be close because Hydra has that unknown factor about him. But Stork vs Skyhigh will either be Stork destroying Skyhigh or a terrible game because Stork and Skyhigh are both playing bad. Jaedong should destroy movie, movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
lol wtf? PvZ is movie's ONLY decent MU, hes almost 60% in it too, better than anyone not named Bisu
Statistics mean nothing. Movie isn't that good at PvZ lol Just watch some of those wins - they're quite sad tbh. He often looks really confused with speed zealots wandering back and forth.
Wow, that is such brilliant play by Hydra. Those early lings completely fucked Baby's 4 rax. It kept his marine count down low enough that he couldn't move and nullify the mutalisk harass. Essentially he both took map control and put baby in a position where he needed to turret up (putting him further behind) or else he would (did) get picked apart
On July 09 2010 18:46 Plexa wrote: Statistics mean nothing. Movie isn't that good at PvZ lol Just watch some of those wins - they're quite sad tbh. He often looks really confused with speed zealots wandering back and forth.
Awesome zealots vs lings micro though =p
And this from me, a Movie anti-fan.
As for that game, Baby actually did pretty well, and Hydra nubbed out a bit. His muta micro wasn't special and in the first all-ling attack the SCV wall completely prevented most of his lings from doing anything - Hydra didn't retarget the blocking SCVs.
He should've built a bunker though, as someone said. He even saw a huge number of lings =/
The skill was in the timing of the attack and completely denying scouting. He waited til just after the scan then massed lings. If Baby has even a slight idea of what might be coming he makes a bunker and defends easily.
On July 09 2010 15:55 p4NDemik wrote: I'm really excited for Jaedong vs Movie. Most interest I've had in a BW match since the last OSL finals.
Yeah I'm not sure I've really looked forward to a match since those finals. Watched here in there, but not really all that interested.
I dont get it. None of these matches look like they're going to hold any real promise. I mean, Baby vs Hydra *might* be close because Hydra has that unknown factor about him. But Stork vs Skyhigh will either be Stork destroying Skyhigh or a terrible game because Stork and Skyhigh are both playing bad. Jaedong should destroy movie, movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
lol wtf? PvZ is movie's ONLY decent MU, hes almost 60% in it too, better than anyone not named Bisu
Statistics mean nothing. Movie isn't that good at PvZ lol Just watch some of those wins - they're quite sad tbh. He often looks really confused with speed zealots wandering back and forth.
better than what he looks like PvP or PvT lol. even if he looks lost he at least wins in PvZ, unlike his other MU's
hopefully baby can come back 2-1, im really tired of crappy zergs making it far into SL's =.=;;
My headphones had a loose connection during the break between G1 and G2, so they made weird sounds instead of playing the sound normal. I haven't noticed until G2 started because I thought it was boes playing weird music again.
On July 09 2010 15:55 p4NDemik wrote: I'm really excited for Jaedong vs Movie. Most interest I've had in a BW match since the last OSL finals.
Yeah I'm not sure I've really looked forward to a match since those finals. Watched here in there, but not really all that interested.
I dont get it. None of these matches look like they're going to hold any real promise. I mean, Baby vs Hydra *might* be close because Hydra has that unknown factor about him. But Stork vs Skyhigh will either be Stork destroying Skyhigh or a terrible game because Stork and Skyhigh are both playing bad. Jaedong should destroy movie, movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
lol wtf? PvZ is movie's ONLY decent MU, hes almost 60% in it too, better than anyone not named Bisu
Statistics mean nothing. Movie isn't that good at PvZ lol Just watch some of those wins - they're quite sad tbh. He often looks really confused with speed zealots wandering back and forth.
Movie is one of the few decent PvZ players, what are u talking about? And stats mean nothing? are u serious? I think u're exaggerating
On July 09 2010 15:55 p4NDemik wrote: I'm really excited for Jaedong vs Movie. Most interest I've had in a BW match since the last OSL finals.
Yeah I'm not sure I've really looked forward to a match since those finals. Watched here in there, but not really all that interested.
I dont get it. None of these matches look like they're going to hold any real promise. I mean, Baby vs Hydra *might* be close because Hydra has that unknown factor about him. But Stork vs Skyhigh will either be Stork destroying Skyhigh or a terrible game because Stork and Skyhigh are both playing bad. Jaedong should destroy movie, movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
lol wtf? PvZ is movie's ONLY decent MU, hes almost 60% in it too, better than anyone not named Bisu
Statistics mean nothing. Movie isn't that good at PvZ lol Just watch some of those wins - they're quite sad tbh. He often looks really confused with speed zealots wandering back and forth.
Stats mean nothing? Don't be ridiculous. If anything, we should say stats mean more than gameplay content, although they should be weighed together. Being "good" at a matchup by defintion means winning and nothing else.
I thought Hydra was going to leave the tournament in the previous round, and look how far he's reaching. Not that those games today are anything special to be proud of.
Wow, wtf. 8 Racks PLUS Overlord kill vs. 12-Hatch. HOW can this not be a win??? Threw down Bunker too early and horrible Micro I guess, but still, this cannot happen
He wanted to do management he thought his all in lings would work. 2nd game he wanted to do management as well but he just blocked that shit ezpz. Hydra confirmed Effort is better.
I like whenever a relatively unknown or unpopular Zerg wins early they label them as Kwanro or a new Kwanro. When a player plays as bad as Baby did there, whether its Jaedong or Kwanro himself, they have a high chance of winning early and doing something like that to finish it.
On July 09 2010 19:01 Tremor wrote: why would baby try bunker rush if he was more than capable of beating hydra straight up?
Because it's Dreamliner.
1-8 in TvZ now.
It SHOULD be 2-7 now. You CANNOT blame this loss on the map.
Someone else mentioned that the only victory for a terran against zerg on this map so far was Leta using the same strategy Baby just tried. Hydra got the win because his drones managed to sneak in between the SCVs and attack Baby's marines. It was the influence of the lucky socks.
On July 09 2010 19:03 Nesto wrote: am I the only one who thinks that the OSL intro with "winged Effort" sucks?
No, it does suck. It's definitely one of the worst intros ever.
If it was Flash instead of Effort I think you'd reconsider that statement.
No it'd be just as bad since Flash instead of having the build of a twig probably has a gut from playing Starcraft all day and spending like $1000 a month on food.
On July 09 2010 19:01 Tremor wrote: why would baby try bunker rush if he was more than capable of beating hydra straight up?
Because it's Dreamliner.
1-8 in TvZ now.
It SHOULD be 2-7 now. You CANNOT blame this loss on the map.
Someone else mentioned that the only victory for a terran against zerg on this map so far was Leta using the same strategy Baby just tried. Hydra got the win because his drones managed to sneak in between the SCVs and attack Baby's marines. It was the influence of the lucky socks.
He got 8-Racks vs. 12-Hatch, but he also had a free Overlord kill. There is no excuse or blame on luck, this was just bad micro. He started the Bunker too early so the drones just destroyed it before Marines and SCVs arrived and when it got destroyed he didnt even cancel it.
On July 09 2010 19:03 Nesto wrote: am I the only one who thinks that the OSL intro with "winged Effort" sucks?
No, it does suck. It's definitely one of the worst intros ever.
If it was Flash instead of Effort I think you'd reconsider that statement.
No it'd be just as bad since Flash instead of having the build of a twig probably has a gut from playing Starcraft all day and spending like $1000 a month on food.
actually, i believe flash has been getting a lot of exercise from table tennis... lol the 1 gran a month on food expenses is right on the money though
On July 09 2010 19:01 Tremor wrote: why would baby try bunker rush if he was more than capable of beating hydra straight up?
Because it's Dreamliner.
1-8 in TvZ now.
It SHOULD be 2-7 now. You CANNOT blame this loss on the map.
Someone else mentioned that the only victory for a terran against zerg on this map so far was Leta using the same strategy Baby just tried. Hydra got the win because his drones managed to sneak in between the SCVs and attack Baby's marines. It was the influence of the lucky socks.
On July 09 2010 19:03 Nesto wrote: am I the only one who thinks that the OSL intro with "winged Effort" sucks?
No, it does suck. It's definitely one of the worst intros ever.
If it was Flash instead of Effort I think you'd reconsider that statement.
But he would be wrong... This intro is terrible. hope they come up with something better soon... I mean, just compare : . Edit : Stork, crush this noob !
sorry for question but what are the songs of the 2 bands playing when commercials are over? i know both bands but their names just dont wanna pop up in my brain omfg
On July 09 2010 19:01 Tremor wrote: why would baby try bunker rush if he was more than capable of beating hydra straight up?
Because it's Dreamliner.
1-8 in TvZ now.
It SHOULD be 2-7 now. You CANNOT blame this loss on the map.
Someone else mentioned that the only victory for a terran against zerg on this map so far was Leta using the same strategy Baby just tried. Hydra got the win because his drones managed to sneak in between the SCVs and attack Baby's marines. It was the influence of the lucky socks.
He got 8-Racks vs. 12-Hatch, but he also had a free Overlord kill. There is no excuse or blame on luck, this was just bad micro. He started the Bunker too early so the drones just destroyed it before Marines and SCVs arrived and when it got destroyed he didnt even cancel it.
The overlord kill cost him five marines, didn't it? Nobody is suggesting that Baby played well today. In fact he hasn't played to the best of his ability since the day he lost to Jaedong, which is probably the day he lost his socks. What I'm saying is that Hydra wouldn't have won that exchange if his drones hadn't gotten in between the SCVs at that moment, and he was lucky they did. I'm sure Hydra wanted them to go in there and everything but without that opening the sunken colony would have gone down.
On July 09 2010 19:17 alypse wrote: Stork riding a 747! He'll win this OSL.
But that's not a 787. Not at all.
747 is bigger, more expensive, more prestigious.
I wouldn't say that it is more prestigious to fly on a bigger, older aircraft. Especially considering that the 787 isn't flying commercially yet. He would be riding the only 787 in the sky.
On July 09 2010 19:17 alypse wrote: Stork riding a 747! He'll win this OSL.
But that's not a 787. Not at all.
747 is bigger, more expensive, more prestigious.
I wouldn't say that it is more prestigious to fly on a bigger, older aircraft. Especially considering that the 787 isn't flying commercially yet. He would be riding the only 787 in the sky.
Those are not the reasons for it to be more "prestigious". You misunderstood the concept here.
On July 09 2010 19:26 arew wrote: Stork is playing good, isn't he?^^ Stork fighting!
like always Arew, like always!
his 4th is on and i smell like there is no carrier transition on his mind - he will rape all the shit out of skyhigh with arbs and silly macro with goons and storms ^.-
On July 09 2010 19:17 alypse wrote: Stork riding a 747! He'll win this OSL.
But that's not a 787. Not at all.
747 is bigger, more expensive, more prestigious.
I wouldn't say that it is more prestigious to fly on a bigger, older aircraft. Especially considering that the 787 isn't flying commercially yet. He would be riding the only 787 in the sky.
Those are not the reasons for it to be more "prestigious". You misunderstood the concept here.
