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On October 14 2009 21:33 SkyTheUnknown wrote:
Bisu @ HBR did a risky build with massive Zealot/Goons and no Archon/Sair against Muta-Snipe. This was his downfall.
First Game was very close too. Here Bisu had too many archons in early game so his HTs/Storm were too late.
Watch the second game, here Bisu did no mistakes and raped Shine easily.
PvZ might be very hard nowadays but it's not THAT imbalanced like you all are claiming now.
i don't think it's so simple as saying bisu played perfectly second game. the zerg player had no lurkers no spire at all just went for 5 hatch hydra break with no tech or any backup plan. it was really a stupid game on the zerg's part especially how he ran headfirst into those storms.
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51477 Posts
On October 14 2009 21:34 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:32 GTR wrote:
you know this means
bisu back to offline qualifiers
lol
he is probably going to end up in a never ending loop like savior. nooooooooooooo GTR don't say it Bisu for MSL champ
its to safe to say until he wins an osl he will never be a b-word.
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United States12607 Posts
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On October 14 2009 21:33 SkyTheUnknown wrote:
Bisu @ HBR did a risky build with massive Zealot/Goons and no Archon/Sair against Muta-Snipe. This was his downfall.
First Game was very close too. Here Bisu had too many archons in early game so his HTs/Storm were too late.
Watch the second game, here Bisu did no mistakes and raped Shine easily.
PvZ might be very hard nowadays but it's not THAT imbalanced like you all are claiming now.
bisu made no mistake in 2nd game, just shine made a massive one lol
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On October 14 2009 21:31 Shikyo wrote:
Also, Bisu got too many goons I think.
He scouted lurker tech. Of course he rushed for goons. It's to Shine's credit that he switched tech real quickly. So when the armies clashed, there were almost no lurkers in Shine's army.
Regardless, because the protoss can't scout well in PvZ, it's really difficult for Bisu to realize Shine's switch fast enough to counter it. Oh well. 
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On October 14 2009 21:18 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
what the crap jus happened -.-
Shine showed us heartbreak ridge is at the very least balanced due to protoss not being able to deal with muta switches in a cost efficient way... And he showed you all those things I whined about in our little discussion earlier 
Protoss choices are basically limited to either making 7-8 corsairs to guard oneself against muta switches and in doing so losing all sort of presence and map control early on, or doing an extreme sort of timing attack and just hoping for the best. Even if you make the corsairs you aren't guaranteed safe. Lose 2 of them and they'll be useless again.
Heartbreak isn't exactly a map that lends itself very well to making many corsairs either so that leaves you with the timing attack. And zerg sim cities usually deal well with those.
Might still argue these things don't have anything to do with the map, and i agree they don't in general, except for too many corsairs generally being a waste on a map like Heartbreak. It's hard to do any sort of efficient harass on zergs 3 initial bases with a corsair --> harass oriented strategy, due to them being so close to eachother and easy to defend.
Doesn't have to do with the map. I think the ZvP matchup is shifting towards the zergs' favor again. It's real tough dealing with those constant and pretty much instantaneous tech switches. One small screwup in any point of the game (i.e. losing 2 corsairs is all it takes for a protoss to lose air superiority), and you're screwed.
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51477 Posts
On October 14 2009 21:36 JWD wrote:
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY
first by.hero, second type-b, now shine[kal]?
man we gotta make a poll on which crappy zerg makes the ro4 this season.
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The loss of first corsair was huge when he went double SG. It was too close to larva and I was literally cringing for 5sec before the inevitable happened.
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hallucinate some templars
and let the zerg suicide on killing them while keeping the real one at bay .
asking for the second time , since knowing zerg will use 9 mutas
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On October 14 2009 21:37 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:36 JWD wrote:
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY first by.hero, second type-b, now shine[kal]? man we gotta make a poll on which crappy zerg makes the ro4 this season.
i dont mind hero and type b..
but shine kal's face annoys me lol
does that make me a mean person
On October 14 2009 21:37 cascades wrote:
The loss of first corsair was huge when he went double SG. It was too close to larva and I was literally cringing for 5sec before the inevitable happened.
double stargate??
