tiebreakers will be on at 16:30 sunday, right after proleague.
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Intro: Out of the 16 players who made it into the Korean Air Starleague, 15 have a chance to win it. The one and only player who's been eliminated for sure is Kwanro, and we only have one day of matches until that pool of 15 is narrowed down to 8.
Who's already guaranteed a spot? BaBy, ZerO, and fOrGG will be advancing no matter what.
With the potential for tiebreakers in all 4 groups, it could be a very long night.
"Strap yourselves in, boys."
Tiebreaker Format: If 3 players end up tied in group standings, the 3 tied players each play each other once for a total of 3 games. If one player goes 2-0, he advances. If two players are needed, the player who went 1-1 advances as well. If all 3 players go 1-1, there is another tiebreaker with the same format.
I don't see anyone but Flash or Kal advancing from this group no matter who wins this game. But I have to pick a winner, and when in doubt, pick Kwanro.
Baby is the better player but Movie's shown strong carrier play on EotS, and I think the map imba will carry him to victory. This is NOT a CJ fanboy pick.
Great Barrier Reef is basically El Nino, and ZerO's muta micro is a lot better than Shine's. Pure is solid and beat Calm, but Match Point is much better for PvZ than GBR.
so if there ends up being 3 or 4 tiebreakers will they all be played right after these games? if so then we could end up with 5 or 6 hours of starcraft
Tiebreaker Format: If 3 players end up tied in group standings, the 3 tied players each play each other once for a total of 3 games. If one player goes 2-0, he advances. If two players are needed, the player who went 1-1 advances as well. If all 3 players go 1-1, there is another tiebreaker with the same format.
if zero loses to pure then who would he be facing as C2 or whatever? why wouldn't he just lose his game, hes guaranteed to advance anyway lolz and he gets to fuck calm and fantasy over haha
On April 16 2010 12:27 alffla wrote: if zero loses to pure then who would he be facing as C2 or whatever? why wouldn't he just lose his game, hes guaranteed to advance anyway lolz and he gets to fuck calm and fantasy over haha
He'd face a top seed if he was C2, so probably Baby, fOrGG, or Flash. It's randomized but judging from past Day 6 OPs we find out right after the games.
hyvaa>Kwanro - I want Kwanro to win, but hyvaa has been playing much better recently. There will be a tiebreaker, but I still think Kal and Flash will advance.
Stork, Kal and Calm seem like the only competition with Flash at the upper levels of this Starleague imo. ZerO is awesome but I'm more partial towards Calm even if he acts like Clam sometimes. And EffOrt is way better than Shine even if hes slumping. :/
Stork, Kal and Calm seem like the only competition with Flash at the upper levels of this Starleague imo. ZerO is awesome but I'm more partial towards Calm even if he acts like Clam sometimes. And EffOrt is way better than Shine even if hes slumping. :/
I predict the exact opposite of what you say. Flash and Kal will still win the tiebreaker for group A.
On April 16 2010 12:27 alffla wrote: if zero loses to pure then who would he be facing as C2 or whatever? why wouldn't he just lose his game, hes guaranteed to advance anyway lolz and he gets to fuck calm and fantasy over haha
You always want to be seed 1 so you don't have to play other Seed 1s, specifically Flash.
On April 16 2010 14:02 Djabanete wrote: Because of the OSL's retarded awesome group format, this could be one of the longest nights of starcraft ever. We could easily have 10+ games.
I thought the tiebreakers were going to be held on another day. Going to look that up.
Edit: the schedule says today or Sunday. I have no clue which groups go where, though
How will this work out. If Hyvaa wins, will flash and kal play directly after or will the other groups play their scheduled games first and then all the tiebreakers are played or what?
On April 16 2010 15:02 On_Slaught wrote: Effort should not be on any list where the words "best players" is located in any reference.
if you don't think Effort is better than Shine and go.go I don't know what to say
slump or no slump
Shine has beaten effort zvz both in the slump and before the slump. Effort isn't a lock if it goes to tie-breaker, in fact i'd say he's the underdog since shine's likely to beat him again, and he has to win twice in a row. this is all assuming shine loses against forgg
This is what real sport is about .. kicking the ass of your opponent even if you couldn't care less about winning or losing ... congrat. to Kwanro who honoured e-sport and sport in general.
Those ling drops were fun, but ZvZ is prolly the most rigid matchup -- swerving from the script will get you Kwanrollllled. hyvaa has shown lots of smarts in his games overall.
traditionally the tiebreakers are on another day. does anyone have absolute confirmation that they're actually tonight, or can point to an article that says it? it'd be really stupid to make players prepare and show up for a tiebreaker that may not need to happen.
On April 16 2010 18:58 Faranth wrote: It was fantastic to see Hyvaa try something different to freshen up ZvZ, even if it didn't work out in the end. Definitely impressed.
agree, but as someone said ... ZvZ is pretty rigid ...