I can't think of any reason why it would be more prestigious.
well played by stork, feelt like he got that under control all game. Very nice recall and nice brake even though he could have moved in with the zeals earlier and losing the dropship was a miss.
Come on keep this up for 2-0 now, dont fall to any chees play!
On July 09 2010 19:17 alypse wrote: Stork riding a 747! He'll win this OSL.
But that's not a 787. Not at all.
747 is bigger, more expensive, more prestigious.
I wouldn't say that it is more prestigious to fly on a bigger, older aircraft. Especially considering that the 787 isn't flying commercially yet. He would be riding the only 787 in the sky.
Those are not the reasons for it to be more "prestigious". You misunderstood the concept here.
I can't think of any reason why it would be more prestigious.
Stork wins. Skyhigh looks non-plussed.
Well, me on the other hand can point out a lot of reasons, mainly 'cause I'm interested in aircrafts.
Looking very bad for Stork. Lost so many probes....very poor judgement to move out with first 3 goons as it's been the source of all his trouble up to this point
On July 09 2010 19:48 purpose wrote: I dont know enough thb, but it looks like stork is in trouble this game. Has Skyhigh expanded or is he all in on one base?
He has had his nat up since forever. He should be way ahead economically right now
What I don't understand is that on SkyHigh FPView before the first carriers striked we saw he had scouted the tech, but he didn't build any Goliaths until much too late ? WTF ?
On July 09 2010 19:56 Iplaythings wrote: Why do the pros KEEP PLACING THEIR TANKS ON MINES MAKING THEM O SO VULNERABLE TO MINEDRAGS!!! ITS MAKING ME SICK
Pros aren't payed to think, they just go through whatever they've done 500 times in the practice room.
I don't know what other protosses are doing wrong necessarily, but stork's carriers just feel different. He only had four here, for example, and yet they completely turned the game around... maybe he fences with ground units better than other protosses, maybe it's his mine drags and years of experience raping vs T, maybe it is skyhigh's failure... but whatever it is, other protosses could stand to learn from stork.
On July 09 2010 19:59 integral wrote: I don't know what other protosses are doing wrong necessarily, but stork's carriers just feel different. He only had four here, for example, and yet they completely turned the game around... maybe he fences with ground units better than other protosses, maybe it's his mine drags and years of experience raping vs T, maybe it is skyhigh's failure... but whatever it is, other protosses could stand to learn from stork.
Wow Stork that was such a nice comeback tbh. Such nice play with the carriers and goons.
That just made my weekend tbh.
But how the fuck did that happend? I missed the part after Stork had 2 starports and carrier tech. What happend? How could he manage to get those carriers out in time when he was behind in eco? Anyone?
I just can't believe what just happened! Such a big advantage from skyhigh and still losing the game. I feel sorry for him, but I am glad Stork did win the match
On July 09 2010 19:56 Nouar wrote: What I don't understand is that on SkyHigh FPView before the first carriers striked we saw he had scouted the tech, but he didn't build any Goliaths until much too late ? WTF ?
Don't need to build goaliths just yet. 2 carriers don't do much (unless you're Stork, then you do double damage to any Terran unit). It's better to pump out vultures/tanks and overwhelm the Protoss army in sheer number.
If you saw the unit counter it was something like 106 to 130 in Skyhigh's favour.
On July 09 2010 19:59 integral wrote: I don't know what other protosses are doing wrong necessarily, but stork's carriers just feel different. He only had four here, for example, and yet they completely turned the game around... maybe he fences with ground units better than other protosses, maybe it's his mine drags and years of experience raping vs T, maybe it is skyhigh's failure... but whatever it is, other protosses could stand to learn from stork.
He didn't start ignoring his ground army. You need a ground army to support the carriers, otherwise you just end up fighting a million goliaths for half an hour.
I haven't watched a BW match in these leagues so far, with PvT mass carriers losing the game. Does it happen at all? The terran usually masses goliaths, and.. that's not enough.
On July 09 2010 19:59 integral wrote: I don't know what other protosses are doing wrong necessarily, but stork's carriers just feel different. He only had four here, for example, and yet they completely turned the game around... maybe he fences with ground units better than other protosses, maybe it's his mine drags and years of experience raping vs T, maybe it is skyhigh's failure... but whatever it is, other protosses could stand to learn from stork.
On July 09 2010 20:01 figq wrote: I haven't watched a BW match in these leagues so far, with PvT mass carriers losing the game. Does it happen at all? The terran usually masses goliaths, and.. that's not enough.
Flash vs Kal like a billion times. Flash vs mass carriers in general ends pretty messy.
On July 09 2010 19:59 integral wrote: I don't know what other protosses are doing wrong necessarily, but stork's carriers just feel different. He only had four here, for example, and yet they completely turned the game around... maybe he fences with ground units better than other protosses, maybe it's his mine drags and years of experience raping vs T, maybe it is skyhigh's failure... but whatever it is, other protosses could stand to learn from stork.
You think too much.
looks like someone is upset that skyhigh got eliminated :/
On July 09 2010 19:59 integral wrote: I don't know what other protosses are doing wrong necessarily, but stork's carriers just feel different. He only had four here, for example, and yet they completely turned the game around... maybe he fences with ground units better than other protosses, maybe it's his mine drags and years of experience raping vs T, maybe it is skyhigh's failure... but whatever it is, other protosses could stand to learn from stork.
Mid-late game when the first car's came out stork cleaned up like a 3rd of sky's army killing a nice few unsupported tanks. I think sky high had to replace them taking away from gol pruduction.
Sky's response to storks build in this game was hinky imo.
On July 09 2010 20:01 figq wrote: I haven't watched a BW match in these leagues so far, with PvT mass carriers losing the game. Does it happen at all? The terran usually masses goliaths, and.. that's not enough.
There was a day a week or so ago where almost every game had carriers in it so it happened at least once then. I forget who the players were though.
On July 09 2010 20:01 figq wrote: I haven't watched a BW match in these leagues so far, with PvT mass carriers losing the game. Does it happen at all? The terran usually masses goliaths, and.. that's not enough.
It's happened so consistently over the last 2 years that carriers became obsolete for a long time and Arbitors were the only late-game choice. What usually happens is that Terran scans the carriers and makes a big push on Protoss expansions as his ground-army will be weaker for a while. Skyhigh tried to same, but somehow lost his entire push to a much smaller protoss ground army thanks to poor position and mines
On July 09 2010 20:01 figq wrote: I haven't watched a BW match in these leagues so far, with PvT mass carriers losing the game. Does it happen at all? The terran usually masses goliaths, and.. that's not enough.
On July 09 2010 20:01 figq wrote: I haven't watched a BW match in these leagues so far, with PvT mass carriers losing the game. Does it happen at all? The terran usually masses goliaths, and.. that's not enough.
it has happened several times lately. I think.. Flash vs Best a few weeks ago, for example.
Basically, what happens is that T masses gols, keeps the base count down for P and just kills interceptors until P runs out of minerals.
Edit: Yeah, or T pushes before carriers reach critical mass, while the P ground army is still weak.
On July 09 2010 20:01 figq wrote: I haven't watched a BW match in these leagues so far, with PvT mass carriers losing the game. Does it happen at all? The terran usually masses goliaths, and.. that's not enough.
On July 09 2010 20:01 figq wrote: I haven't watched a BW match in these leagues so far, with PvT mass carriers losing the game. Does it happen at all? The terran usually masses goliaths, and.. that's not enough.
Flash vs Kal like a billion times. Flash vs mass carriers in general ends pretty messy.
Before this game I think I saw at least 3 games were protoss went carriers and failed. Protoss that even were like 5 vs 3 bases and still just got crushed vs Terran.
On July 09 2010 20:04 boesthius wrote: SONG BYUNG GOOOOOO. I'm so excited, my dinotoss looked in top form today - both healthwise and gameplay wise. I'm excited for my little byungooo~
Well, shortly before mass carriers started winning vsT, P's were still losing all the time, with the Terrans lead by FLash and mass goliaths. Since like.. Snow vs Really or something, did P's start using the ground army to support the carriers and winning.
On July 09 2010 20:01 figq wrote: I haven't watched a BW match in these leagues so far, with PvT mass carriers losing the game. Does it happen at all? The terran usually masses goliaths, and.. that's not enough.
IIRC, Hiya, Fantasy, and Leta stopped carrier builds on Dreamliner. The stats actually show that P has been doing poorly on this map.
On July 09 2010 20:01 figq wrote: I haven't watched a BW match in these leagues so far, with PvT mass carriers losing the game. Does it happen at all? The terran usually masses goliaths, and.. that's not enough.
Flash vs Kal like a billion times. Flash vs mass carriers in general ends pretty messy.
Thanks! Now I remember I've seen Flash win vs carriers. But that prolly depends on map usage too. If the terrain allows it, toss could keep flying away, poking back and forth.
Though, it feels like in this game, when it turned out the way it did, Stork really really had help from the positions they had on the map, and also the map. Cliffs made it easier to micro vs the gols in the middle. And the positions made it easy for his carriers to dive into terran main and then just fly out when terran units went in. It also was a long walk for terran to pull back his units when the carriers went beserk in his main, but the carriers could very easy get back to protect the goon army or his own base.
Would Stork have been as successfull if they would have been top bottom positions or on another map?
On July 09 2010 20:06 FireGuyX wrote: Why isn't boesthius stream working?
It's a recent ustream bug, that's affecting the West coast more than anything else(at least that I've noticed.) I can't even view my own stream, atm . I think I'm going to create a thread in the ustream forum tomorrow talking about it, because it's becoming ridiculous.
What makes you think it has something to do with the west coast?
On July 09 2010 20:11 purpose wrote: Though, it feels like in this game, when it turned out the way it did, Stork really really had help from the positions they had on the map, and also the map. Cliffs made it easier to micro vs the gols in the middle. And the positions made it easy for his carriers to dive into terran main and then just fly out when terran units went in. It also was a long walk for terran to pull back his units when the carriers went beserk in his main, but the carriers could very easy get back to protect the goon army or his own base.
Would Stork have been as successfull if they would have been top bottom positions or on another map?
Would Stork have bothered with carriers if it was a different map? You make him sound like some sort of scrub that can only win with carriers, but all progamers abuse map advantages. Stork is no slouch with arbiter or templar based armies either you know.
On July 09 2010 20:01 figq wrote: I haven't watched a BW match in these leagues so far, with PvT mass carriers losing the game. Does it happen at all? The terran usually masses goliaths, and.. that's not enough.
IIRC, Hiya, Fantasy, and Leta stopped carrier builds on Dreamliner. The stats actually show that P has been doing poorly on this map.
On July 09 2010 19:56 Nouar wrote: What I don't understand is that on SkyHigh FPView before the first carriers striked we saw he had scouted the tech, but he didn't build any Goliaths until much too late ? WTF ?
Don't need to build goaliths just yet. 2 carriers don't do much (unless you're Stork, then you do double damage to any Terran unit). It's better to pump out vultures/tanks and overwhelm the Protoss army in sheer number.
If you saw the unit counter it was something like 106 to 130 in Skyhigh's favour.
