• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:45
CET 09:45
KST 17:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win0Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)25
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
China Business Email List – Connect with Verified General Managers Mailing List – Connect with Key $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open!
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Which foreign pros are considered the best? Gypsy to Korea Fantasy's Q&A video
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Lost love spell caster in Spain +27 74 116 2667
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1929 users

[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs eSTRO - Page 26

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 24 25 26 27 28 29 Next All
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
December 20 2009 06:07 GMT
#501
What misinformation is this? Reavers are better than Templar during the early game with smaller army skirmishes.
Jaedong
MuffinDude
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3837 Posts
December 20 2009 06:08 GMT
#502
On December 20 2009 15:05 sharkeyanti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 15:03 MuffinDude wrote:
On December 20 2009 15:02 lone_hydra wrote:
On December 20 2009 14:59 usopsama wrote:
Stork is unstoppable right now. Unless you are a zerg on an imbalance amp (El Nino), there is no way in hell you can beat Stork, not even if you are Flash!


More Shine hate ftw. I still don't hate Shine. As long as Stork beats him in the OSl, he's still my man. But if he wins... I am gonna troll the shit out of the LR thread.

How is this shine hate? El nino is hella imba pvz. its like 2 - 9. Thats as imba as a map gets.


Tears of the Moon?

Thats like 2 - 9 too. So many zvp imba maps.
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
lone_hydra
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada1460 Posts
December 20 2009 06:08 GMT
#503
On December 20 2009 15:03 MuffinDude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 15:02 lone_hydra wrote:
On December 20 2009 14:59 usopsama wrote:
Stork is unstoppable right now. Unless you are a zerg on an imbalance amp (El Nino), there is no way in hell you can beat Stork, not even if you are Flash!


More Shine hate ftw. I still don't hate Shine. As long as Stork beats him in the OSl, he's still my man. But if he wins... I am gonna troll the shit out of the LR thread.

How is this shine hate? El nino is hella imba pvz. its like 2 - 9. Thats as imba as a map gets.


I remember on that map, Stork lost to Shine so I naturally thought he was referring to Shine. My mistake, it does look imba. Funny thing is Bisu beat Shine on this map of all places.
Fav Gamers: 2)Stork 5)Bisu
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
December 20 2009 06:19 GMT
#504
On December 20 2009 15:07 Avidkeystamper wrote:
What misinformation is this? Reavers are better than Templar during the early game with smaller army skirmishes.

this. Reaver splash is far more devastating in the early - mid game skirmishes
late game when its harder to dodge storms; THEN storms are more effective than reavers
cw)minsean(ru
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
December 20 2009 06:22 GMT
#505
On December 20 2009 15:01 .risingdragoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 15:00 Holgerius wrote:
On December 20 2009 14:55 .risingdragoon wrote:
lost on harassment

NOT ENOUGH upmagic, you gotta harass like a muthafucka if you gonna mech dude!!! slow expand's just too slow for tvz!!!!!!

Meh, you don't really have to harass a lot with mech if you can just turtle properly. It's possible to let the Zerg take all the expos he wants and still win the game.


rofl

what medieval mech is this? yea, maybe long time ago that was possible, before hyvaa beat fantasy on medusa sometime last year when he did the same basic things to win

these days you gotta harass, harass, and keep on harassing

I haven't played with mech a lot on HBR, but on Desti it is still very much viable to just turtle up and slowly, slowly creep forward to eventually take out the side expos (and then the Zerg will starve to death). Not much need for harassment at all.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
December 20 2009 06:24 GMT
#506
On December 20 2009 15:22 Holgerius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 15:01 .risingdragoon wrote:
On December 20 2009 15:00 Holgerius wrote:
On December 20 2009 14:55 .risingdragoon wrote:
lost on harassment

NOT ENOUGH upmagic, you gotta harass like a muthafucka if you gonna mech dude!!! slow expand's just too slow for tvz!!!!!!