On April 16 2010 18:55 nodule wrote: kwanro played hard for a guy with no reason to win
Not going 0-3 is still a reason to win, regardless of this season's OSL. His performance still affects his kespa rank and ELO.
For individual league Kespa ranking, whether you advance or not is what matters, not your match score. Kwanro wasn't going to advance either way; all he had on the line was pride.
On April 16 2010 19:05 phaleos wrote: What difference does C1 and C2 make? Coz if C1 and C2 are the same doesn't that mean there's no need for Baby to try? coz he will advance anyways
Baby has a 1/3 chance of playing Flash in the Ro8 if he loses this game, and a 0 chance of playing Flash if he wins.
On April 16 2010 19:05 phaleos wrote: What difference does C1 and C2 make? Coz if C1 and C2 are the same doesn't that mean there's no need for Baby to try? coz he will advance anyways
The difference is the next opponent your have to face. #1 vs #2 of other group etc
On April 16 2010 18:55 nodule wrote: kwanro played hard for a guy with no reason to win
Not going 0-3 is still a reason to win, regardless of this season's OSL. His performance still affects his kespa rank and ELO.
For individual league Kespa ranking, whether you advance or not is what matters, not your match score. Kwanro wasn't going to advance either way; all he had on the line was pride.
On April 16 2010 19:05 phaleos wrote: What difference does C1 and C2 make? Coz if C1 and C2 are the same doesn't that mean there's no need for Baby to try? coz he will advance anyways
The difference is the next opponent your have to face. #1 vs #2 of other group etc
for example if you win you face Flash, you lose you face somebody else
Movie pushed towards baby's third to kill the 2 tanks, lost quite a few goons though. Movie pulls back, baby now resieging to hit movies tech once again
Baby wasted his scans killing one pylon, leaving his slow push ridiculously vulnerable. Movie up to four bases, but Baby trying to kill it with 2 tanks + vults...
Baby comes out way ahead in that exchange. Movie lost a bunch of goons to take down an armory; Baby took down a whole base with two tanks and a handful of vults.
i will never understand while stupid P keep recalling in main instead than into expansion ... really it's a way of just wasting units and let your opponent come back from the worst situation ... RECALL ON THE FUCKING EXP and SHUT IT DOWN!
On April 16 2010 19:31 Xeln4g4 wrote: i will never understand while stupid P keep recalling in main instead than into expansion ... really it's a way of just wasting units and let your opponent come back from the worst situation ... RECALL ON THE FUCKING EXP and SHUT IT DOWN!
Protoss players just aren't that smart on average. Just how they keep stasising the front-troops to create an invulnerable wall for the back tanks (like movie also did this game)
Movie is slowly running out of resources. He needs to rescure top top again, but Baby's doing a good job of using vults to stop the expos from going up.
Movie breaks the third, but is stuck on three bases himself. He keeps preventing Baby from mining for a little while + killing a few SCVs, but Movie is going to mine out first unless he can get a fourth to stick...
Hahaha, archons break Baby's third. Protoss is funny with low minerals. (And Baby's mass vultures out on the map leaves him few vultures to defend his bases --> archons much more effective than normal.)
man this game is exasperating me ... i hate T so much they fucking never die, little bitch they always repair the hell out of everything ... JUST DIE and let movie get through!!!
Baby lost so many troops to the mass stasis. Just a handfull of gols left and he wont be able to set up another base. Seems like the carriers might save movie
not trying to speculate that baby threw that game, but eliminating stork isn't a bad idea. how does OSL do the round of 8 these days? baby will now advance 2nd from his group
wow, that was an extremely exciting game. Movie kept on attacking baby's expos, much like Terran would do to Protoss. mix in some nice flanks to take out expos and attacking economy and a sublime tech switch timing and Movie makes it into ro8. He really deserved that win.
12 nex into carrier is the only way this terrible P can win.
It's the last big flank that won movie the game. His carrier switch actually almost costed him 12, but thanks to a lot of statis he could defend it and even shut down baby's 11. If he just sticked to ground he could prevent baby from taking 11 all the way till baby'd run out. By switching to carriers he opened a window there, giving away unit advantage. Good thing he had so much statis saved, but if he'd like, eat some epms, it'd be a close call.
umm how did moviie get so ahead in his macro. It looked like either he became a macro god from time to time, or baby just stoped playing. Did baby throw this to get rid of Storku..? :/
So how did Baby end up losing this game? He was 30+ supply ahead at several moments in the midgame. Should he have pushed out earlier instead of playing defensively?
What the hell are you all talking about, BaBy played brilliantly the entire game until the big break at 11, he was dropping, denying nexuses and raping Movie's probes the entire goddamn game, while defending from recalls.