Getting your 12 sieged tanks and X vultures raped by those 2 then 4 carriers while the dragoons 20m away are looking at you getting demolished with a faint smile doesn't seem like a really good choice either :/ Maybe he should have pushed faster ? dunno... It just looked really bad.
On July 09 2010 20:11 purpose wrote: Though, it feels like in this game, when it turned out the way it did, Stork really really had help from the positions they had on the map, and also the map. Cliffs made it easier to micro vs the gols in the middle. And the positions made it easy for his carriers to dive into terran main and then just fly out when terran units went in. It also was a long walk for terran to pull back his units when the carriers went beserk in his main, but the carriers could very easy get back to protect the goon army or his own base.
Would Stork have been as successfull if they would have been top bottom positions or on another map?
Would Stork have bothered with carriers if it was a different map? You make him sound like some sort of scrub that can only win with carriers, but all progamers abuse map advantages. Stork is no slouch with arbiter or templar based armies either you know.
That was so not what I meant. I was saying that would Stork have been able to turn that game around if the positions would have been cross? I mean it would have been alot harder to get the carriers into skyhighs main and then go back if needed.
Stork is pro with carriers and all races and players are of course using the map to their advantage. I was only trying to figure out how much help Stork got in this game.
movie goes for the speedlot attack with an evo chamber blocking his zlots =.= well he gets the sunk and quite a few of the drones tho, so it wasnt all that bad
wow fail decision by move decides to attack with the archons rather than defend. loses all probes at his main as well as all his sairs. might as well GG now
On July 09 2010 20:27 SimonB wrote: Movie: I'm ahead?! JD went mutas, and I have excellent muta defense? I better run it all into his well-defended base while ignoring my own base.
Jaedong mutas are imba... Unbelievably smooth. Movie could have been saved if he perhaps added another stargate and went for a +1 speedlot/mass sair build instead of Archons which Jaedong's superior mechanics just allow him to ignore.
toss players lack brain ahaha wtf was that, arhcon/5 sairs perfect muta defense after you get advantage then move into sunkens and lose all your probes XD.
On July 09 2010 20:27 SimonB wrote: Movie: I'm ahead?! JD went mutas, and I have excellent muta defense? I better run it all into his well-defended base while ignoring my own base.
From what I remember of Movie's early games he likes to play aggressively; seems like a geniune error on his part to forget defending.
I like how every time anyone loses people are like LOL SO MUCH FOR ______. As if good players can never play badly and still be considered good overall.
On July 09 2010 20:29 Kazius wrote: Jaedong mutas are imba... Unbelievably smooth. Movie could have been saved if he perhaps added another stargate and went for a +1 speedlot/mass sair build instead of Archons which Jaedong's superior mechanics just allow him to ignore.
It has nothing to do with Jaedong's superior mechanics. The archons weren't there.
On July 09 2010 20:29 Kazius wrote: Jaedong mutas are imba... Unbelievably smooth. Movie could have been saved if he perhaps added another stargate and went for a +1 speedlot/mass sair build instead of Archons which Jaedong's superior mechanics just allow him to ignore.
Yeah the superior mechanics allowed to ignore. A bit because they were attacking the Sunken Line together with 2 Zealots while JD annihilated Movies probe Line, too. But most of all the "superior mechanics". ..
not taking anything away from JD, not his fault if his opponent decides to be a moron...
On July 09 2010 20:30 McDonalds wrote: I like how every time anyone loses people are like LOL SO MUCH FOR ______. As if good players can never play badly and still be considered good overall.
Man, I'm seeing some impossible fail by CJ players.
Skyhigh: Quicker 3rd base, much better economy, and 7 factories vs 4 gates and a few carriers, and then get owned. Movie: 2 early drone kills, kills tons of drones in zealot attack, has two archons and 6+ corsairs vs muta-scourge and gets owned.
On July 09 2010 20:29 4Servy wrote: toss players lack brain ahaha wtf was that, arhcon/5 sairs perfect muta defense after you get advantage then move into sunkens and lose all your probes XD.
It's Movie, his standard tactic is "screw defense, I'll just attack and hope for the best", that's why we all love him XD. Just that Jaedong's reaction with scourge/muta/ling was perfect. Made the sim city (in both bases) work to his advantage.
On July 09 2010 20:29 4Servy wrote: toss players lack brain ahaha wtf was that, arhcon/5 sairs perfect muta defense after you get advantage then move into sunkens and lose all your probes XD.
It's Movie, his standard tactic is "screw defense, I'll just attack and hope for the best", that's why we all love him XD. Just that Jaedong's reaction with scourge/muta/ling was perfect. Made the sim city (in both bases) work to his advantage.
Isn't that the point of a sim city? That you use it to your advantage?
On July 09 2010 20:29 4Servy wrote: toss players lack brain ahaha wtf was that, arhcon/5 sairs perfect muta defense after you get advantage then move into sunkens and lose all your probes XD.
It's Movie, his standard tactic is "screw defense, I'll just attack and hope for the best", that's why we all love him XD. Just that Jaedong's reaction with scourge/muta/ling was perfect. Made the sim city (in both bases) work to his advantage.
Isn't that the point of a sim city? That you use it to your advantage?
(didnt watch the game but) what I think he was trying to say is that JD used his opponents base against him.
On July 09 2010 20:29 4Servy wrote: toss players lack brain ahaha wtf was that, arhcon/5 sairs perfect muta defense after you get advantage then move into sunkens and lose all your probes XD.
It's Movie, his standard tactic is "screw defense, I'll just attack and hope for the best", that's why we all love him XD. Just that Jaedong's reaction with scourge/muta/ling was perfect. Made the sim city (in both bases) work to his advantage.
Isn't that the point of a sim city? That you use it to your advantage?
Yeah, but instead of a hydra bust (which is the standard tactic and what Movie defended against), he used muta/scourge, making the sim city in Movie's base do nothing but slow down his Archons.
To be fair Movie's decision making wasn't too bad. Archon + a few sairs is usually strong enough to ward zerg's muta's off, and the only reason why Movie fell to the glaive wurms was nothing short of superb muta control. I personally don't think movie was ahead after he attacked jaedong's natural with the zealots. True, JD lost mining time, a few drones and lings, but movie lost like 8 zealots, which is so critical at that stage of the game and seriously impaired his third's timing. I say that was an even exchange, maybe slightly in JD's favour, so I really don't understand why people insist that movie was ahead. However, Movie's decision (or lack thereof) to keep his two archons running across the map instead of helping to defend his bases after he realised that JD's muta control is breaking his defenses is questionble, and yeah... his attempt at breaking through what would of course be an unbreakble sunken wall is merely a desperate drowning man grasping at the last straws... But all that's said, Movie played decently, and JD's muta control, not to mention being able to minimise the damage when his sunk was broken, is ultimately the deciding factor.
On July 09 2010 20:37 5unrise wrote: To be fair Movie's decision making wasn't too bad. Archon + a few sairs is usually strong enough to ward zerg's muta's off, and the only reason why Movie fell to the glaive wurms was nothing short of superb muta control. I personally don't think movie was ahead after he attacked jaedong's natural with the zealots. True, JD lost mining time, a few drones and lings, but movie lost like 8 zealots, which is so critical at that stage of the game and seriously impaired his third's timing. I say that was an even exchange, maybe slightly in JD's favour, so I really don't understand why people insist that movie was ahead. However, Movie's decision (or lack thereof) to keep his two archons running across the map instead of helping to defend his bases after he realised that JD's muta control is breaking his defenses is questionble, and yeah... his attempt at breaking through what would of course be an unbreakble sunken wall is merely a desperate drowning man grasping at the last straws... But all that's said, Movie played decently, and JD's muta control, not to mention being able to minimise the damage when his sunk was broken, is ultimately the deciding factor.
On July 09 2010 20:30 McDonalds wrote: I like how every time anyone loses people are like LOL SO MUCH FOR ______. As if good players can never play badly and still be considered good overall.
It was THAT BAD.
It really wasn't >_>;; he played decent, not superb, but give JD some credit, and Movie his due
On July 09 2010 20:37 5unrise wrote: To be fair Movie's decision making wasn't too bad. Archon + a few sairs is usually strong enough to ward zerg's muta's off, and the only reason why Movie fell to the glaive wurms was nothing short of superb muta control. I personally don't think movie was ahead after he attacked jaedong's natural with the zealots. True, JD lost mining time, a few drones and lings, but movie lost like 8 zealots, which is so critical at that stage of the game and seriously impaired his third's timing. I say that was an even exchange, maybe slightly in JD's favour, so I really don't understand why people insist that movie was ahead. However, Movie's decision (or lack thereof) to keep his two archons running across the map instead of helping to defend his bases after he realised that JD's muta control is breaking his defenses is questionble, and yeah... his attempt at breaking through what would of course be an unbreakble sunken wall is merely a desperate drowning man grasping at the last straws... But all that's said, Movie played decently, and JD's muta control, not to mention being able to minimise the damage when his sunk was broken, is ultimately the deciding factor.
lolno. Movie played like absolute crap. it was retarded to move those units out because no matter what you do archons and zlots arnt going to break that simcity. he was ahead because he killed quite a few drones and had theoretically a prefect defense for Jaedong's opening, archons and sairs vs mutas. but instead he shits it all away by running his archons out and leaving his sairs alone to die.
On July 09 2010 20:30 McDonalds wrote: I like how every time anyone loses people are like LOL SO MUCH FOR ______. As if good players can never play badly and still be considered good overall.
It was THAT BAD.
It really wasn't >_>;; he played decent, not superb, but give JD some credit, and Movie his due
He didn't play the whole game bad, but THAT decision was BAD.
Movie going to lose his core, didnt really think that decision through. kills quite a few overlords tho. nice manages to kill 3 hydras with reaver around the gateway
Movie making the same mistake all Protoss make nowadays. Sloppy with the sairs and at the crucial moment he doesnt have enough. If he hadn't wasted 3-4 of them, he would have won the game by now
Movie is two lightyears behind now. No chance at all anymore. Seriously, why do Protoss play so sloppy with the sairs? It's pretty much an instaloss nowadays to lose all your sairs, yet it happens every game
Is it my imagination or did protoss used to get a lot more corsairs?
These days, they seem reasonably satisfied with having 5-6 (and usually lose them), but they used to get a real critical mass of 10+ that could deal with almost any number of scourge.
On July 09 2010 20:50 SimonB wrote: Is it my imagination or did protoss used to get a lot more corsairs?
These days, they seem reasonably satisfied with having 5-6 (and usually lose them), but they used to get a real critical mass of 10+ that could deal with almost any number of scourge.
Well, they donate them to the zerg at such a rate that they can't build up that mass
Ahaha Jaedong tryinh to lure the corsairs with an overlord with 12scourges behind ahahah i love this play. Must be so nerve breaking to play againt him :p
On July 09 2010 20:53 baubo wrote: Has any protoss won with this sair/reaver/d-web build recently? I think the last time I've seen it work was Stork v Luxury on Andromeda.
It could have worked here. If Movie had saved up some sairs instead of wasting them, he would have had 4 more d-webs with the reaver drop. Might have been enough to snipe the hatch and escape.
