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On October 14 2009 21:45 TwoToneTerran wrote:
The sad part is, Archons aren't even the answer. The problem is that the protoss army melts without storm, so sniping 4 templar is an auto win if you engage quickly. If you force him to make 2-4 archons just to keep a couple templars alive...That's effectively sniping 4-8 templar that could've been used for storm.
There's an answer somewhere, there always is, but Protoss is looking more and more disheveled by the day.
I know a lot of people are saying Dark Archon, but that's still 2 dts worth, plus painful upgrades just to keep templars alive. I really think we just need newer maps. Why are we still using HBR after it contributed to the demolishing of protoss last OSL?
zerg is making spire + nine mutas for just one purpose one: kill HTs so hydras can roll through. that's at least 900 gas/mineral to do one thing. surely protoss can spend an equal amount of time/money to protect their valuable HTs with DA. in the last game bisu already had dark templars; it's just a simple matter of making a DA and upgrading maelstrom. i agree with other posters + the announcers that DA needs to be at least considered and i feel 100 percent that bisu would have won if he had two DA in that last game
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On October 14 2009 21:57 ATLAS-3.04 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:45 TwoToneTerran wrote:There's an answer somewhere, there always is, but Protoss is looking more and more disheveled by the day. Starcraft has been the backbone of the e-sports community for over a decade. Could there really be some hidden strategy or whatnot to save the Protoss after all this time? It certainly doesn't help that the Protoss is historically the least success race.
Only in Korea... Counterstrike was far more popular in the early 00's in every other country...
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On October 14 2009 21:45 ghostWriter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:40 disciple wrote:On October 14 2009 21:38 ghostWriter wrote:On October 14 2009 21:36 JWD wrote:
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY Maybe Bisu should have considered this before he decided to get raped by Shine haha. You can't say that shine isn't talented after he trashed bisu's pvz. yeah but the very thought that Shine "trashed" world's best PvZ is disturbing to say at least Well, like GTR said, this isn't the first time that Bisu has been eliminated early by some noob zerg that he should have advanced past. I think it has to do with his arrogance. He probably didn't prepare enough, thinking that it's just shine[kal] and that's how he ended up disappointing everyone. It's about time for zerg to have their heyday. Protoss and Terran have had way longer periods of dominance. I'm glad that the racial imbalance is beginning to change.
About time?
Are you for real?
Zergs are allready having a 'period of dominance' (ya know those 4 titles and imba ZvP) and you want it to continue?
The last season was one of the worst in recent memory with all these frigging ZvZ's and protoss getting crushed all over the place and you want it to continue?
You honestly want all this to continue?
I dont really know what to say.
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United States12607 Posts
On October 14 2009 21:58 Kreedit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:45 ghostWriter wrote:On October 14 2009 21:40 disciple wrote:On October 14 2009 21:38 ghostWriter wrote:On October 14 2009 21:36 JWD wrote:
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY Maybe Bisu should have considered this before he decided to get raped by Shine haha. You can't say that shine isn't talented after he trashed bisu's pvz. yeah but the very thought that Shine "trashed" world's best PvZ is disturbing to say at least Well, like GTR said, this isn't the first time that Bisu has been eliminated early by some noob zerg that he should have advanced past. I think it has to do with his arrogance. He probably didn't prepare enough, thinking that it's just shine[kal] and that's how he ended up disappointing everyone. It's about time for zerg to have their heyday. Protoss and Terran have had way longer periods of dominance. I'm glad that the racial imbalance is beginning to change. About time? Are you for real? Zergs are allready having a 'period of dominance' (ya know those 4 titles and imba ZvP) and you want it to continue? The last season was one of the worst in recent memory with all these frigging ZvZ's and protoss getting crushed all over the place and you want it to continue? You honestly want all this to continue? I dont really know what to say.
Yeah this is a good point, to say that the "racial imbalance is beginning to change" in favor of Zergs is pretty much to ignore the last half year of SC. Zergs have been beating the piss out of everyone for quite some time now.