The only reason Movie won was because of lucky 12 nex + carriers.
On April 16 2010 19:57 Lann555 wrote: So how did Baby end up losing this game? He was 30+ supply ahead at several moments in the midgame. Should he have pushed out earlier instead of playing defensively?
Units that kill everything, stasis and carriers :|
BaBy should have expanded earlier to the top expos though.
Gotta hand it to Movie though - he was even/behind in supply for a lot of this game and still pulled it out. That was a really, really, really entertaining game.
On April 16 2010 19:57 Lann555 wrote: So how did Baby end up losing this game? He was 30+ supply ahead at several moments in the midgame. Should he have pushed out earlier instead of playing defensively?
He lost this game because he refused to defend against arbiters.
Very few turrets, less than 10 goliaths until the carrier switch, and less than 5 EMPs is not called defending against arbiters. Its fortunate for Baby that a lot of Movie's stasis ended up being badly placed.
Not dealing with arbiters is a surefire way of losing the game.
On April 16 2010 19:56 Elroi wrote: umm how did moviie get so ahead in his macro. It looked like either he became a macro god from time to time, or baby just stoped playing. Did baby throw this to get rid of Storku..? :/
Movie always had impressive macro. He's one of the top protoss regarding macro. Why do you think his hangbang attacks put so many zergs off guard?
On April 16 2010 19:54 Jackal03 wrote: movie's out, i'm so happy
He is not out. Movie stays in.
On April 16 2010 19:53 okum wrote: GG indeed. Amazing that Baby survived on basically one mining base for so long.
He was on 3 base. The fact that he lifted so often came at the cost of many recalls, which before the carrier switch one could say was not profiting him. BaBy had that until he Movie took out his units at 11, and switched to carriers.
As far as 12nex goes, thanks to probe snipes baby literally took 3rd earlier than movie did. Even though movie went for fast arb, it's still not supposed to be like that. Moreover, before baby did anything about using emps, movie pulled off a lot of successfull recalls. Baby did a great job with harrass, though - it did so much damage that he ended up ahead for a while.
On April 16 2010 19:57 jalstar wrote: Baby wouldn't throw this game, there's a chance that he'll have to play Flash in the round of 8 now
it was obviously not thrown. Baby played fantastic. Taking 11 isn't easy. The only fault that I saw was the he was behind on upgrades. Only 2-0 30 minutes into the game.
On April 16 2010 19:57 jalstar wrote: Baby wouldn't throw this game, there's a chance that he'll have to play Flash in the round of 8 now
it was obviously not thrown. Baby played fantastic. Taking 11 isn't easy. The only fault that I saw was the he was behind on upgrades. Only 2-0 30 minutes into the game.
Really? Movie made so many grave errors during this game and he should be slapped for trying to make mass archon vs terran =p
The only reason he did it was he was on 3 depleted gas but nearly no mins. That, and they float over mines and slaughter mass SCVs.
And in the end those recalls did pretty good damage.
Also anyone remember winners league semis ace match vs Leta last year? PvT archons lead him to victory
No, he just had an abundance of gas at some point. I guess he felt it more appropriate to spend all of that on Archons rather than HT's. Either way they are good way to balance out -min/+gas imbalance.
those archons put into the recalls really made those recalls worth it. Without being emped, they can take quite a few tank shots to get into range and slaughter the tanks. That and they do pretty good damage on the CCs and SCVs
On April 16 2010 19:57 Lann555 wrote: So how did Baby end up losing this game? He was 30+ supply ahead at several moments in the midgame. Should he have pushed out earlier instead of playing defensively?
He lost this game because he refused to defend against arbiters.
Baby was slow to emp a few times, but he couldn't really get many goliaths, because he chose the positionally advantageous 6 mineral only + drop ship play. And he did push early using 6, it was blocked well by movie.
I personally think what it came down to was slow EMP's, and letting Movie expand to 12.
Baby was unable to EMP effectively which allowed Movie to recall his way into the game. Baby was not in a bad spot, they were tied in psy for the majority of the match. If Baby was able to stop more of Movie's recalls with EMP he probably wins. However he only prevented one if Im not mistaken.
Baby did a good job of stopping top right on multiple occasions, but he never capitalized on that advantage. He was never able to consistently hold any bases, and after he let top right go up without any comparable economic advantage of his own, it was pretty much over.
Damn, that was such an awful defense against arbiters, Baby was lucky Movie's so awful himself with said arbiters. But when he stopped harassing those top-right expos, that sealed the deal for him, he let Movie come back, adn thus deprived us of Hwasin.
On April 16 2010 19:57 Lann555 wrote: So how did Baby end up losing this game? He was 30+ supply ahead at several moments in the midgame. Should he have pushed out earlier instead of playing defensively?