On July 09 2010 20:53 baubo wrote: Has any protoss won with this sair/reaver/d-web build recently? I think the last time I've seen it work was Stork v Luxury on Andromeda.
Sair/reaver worked well on Outsider and God's Garden.
On July 09 2010 20:53 baubo wrote: Has any protoss won with this sair/reaver/d-web build recently? I think the last time I've seen it work was Stork v Luxury on Andromeda.
It could have worked here. If Movie had saved up some sairs instead of wasting them, he would have had 4 more d-webs with the reaver drop. Might have been enough to snipe the hatch and escape.
Might have worked if this wasn't the most micro-intensive and multitasking heavy build in the Protoss arsenal and can only be used by heroes since the (now ancient) d-web nerf.
On July 09 2010 20:53 baubo wrote: Has any protoss won with this sair/reaver/d-web build recently? I think the last time I've seen it work was Stork v Luxury on Andromeda.
This one really wasn't the build that did not work. If you go sair reaver and even dis-web then you have to at least ceap some corsairs alive. Any decent protoss could have given a much better fight considering that JD played pretty bad at some points.
On July 09 2010 20:53 baubo wrote: Has any protoss won with this sair/reaver/d-web build recently? I think the last time I've seen it work was Stork v Luxury on Andromeda.
It could have worked here. If Movie had saved up some sairs instead of wasting them, he would have had 4 more d-webs with the reaver drop. Might have been enough to snipe the hatch and escape.
It just seem like a weird build. If you're going to do it, at least do go all-out, as in full turtle mode and taking the island expo quickly. To use it as an attacking style against Jaedong's scourge micro is just asking to lose.
On July 09 2010 20:53 baubo wrote: Has any protoss won with this sair/reaver/d-web build recently? I think the last time I've seen it work was Stork v Luxury on Andromeda.
This one really wasn't the build that did not work. If you go sair reaver and even dis-web then you have to at least ceap some corsairs alive. Any decent protoss could have given a much better fight considering that JD played pretty bad at some points.
On July 09 2010 20:53 baubo wrote: Has any protoss won with this sair/reaver/d-web build recently? I think the last time I've seen it work was Stork v Luxury on Andromeda.
This one really wasn't the build that did not work. If you go sair reaver and even dis-web then you have to at least ceap some corsairs alive. Any decent protoss could have given a much better fight considering that JD played pretty bad at some points.
How did Jaedong play bad at some points? He controlled the flow of the game from start to finish, there wasn't anything sloppy in there. Movie just does not have the control that is necessary to succeed with this build against Jaedong.
On July 09 2010 20:56 Kiante wrote: Once again movie shows how terrible he is
lol...Movie is among the best PvZers in the world. Jaedong just raped him.
And why?
Because PvZ is imbalanced. It's no use denying or using semantics anymore, ever since sim cities were perfected a toss win needs miracles or invisible ninjas.
And because Sair/Reaver stopped working against JD since Bisu vs JD on andromeda, seriously, it's almost auto loss against JD, but on maps like these it's not like they have better choices.
On July 09 2010 20:53 baubo wrote: Has any protoss won with this sair/reaver/d-web build recently? I think the last time I've seen it work was Stork v Luxury on Andromeda.
Sair/reaver worked well on Outsider and God's Garden.
Huge difference between sair/reaver and sair/reaver/d-web. The former transitions into normal ground game. The latter transitions into carriers.
Sigh. And I was hoping to see carriers in PvZ again too.
I was disappointed by Movie display, first game seemed ok, but last, it was so obvious from the beginning that Jae will take it, just after he lost his sairs, Movie, such a bad movie. And yes I remember the game when Bisu vs Jae on Andromeda, that was epic
On July 09 2010 20:56 Kiante wrote: Once again movie shows how terrible he is
lol...Movie is among the best PvZers in the world. Jaedong just raped him.
And why?
Because PvZ is imbalanced. It's no use denying or using semantics anymore, ever since sim cities were perfected a toss win needs miracles or invisible ninjas.
And because Sair/Reaver stopped working against JD since Bisu vs JD on andromeda, seriously, it's almost auto loss against JD, but on maps like these it's not like they have better choices.
If you're gonna lose, at least not with mistakes like those. Give me a break...
On July 09 2010 20:53 baubo wrote: Has any protoss won with this sair/reaver/d-web build recently? I think the last time I've seen it work was Stork v Luxury on Andromeda.
Sair/reaver worked well on Outsider and God's Garden.
Huge difference between sair/reaver and sair/reaver/d-web. The former transitions into normal ground game. The latter transitions into carriers.
Sigh. And I was hoping to see carriers in PvZ again too.
Well, yeah, that game would have been completely different had he even used the dweb to its full advantange, instead he let JD completely control the pace of the game. If Dreamliner is used for at least another season or two I think there will be a game where carriers come into play against zerg. The map just seems conducive for that build.
edit: I was talking about d-web as well, I just forgot to put it in my post. I think there were a few games on el nino with dweb too.
Yes! I predicted everything right with my post on the first page except for Hydra 2-0 Baby, I thought it would be Hydra 2-1 Baby. Like I said, Baby is clearly in a mini-slump right now, so you can't just say "OMG HE BEAT JAEDONG LAST TIME" or "OMG SO GOOD AT PROLEAGUE" because the recent results are all that matter. It was up to Baby to break his slump, and I didn't think he could with a 2-0 over Hydra.
On July 09 2010 20:53 baubo wrote: Has any protoss won with this sair/reaver/d-web build recently? I think the last time I've seen it work was Stork v Luxury on Andromeda.
This one really wasn't the build that did not work. If you go sair reaver and even dis-web then you have to at least ceap some corsairs alive. Any decent protoss could have given a much better fight considering that JD played pretty bad at some points.
interesting, and where did he play bad?
When he lost like 10 overlords to a couple of corsairs right over his natural maybe?
On July 09 2010 20:53 baubo wrote: Has any protoss won with this sair/reaver/d-web build recently? I think the last time I've seen it work was Stork v Luxury on Andromeda.
This one really wasn't the build that did not work. If you go sair reaver and even dis-web then you have to at least ceap some corsairs alive. Any decent protoss could have given a much better fight considering that JD played pretty bad at some points.
interesting, and where did he play bad?
When he lost like 10 overlords to a couple of corsairs right over his natural maybe?
It was too bad Movie couldn't capitalize on that. Overlords were basically extinct for a little while.
On July 09 2010 20:53 baubo wrote: Has any protoss won with this sair/reaver/d-web build recently? I think the last time I've seen it work was Stork v Luxury on Andromeda.
This one really wasn't the build that did not work. If you go sair reaver and even dis-web then you have to at least ceap some corsairs alive. Any decent protoss could have given a much better fight considering that JD played pretty bad at some points.
interesting, and where did he play bad?
When he lost like 10 overlords to a couple of corsairs right over his natural maybe?
Well, except it was six corsairs and six overlords.
OMFG EPIC! All 4 kings are in OSL. When the fuck was the last time this happened? Never? Most stacked Ro16 since god knows when. Damn you Hydra and Pure, wasting slots of an epic OSL. -_-
On July 09 2010 22:26 purpose wrote: Well in the end who cares. JD is just so good and the important thing today was that Stork crushed Skyhigh with some sweet Carrier play.
On July 10 2010 00:43 lone_hydra wrote: OMFG EPIC! All 4 kings are in OSL. When the fuck was the last time this happened? Never? Most stacked Ro16 since god knows when. Damn you Hydra and Pure, wasting slots of an epic OSL. -_-
On July 10 2010 00:43 lone_hydra wrote: OMFG EPIC! All 4 kings are in OSL. When the fuck was the last time this happened? Never? Most stacked Ro16 since god knows when. Damn you Hydra and Pure, wasting slots of an epic OSL. -_-
Batoo OSL I think,
Group A: bisu, yarnc and scrubs Group B: hero, fanta Group C: stork, flash, noobies Group D: jaedong, GGplay, luxury
I just went off memory but that was an interesting OSL
On July 10 2010 00:43 lone_hydra wrote: OMFG EPIC! All 4 kings are in OSL. When the fuck was the last time this happened? Never? Most stacked Ro16 since god knows when. Damn you Hydra and Pure, wasting slots of an epic OSL. -_-
Batoo OSL I think,
Group A: bisu, yarnc and scrubs Group B: hero, fanta Group C: stork, flash, noobies Group D: jaedong, GGplay, luxury
I just went off memory but that was an interesting OSL
Group A: Bisu, Stork, YellOw[ArnC], and July Group B: FanTaSy, hero, Leta, Tester Group C: Hwasin, BeSt, UpMaGiC, and Flash Group D: Jaedong, Luxury, GGplay, and Kal
On July 09 2010 18:18 Plexa wrote: movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
you dont actually watch starcraft do you
i concur. i cant believe this is our power rank writer. lol
Movie clearly supported his statement today. He had a few weaks were he was a strong player but he is far past his peak.
Still there are far worse PvZers then movie . Besides Jaedong will make most protoss look like B-teamers . Remember that people were thinking that Tyson had good PvZ and he was raped bader then Movie was .
WHOOO! Stork Byung GoOoOooo! DinoStomper of Terran! So happy Have not been interested in SC Pro Scene lately coz Stork not in PL and only in OSL :<. Glad to see him advance.
On July 09 2010 18:18 Plexa wrote: movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
you dont actually watch starcraft do you
i concur. i cant believe this is our power rank writer. lol
Movie clearly supported his statement today. He had a few weaks were he was a strong player but he is far past his peak.
Still there are far worse PvZers then movie . Besides Jaedong will make most protoss look like B-teamers . Remember that people were thinking that Tyson had good PvZ and he was raped bader then Movie was .
great layed out the blueprint on how to beat Movie, which is deny Movie the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defense wall, and deny Movie an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Movie likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment.
Jaedong obviously studied what Great and Hoejja did, and it amazes me how Movie failed to adapt to his weakness in PvZ. Jangbi and Bisu saw Movie's weakness and they were able to counter what zergs are able to do against Movie. Jangbi recently beat Hoejja, and Bisu recently beat Jaedong.
Zergs nowadays usually do a built similar to what Jaedong did against Movie or play mind games with him and do something else.
On July 09 2010 18:18 Plexa wrote: movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
you dont actually watch starcraft do you
i concur. i cant believe this is our power rank writer. lol
Movie clearly supported his statement today. He had a few weaks were he was a strong player but he is far past his peak.
Still there are far worse PvZers then movie . Besides Jaedong will make most protoss look like B-teamers . Remember that people were thinking that Tyson had good PvZ and he was raped bader then Movie was .
great layed out the blueprint on how to beat Movie, which is deny Movie the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defense wall, and deny Movie an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Movie likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment.
Jaedong obviously studied what Great and Hoejja did, and it amazes me how Movie failed to adapt to his weakness in PvZ. Jangbi and Bisu saw Movie's weakness and they were able to counter what zergs are able to do against Movie. Jangbi recently beat Hoejja, and Bisu recently beat Jaedong.
Zergs nowadays usually do a built similar to what Jaedong did against Movie or play mind games with him and do something else. They might as call it the "Movie build".