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On October 14 2009 21:57 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:45 TwoToneTerran wrote:
The sad part is, Archons aren't even the answer. The problem is that the protoss army melts without storm, so sniping 4 templar is an auto win if you engage quickly. If you force him to make 2-4 archons just to keep a couple templars alive...That's effectively sniping 4-8 templar that could've been used for storm.
There's an answer somewhere, there always is, but Protoss is looking more and more disheveled by the day.
I know a lot of people are saying Dark Archon, but that's still 2 dts worth, plus painful upgrades just to keep templars alive. I really think we just need newer maps. Why are we still using HBR after it contributed to the demolishing of protoss last OSL? zerg is making spire + nine mutas for just one purpose one: kill HTs so hydras can roll through. that's at least 900 gas/mineral to do one thing. surely protoss can spend an equal amount of time/money to protect their valuable HTs with DA. in the last game bisu already had dark templars; it's just a simple matter of making a DA and upgrading maelstrom. i agree with other posters + the announcers that DA needs to be at least considered and i feel 100 percent that bisu would have won if he had two DA in that last game
Until we see a progamer successfully pull it off in a PvZ with all the timing windows accounted for, it's just theorycrafting and "a potentially good idea."
Until GOMTV MSL S1 Final, Daezang's sair/dt idea was just a cute little idea. Unless one or more progamers can pull it off successfully and consistently against the best zergs, theory is just theory.
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On October 14 2009 22:00 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:58 Kreedit wrote:On October 14 2009 21:45 ghostWriter wrote:On October 14 2009 21:40 disciple wrote:On October 14 2009 21:38 ghostWriter wrote:On October 14 2009 21:36 JWD wrote:
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY Maybe Bisu should have considered this before he decided to get raped by Shine haha. You can't say that shine isn't talented after he trashed bisu's pvz. yeah but the very thought that Shine "trashed" world's best PvZ is disturbing to say at least Well, like GTR said, this isn't the first time that Bisu has been eliminated early by some noob zerg that he should have advanced past. I think it has to do with his arrogance. He probably didn't prepare enough, thinking that it's just shine[kal] and that's how he ended up disappointing everyone. It's about time for zerg to have their heyday. Protoss and Terran have had way longer periods of dominance. I'm glad that the racial imbalance is beginning to change. About time? Are you for real? Zergs are allready having a 'period of dominance' (ya know those 4 titles and imba ZvP) and you want it to continue? The last season was one of the worst in recent memory with all these frigging ZvZ's and protoss getting crushed all over the place and you want it to continue? You honestly want all this to continue? I dont really know what to say. Yeah this is a good point, to say that the "racial imbalance is beginning to change" in favor of Zergs is pretty much to ignore the last half year of SC. Jaedong's have been beating the piss out of everyone for quite some time now.
Fixed.
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On October 14 2009 21:50 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:45 ghostWriter wrote:
It's about time for zerg to have their heyday. Protoss and Terran have had way longer periods of dominance. I'm glad that the racial imbalance is beginning to change. Have you forgotten about Savior and how impossible he made PvZ for about a year? You could make a case that Terran has had more "good seasons" than Zerg, but Protoss? No way. We've never seen a Protoss bonjwa and the only time Protoss ever approached dominance was one SC season last year (ClubDay MSL's).
I dunno, Bisu was pretty dominant right after he crushed savior 3-0 (I forget which tournament this was)
The six dragons period must have been shorter than I remember. Must be because it was so recent.
And I meant that it seems like all zergs as a race are beginning to dominate strongly, even the no namers, not just the guys at the top. Sorry, it's midterms week and I'm not thinking clearly.