He had a ton of vultures, but very few tanks when he were ahead. For some reason he didn't get a refinery at 9 for like 5-10 minutes, which cost him both in upgrades and tanks. Can't say he did too well with EMP's and exping either.
On April 16 2010 20:03 NeoOmega wrote: I will repeat myself
Movie's Arbiters >>>>> Baby's Science Vessels.
Baby was unable to EMP effectively which allowed Movie to recall his way into the game. Baby was not in a bad spot, they were tied in psy for the majority of the match. If Baby was able to stop more of Movie's recalls with EMP he probably wins. However he only prevented one if Im not mistaken.
Movie's arbiters were so effective because he had so many of them, which was due to the fact that none of them died. Baby's inability to deal with these arbiters through very simple ways (such as lots of turrets, goliaths, more science vessels, etc) meant he couldn't hold onto any of his bases and he pretty much died right there.
He didn't have any EMPs because he didn't have a lot of science vessels to begin with.
On April 16 2010 20:02 nodule wrote: It's true that there were mistakes by both sides, but the game itself was quite tense and entertaining. Recommend it!
yeah, it was pretty good. I couldn't tell whether Movie was going to lose for sure, so I wouldn't want to call it an awesome comeback - however I do think there were some fairly bad moments for Movie, like he fail-called into 6, cowardly CC escapes and later comes back to resume mining, while 10 vults massacre all the probes at Movie's 1 oclock base. Ouch. But then Movie did what he could with the 3 oclock still left and made some decent plays and eventually got into a good position with 12, 1,and 3 mining. All in all quite tense before then. BaBy definitely threw away an advantage.
On April 16 2010 20:04 jalstar wrote: Movie wins with a 140 APM deficit
You could tell his plan was to multitask rather than to pump APM both when he double expoed at the top right and right after that when he went for archons instead of storm, it was his gameplan.
On April 16 2010 20:04 Severedevil wrote: Ya, Baby got ahead, but then allowed Movie to sit on 3 fresh mining bases instead of fast expanding himself, or moving out to kill Movie's stuff.
"fast expanding himself"
??
What base is Terran supposed to take after taking the 4 that Baby had, in a game where both players are constantly skirmishing?
Maybe Baby could have moved toward 11 earlier though he spent a lot of energy holding 6 until it was mined out. It's really hard to reinforce to 11 for T as well.
And Baby did a lot of damage to Movie's "3 fresh mining bases" repeatedly.
BaBy could have won if: 1. He built more turrets to counter arbiters. 2. Had better tank placement at 3 and 6 o'clock. 3. Secured another expansion at 10 when Movie's 1 came down.
On April 16 2010 20:04 Severedevil wrote: Ya, Baby got ahead, but then allowed Movie to sit on 3 fresh mining bases instead of fast expanding himself, or moving out to kill Movie's stuff.
"fast expanding himself"
??
What base is Terran supposed to take after taking the 4 that Baby had, in a game where both players are constantly skirmishing?
Maybe Baby could have moved toward 11 earlier though he spent a lot of energy holding 6 until it was mined out. It's really hard to reinforce to 11 for T as well.
And Baby did a lot of damage to Movie's "3 fresh mining bases" repeatedly.
Baby never set up a solid Arbiter defense at any real base, especially 6. He just let arbiters walk all over him, and as a result he could never fully establish 6.
But there was a period in the game where Movie was basically back down onto 3 base, and Baby didn't use that time to take 9 and secure it properly. It ended up being awhile before Baby was confident to take 9 and stopping the 1 arb that sat there the entire time.
On April 16 2010 20:04 Severedevil wrote: Ya, Baby got ahead, but then allowed Movie to sit on 3 fresh mining bases instead of fast expanding himself, or moving out to kill Movie's stuff.
"fast expanding himself"
??
What base is Terran supposed to take after taking the 4 that Baby had, in a game where both players are constantly skirmishing?
Maybe Baby could have moved toward 11 earlier though he spent a lot of energy holding 6 until it was mined out. It's really hard to reinforce to 11 for T as well.
And Baby did a lot of damage to Movie's "3 fresh mining bases" repeatedly.
Baby never set up a solid Arbiter defense at any real base, especially 6. He just let arbiters walk all over him, and as a result he could never fully establish 6.
But there was a period in the game where Movie was basically back down onto 3 base, and Baby didn't use that time to take 9 and secure it properly. It ended up being awhile before Baby was confident to take 9 and stopping the 1 arb that sat there the entire time.
I agree with your point, but that period in the game was way earlier than the part he was talking about ("3 fresh mining bases" meaning 2 o'clock, 1o'clock, and 12 o'clock").
On April 16 2010 20:04 Severedevil wrote: Ya, Baby got ahead, but then allowed Movie to sit on 3 fresh mining bases instead of fast expanding himself, or moving out to kill Movie's stuff.