Meh, you don't really have to harass a lot with mech if you can just turtle properly. It's possible to let the Zerg take all the expos he wants and still win the game.


rofl

what medieval mech is this? yea, maybe long time ago that was possible, before hyvaa beat fantasy on medusa sometime last year when he did the same basic things to win

these days you gotta harass, harass, and keep on harassing

I haven't played with mech a lot on HBR, but on Desti it is still very much viable to just turtle up and slowly, slowly creep forward to eventually take out the side expos (and then the Zerg will starve to death). Not much need for harassment at all.

i agree completely
go watch some Flash TvZ's on this map.
he plays it like a TvP . when he hits that huge 200 / 200 3/3/3 he moves out
swarm wont do shit
cw)minsean(ru
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
December 20 2009 06:31 GMT
#507
On December 20 2009 15:06 baubo wrote:

Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 14:58 .risingdragoon wrote:


On December 20 2009 13:44 RoieTRS wrote:
I recomend stork vs gosI[flying] as an example of how storms aren't necesarily better than reavers, it just makes them obsolete for the most part, but definitely not useless.


that's completely wrong

if the game was even templars would RAPE reavers

flying had to storm zealot/dragoons, when the reavers showed up he had nothing left


Indeed. Reavers are never better than templars. Harder to micro, slower in firing rate. Easier to kill. Flying lost that battle because Stork had more zealots and better dragoon arc. Which made up for his disadvantageous tech tree.




Temps do an abstract damage, because they don't actually do any damage, only storm. Reavers do real damage, and it can only help to have reavers. If you have reavers, you pretty much have a shuttle too, and gives you the ability to harass, especially useful because the map was outsider... pretty much made for reavers.
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
PangO
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Chile1870 Posts
December 20 2009 06:39 GMT
#508
On December 20 2009 14:59 usopsama wrote:
Stork is unstoppable right now. Unless you are a zerg on an imbalance amp (El Nino), there is no way in hell you can beat Stork, not even if you are Flash!


Yea, he will definetly win the serie against Shine !
In Economics, the majority is always wrong. aka: MattRz
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
December 20 2009 07:15 GMT
#509
On December 20 2009 15:07 Avidkeystamper wrote:
What misinformation is this? Reavers are better than Templar during the early game with smaller army skirmishes.


When is there ever a situation where you had small army with high templars? You can't even support hts on one base economy. Flying's army was about the smallest as it can get once a player reaches storm tech.

On December 20 2009 15:31 RoieTRS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 15:06 baubo wrote:

On December 20 2009 14:58 .risingdragoon wrote:


On December 20 2009 13:44 RoieTRS wrote:
I recomend stork vs gosI[flying] as an example of how storms aren't necesarily better than reavers, it just makes them obsolete for the most part, but definitely not useless.


that's completely wrong

if the game was even templars would RAPE reavers

flying had to storm zealot/dragoons, when the reavers showed up he had nothing left


Indeed. Reavers are never better than templars. Harder to micro, slower in firing rate. Easier to kill. Flying lost that battle because Stork had more zealots and better dragoon arc. Which made up for his disadvantageous tech tree.




Temps do an abstract damage, because they don't actually do any damage, only storm. Reavers do real damage, and it can only help to have reavers. If you have reavers, you pretty much have a shuttle too, and gives you the ability to harass, especially useful because the map was outsider... pretty much made for reavers.


I'm not sure what you're implying.

1. How is storm damage not real damage?
2. Why won't you have a shuttle with templar tech when all players tech to observers?
3. Why is reaver harass better than templar drop?
Meh
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
December 20 2009 07:23 GMT
#510
he meant that the templar doesnt have a normal attack, only storm, which doesnt do guaranteed damage. with a reaver you're gonna have little bombs going off every few seconds guaranteed. its variable how much they kill cuz of splash, but not nearly as much as storm, and you dont have to wait for 75 mana to get it.

he wasnt talking about tech, but the shuttle itself, since reavers are essentially useless without a shuttle. templars are just fine walking along with an army so you dont necessarily have shuttles if you focused on hts.

he didnt say reaver harass was better than temp drop, just said that reaver harass is really good on outsider, which it is because the setup makes it very hard to chase down shuttles and you can just fly around killing shit, instead of storm drops which are more of a one big shot and run away kind of thing.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
MuffinDude
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3837 Posts
December 20 2009 07:27 GMT
#511
1. Storms are just storms, it works best in clusters, therefore its more optimal in late game pvp. I think he means that in between storms ht can't attack.

2. Not everyone techs to obs really early. If you watched flying play, his obs tech was really late, so its not like his shuttle is going to get there any earlier.

3. In reaver harass, you can most likely keep ur reavers alive. =) Storm drops might kill more though.
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-20 07:30:01
December 20 2009 07:29 GMT
#512
Such a mundane argument. FBH, what do you say about this?

