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[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs eSTRO - Page 26

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
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Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
December 20 2009 06:07 GMT
#501
What misinformation is this? Reavers are better than Templar during the early game with smaller army skirmishes.
Jaedong
MuffinDude
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3837 Posts
December 20 2009 06:08 GMT
#502
On December 20 2009 15:05 sharkeyanti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 15:03 MuffinDude wrote:
On December 20 2009 15:02 lone_hydra wrote:
On December 20 2009 14:59 usopsama wrote:
Stork is unstoppable right now. Unless you are a zerg on an imbalance amp (El Nino), there is no way in hell you can beat Stork, not even if you are Flash!


More Shine hate ftw. I still don't hate Shine. As long as Stork beats him in the OSl, he's still my man. But if he wins... I am gonna troll the shit out of the LR thread.

How is this shine hate? El nino is hella imba pvz. its like 2 - 9. Thats as imba as a map gets.


Tears of the Moon?

Thats like 2 - 9 too. So many zvp imba maps.
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
lone_hydra
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada1460 Posts
December 20 2009 06:08 GMT
#503
On December 20 2009 15:03 MuffinDude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 15:02 lone_hydra wrote:
On December 20 2009 14:59 usopsama wrote:
Stork is unstoppable right now. Unless you are a zerg on an imbalance amp (El Nino), there is no way in hell you can beat Stork, not even if you are Flash!


More Shine hate ftw. I still don't hate Shine. As long as Stork beats him in the OSl, he's still my man. But if he wins... I am gonna troll the shit out of the LR thread.

How is this shine hate? El nino is hella imba pvz. its like 2 - 9. Thats as imba as a map gets.


I remember on that map, Stork lost to Shine so I naturally thought he was referring to Shine. My mistake, it does look imba. Funny thing is Bisu beat Shine on this map of all places.
Fav Gamers: 2)Stork 5)Bisu
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
December 20 2009 06:19 GMT
#504
On December 20 2009 15:07 Avidkeystamper wrote:
What misinformation is this? Reavers are better than Templar during the early game with smaller army skirmishes.

this. Reaver splash is far more devastating in the early - mid game skirmishes
late game when its harder to dodge storms; THEN storms are more effective than reavers
cw)minsean(ru
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
December 20 2009 06:22 GMT
#505
On December 20 2009 15:01 .risingdragoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 15:00 Holgerius wrote:
On December 20 2009 14:55 .risingdragoon wrote:
lost on harassment

NOT ENOUGH upmagic, you gotta harass like a muthafucka if you gonna mech dude!!! slow expand's just too slow for tvz!!!!!!

Meh, you don't really have to harass a lot with mech if you can just turtle properly. It's possible to let the Zerg take all the expos he wants and still win the game.


rofl

what medieval mech is this? yea, maybe long time ago that was possible, before hyvaa beat fantasy on medusa sometime last year when he did the same basic things to win

these days you gotta harass, harass, and keep on harassing

I haven't played with mech a lot on HBR, but on Desti it is still very much viable to just turtle up and slowly, slowly creep forward to eventually take out the side expos (and then the Zerg will starve to death). Not much need for harassment at all.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
December 20 2009 06:24 GMT
#506
On December 20 2009 15:22 Holgerius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 15:01 .risingdragoon wrote:
On December 20 2009 15:00 Holgerius wrote:
On December 20 2009 14:55 .risingdragoon wrote:
lost on harassment

NOT ENOUGH upmagic, you gotta harass like a muthafucka if you gonna mech dude!!! slow expand's just too slow for tvz!!!!!!