"fast expanding himself"
??
What base is Terran supposed to take after taking the 4 that Baby had, in a game where both players are constantly skirmishing?
Maybe Baby could have moved toward 11 earlier though he spent a lot of energy holding 6 until it was mined out. It's really hard to reinforce to 11 for T as well.
And Baby did a lot of damage to Movie's "3 fresh mining bases" repeatedly.
Baby denied Movie a fourth for a very long time, but once Movie got his fourth established, he was always running on at least two of the three top-right bases at all times, and Baby's tank + dropship play was not cost effective.
If Baby couldn't take the upper left corner bases (I'm not at all convinced of this) then he needed to smash movie while he still had the supply advantage. You cannot expect moderate harassment to make up the difference between 1 mining base and 3 mining bases, particularly if you lose units during that harassment.
On April 16 2010 20:04 Severedevil wrote: Ya, Baby got ahead, but then allowed Movie to sit on 3 fresh mining bases instead of fast expanding himself, or moving out to kill Movie's stuff.
"fast expanding himself"
??
What base is Terran supposed to take after taking the 4 that Baby had, in a game where both players are constantly skirmishing?
Maybe Baby could have moved toward 11 earlier though he spent a lot of energy holding 6 until it was mined out. It's really hard to reinforce to 11 for T as well.
And Baby did a lot of damage to Movie's "3 fresh mining bases" repeatedly.
Baby never set up a solid Arbiter defense at any real base, especially 6. He just let arbiters walk all over him, and as a result he could never fully establish 6.
But there was a period in the game where Movie was basically back down onto 3 base, and Baby didn't use that time to take 9 and secure it properly. It ended up being awhile before Baby was confident to take 9 and stopping the 1 arb that sat there the entire time.
I agree with your point, but that period in the game was way earlier than the part he was talking about ("3 fresh mining bases" meaning 2 o'clock, 1o'clock, and 12 o'clock").
Hm? He was talking about Movie being able to take and hold 3 mining bases while Baby essentially took none. He never capitalized on his advantage. We might be talking past each other
On April 16 2010 20:10 Holgerius wrote: Once Baby learns how to deal with Arbiters properly he'll be a beast in TvP.
he also needs to make more tanks and less vultures
That's because Baby was simply hurting for gas during a good part of that game (6 being a mineral only base). His army composition was heavily skewed towards vultures, he had no goliaths, and he was behind on upgrades. He took 9 way too late -- in fact, with hindsight, his whole strategy of taking 6 to slowly push towards the Protoss may have backfired, since he was forced to defend countless attacks and was spread too thin.
Pure would have been fine if he had not chased the 5 hydras with 2 dts all the way into OV range and then stayed there until they died. That lost all control of his base, and prevented his cannons that were on the verge of finishing from going on. :/
On April 16 2010 20:27 SkelA wrote: ive lost to this strat once its so anoying you see hydra and mass 5-6 cannons on expo and he slow drop your ass ...
Yeah - and Zero knew he could get away with it because the Corsair is always so eager to scout to the Zergs base and snipe ovies. That was mistake #1. Mistake #2 came when he threw his DTs at the incoming dropping overlords to take the units out then and there. If he held back, his 3 canons could have finished before Zero would have been able to get his lords over there to scout the DTs. Third mistake, was letting his sair get killed by the hydras. He also should have canceled his last canon in the front of his base after the drop.
Ouch Pure's Corsair was just sitting at Zero's natural for the majority of the battle. Could have sniped some Overlords if he had been paying attention...
On April 16 2010 20:32 SubtleArt wrote: Lol poor Hwasin. Group with rising star Baby and PvT god Stork for OSL, BO3 with Flash for MSL. Is this guy jinxed or something?
Hwasin always faced the eventual winner in the MSL Ro16.
Can anyone tell me whats the connection between ForGG and The Foo Fighters "The Pretender?" They always use it in his intros, but I have no idea of the background on that.
On April 16 2010 20:36 Terakin wrote: Can anyone tell me whats the connection between ForGG and The Foo Fighters "The Pretender?" They always use it in his intros, but I have no idea of the background on that.
Arena MSL theme. The time where Forgg suddenly became the best terran in the world and crushed Kal, Flash, and Jaedong in series matches.
On April 16 2010 20:36 revy wrote: I could be mistaken but I thought they usually played tiebreakers immediately following and then announce the RO8 groups all on the same day.
yeah tiebreakers are gonna follow after the fourth match
On April 16 2010 20:36 Terakin wrote: Can anyone tell me whats the connection between ForGG and The Foo Fighters "The Pretender?" They always use it in his intros, but I have no idea of the background on that.
that was the song to the opening of the arena msl, which he ended up winning
How did Shine kill 3 groups of MnM and still end up in a bad position? ForGG displayed probably the worst progamer MnM micro we've seen this year. Wtf. 14 CC? TvZ is imbalanced?