Wait are you serious? I don't mean to be rude, but is it that whenever some great fantastic super awesome idea suddenly pops into your head and you just decide it's time to enlighten the world. I normally don't comment on things like this, but this literally makes my head hurt. Like, maybe it's just that I'm not able to fathom the infinite depths of your wisdom or something, but here's my interpretation of what you're saying: There's some Protoss named Movie. He's a pretty chill guy. He has his own build. It's called the "Movie build." He made it up himself. That's why it's named after him. So this ballin dude goes and starts bashing Zergs left and right with his "Movie build." Even Jaedong gets his face smashed. But then, this Messiah of Zerg comes. His name is by.great, and he's a genius ZvPer. He goes and gathers all the face smashed Zergs and goes, "Yo, I just figured out how the beat the Movie build. You have to deny him the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defensive wall, and deny him an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Move likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment." The other Zergs suddenly have a new outlook on the matchup. "Thanks for teaching us how to sim city!" they say. "Now Movie's early game zealot and archon harassment will be nullified because I'll have a nice and tight wall to stop it!" So Jaedong, ever the workaholic, steals all the by.great and hoejja reps he can find, and by doing so acquires the ability to counter the "Movie build." And Movie, being a huge dummy, keeps insisting on doing the "Movie build" even though all the other Zergs already know how to hard counter it thanks to the work of by.great. But that's not all! Protosses like Jangbi and Bisu have also been watching from afar! They saw how all the other Zergs were so busy changing up their play style to counter the awesome force that is the "Movie build" so they in turn made up a "counter-counter Movie build," and using it beat both Jaedong and the almighty hoejja. So now, you can pretty much sum up ZvP as follows: Movie uses the "Movie build" which consists of zealot archon harassment. Zergs use the "counter Movie build" which features a super awesome sim city introduced by by.great. Jangbi and Bisu use the "counter-counter Movie build" which somehow counters sim cities. And all the other Protoss just dodge PvZ or something. Does that sound about right?
On July 10 2010 09:39 Saracen wrote: Wait are you serious? I don't mean to be rude, but is it that whenever some great fantastic super awesome idea suddenly pops into your head and you just decide it's time to enlighten the world. I normally don't comment on things like this, but this literally makes my head hurt.
Is it bad that I knew who wrote what you were responding to just by reading this? Like I should take some time off TL or something.
Well it would've been plausible if Jaedong or Movie used the same builds in both games, or if Jaedong always uses the same build in ZvP, or he actually described this counter-counter Movie build, or if he cited evidence of these great new builds beyond four games before establishing them as a counter.
Who is he trying to be, I'm confused now Idra? You know Harem and Evo, you guys are going to make me stop posting out of embarrassment x2
On July 09 2010 18:18 Plexa wrote: movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
you dont actually watch starcraft do you
i concur. i cant believe this is our power rank writer. lol
Movie clearly supported his statement today. He had a few weaks were he was a strong player but he is far past his peak.
Still there are far worse PvZers then movie . Besides Jaedong will make most protoss look like B-teamers . Remember that people were thinking that Tyson had good PvZ and he was raped bader then Movie was .
great layed out the blueprint on how to beat Movie, which is deny Movie the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defense wall, and deny Movie an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Movie likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment.
Jaedong obviously studied what Great and Hoejja did, and it amazes me how Movie failed to adapt to his weakness in PvZ. Jangbi and Bisu saw Movie's weakness and they were able to counter what zergs are able to do against Movie. Jangbi recently beat Hoejja, and Bisu recently beat Jaedong.
Zergs nowadays usually do a built similar to what Jaedong did against Movie or play mind games with him and do something else. They might as call it the "Movie build".
Wait are you serious? I don't mean to be rude, but is it that whenever some great fantastic super awesome idea suddenly pops into your head and you just decide it's time to enlighten the world. I normally don't comment on things like this, but this literally makes my head hurt. Like, maybe it's just that I'm not able to fathom the infinite depths of your wisdom or something, but here's my interpretation of what you're saying: There's some Protoss named Movie. He's a pretty chill guy. He has his own build. It's called the "Movie build." He made it up himself. That's why it's named after him. So this ballin dude goes and starts bashing Zergs left and right with his "Movie build." Even Jaedong gets his face smashed. But then, this Messiah of Zerg comes. His name is by.great, and he's a genius ZvPer. He goes and gathers all the face smashed Zergs and goes, "Yo, I just figured out how the beat the Movie build. You have to deny him the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defensive wall, and deny him an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Move likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment." The other Zergs suddenly have a new outlook on the matchup. "Thanks for teaching us how to sim city!" they say. "Now Movie's early game zealot and archon harassment will be nullified because I'll have a nice and tight wall to stop it!" So Jaedong, ever the workaholic, steals all the by.great and hoejja reps he can find, and by doing so acquires the ability to counter the "Movie build." And Movie, being a huge dummy, keeps insisting on doing the "Movie build" even though all the other Zergs already know how to hard counter it thanks to the work of by.great. But that's not all! Protosses like Jangbi and Bisu have also been watching from afar! They saw how all the other Zergs were so busy changing up their play style to counter the awesome force that is the "Movie build" so they in turn made up a "counter-counter Movie build," and using it beat both Jaedong and the almighty hoejja. So now, you can pretty much sum up ZvP as follows: Movie uses the "Movie build" which consists of zealot archon harassment. Zergs use the "counter Movie build" which features a super awesome sim city introduced by by.great. Jangbi and Bisu use the "counter-counter Movie build" which somehow counters sim cities. And all the other Protoss just dodge PvZ or something. Does that sound about right?
Obviously you are being rude, so quit with the sarcasm.
Never implied I was enlightening everyone, actually I never knew a defensive wall was called sim city. But sim city is the best way to counter, Movie. Jaedong obviously studied Movie's defeats to Hoejja and Great, and Movie did a similar built when he defeated Zero in the EVER 2009 OSL. I don't know what games Jaedong watched, but he obviously studied something. He notices Movie likes to use archons for anti-air, and he used his muta-micro to his fullest in game 1. And where is your reading comprehension, I never said Movie had his own build, I said zergs have their own build to particularly counter movie. I'm pretty sure most zergs recognized movie as a dangerous pvz sniper, of course zergs don't see him that much of a threat since losing to great (an average zerg).
Jangbi and Bisu know how to counter sim-city, while Movie doesn't. And Movie obviously did other bone headed mistakes.
On July 09 2010 18:18 Plexa wrote: movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
you dont actually watch starcraft do you
i concur. i cant believe this is our power rank writer. lol
Movie clearly supported his statement today. He had a few weaks were he was a strong player but he is far past his peak.
Still there are far worse PvZers then movie . Besides Jaedong will make most protoss look like B-teamers . Remember that people were thinking that Tyson had good PvZ and he was raped bader then Movie was .
great layed out the blueprint on how to beat Movie, which is deny Movie the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defense wall, and deny Movie an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Movie likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment.
Jaedong obviously studied what Great and Hoejja did, and it amazes me how Movie failed to adapt to his weakness in PvZ. Jangbi and Bisu saw Movie's weakness and they were able to counter what zergs are able to do against Movie. Jangbi recently beat Hoejja, and Bisu recently beat Jaedong.
Zergs nowadays usually do a built similar to what Jaedong did against Movie or play mind games with him and do something else. They might as call it the "Movie build".
What in the fucking world are you on about. The Zerg ZvP simcity was originated by Shark on a game in Destination and has been around since. I have no idea where in the world you got any of this from. It makes no sense. It's so nonsensical that it actually makes my head hurt.
On July 09 2010 18:18 Plexa wrote: movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
you dont actually watch starcraft do you
i concur. i cant believe this is our power rank writer. lol
Movie clearly supported his statement today. He had a few weaks were he was a strong player but he is far past his peak.
Still there are far worse PvZers then movie . Besides Jaedong will make most protoss look like B-teamers . Remember that people were thinking that Tyson had good PvZ and he was raped bader then Movie was .
great layed out the blueprint on how to beat Movie, which is deny Movie the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defense wall, and deny Movie an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Movie likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment.
Jaedong obviously studied what Great and Hoejja did, and it amazes me how Movie failed to adapt to his weakness in PvZ. Jangbi and Bisu saw Movie's weakness and they were able to counter what zergs are able to do against Movie. Jangbi recently beat Hoejja, and Bisu recently beat Jaedong.
Zergs nowadays usually do a built similar to what Jaedong did against Movie or play mind games with him and do something else. They might as call it the "Movie build".
Wait are you serious? I don't mean to be rude, but is it that whenever some great fantastic super awesome idea suddenly pops into your head and you just decide it's time to enlighten the world. I normally don't comment on things like this, but this literally makes my head hurt. Like, maybe it's just that I'm not able to fathom the infinite depths of your wisdom or something, but here's my interpretation of what you're saying: There's some Protoss named Movie. He's a pretty chill guy. He has his own build. It's called the "Movie build." He made it up himself. That's why it's named after him. So this ballin dude goes and starts bashing Zergs left and right with his "Movie build." Even Jaedong gets his face smashed. But then, this Messiah of Zerg comes. His name is by.great, and he's a genius ZvPer. He goes and gathers all the face smashed Zergs and goes, "Yo, I just figured out how the beat the Movie build. You have to deny him the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defensive wall, and deny him an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Move likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment." The other Zergs suddenly have a new outlook on the matchup. "Thanks for teaching us how to sim city!" they say. "Now Movie's early game zealot and archon harassment will be nullified because I'll have a nice and tight wall to stop it!" So Jaedong, ever the workaholic, steals all the by.great and hoejja reps he can find, and by doing so acquires the ability to counter the "Movie build." And Movie, being a huge dummy, keeps insisting on doing the "Movie build" even though all the other Zergs already know how to hard counter it thanks to the work of by.great. But that's not all! Protosses like Jangbi and Bisu have also been watching from afar! They saw how all the other Zergs were so busy changing up their play style to counter the awesome force that is the "Movie build" so they in turn made up a "counter-counter Movie build," and using it beat both Jaedong and the almighty hoejja. So now, you can pretty much sum up ZvP as follows: Movie uses the "Movie build" which consists of zealot archon harassment. Zergs use the "counter Movie build" which features a super awesome sim city introduced by by.great. Jangbi and Bisu use the "counter-counter Movie build" which somehow counters sim cities. And all the other Protoss just dodge PvZ or something. Does that sound about right?
Obviously you are being rude, so quit with the sarcasm.
Never implied I was enlightening everyone, actually I never knew a defensive wall was called sim city. But sim city is the best way to counter, Movie. Jaedong obviously studied Movie's defeats to Hoejja and Great, and Movie did a similar built when he defeated Zero in the EVER 2009 OSL. I don't know what games Jaedong watched, but he obviously studied something. He notices Movie likes to use archons for anti-air, and he used his muta-micro to his fullest in game 1. And where is your reading comprehension, I never said Movie had his own build, I said zergs have their own build to particularly counter movie. I'm pretty sure most zergs recognized movie as a dangerous pvz sniper, of course zergs don't see him that much of a threat since losing to great (an average zerg).