[image loading]


I see... So then, what would you do to these morons?

[image loading]


Just as I thought.

It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
MuffinDude
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3837 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-20 07:42:28
December 20 2009 07:34 GMT
#513
On December 20 2009 16:29 Mystlord wrote:
Such a mundane argument. FBH, what do you say about this?

[image loading]


I see... So then, what would you do to these morons?

[image loading]


Just as I thought.


Fbh's build was pretty clever though. 3 fac +1 weapon mass goliath build. And action played really greedy getting too many drones.

OH quick, before anyone makes this lame joke.

[image loading]

FALCON PUNCH!!!

Oh u labeled the file fbh falcon punch. I fail.
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
December 20 2009 07:36 GMT
#514
--- Nuked ---
Speake
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States494 Posts
December 20 2009 07:49 GMT
#515
Damn, really is 9-1 in his last 10 tvp
tQ.Speake
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
December 20 2009 07:57 GMT
#516
On December 20 2009 16:23 IdrA wrote:
he meant that the templar doesnt have a normal attack, only storm, which doesnt do guaranteed damage. with a reaver you're gonna have little bombs going off every few seconds guaranteed. its variable how much they kill cuz of splash, but not nearly as much as storm, and you dont have to wait for 75 mana to get it.

he wasnt talking about tech, but the shuttle itself, since reavers are essentially useless without a shuttle. templars are just fine walking along with an army so you dont necessarily have shuttles if you focused on hts.

he didnt say reaver harass was better than temp drop, just said that reaver harass is really good on outsider, which it is because the setup makes it very hard to chase down shuttles and you can just fly around killing shit, instead of storm drops which are more of a one big shot and run away kind of thing.


I still don't see how any of these reasoning show that reaver tech can be better than templar tech. You're on a pro team. Do the protosses on CJ really think Stork's tech order in the game isn't disadvantageous to Flying's?
Meh
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
December 20 2009 08:06 GMT
#517
if you dont see how those reasons show that reaver is better than ht for early battles its not really worth explaining it to you any more. read the first paragraph until it sinks in.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
December 20 2009 08:18 GMT
#518
I'm not saying templars are better than reavers early game. But that's an academic assertion because of how high the tech is in of itself. Hence it is almost by definition impossible to apply to early game situations.

Flying BO was basically super-fast HTs off of two bases. Yet he pushed out after 6 gateways. Early battles simply don't apply to templars.
Meh
lone_hydra
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada1460 Posts
December 20 2009 08:53 GMT
#519
On December 20 2009 16:36 stormtemplar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 16:29 Mystlord wrote:
Such a mundane argument. FBH, what do you say about this?

[image loading]


I see... So then, what would you do to these morons?

[image loading]


Just as I thought.




You sir just won the thread,


^_^

^o^

^.^

fbh rules, bonjwa of entertainment
Fav Gamers: 2)Stork 5)Bisu
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
December 20 2009 09:00 GMT
#520
On December 20 2009 17:18 baubo wrote:
I'm not saying templars are better than reavers early game. But that's an academic assertion because of how high the tech is in of itself. Hence it is almost by definition impossible to apply to early game situations.

Flying BO was basically super-fast HTs off of two bases. Yet he pushed out after 6 gateways. Early battles simply don't apply to templars.

relatively early game, early mid game.
its obvious what he was talking about, dont quibble over terminology
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
Prev 1 24 25 26 27 28 29 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 15m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 151
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 665
Jaedong 392
Killer 166
JulyZerg 146
Hm[arnc] 76
Shuttle 65
Pusan 58
Noble 55
ZergMaN 47
Backho 44
[ Show more ]
Mong 42
soO 39
HiyA 28
zelot 26
Sacsri 24
Bale 10
GoRush 10
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm98
febbydoto43
League of Legends
JimRising 1531
C9.Mang0347
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv562
oskar46
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi644
WinterStarcraft462
ceh9390
Happy263
Mew2King115
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick876
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1127
• Stunt456
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
15m
RongYI Cup
2h 15m
Clem vs TriGGeR
Maru vs Creator
WardiTV Invitational
5h 15m
PiGosaur Cup
16h 15m
Replay Cast
1d
RongYI Cup
1d 2h
herO vs Solar
WardiTV Invitational
1d 5h
The PondCast
2 days
HomeStory Cup
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
[ Show More ]
HomeStory Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
HomeStory Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-26
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.