On April 16 2010 21:01 SubtleArt wrote: How did Shine kill 3 groups of MnM and still end up in a bad position? ForGG displayed probably the worst progamer MnM micro we've seen this year. Wtf. 14 CC? TvZ is imbalanced?
A combination of Forgg having really good macro and Shine having some of the worst hive tech play ever.
On April 16 2010 21:01 SubtleArt wrote: How did Shine kill 3 groups of MnM and still end up in a bad position? ForGG displayed probably the worst progamer MnM micro we've seen this year. Wtf. 14 CC? TvZ is imbalanced?
forgg is all about macro. and damn, his macro was pretty unreal.
On April 16 2010 21:01 SubtleArt wrote: How did Shine kill 3 groups of MnM and still end up in a bad position? ForGG displayed probably the worst progamer MnM micro we've seen this year. Wtf. 14 CC? TvZ is imbalanced?
No, because Terrans have higher APM than any other race. That, and YOU try doing what ForGG does. Worst case scenario, blame the map.
On April 16 2010 21:01 Jackal03 wrote: what a terrible game, shine sucked so hard
On April 16 2010 21:01 We Are Here wrote: lol what a bad game from shine
I think I saw a different game I liked the +1 on the mutas, the almost-no-sunken-play and the defiler micro forGG played just a little better. Sick anticipation with his firebats vs swarm + position on bottom right (at the ramp vs zerlings)
On April 16 2010 21:01 SubtleArt wrote: How did Shine kill 3 groups of MnM and still end up in a bad position? ForGG displayed probably the worst progamer MnM micro we've seen this year. Wtf. 14 CC? TvZ is imbalanced?
Shine's position was fine, and then he let ForGG take a third and fourth unopposed. Oops.
Shine was dead when he decided to go four bases with 6 mutas defending. ForGG easily kept Shine's army down and killed him off. Shine didn't harass ForGG once. Pretty meh game.
On April 16 2010 21:05 Emon_ wrote: Shine was dead when he decided to go four bases with 6 mutas defending. ForGG easily kept Shine's army down and killed him off. Shine didn't harass ForGG once. Pretty meh game.
i wonder if shine realised that have drone saturation is only good when you can use it to build an army, not lose it bit by bit to forgg
On April 16 2010 21:05 Emon_ wrote: Shine was dead when he decided to go four bases with 6 mutas defending. ForGG easily kept Shine's army down and killed him off. Shine didn't harass ForGG once. Pretty meh game.
I think he played Uncle Scrooge strategy and tried to save up ridiculous amount of Gas for Ultralisks. Eventually he had only Lings and Swarm against Firebat mass. As some posters said above: + Show Spoiler +
shine only managed to kill the first two M&M groups by suffering large muta/ling casualties; he had to rebuild his muta force each time. This is also why he only had 3 left to morph into guardians when the time came.
Actually, that explains why he lost more than anything else. guards=gg
On April 16 2010 21:01 SubtleArt wrote: How did Shine kill 3 groups of MnM and still end up in a bad position? ForGG displayed probably the worst progamer MnM micro we've seen this year. Wtf. 14 CC? TvZ is imbalanced?
No, because Terrans have higher APM than any other race. That, and YOU try doing what ForGG does. Worst case scenario, blame the map.
I'm a terran player so don't worry I know all about the Bio APM but when you're a progamer the APM ceiling doesn't apply too much nowadays since they can all play at like 400 APM if they need / want to. I'm wondering if Shine has Kwanro syndrome of well thought and executed aggressive midgame play but Hive play that's an eyesore.
This is really similar to that Kwanro v Flash on roadrunner game. Kwanro does a really nice lurker attack that gives him a solid advantage but then decides it's fun to run lone ultras into tank clusters for the next 15 minutes.
On April 16 2010 21:01 SubtleArt wrote: How did Shine kill 3 groups of MnM and still end up in a bad position? ForGG displayed probably the worst progamer MnM micro we've seen this year. Wtf. 14 CC? TvZ is imbalanced?
Shine's position was fine, and then he let ForGG take a third and fourth unopposed. Oops.
Pretty much, as well as having no nydus canal at the 11 which let his third gas fall so easily without much of a fight. Couldn't do anything but roll over and die after that.
The mutalisks and guardians served their purpose, and he got up four bases and hive relatively cheaply and quickly. His build was okay, but his strategy and execution afterwards were sorely lacking.
On April 16 2010 21:05 Emon_ wrote: Shine was dead when he decided to go four bases with 6 mutas defending. ForGG easily kept Shine's army down and killed him off. Shine didn't harass ForGG once. Pretty meh game.