Jangbi and Bisu know how to counter sim-city, while Movie doesn't. And Movie obvioulsly did some other mistakes to why he lost to Jaedong.
What the FUCKKKKKK are you on about. Simcity is STANDARD. It is used by every Zerg against every goddamned Protoss in every goddamned game in every goddamned map. The FUCK are you on about. Every protoss has used archons as a countermeasure to mutalisks to some extent in their careers and this is normal. Obviously citing older games is useless to you as you think that Zerg simcity was originated from great (ROFL).
and rofl at "Movie doesn't know how to counter simcity" when Movie's game against Jaedong on HBR using 4gate goons is one of Movie's most famous games.
On July 09 2010 18:18 Plexa wrote: movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
you dont actually watch starcraft do you
i concur. i cant believe this is our power rank writer. lol
Movie clearly supported his statement today. He had a few weaks were he was a strong player but he is far past his peak.
Still there are far worse PvZers then movie . Besides Jaedong will make most protoss look like B-teamers . Remember that people were thinking that Tyson had good PvZ and he was raped bader then Movie was .
great layed out the blueprint on how to beat Movie, which is deny Movie the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defense wall, and deny Movie an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Movie likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment.
Jaedong obviously studied what Great and Hoejja did, and it amazes me how Movie failed to adapt to his weakness in PvZ. Jangbi and Bisu saw Movie's weakness and they were able to counter what zergs are able to do against Movie. Jangbi recently beat Hoejja, and Bisu recently beat Jaedong.
Zergs nowadays usually do a built similar to what Jaedong did against Movie or play mind games with him and do something else. They might as call it the "Movie build".
Wait are you serious? I don't mean to be rude, but is it that whenever some great fantastic super awesome idea suddenly pops into your head and you just decide it's time to enlighten the world. I normally don't comment on things like this, but this literally makes my head hurt. Like, maybe it's just that I'm not able to fathom the infinite depths of your wisdom or something, but here's my interpretation of what you're saying: There's some Protoss named Movie. He's a pretty chill guy. He has his own build. It's called the "Movie build." He made it up himself. That's why it's named after him. So this ballin dude goes and starts bashing Zergs left and right with his "Movie build." Even Jaedong gets his face smashed. But then, this Messiah of Zerg comes. His name is by.great, and he's a genius ZvPer. He goes and gathers all the face smashed Zergs and goes, "Yo, I just figured out how the beat the Movie build. You have to deny him the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defensive wall, and deny him an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Move likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment." The other Zergs suddenly have a new outlook on the matchup. "Thanks for teaching us how to sim city!" they say. "Now Movie's early game zealot and archon harassment will be nullified because I'll have a nice and tight wall to stop it!" So Jaedong, ever the workaholic, steals all the by.great and hoejja reps he can find, and by doing so acquires the ability to counter the "Movie build." And Movie, being a huge dummy, keeps insisting on doing the "Movie build" even though all the other Zergs already know how to hard counter it thanks to the work of by.great. But that's not all! Protosses like Jangbi and Bisu have also been watching from afar! They saw how all the other Zergs were so busy changing up their play style to counter the awesome force that is the "Movie build" so they in turn made up a "counter-counter Movie build," and using it beat both Jaedong and the almighty hoejja. So now, you can pretty much sum up ZvP as follows: Movie uses the "Movie build" which consists of zealot archon harassment. Zergs use the "counter Movie build" which features a super awesome sim city introduced by by.great. Jangbi and Bisu use the "counter-counter Movie build" which somehow counters sim cities. And all the other Protoss just dodge PvZ or something. Does that sound about right?
Obviously you are being rude, so quit with the sarcasm.
Never implied I was enlightening everyone, actually I never knew a defensive wall was called sim city. But sim city is the best way to counter, Movie. Jaedong obviously studied Movie's defeats to Hoejja and Great, and Movie did a similar built when he defeated Zero in the EVER 2009 OSL. I don't know what games Jaedong watched, but he obviously studied something. He notices Movie likes to use archons for anti-air, and he used his muta-micro to his fullest in game 1. And where is your reading comprehension, I never said Movie had his own build, I said zergs have their own build to particularly counter movie. I'm pretty sure most zergs recognized movie as a dangerous pvz sniper, of course zergs don't see him that much of a threat since losing to great (an average zerg).
Jangbi and Bisu know how to counter sim-city, while Movie doesn't. And Movie obvioulsly did some other mistakes to why he lost to Jaedong.
What the FUCKKKKKK are you on about. Simcity is STANDARD. It is used by every Zerg against every goddamned Protoss in every goddamned game in every goddamned map. The FUCK are you on about. Every protoss has used archons as a countermeasure to mutalisks to some extent in their careers and this is normal. Obviously citing older games is useless to you as you think that Zerg simcity was originated from great (ROFL).
and rofl at "Movie doesn't know how to counter simcity" when Movie's game against Jaedong on HBR using 4gate goons is one of Movie's most famous games.
I never said simicity originated from Great or I never meant to say that. I just said that Great layed out the blueprint on how to beat Movie.
On July 09 2010 18:18 Plexa wrote: movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
you dont actually watch starcraft do you
i concur. i cant believe this is our power rank writer. lol
Movie clearly supported his statement today. He had a few weaks were he was a strong player but he is far past his peak.
Still there are far worse PvZers then movie . Besides Jaedong will make most protoss look like B-teamers . Remember that people were thinking that Tyson had good PvZ and he was raped bader then Movie was .
great layed out the blueprint on how to beat Movie, which is deny Movie the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defense wall, and deny Movie an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Movie likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment.
Jaedong obviously studied what Great and Hoejja did, and it amazes me how Movie failed to adapt to his weakness in PvZ. Jangbi and Bisu saw Movie's weakness and they were able to counter what zergs are able to do against Movie. Jangbi recently beat Hoejja, and Bisu recently beat Jaedong.
Zergs nowadays usually do a built similar to what Jaedong did against Movie or play mind games with him and do something else. They might as call it the "Movie build".
Wait are you serious? I don't mean to be rude, but is it that whenever some great fantastic super awesome idea suddenly pops into your head and you just decide it's time to enlighten the world. I normally don't comment on things like this, but this literally makes my head hurt. Like, maybe it's just that I'm not able to fathom the infinite depths of your wisdom or something, but here's my interpretation of what you're saying: There's some Protoss named Movie. He's a pretty chill guy. He has his own build. It's called the "Movie build." He made it up himself. That's why it's named after him. So this ballin dude goes and starts bashing Zergs left and right with his "Movie build." Even Jaedong gets his face smashed. But then, this Messiah of Zerg comes. His name is by.great, and he's a genius ZvPer. He goes and gathers all the face smashed Zergs and goes, "Yo, I just figured out how the beat the Movie build. You have to deny him the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defensive wall, and deny him an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Move likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment." The other Zergs suddenly have a new outlook on the matchup. "Thanks for teaching us how to sim city!" they say. "Now Movie's early game zealot and archon harassment will be nullified because I'll have a nice and tight wall to stop it!" So Jaedong, ever the workaholic, steals all the by.great and hoejja reps he can find, and by doing so acquires the ability to counter the "Movie build." And Movie, being a huge dummy, keeps insisting on doing the "Movie build" even though all the other Zergs already know how to hard counter it thanks to the work of by.great. But that's not all! Protosses like Jangbi and Bisu have also been watching from afar! They saw how all the other Zergs were so busy changing up their play style to counter the awesome force that is the "Movie build" so they in turn made up a "counter-counter Movie build," and using it beat both Jaedong and the almighty hoejja. So now, you can pretty much sum up ZvP as follows: Movie uses the "Movie build" which consists of zealot archon harassment. Zergs use the "counter Movie build" which features a super awesome sim city introduced by by.great. Jangbi and Bisu use the "counter-counter Movie build" which somehow counters sim cities. And all the other Protoss just dodge PvZ or something. Does that sound about right?
Obviously you are being rude, so quit with the sarcasm.
Never implied I was enlightening everyone, actually I never knew a defensive wall was called sim city. But sim city is the best way to counter, Movie. Jaedong obviously studied Movie's defeats to Hoejja and Great, and Movie did a similar built when he defeated Zero in the EVER 2009 OSL. I don't know what games Jaedong watched, but he obviously studied something. He notices Movie likes to use archons for anti-air, and he used his muta-micro to his fullest in game 1. And where is your reading comprehension, I never said Movie had his own build, I said zergs have their own build to particularly counter movie. I'm pretty sure most zergs recognized movie as a dangerous pvz sniper, of course zergs don't see him that much of a threat since losing to great (an average zerg).
Jangbi and Bisu know how to counter sim-city, while Movie doesn't. And Movie obviously did other bone headed mistakes.
Uh, movie did the exact same thing against Jaedong on Byzantium 3 during the Avalon MSL, and Jaedong countered with the exact same thing (game 1 in this series). This happened before EVER 2009, so I have no idea what rock you are smoking when you say things like "great and hoejja (two really amazing zergs, btw, revolutionary) laid the blueprint to beating movie." I think almost everyone here knows what a zerg wall is, so try not to sound like some omniscient force revealing the light for us simpletons.
On July 09 2010 18:18 Plexa wrote: movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
you dont actually watch starcraft do you
i concur. i cant believe this is our power rank writer. lol
Movie clearly supported his statement today. He had a few weaks were he was a strong player but he is far past his peak.
Still there are far worse PvZers then movie . Besides Jaedong will make most protoss look like B-teamers . Remember that people were thinking that Tyson had good PvZ and he was raped bader then Movie was .
great layed out the blueprint on how to beat Movie, which is deny Movie the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defense wall, and deny Movie an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Movie likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment.
Jaedong obviously studied what Great and Hoejja did, and it amazes me how Movie failed to adapt to his weakness in PvZ. Jangbi and Bisu saw Movie's weakness and they were able to counter what zergs are able to do against Movie. Jangbi recently beat Hoejja, and Bisu recently beat Jaedong.
Zergs nowadays usually do a built similar to what Jaedong did against Movie or play mind games with him and do something else. They might as call it the "Movie build".
Wait are you serious? I don't mean to be rude, but is it that whenever some great fantastic super awesome idea suddenly pops into your head and you just decide it's time to enlighten the world. I normally don't comment on things like this, but this literally makes my head hurt. Like, maybe it's just that I'm not able to fathom the infinite depths of your wisdom or something, but here's my interpretation of what you're saying: There's some Protoss named Movie. He's a pretty chill guy. He has his own build. It's called the "Movie build." He made it up himself. That's why it's named after him. So this ballin dude goes and starts bashing Zergs left and right with his "Movie build." Even Jaedong gets his face smashed. But then, this Messiah of Zerg comes. His name is by.great, and he's a genius ZvPer. He goes and gathers all the face smashed Zergs and goes, "Yo, I just figured out how the beat the Movie build. You have to deny him the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defensive wall, and deny him an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Move likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment." The other Zergs suddenly have a new outlook on the matchup. "Thanks for teaching us how to sim city!" they say. "Now Movie's early game zealot and archon harassment will be nullified because I'll have a nice and tight wall to stop it!" So Jaedong, ever the workaholic, steals all the by.great and hoejja reps he can find, and by doing so acquires the ability to counter the "Movie build." And Movie, being a huge dummy, keeps insisting on doing the "Movie build" even though all the other Zergs already know how to hard counter it thanks to the work of by.great. But that's not all! Protosses like Jangbi and Bisu have also been watching from afar! They saw how all the other Zergs were so busy changing up their play style to counter the awesome force that is the "Movie build" so they in turn made up a "counter-counter Movie build," and using it beat both Jaedong and the almighty hoejja. So now, you can pretty much sum up ZvP as follows: Movie uses the "Movie build" which consists of zealot archon harassment. Zergs use the "counter Movie build" which features a super awesome sim city introduced by by.great. Jangbi and Bisu use the "counter-counter Movie build" which somehow counters sim cities. And all the other Protoss just dodge PvZ or something. Does that sound about right?