Meh, you don't really have to harass a lot with mech if you can just turtle properly. It's possible to let the Zerg take all the expos he wants and still win the game.


rofl

what medieval mech is this? yea, maybe long time ago that was possible, before hyvaa beat fantasy on medusa sometime last year when he did the same basic things to win

these days you gotta harass, harass, and keep on harassing

I haven't played with mech a lot on HBR, but on Desti it is still very much viable to just turtle up and slowly, slowly creep forward to eventually take out the side expos (and then the Zerg will starve to death). Not much need for harassment at all.

i agree completely
go watch some Flash TvZ's on this map.
he plays it like a TvP . when he hits that huge 200 / 200 3/3/3 he moves out
swarm wont do shit
cw)minsean(ru
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
December 20 2009 06:31 GMT
#507
On December 20 2009 15:06 baubo wrote:

Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 14:58 .risingdragoon wrote:


On December 20 2009 13:44 RoieTRS wrote:
I recomend stork vs gosI[flying] as an example of how storms aren't necesarily better than reavers, it just makes them obsolete for the most part, but definitely not useless.


that's completely wrong

if the game was even templars would RAPE reavers

flying had to storm zealot/dragoons, when the reavers showed up he had nothing left


Indeed. Reavers are never better than templars. Harder to micro, slower in firing rate. Easier to kill. Flying lost that battle because Stork had more zealots and better dragoon arc. Which made up for his disadvantageous tech tree.




Temps do an abstract damage, because they don't actually do any damage, only storm. Reavers do real damage, and it can only help to have reavers. If you have reavers, you pretty much have a shuttle too, and gives you the ability to harass, especially useful because the map was outsider... pretty much made for reavers.
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
PangO
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Chile1870 Posts
December 20 2009 06:39 GMT
#508
On December 20 2009 14:59 usopsama wrote:
Stork is unstoppable right now. Unless you are a zerg on an imbalance amp (El Nino), there is no way in hell you can beat Stork, not even if you are Flash!


Yea, he will definetly win the serie against Shine !
In Economics, the majority is always wrong. aka: MattRz
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
December 20 2009 07:15 GMT
#509
On December 20 2009 15:07 Avidkeystamper wrote:
What misinformation is this? Reavers are better than Templar during the early game with smaller army skirmishes.


When is there ever a situation where you had small army with high templars? You can't even support hts on one base economy. Flying's army was about the smallest as it can get once a player reaches storm tech.

On December 20 2009 15:31 RoieTRS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 15:06 baubo wrote:

On December 20 2009 14:58 .risingdragoon wrote:


On December 20 2009 13:44 RoieTRS wrote:
I recomend stork vs gosI[flying] as an example of how storms aren't necesarily better than reavers, it just makes them obsolete for the most part, but definitely not useless.


that's completely wrong

if the game was even templars would RAPE reavers

flying had to storm zealot/dragoons, when the reavers showed up he had nothing left


Indeed. Reavers are never better than templars. Harder to micro, slower in firing rate. Easier to kill. Flying lost that battle because Stork had more zealots and better dragoon arc. Which made up for his disadvantageous tech tree.




Temps do an abstract damage, because they don't actually do any damage, only storm. Reavers do real damage, and it can only help to have reavers. If you have reavers, you pretty much have a shuttle too, and gives you the ability to harass, especially useful because the map was outsider... pretty much made for reavers.


I'm not sure what you're implying.

1. How is storm damage not real damage?
2. Why won't you have a shuttle with templar tech when all players tech to observers?
3. Why is reaver harass better than templar drop?
Meh
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
December 20 2009 07:23 GMT
#510
he meant that the templar doesnt have a normal attack, only storm, which doesnt do guaranteed damage. with a reaver you're gonna have little bombs going off every few seconds guaranteed. its variable how much they kill cuz of splash, but not nearly as much as storm, and you dont have to wait for 75 mana to get it.

he wasnt talking about tech, but the shuttle itself, since reavers are essentially useless without a shuttle. templars are just fine walking along with an army so you dont necessarily have shuttles if you focused on hts.

he didnt say reaver harass was better than temp drop, just said that reaver harass is really good on outsider, which it is because the setup makes it very hard to chase down shuttles and you can just fly around killing shit, instead of storm drops which are more of a one big shot and run away kind of thing.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
MuffinDude
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3837 Posts
December 20 2009 07:27 GMT
#511
1. Storms are just storms, it works best in clusters, therefore its more optimal in late game pvp. I think he means that in between storms ht can't attack.