I think he played Uncle Scrooge strategy and tried to save up ridiculous amount of Gas for Ultralisks. Eventually he had only Lings and Swarm against Firebat mass. As some posters said above: + Show Spoiler +
MEH...
Yea looking back I think it was the overzealous ling attack that completly killed him. I saw 1 line firebat with 17 kills. Shine probably wasted at least 20ish lings in that attack, which is 10 drones, which is huuuuuuge.
Best possible results for me, but now fantasy and EffOrt need to step it up an deliver.
***
And as much as it sucks to have Stork out, I think in retrospect, Group B was the group of death. Movie is really coming into his own, and BaBy is finally sustaining good results.
I just noticed how stupid Kwanro is when I looked at the calendar.
He could have forced Flash to practice for tiebreakers on Sunday and thus make sure Flash doesn't practice enough for the ace game on Monday (Stars vs KT). Now KT will rape Stars and it's all Kwanro's fault!
On April 17 2010 00:43 Black Gun wrote: when will the tiebreakers be played?
From the previous page.
tiebreakers will be on at 16:30 sunday, right after proleague.
Glad to see that Kwanro won so that both Flash and Kal go through. It would be a travesty if hyvaa somehow managed to sneak trough to Ro8.
Too bad Movie beat Baby eliminating Stork. But well, at least a Toss qualified from group B so I can't complain.
I am looking forward to tie-breakers in group C. But group D is simply terrible. None of the players seems to be worth Ro8 with their current form. Effort is slumping and go.go and Shine are simply bad...
I think kwanro is slowly becoming my favorite zerg, although I hated him so much before. This guy just makes me LOL every time I watch. He is SERIOUSLY entertaining to watch!!! sorry JD, but IMO Zerg is a lot more fun to watch when you win (or lose) like Kwanro haha
having said that, I'm glad he's out of the OSL, Kwanro in the MSL finals almost made me lose all faith in starcraft
On April 17 2010 02:44 Wings wrote: I think kwanro is slowly becoming my favorite zerg, although I hated him so much before. This guy just makes me LOL every time I watch. He is SERIOUSLY entertaining to watch!!! sorry JD, but IMO Zerg is a lot more fun to watch when you win (or lose) like Kwanro haha
having said that, I'm glad he's out of the OSL, Kwanro in the MSL finals almost made me lose all faith in starcraft
You do know that hyvaa was the one who used drops right?
On April 17 2010 00:27 SuperArc wrote: I just noticed how stupid Kwanro is when I looked at the calendar.
He could have forced Flash to practice for tiebreakers on Sunday and thus make sure Flash doesn't practice enough for the ace game on Monday (Stars vs KT). Now KT will rape Stars and it's all Kwanro's fault!
Flash would probably win anyway so why not try to save himself while he can? I really don't like people throwing games also... even if it wasn't for flash.
seems like everything is set for flash´s golden mouse. usually teammates are dangerous opponents, but wasnt it told once that flash was something ridiculous like 80-1 in inhouse tvts?
imho the only other player left who could really defeat flash in a bo5 would be fantasy, but its rather unlikely he makes it out of the tiebreakers. imho if flash makes it out of the ro8, he got this virtually in the bag.
On April 17 2010 04:56 Black Gun wrote: seems like everything is set for flash´s golden mouse. usually teammates are dangerous opponents, but wasnt it told once that flash was something ridiculous like 80-1 in inhouse tvts?
imho the only other player left who could really defeat flash in a bo5 would be fantasy, but its rather unlikely he makes it out of the tiebreakers. imho if flash makes it out of the ro8, he got this virtually in the bag.
I'd say Zero, Movie, Kal and Baby have better chances than fantasy. All of them are performing pretty well now and could take games from flash although it's unlikely that they'll beat him in a Bo5.
On April 17 2010 04:56 Black Gun wrote: seems like everything is set for flash´s golden mouse. usually teammates are dangerous opponents, but wasnt it told once that flash was something ridiculous like 80-1 in inhouse tvts?
imho the only other player left who could really defeat flash in a bo5 would be fantasy, but its rather unlikely he makes it out of the tiebreakers. imho if flash makes it out of the ro8, he got this virtually in the bag.
I'd say Zero, Movie, Kal and Baby have better chances than fantasy. All of them are performing pretty well now and could take games from flash although it's unlikely that they'll beat him in a Bo5.
i dont think so. with the proper preparation i think fantasy is one of the most dangerous opponents in professional starcraft.
and flashs tvt hasnt looked invicible recently.....
On April 17 2010 04:56 Black Gun wrote: seems like everything is set for flash´s golden mouse. usually teammates are dangerous opponents, but wasnt it told once that flash was something ridiculous like 80-1 in inhouse tvts?
imho the only other player left who could really defeat flash in a bo5 would be fantasy, but its rather unlikely he makes it out of the tiebreakers. imho if flash makes it out of the ro8, he got this virtually in the bag.