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On October 14 2009 22:01 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 22:00 JWD wrote:On October 14 2009 21:58 Kreedit wrote:On October 14 2009 21:45 ghostWriter wrote:On October 14 2009 21:40 disciple wrote:On October 14 2009 21:38 ghostWriter wrote:On October 14 2009 21:36 JWD wrote:
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY Maybe Bisu should have considered this before he decided to get raped by Shine haha. You can't say that shine isn't talented after he trashed bisu's pvz. yeah but the very thought that Shine "trashed" world's best PvZ is disturbing to say at least Well, like GTR said, this isn't the first time that Bisu has been eliminated early by some noob zerg that he should have advanced past. I think it has to do with his arrogance. He probably didn't prepare enough, thinking that it's just shine[kal] and that's how he ended up disappointing everyone. It's about time for zerg to have their heyday. Protoss and Terran have had way longer periods of dominance. I'm glad that the racial imbalance is beginning to change. About time? Are you for real? Zergs are allready having a 'period of dominance' (ya know those 4 titles and imba ZvP) and you want it to continue? The last season was one of the worst in recent memory with all these frigging ZvZ's and protoss getting crushed all over the place and you want it to continue? You honestly want all this to continue? I dont really know what to say. Yeah this is a good point, to say that the "racial imbalance is beginning to change" in favor of Zergs is pretty much to ignore the last half year of SC. Jaedong's have been beating the piss out of everyone for quite some time now. Fixed.
don't fix what isnt broken
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Calm, luxury, effort, yarnc, type-b, shine[kal], kwanro
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United States12607 Posts
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On October 14 2009 22:01 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 22:00 JWD wrote:On October 14 2009 21:58 Kreedit wrote:On October 14 2009 21:45 ghostWriter wrote:On October 14 2009 21:40 disciple wrote:On October 14 2009 21:38 ghostWriter wrote:On October 14 2009 21:36 JWD wrote:
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY Maybe Bisu should have considered this before he decided to get raped by Shine haha. You can't say that shine isn't talented after he trashed bisu's pvz. yeah but the very thought that Shine "trashed" world's best PvZ is disturbing to say at least Well, like GTR said, this isn't the first time that Bisu has been eliminated early by some noob zerg that he should have advanced past. I think it has to do with his arrogance. He probably didn't prepare enough, thinking that it's just shine[kal] and that's how he ended up disappointing everyone. It's about time for zerg to have their heyday. Protoss and Terran have had way longer periods of dominance. I'm glad that the racial imbalance is beginning to change. About time? Are you for real? Zergs are allready having a 'period of dominance' (ya know those 4 titles and imba ZvP) and you want it to continue? The last season was one of the worst in recent memory with all these frigging ZvZ's and protoss getting crushed all over the place and you want it to continue? You honestly want all this to continue? I dont really know what to say. Yeah this is a good point, to say that the "racial imbalance is beginning to change" in favor of Zergs is pretty much to ignore the last half year of SC. Jaedong's have been beating the piss out of everyone for quite some time now. Fixed.
If it was just Jaedong, then we wouldn't have had so many zergs in the RO8 of Bacchus and TWO ZvZ finals last season.
When Savior was beating the piss out of everyone in 2006, we still saw quite a few Protosses in the leagues. I remember Pringles S2 MSL had Kingdom, Nal_ra, Terato, and Daezang, and maybe a couple others IIRC.
THERE WERE 3 PROTOSS IN BACCHUS OSL and ONE in the Avalon MSL RO8.
So no, it's not just Jaedong. It's any random Zerg that feels like winning on a given day (see: type-b, Shine, Zero)
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Played a fucking meaningless game of HoMM3 just to come back and see mofo Shine beat Bisu? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
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On October 14 2009 22:00 Kyo Yuy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 21:57 d_so wrote:On October 14 2009 21:45 TwoToneTerran wrote:
The sad part is, Archons aren't even the answer. The problem is that the protoss army melts without storm, so sniping 4 templar is an auto win if you engage quickly. If you force him to make 2-4 archons just to keep a couple templars alive...That's effectively sniping 4-8 templar that could've been used for storm.
There's an answer somewhere, there always is, but Protoss is looking more and more disheveled by the day.
I know a lot of people are saying Dark Archon, but that's still 2 dts worth, plus painful upgrades just to keep templars alive. I really think we just need newer maps. Why are we still using HBR after it contributed to the demolishing of protoss last OSL? zerg is making spire + nine mutas for just one purpose one: kill HTs so hydras can roll through. that's at least 900 gas/mineral to do one thing. surely protoss can spend an equal amount of time/money to protect their valuable HTs with DA. in the last game bisu already had dark templars; it's just a simple matter of making a DA and upgrading maelstrom. i agree with other posters + the announcers that DA needs to be at least considered and i feel 100 percent that bisu would have won if he had two DA in that last game Until we see a progamer successfully pull it off in a PvZ with all the timing windows accounted for, it's just theorycrafting and "a potentially good idea." Until GOMTV MSL S1 Final, Daezang's sair/dt idea was just a cute little idea. Unless one or more progamers can pull it off successfully and consistently against the best zergs, theory is just theory.
