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On July 07 2009 03:39 Arrian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 03:24 Plexa wrote:
Disagree Arrian, thats like saying if your overlords are found in their hiding place 2+ corsairs and they're all gone (this is clearly not the case!) Ah, but overlords are a necessity. Queens have less health, and their helplessness cannot be an argument for having to guard them, too. The implication in the OP is that you have to hide your queens. Hiding them separates them from what can defend them, generally. With overlords, you keep them close and you can defend them.
Theres no point in hiding the queens imo.
Just keep them with your hydras.
Any decent p is going to fly a sair around your base/bases and be like hmmmm...this is odd I guess hes going for ....queens? WTF.
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Something weird just happened. I saw the picture and read the title and I thought why is there a Marine in the picture??? Read a bit more and scrolled back up and now there's a High Templar there. How the fuck did I see a Marine first?!?! hahaha
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On July 07 2009 03:59 McCrank wrote:
Something weird just happened. I saw the picture and read the title and I thought why is there a Marine in the picture??? Read a bit more and scrolled back up and now there's a High Templar there. How the fuck did I see a Marine first?!?! hahaha
to much mj?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On July 07 2009 03:39 Arrian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 03:24 Plexa wrote:
Disagree Arrian, thats like saying if your overlords are found in their hiding place 2+ corsairs and they're all gone (this is clearly not the case!) Ah, but overlords are a necessity. Queens have less health, and their helplessness cannot be an argument for having to guard them, too. The implication in the OP is that you have to hide your queens. Hiding them separates them from what can defend them, generally. With overlords, you keep them close and you can defend them.
Queens are faster than corsairs you know  In fact I think they are as fast as speed upgraded vultures (or maybe a tad slower)
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17083 Posts
On July 07 2009 04:39 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 03:39 Arrian wrote:On July 07 2009 03:24 Plexa wrote:
Disagree Arrian, thats like saying if your overlords are found in their hiding place 2+ corsairs and they're all gone (this is clearly not the case!) Ah, but overlords are a necessity. Queens have less health, and their helplessness cannot be an argument for having to guard them, too. The implication in the OP is that you have to hide your queens. Hiding them separates them from what can defend them, generally. With overlords, you keep them close and you can defend them. Queens are faster than corsairs you know In fact I think they are as fast as speed upgraded vultures (or maybe a tad slower)
Yeah, Queens, Mutas, and Scourge were always the worst units to face in those defense maps 
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United States889 Posts
On July 07 2009 04:39 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 03:39 Arrian wrote:On July 07 2009 03:24 Plexa wrote:
Disagree Arrian, thats like saying if your overlords are found in their hiding place 2+ corsairs and they're all gone (this is clearly not the case!) Ah, but overlords are a necessity. Queens have less health, and their helplessness cannot be an argument for having to guard them, too. The implication in the OP is that you have to hide your queens. Hiding them separates them from what can defend them, generally. With overlords, you keep them close and you can defend them. Queens are faster than corsairs you know In fact I think they are as fast as speed upgraded vultures (or maybe a tad slower)
Fair enough, but be that as it may, they are still defenseless. Epic Protoss counter: Speed upgraded scouts?
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did you guys know that parasited detectors also detect for you as well as give you their vision. So if you parasite one of thier obs, you will see thier DT's, or better yet see all the units under an arbiter.
Just throwing that out there...
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On July 07 2009 04:39 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 03:39 Arrian wrote:On July 07 2009 03:24 Plexa wrote:
Disagree Arrian, thats like saying if your overlords are found in their hiding place 2+ corsairs and they're all gone (this is clearly not the case!) Ah, but overlords are a necessity. Queens have less health, and their helplessness cannot be an argument for having to guard them, too. The implication in the OP is that you have to hide your queens. Hiding them separates them from what can defend them, generally. With overlords, you keep them close and you can defend them. Queens are faster than corsairs you know
Actually, queens, corsairs, mutas and scourge (and speed-upgraded scouts) are all the same speed.
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Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.
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On July 07 2009 05:12 The Raurosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 04:39 Plexa wrote:On July 07 2009 03:39 Arrian wrote:On July 07 2009 03:24 Plexa wrote:
Disagree Arrian, thats like saying if your overlords are found in their hiding place 2+ corsairs and they're all gone (this is clearly not the case!) Ah, but overlords are a necessity. Queens have less health, and their helplessness cannot be an argument for having to guard them, too. The implication in the OP is that you have to hide your queens. Hiding them separates them from what can defend them, generally. With overlords, you keep them close and you can defend them. Queens are faster than corsairs you know Actually, queens, corsairs, mutas and scourge (and speed-upgraded scouts) are all the same speed.