Obviously you are being rude, so quit with the sarcasm.
Never implied I was enlightening everyone, actually I never knew a defensive wall was called sim city. But sim city is the best way to counter, Movie. Jaedong obviously studied Movie's defeats to Hoejja and Great, and Movie did a similar built when he defeated Zero in the EVER 2009 OSL. I don't know what games Jaedong watched, but he obviously studied something. He notices Movie likes to use archons for anti-air, and he used his muta-micro to his fullest in game 1. And where is your reading comprehension, I never said Movie had his own build, I said zergs have their own build to particularly counter movie. I'm pretty sure most zergs recognized movie as a dangerous pvz sniper, of course zergs don't see him that much of a threat since losing to great (an average zerg).
Jangbi and Bisu know how to counter sim-city, while Movie doesn't. And Movie obviously did other bone headed mistakes.
Uh, movie did the exact same thing against Jaedong on Byzantium 3 during the Avalon MSL, and Jaedong countered with the exact same thing (game 1 in this series). This happened before EVER 2009, so I have no idea what rock you are smoking when you say things like "great and hoejja (two really amazing zergs, btw, revolutionary) laid the blueprint to beating movie." I think almost everyone here knows what a zerg wall is, so try not to sound like some omniscient force revealing the light for us simpletons.
lol almost everyone in TL knows I know less of the mechanics and everything of SC then everyone here. Also almost everyone knows I'm bias towards Movie, so I try to discredit Jaedong's win.
And I remember the games from the Avalon MSL, the builds and how Jaedong played against Movie were different.
And yet you try to make yourself seem like you understood the game. That's quite an uninteresting cop-out. There's a difference between having an interest in a certain subject and trying to make it look like you know an objective truth about a subject when you have no idea what in the world you are talking about.
On July 10 2010 10:35 koreasilver wrote: And yet you try to make yourself seem like you understood the game. That's quite an uninteresting cop-out.
On February 19 2010 19:13 FireGuyX wrote: I question Guemchi's game sense against zergs, why did he choose sair/reaver on a short distance to the opponent? He should have massed up high templars.
On February 01 2010 22:55 FireGuyX wrote: I don't even know what a 9-pool is other then the fact that's its' a zergling rush.
On July 10 2010 10:35 koreasilver wrote: And yet you try to make yourself seem like you understood the game. That's quite an uninteresting cop-out. There's a difference between having an interest in a certain subject and trying to make it look like you know an objective truth about a subject when you have no idea what in the world you are talking about.
I understand the game, and I know what's going on, I just don't know the terms of pro-sc.
On February 19 2010 19:13 FireGuyX wrote: I question Guemchi's game sense against zergs, why did he choose sair/reaver on a short distance to the opponent? He should have massed up high templars.
There are plenty of TL users who don't know much about the basics of Broodwar, but few of them advertise their ignorance on such a consistent basis. If you can't contribute to the forum in a positive way, at least offer it the gift of your absence.
On July 10 2010 10:35 koreasilver wrote: And yet you try to make yourself seem like you understood the game. That's quite an uninteresting cop-out. There's a difference between having an interest in a certain subject and trying to make it look like you know an objective truth about a subject when you have no idea what in the world you are talking about.
I understand the game, and I know what's going on, I just don't know the terms of pro-sc.
No, no you don't understand the game. The issue with your two earlier posts wasn't about an ignorance of terminology. If you think that our criticism was with your terminology then I'm just going to have to turn around the accusation of a lack of reading comprehension that you gave to another poster earlier upon your own head.
Basically, just don't claim objectivity in shit that you don't understand. Talk about it, ask about it, question, inquire, watch, study, etc., w/e the fuck you want to do but don't go around talking about shit like you know about it when you don't. It is absolutely irritating and it misleads newcomers.
On July 10 2010 10:35 koreasilver wrote: And yet you try to make yourself seem like you understood the game. That's quite an uninteresting cop-out. There's a difference between having an interest in a certain subject and trying to make it look like you know an objective truth about a subject when you have no idea what in the world you are talking about.
I understand the game, and I know what's going on, I just don't know the terms of pro-sc.
No, no you don't understand the game. The issue with your two earlier posts wasn't about an ignorance of terminology. If you think that our criticism was with your terminology then I'm just going to have to turn around the accusation of a lack of reading comprehension that you gave to another poster earlier upon your own head.
lol don't over-analyze my arguments. I understand the game, not as fully as most TL users, but I understand the game.
On July 09 2010 18:18 Plexa wrote: movie can't pvz to save his life =/. I'm going to watch though, but I don't have high hopes haha
you dont actually watch starcraft do you
i concur. i cant believe this is our power rank writer. lol
Movie clearly supported his statement today. He had a few weaks were he was a strong player but he is far past his peak.
Still there are far worse PvZers then movie . Besides Jaedong will make most protoss look like B-teamers . Remember that people were thinking that Tyson had good PvZ and he was raped bader then Movie was .
great layed out the blueprint on how to beat Movie, which is deny Movie the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defense wall, and deny Movie an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Movie likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment.
Jaedong obviously studied what Great and Hoejja did, and it amazes me how Movie failed to adapt to his weakness in PvZ. Jangbi and Bisu saw Movie's weakness and they were able to counter what zergs are able to do against Movie. Jangbi recently beat Hoejja, and Bisu recently beat Jaedong.
Zergs nowadays usually do a built similar to what Jaedong did against Movie or play mind games with him and do something else. They might as call it the "Movie build".
Wait are you serious? I don't mean to be rude, but is it that whenever some great fantastic super awesome idea suddenly pops into your head and you just decide it's time to enlighten the world. I normally don't comment on things like this, but this literally makes my head hurt. Like, maybe it's just that I'm not able to fathom the infinite depths of your wisdom or something, but here's my interpretation of what you're saying: There's some Protoss named Movie. He's a pretty chill guy. He has his own build. It's called the "Movie build." He made it up himself. That's why it's named after him. So this ballin dude goes and starts bashing Zergs left and right with his "Movie build." Even Jaedong gets his face smashed. But then, this Messiah of Zerg comes. His name is by.great, and he's a genius ZvPer. He goes and gathers all the face smashed Zergs and goes, "Yo, I just figured out how the beat the Movie build. You have to deny him the opportunity for early harassment by setting up a defensive wall, and deny him an opportunity for early expansion by burrowing lings in other expansions. Move likes a unit composition of archons and zealots and a defensive wall usually puts Movie in his tracks. A defensive wall usually consist of a hatchery, an evolution chamber, hydralisk den, a sunken, and then have some lings and hydralisks to prevent any harassment." The other Zergs suddenly have a new outlook on the matchup. "Thanks for teaching us how to sim city!" they say. "Now Movie's early game zealot and archon harassment will be nullified because I'll have a nice and tight wall to stop it!" So Jaedong, ever the workaholic, steals all the by.great and hoejja reps he can find, and by doing so acquires the ability to counter the "Movie build." And Movie, being a huge dummy, keeps insisting on doing the "Movie build" even though all the other Zergs already know how to hard counter it thanks to the work of by.great. But that's not all! Protosses like Jangbi and Bisu have also been watching from afar! They saw how all the other Zergs were so busy changing up their play style to counter the awesome force that is the "Movie build" so they in turn made up a "counter-counter Movie build," and using it beat both Jaedong and the almighty hoejja. So now, you can pretty much sum up ZvP as follows: Movie uses the "Movie build" which consists of zealot archon harassment. Zergs use the "counter Movie build" which features a super awesome sim city introduced by by.great. Jangbi and Bisu use the "counter-counter Movie build" which somehow counters sim cities. And all the other Protoss just dodge PvZ or something. Does that sound about right?
Obviously you are being rude, so quit with the sarcasm.
Never implied I was enlightening everyone, actually I never knew a defensive wall was called sim city. But sim city is the best way to counter, Movie. Jaedong obviously studied Movie's defeats to Hoejja and Great, and Movie did a similar built when he defeated Zero in the EVER 2009 OSL. I don't know what games Jaedong watched, but he obviously studied something. He notices Movie likes to use archons for anti-air, and he used his muta-micro to his fullest in game 1. And where is your reading comprehension, I never said Movie had his own build, I said zergs have their own build to particularly counter movie. I'm pretty sure most zergs recognized movie as a dangerous pvz sniper, of course zergs don't see him that much of a threat since losing to great (an average zerg).
Jangbi and Bisu know how to counter sim-city, while Movie doesn't. And Movie obviously did other bone headed mistakes.
Uh, movie did the exact same thing against Jaedong on Byzantium 3 during the Avalon MSL, and Jaedong countered with the exact same thing (game 1 in this series). This happened before EVER 2009, so I have no idea what rock you are smoking when you say things like "great and hoejja (two really amazing zergs, btw, revolutionary) laid the blueprint to beating movie." I think almost everyone here knows what a zerg wall is, so try not to sound like some omniscient force revealing the light for us simpletons.
lol almost everyone in TL knows I know less of the mechanics and everything of SC then everyone here. So yes I admit, I'm basically dumb when it comes to SC, but I analyze and post anyway. Also almost everyone knows I'm bias towards Movie, so I try to discredit Jaedong's win in every way.
And I remember the games from the Avalon MSL, the builds and how Jaedong played against Movie were different.
Just because the games turn out different do not mean Jaedong played differently. Movie did almost the exact same timing attack with +1 zealots with Jaedong (barely) holding it off, then got archons, then tried to do another timing attack before any sizable lurker army came out. The build in both games focused on upgrades zealots and archons with minimal numbers of corsairs. Movie was able to take a third base in Byzantium because the third the protoss wants to take is closer than on EoTS and his second timing attack did more damage in that game.
On July 10 2010 10:47 koreasilver wrote: No, you do not understand the game.
That's your opinion.
But it's also the truth.
Yup it's the undeniable truth I must accept in TL. *sarcasm*.
I understand the game, I know what's going on, I know who's winning, and I do recognize some builts when I read the other TL users comments.
It's not like I can't tell who's low on econ, and how much resources X player lost, etc. Again I'll admit I don't fully understand it, but I know when X player is in trouble, etc, etc.
On July 10 2010 10:47 koreasilver wrote: No, you do not understand the game.
That's your opinion.
But it's also the truth.
Yup it's the undeniable truth I must accept in TL *sarcasm*.