Yeah, and actually you have to consider that Zerg has 3 gas and Protoss only 2, and also the fact that Mutalisks don't only snipe HT, they actually keep map control, snipe at Zealots, pick off probes, force cannons at both bases and so on. And even with one DA, you really can't prevent mutas from sniping templar that come out of the gateways.
Another thing is that HTs cost 150 gas and with all the maelstrom and storm upgrades and potential goons AND the early observers you require against this build Shine did, how many HT are you actually going to have after you are able to sufficiently defend them against the Mutas? Not many.
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TOSS NEEDS NEW REVOLUTIONIST(S)
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On October 14 2009 21:56 Camlito wrote:LOOOOOOOOOL I VOTED SHINE OMG! BY.HERO 2.0! 4/4 edit: i feel bad for protoss, but i'm sick of reading protoss players respond to any post that may be saying protoss isn't hard with sarcastic shit all the time. I.E Someone makes a post about SKT Zergs sucking and he says zerg isn't hard... wtf?
REALLY now?? How do you think protoss players feel about the past 3 years of "1a2a3a" bullshit comments?? And YOU are sick of sarcastic shit? wow.
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United States12607 Posts
Current MSL Ro32 field:
 Calm, Kwanro, Jaedong, EffOrt, ZerO, Saint, type-b, Hyuk
 Bisu, Movie, Stats
 Iris, Canata, Hwasin
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Needs more zergs if they want to have the chance of all zerg quarterfinals.
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On October 14 2009 22:06 Kyo Yuy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2009 22:01 keV. wrote:On October 14 2009 22:00 JWD wrote:On October 14 2009 21:58 Kreedit wrote:On October 14 2009 21:45 ghostWriter wrote:On October 14 2009 21:40 disciple wrote:On October 14 2009 21:38 ghostWriter wrote:On October 14 2009 21:36 JWD wrote:
hay guys, let's look at the upside: now we get to see the unique, popular, and talented Shine[KaL] in the OSL Ro16
YAY Maybe Bisu should have considered this before he decided to get raped by Shine haha. You can't say that shine isn't talented after he trashed bisu's pvz. yeah but the very thought that Shine "trashed" world's best PvZ is disturbing to say at least Well, like GTR said, this isn't the first time that Bisu has been eliminated early by some noob zerg that he should have advanced past. I think it has to do with his arrogance. He probably didn't prepare enough, thinking that it's just shine[kal] and that's how he ended up disappointing everyone. It's about time for zerg to have their heyday. Protoss and Terran have had way longer periods of dominance. I'm glad that the racial imbalance is beginning to change. About time? Are you for real? Zergs are allready having a 'period of dominance' (ya know those 4 titles and imba ZvP) and you want it to continue? The last season was one of the worst in recent memory with all these frigging ZvZ's and protoss getting crushed all over the place and you want it to continue? You honestly want all this to continue? I dont really know what to say. Yeah this is a good point, to say that the "racial imbalance is beginning to change" in favor of Zergs is pretty much to ignore the last half year of SC. Jaedong's have been beating the piss out of everyone for quite some time now. Fixed. If it was just Jaedong, then we wouldn't have had so many zergs in the RO8 of Bacchus and TWO ZvZ finals last season. When Savior was beating the piss out of everyone in 2006, we still saw quite a few Protosses in the leagues. I remember Pringles S2 MSL had Kingdom, Nal_ra, Terato, and Daezang, and maybe a couple others IIRC. THERE WERE 3 PROTOSS IN BACCHUS OSL and ONE in the Avalon MSL RO8. So no, it's not just Jaedong. It's any random Zerg that feels like winning on a given day (see: type-b, Shine, Zero)
If you paid attention you would notice he was referring not to a single Jaedong but rather to Jaedongs.
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EPT
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