I'd say Zero, Movie, Kal and Baby have better chances than fantasy. All of them are performing pretty well now and could take games from flash although it's unlikely that they'll beat him in a Bo5.
i dont think so. with the proper preparation i think fantasy is one of the most dangerous opponents in professional starcraft.
and flashs tvt hasnt looked invicible recently.....
I agree with Black Gun, if Fantasy just buckles downs and makes up some weird build to pass by the zergs, he has a chance. His tvp is top class so he won't have to worry about that and his tvt is excellent as well. If he can get past the zergs (which he can with his wacko builds) the chances of him winning this is a good 45%. Fantasy can be S-Class or Z-Class player depending on how shows up to play.
No way Flash loses a Bo5 to anyone in the OSL. No way. I could see some of them get lucky in a Bo3 though, but if he can just get past that stage he fucking will get his Golden Mouse.
Fuck, if you are gonna start bitching about 12 nexus and all that other shit, I am gonna start bitching about vultures, siege tanks, scans, turtling and repair.
On April 17 2010 04:56 Black Gun wrote: seems like everything is set for flash´s golden mouse. usually teammates are dangerous opponents, but wasnt it told once that flash was something ridiculous like 80-1 in inhouse tvts?
imho the only other player left who could really defeat flash in a bo5 would be fantasy, but its rather unlikely he makes it out of the tiebreakers. imho if flash makes it out of the ro8, he got this virtually in the bag.
I'd say Zero, Movie, Kal and Baby have better chances than fantasy. All of them are performing pretty well now and could take games from flash although it's unlikely that they'll beat him in a Bo5.
i dont think so. with the proper preparation i think fantasy is one of the most dangerous opponents in professional starcraft.
and flashs tvt hasnt looked invicible recently.....
I agree with Black Gun, if Fantasy just buckles downs and makes up some weird build to pass by the zergs, he has a chance. His tvp is top class so he won't have to worry about that and his tvt is excellent as well. If he can get past the zergs (which he can with his wacko builds) the chances of him winning this is a good 45%. Fantasy can be S-Class or Z-Class player depending on how shows up to play.
This could be true, it's just that I don't feel fantasy is his old self anymore. And even if he was his old self it would still not give him 45% chance vs flash in a Bo5 i think...
On April 17 2010 06:50 lone_hydra wrote: Fuck, if you are gonna start bitching about 12 nexus and all that other shit, I am gonna start bitching about vultures, siege tanks, scans, turtling and repair.
scans are imba, should be nullified. Protoss needs more ways to hide their tech!!
Flash won't even make it to the semis this year. I know that he is playing ridiculous currently, but i think the magic ran out in the Round of 16. And if he has to play a protoss, i think his chances are even worse.
On April 17 2010 07:26 StylishVODs wrote:
scans are imba, should be nullified. Protoss needs more ways to hide their tech!!
Not really, scans have to regenerate and they cant move, so if you just put tech elsewhere that isnt right on top of your nexus, he may not see it...
On April 17 2010 07:48 Rkie wrote: Flash won't even make it to the semis this year. I know that he is playing ridiculous currently, but i think the magic ran out in the Round of 16. And if he has to play a protoss, i think his chances are even worse.
Flash doesn't need magic, he's just normally ridiculous like this.
Since Flash finished as #1 in his group, my understanding is that in the quarterfinals he can't play Zero, Forgg or Movie. Out of the remainder, Flash could conceivably lose against Calm or Baby. Fantasy looks very weak right now, as does Effort. And no one else is worth mentioning, I think.
On April 17 2010 07:48 Rkie wrote: Flash won't even make it to the semis this year. I know that he is playing ridiculous currently, but i think the magic ran out in the Round of 16. And if he has to play a protoss, i think his chances are even worse.
I gotta say I agree, Flash is only 19-2 against Protoss in his last 21 games for a 90.48% winrate. On top of this, he's been padding his numbers by going 4-0 vs. BeSt, 2-0 vs. Stork, and 2-0 vs. Kal. Come on Flash, your PvT is embarrassing...
EPT![[image loading]](http://i39.tinypic.com/20i9xs2.jpg)
Kwanro, and we only have one day of matches until that pool of 15 is narrowed down to 8.
BaBy, ![[image loading]](http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/4/3704/thumb_300x150/dropship_183.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/140.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7002/fightingspirit.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/583.jpg)
Kal advances as A2, hyvaa and Kwanro are eliminated.![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/575.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2320/eyeofthestorm.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/564.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7435/greatbarrierreef.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/174.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/207.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7068/matchpoint.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/623.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/2q022o3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/2utp76b.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i44.tinypic.com/afhq89.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060605090416/starwars/images/d/d4/The_Emperor_And_the_Baby.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i25.tinypic.com/25iambd.jpg)