I understand the game, I know what's going on, I know who's winning, and I do recognize some built when I read the other TL users comments.
It's not like I can't tell who's low on econ, and how much resources X player lost, etc. Again I'll admit I don't fully understand it, but I know when X player is in trouble, etc, etc.
Dude you forgot "oh btw I haven't eaten at all this month haha and I just decided to quit my job because it has been too tiring, so please donate so I can get food"
Wow, I guess people here don't really watch great. Either that, or fanboyism just get in the way of not making constructive statements.
Of course great didn't invent simcity. And no, he's not a revolutionary zerg. But if you watch great play ZvP, and I have done so quite a bit as a Samsung fan, you'll see that great turtles like his life depends on it. In today's metagame when most zergs go with 5 hatch hydra til the game ends, great often goes with lurkers, and tries to turtle into 4-bases before moving out. I won't say it's good or bad, but that's his style.
So while simcities don't kill speedlot/archon, having extra sunkens do. I mean, the whole "perfected simcity" common these days was in response to the era where protoss use their 2-archon speedlot attack. As the metagame changed from that era, zergs have since skimped on defense as now it's all about hydra rushes. But you can say great is kind of a throwback zerg, who prefers the longer macro game. So his extra early game defense is indeed a perfect counter to Movie's timing attacks.
The turtle until 4gas kicks in thing was pioneered much more by Zero and Effort. These two preceded Great in this defensive style of play. If you've ever actually been paying attention to ZvP the past year, particularly Zero's games then you would have known this a long time ago. Great actually is a pretty decent player but to attribute him over the actual pioneers (who are better at the style of play as well) is kinda lol.
As for the "skimping on defense" I'm just going to have to point you to recent ZvP games again. Zergs are much more conservative and willing to spend resources on defenses than before. Whereas in the earlier days of 3hatch lair -> hydra builds sunks were something that was tried to be avoided, building a minimum of one sunk at the nat and the third is an automated process in modern ZvP with the 3hatch lair builds now. To say, "zergs have since skimped on defense as now it's all about hydra rushes," is just untrue, both in the skimping defense accusation and of hydra rushes, again which if you've actually been paying attention you would have realized that the 3hatch lair builds have become much more diverse.
On July 10 2010 12:18 shawster wrote: fireguyx are you serious? i mean logically most of your posts are... fail.
stuff like not knowing what 9pool is, using burrowed lings and great invented sim city is..
take our comments to heart and think before you post, theres a reason why people are treating you as an idiot
You fail if you think I'm going to take your messages to the heart. I already have admitted I'm not too knowledge about SC so your insults are meaningless. Okay I shouldn't have posted and tried to discredit Jaedong's win, but that was more about me being a fan of Movie and I was hoping to see Jaedong knocked out of the OSL again.
On July 10 2010 12:22 koreasilver wrote: The turtle until 4gas kicks in thing was pioneered much more by Zero and Effort. These two preceded Great in this defensive style of play. If you've ever actually been paying attention to ZvP the past year, particularly Zero's games then you would have known this a long time ago. Great actually is a pretty decent player but to attribute him over the actual pioneers (who are better at the style of play as well) is kinda lol.
Please, at least freaking read before you get defensive. Like I said, I know great didn't invent jack shit. I only said his style generally counters Movie's style. You can talk about other players who play the same way, whatever.
As for the "skimping on defense" I'm just going to have to point you to recent ZvP games again. Zergs are much more conservative and willing to spend resources on defenses than before. Whereas in the earlier days of 3hatch lair -> hydra builds sunks were something that was tried to be avoided, building a minimum of one sunk at the nat and the third is an automated process in modern ZvP with the 3hatch lair builds now. To say, "zergs have since skimped on defense as now it's all about hydra rushes," is just untrue, both in the skimping defense accusation and of hydra rushes, again which if you've actually been paying attention you would have realized that the 3hatch lair builds have become much more diverse.
And why Movie's PvZ has started to go down hill. You are right, zergs are becoming more diverse than previously, after numerous protosses found timings at which zergs are vulnerable in their 3-base/5 hatch builds. Hence, the timings just aren't there as much as they used to be.
On July 09 2010 20:56 Kiante wrote: Once again movie shows how terrible he is
lol...Movie is among the best PvZers in the world. Jaedong just raped him.
And why?
Because PvZ is imbalanced. It's no use denying or using semantics anymore, ever since sim cities were perfected a toss win needs miracles or invisible ninjas.
And because Sair/Reaver stopped working against JD since Bisu vs JD on andromeda, seriously, it's almost auto loss against JD, but on maps like these it's not like they have better choices.
Recently it seemed like Toss were starting to look a little better but JDvP is ridiculous.
On July 10 2010 12:18 shawster wrote: fireguyx are you serious? i mean logically most of your posts are... fail.
stuff like not knowing what 9pool is, using burrowed lings and great invented sim city is..
take our comments to heart and think before you post, theres a reason why people are treating you as an idiot
You fail if you think I'm going to take your messages to the heart. I already have admitted I'm not too knowledge about SC so your insults are meaningless. Okay I shouldn't have posted and tried to discredit Jaedong's win, but that was more about me being a fan of Movie and I was hoping to see Jaedong knocked out of the OSL again.
alright do whatever you want, but just be ready for insults because what you say is wrong.
Gee, you guys are being kind of hard on FireGuyX. He's just trying to contribute; he might make mistakes, but he hasn't taken an arrogant attitude: he's admitted that he doesn't know everything about SC. I've got no problem with people criticizing the content of his posts, but there's really no need to be so personal about it.
Besides, although I remember when Fireguy's first posts were occasionally...ignorant, which people are still holding against him, his posting has improved a lot, and actually, his posts here did make a fair point: Movie's PvZ style is very aggressive, very heavy on the archon-zealot push (at a point in the "metagame" when few other PvZ'ers are playing that way), and that makes a zerg Sim City particularly important against him. Sure, Zergs have been making those for a long time, but the difference between a good sim city and a bad one is particularly crucial against movie. Jaedong makes good ones.
I'm not saying there was nothing to criticize in FGX's post: clearly he was reaching too far when he tried to add historical context, but in any case, it doesn't hurt to be civil when you criticize someone, and it makes everyone more cheerful. MHO.
On July 10 2010 10:47 koreasilver wrote: No, you do not understand the game.
That's your opinion.
But it's also the truth.
Yup it's the undeniable truth I must accept in TL. *sarcasm*.
I understand the game, I know what's going on, I know who's winning, and I do recognize some builts when I read the other TL users comments.
It's not like I can't tell who's low on econ, and how much resources X player lost, etc. Again I'll admit I don't fully understand it, but I know when X player is in trouble, etc, etc.
The problem is you admit you don't know as much about other people and when you try to make these big descriptive posts about the complex mechanics of the game, people call you out on not knowing as much as you act like you know. You then backtrack and say you know enough to justify your statements, but much more experienced and vetted forumers continue to correct you. In spite of accepting that you could be wrong about the mechanics of the game (The evo/hatch/hydra wall on the sunken colony has been popular for the last 3 years, man, this is nothing new), you steadfastly ignore the point and take issue with people being sarcastic which, let's be honest, isn't that big a deal.
It's okay to be wrong about things, especially in a game as complex as this. You seem to go on these ten post, massive wall of text tirades whenever someone disagrees with you until you finally HAVE to accept it because there's like 5 people telling you what's up. Just suck it up and take the critique instead of getting all uppity at first.
On July 11 2010 23:42 qrs wrote: Gee, you guys are being kind of hard on FireGuyX. He's just trying to contribute; he might make mistakes, but he hasn't taken an arrogant attitude: he's admitted that he doesn't know everything about SC. I've got no problem with people criticizing the content of his posts, but there's really no need to be so personal about it.
Besides, although I remember when Fireguy's first posts were occasionally...ignorant, which people are still holding against him, his posting has improved a lot, and actually, his posts here did make a fair point: Movie's PvZ style is very aggressive, very heavy on the archon-zealot push (at a point in the "metagame" when few other PvZ'ers are playing that way), and that makes a zerg Sim City particularly important against him. Sure, Zergs have been making those for a long time, but the difference between a good sim city and a bad one is particularly crucial against movie. Jaedong makes good ones.
I'm not saying there was nothing to criticize in FGX's post: clearly he was reaching too far when he tried to add historical context, but in any case, it doesn't hurt to be civil when you criticize someone, and it makes everyone more cheerful. MHO.
I always wondered why Bisu, Stork, and many other protoss don't use a unit composition of archons and zealots early in the game, although Jangbi recently was successful with that unit composition against Hoejja. Movie still falters under pressure despite playing over 130 games. Maybe he needs to use more goons to break the zerg sim-city wall, I don't know.
Movie had the lead against Jaedong in G2 (when Jaedong failed with the hydra push), but Movie didn't know how to capitalize with the lead. If he just pushed with his reaver and his remaining units after the failed hydra push he would have won G2.
On July 11 2010 23:42 qrs wrote: Gee, you guys are being kind of hard on FireGuyX. He's just trying to contribute; he might make mistakes, but he hasn't taken an arrogant attitude: he's admitted that he doesn't know everything about SC. I've got no problem with people criticizing the content of his posts, but there's really no need to be so personal about it.
Besides, although I remember when Fireguy's first posts were occasionally...ignorant, which people are still holding against him, his posting has improved a lot, and actually, his posts here did make a fair point: Movie's PvZ style is very aggressive, very heavy on the archon-zealot push (at a point in the "metagame" when few other PvZ'ers are playing that way), and that makes a zerg Sim City particularly important against him. Sure, Zergs have been making those for a long time, but the difference between a good sim city and a bad one is particularly crucial against movie. Jaedong makes good ones.
I'm not saying there was nothing to criticize in FGX's post: clearly he was reaching too far when he tried to add historical context, but in any case, it doesn't hurt to be civil when you criticize someone, and it makes everyone more cheerful. MHO.
I always wondered why Bisu, Stork, and many other protoss don't use a unit composition of archons and zealots early in the game, although Jangbi recently was successful with that unit composition against Hoejja. Movie still falters under pressure despite playing over 130 games. Maybe he needs to use more goons to break the sim-city wall, I don't know.
Movie had the lead against Jaedong in G2 (when Jaedong failed with the hydra) push, but Movie didn't know how to capitalize with the lead. If he just pushed with the reaver and the remaining units after the failed hydra push he would have won G2.
Archons and zealots are weak against large numbers of lurkers, and it really doesn't give you enough gas for templar. Goon/templar with some zealots is a pretty standard and effective army composition. Reavers and archons also gain effectiveness in the late game, where you can afford it.
On July 12 2010 06:42 Djabanete wrote: Must post in this thread.
Movie invented the Movie Build. Great learned how to beat the Movie Build, and Jaedong studied Great's game and learned how to beat Movie too. Bisu and Jangbi got good at PvZ by doing the anti-anti-Movie Build, but their micro is still worse than Movie's.
You are so pathetic, you can actually sig what I said? That's not even the context to how said it. I said zerg sim-city should be called "how to beat movie" (ie movie build). Of course a loser like would make a big deal about it, but by all means sig it and cherish it, it makes you look like a fool.
EPT
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