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On October 14 2009 21:36 JWD wrote:
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY
Maybe Bisu should have considered this before he decided to get raped by Shine haha.
You can't say that shine isn't talented after he trashed bisu's pvz.
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On October 14 2009 21:33 SkyTheUnknown wrote:
Bisu @ HBR did a risky build with massive Zealot/Goons and no Archon/Sair against Muta-Snipe. This was his downfall.
First Game was very close too. Here Bisu had too many archons in early game so his HTs/Storm were too late.
Watch the second game, here Bisu did no mistakes and raped Shine easily.
PvZ might be very hard nowadays but it's not THAT imbalanced like you all are claiming now.
Archon/sair was what he did the first game, to prevent muta snipe. Ok, just go mass hydras and GG. I dont say that zerg will shine (lol) forever against toss, but toss need to change (again) the way the matchup is played
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On October 14 2009 21:36 JWD wrote:
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY
YAAAAY..... i hate my life
Could someone plz go to korea and break Shine's kneecap?
Maybe then we will see Bisu in the OSL.
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On October 14 2009 21:37 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:36 JWD wrote:
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY first by.hero, second type-b, now shine[kal]? man we gotta make a poll on which crappy zerg makes the ro4 this season.
All of them.
The Round of 8 will be 6 mediocre Zergs, Jaedong, and one Terran.
And then the round of 4 will be nothing but zergs.
MARK MY WORDS
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As far as I'm concerned the ideal world for PvZ would be one in which protoss and zerg use dark archons, disruption web, and queens. Even Bisu is a worthy sacrifice for the shift to occur! ^_^
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IMO sair/archon doesn't stop HT snipes, since it's basically muta suicides. Imagine having 4 HTs in army, with first being taken out by the surprise. If 2 more get killed due to basic muta micro, protoss is dead - one HT won't make it, since hydras also can dodge storms.
Just a question though, what happened to sair/2reaver/speed zealot pushes? Are they getting rolled by hydra flanks now? Speed shuttle seems more resistant to muta snipes; at least it can surely get reavers in attack spot, and reavers are more tough - sair protection has better chance to work.
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9070 Posts
On October 14 2009 21:38 ghostWriter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:36 JWD wrote:
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY Maybe Bisu should have considered this before he decided to get raped by Shine haha. You can't say that shine isn't talented after he trashed bisu's pvz.
yeah but the very thought that Shine "trashed" world's best PvZ is disturbing to say at least
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I dont understand why Bisu didnt try the build he used against Jaedong. Fast zealots +1 push before the zerg get lurkers
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On October 14 2009 21:35 alffla wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:31 Shikyo wrote:On October 14 2009 21:19 SkytoM wrote:
PvZ Balance? Out of this world. Bisu didn't even play bad. Well, although ZvP seems quite imbalanced these days, I've got to say that the last game Shine played really, really well. Also, Bisu got too many goons I think. Shine played very well though, and this build is quite good and new as well... I think it's becoming the standard these days. Maybe Protoss are trying to play against it like the play against the normal straight Hydra build and it just doesn't work as well. whats the normal straight hydra build? this 3 hatch lair -> spire + den +2 hatches hydra pressure switch to muta HT sniping has been like every PvZ game i've watched for the last i dont know how long lol ~_~
What are you talking about? He didn't go Hydra, he went Lurker first.
On October 14 2009 21:36 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:31 Shikyo wrote:
Also, Bisu got too many goons I think. He scouted lurker tech. Of course he rushed for goons. It's to Shine's credit that he switched tech real quickly. So when the armies clashed, there were almost no lurkers in Shine's army. Regardless, because the protoss can't scout well in PvZ, it's really difficult for Bisu to realize Shine's switch fast enough to counter it. Oh well.
Exactly, I think Protosses haven't adapted to this build well enough, so he overreacted.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On October 14 2009 21:40 funKy_KroK wrote:
I dont understand why Bisu didnt try the build he used against Jaedong. Fast zealots +1 push before the zerg get lurkers
i think in that game jaedong played like ass and went for fast lurkers or something
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EPT