2. Not everyone techs to obs really early. If you watched flying play, his obs tech was really late, so its not like his shuttle is going to get there any earlier.

3. In reaver harass, you can most likely keep ur reavers alive. =) Storm drops might kill more though.
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-20 07:30:01
December 20 2009 07:29 GMT
#512
Such a mundane argument. FBH, what do you say about this?

[image loading]


I see... So then, what would you do to these morons?

[image loading]


Just as I thought.

It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
MuffinDude
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3837 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-20 07:42:28
December 20 2009 07:34 GMT
#513
On December 20 2009 16:29 Mystlord wrote:
Such a mundane argument. FBH, what do you say about this?

[image loading]


I see... So then, what would you do to these morons?

[image loading]


Just as I thought.


Fbh's build was pretty clever though. 3 fac +1 weapon mass goliath build. And action played really greedy getting too many drones.

OH quick, before anyone makes this lame joke.

[image loading]

FALCON PUNCH!!!

Oh u labeled the file fbh falcon punch. I fail.
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
December 20 2009 07:36 GMT
#514
--- Nuked ---
Speake
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States494 Posts
December 20 2009 07:49 GMT
#515
Damn, really is 9-1 in his last 10 tvp
tQ.Speake
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
December 20 2009 07:57 GMT
#516
On December 20 2009 16:23 IdrA wrote:
he meant that the templar doesnt have a normal attack, only storm, which doesnt do guaranteed damage. with a reaver you're gonna have little bombs going off every few seconds guaranteed. its variable how much they kill cuz of splash, but not nearly as much as storm, and you dont have to wait for 75 mana to get it.

he wasnt talking about tech, but the shuttle itself, since reavers are essentially useless without a shuttle. templars are just fine walking along with an army so you dont necessarily have shuttles if you focused on hts.

he didnt say reaver harass was better than temp drop, just said that reaver harass is really good on outsider, which it is because the setup makes it very hard to chase down shuttles and you can just fly around killing shit, instead of storm drops which are more of a one big shot and run away kind of thing.


I still don't see how any of these reasoning show that reaver tech can be better than templar tech. You're on a pro team. Do the protosses on CJ really think Stork's tech order in the game isn't disadvantageous to Flying's?
Meh
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
December 20 2009 08:06 GMT
#517
if you dont see how those reasons show that reaver is better than ht for early battles its not really worth explaining it to you any more. read the first paragraph until it sinks in.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
December 20 2009 08:18 GMT
#518
I'm not saying templars are better than reavers early game. But that's an academic assertion because of how high the tech is in of itself. Hence it is almost by definition impossible to apply to early game situations.

Flying BO was basically super-fast HTs off of two bases. Yet he pushed out after 6 gateways. Early battles simply don't apply to templars.
Meh
lone_hydra
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada1460 Posts
December 20 2009 08:53 GMT
#519
On December 20 2009 16:36 stormtemplar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 16:29 Mystlord wrote:
Such a mundane argument. FBH, what do you say about this?

[image loading]


I see... So then, what would you do to these morons?

[image loading]


Just as I thought.




You sir just won the thread,


^_^

^o^

^.^

fbh rules, bonjwa of entertainment
Fav Gamers: 2)Stork 5)Bisu
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
December 20 2009 09:00 GMT
#520
On December 20 2009 17:18 baubo wrote:
I'm not saying templars are better than reavers early game. But that's an academic assertion because of how high the tech is in of itself. Hence it is almost by definition impossible to apply to early game situations.

Flying BO was basically super-fast HTs off of two bases. Yet he pushed out after 6 gateways. Early battles simply don't apply to templars.

relatively early game, early mid game.
its obvious what he was talking about, dont quibble over terminology
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
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