I disagree, Speed upgraded scouts are definitely faster. Don't know about queens for sure, but definitely the other stuff.
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United States889 Posts
On July 07 2009 05:28 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 05:12 The Raurosaur wrote:On July 07 2009 04:39 Plexa wrote:On July 07 2009 03:39 Arrian wrote:On July 07 2009 03:24 Plexa wrote:
Disagree Arrian, thats like saying if your overlords are found in their hiding place 2+ corsairs and they're all gone (this is clearly not the case!) Ah, but overlords are a necessity. Queens have less health, and their helplessness cannot be an argument for having to guard them, too. The implication in the OP is that you have to hide your queens. Hiding them separates them from what can defend them, generally. With overlords, you keep them close and you can defend them. Queens are faster than corsairs you know Actually, queens, corsairs, mutas and scourge (and speed-upgraded scouts) are all the same speed. I disagree, Speed upgraded scouts are definitely faster. Don't know about queens for sure, but definitely the other stuff.
Speed upgraded scouts sure are zippy. Natural sprinters. Very dangerous at short distances.
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Seems really expensive. And for that reason this needs a build order, cant just explain how to micro queens and think anyone can do this.
Ok :p i just read the build order and the main disadvantage i see it has is the lack of spire. if you have no spire, the first few corsairs will make you cry and may even cost you the game, hiding the queens isnt really viable.
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PS op...you seem to have a very poor grasp of basic zvp skills, for example, you wrote:
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Build 7-8 queens asap and hide them somewhere. Remember to spawn them at the same time so they are at equal energy. Start massing hydra, researching upgrades while saturating your bases with drones. I like to use 3 hatches for hydras and 2 for drones. Attack as soon as you have 150 energy. First parasite with one queen and then clone your broodling charges.
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Its horrible to pump units from some hatches and drones from others at the same time. Zerg should be pumping only drones or only units because its much much more effcient to do so. Your build order should get only 4 or so hydras then make only drones until your 3 bases are full. Then 6 or so queens, then only hydras until 150 energy. Make sunks as needed depending on what you scout.
Also in ANY zerg build you need to make a spire. The threat of mutas is far too valuable not to have. Even if you dont even make any scourge and he sair scouts you its worth it. If he doesnt sair scout you and you made the spire, make like 2 mutas and scout/hit open probes. The pressence of even 2 mutas will most likely make him cannon up (in case you might send more).
PS Feedback has a range of 11 im pretty sure. Its definitely AT LEAST as long as any spell the queen can cast.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina41 Posts
On July 07 2009 05:04 Pyro]v[aniac wrote:
did you guys know that parasited detectors also detect for you as well as give you their vision. So if you parasite one of thier obs, you will see thier DT's, or better yet see all the units under an arbiter.
Just throwing that out there...
I switched to zerg's vision in that replay in 1st post, and you can parasite Zealot, and since his zealot sees his dark templar you can see it also. So basically you dont need to parasite obs, you can parasite anything. I think with his last queen attack in the demo that he also killed a dark templar with broodling. I'm quite sure I saw it well :D
I will use more queens in my games as of now : ) at least for parasite, its extremely nice to see where are his units. And in all the fuss he might even not notice parasite on his unit.
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I'm pretty sure this isnt true...
It shows up in the replay but it wouldnt be visible in the actual game. You'll notice when the dt is being killed theres an ovie near by
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17083 Posts
On July 07 2009 05:46 invy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 05:04 Pyro]v[aniac wrote:
did you guys know that parasited detectors also detect for you as well as give you their vision. So if you parasite one of thier obs, you will see thier DT's, or better yet see all the units under an arbiter.
Just throwing that out there... I switched to zerg's vision in that replay in 1st post, and you can parasite Zealot, and since his zealot sees his dark templar you can see it also. So basically you dont need to parasite obs, you can parasite anything. I think with his last queen attack in the demo that he also killed a dark templar with broodling. I'm quite sure I saw it well :D
I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen. :/
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17083 Posts
On July 07 2009 05:04 Pyro]v[aniac wrote:
did you guys know that parasited detectors also detect for you as well as give you their vision. So if you parasite one of thier obs, you will see thier DT's, or better yet see all the units under an arbiter.
Just throwing that out there...
Oh yes, parasiting Arbiters completely counters the ever-popular Arbiter rush PvZ build.
...
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queens are good, they are just too micro inefficient. I would use them if ensnare had a faster cast time(instant would be good) and/or if spawn brood ling was slightly cheaper.
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It's good in theory, but requires too much work and isn't as flexible as mutas. Queens can't do anything without energy and all those gas you need to research upgrades really slow down your lurker production. Mutas also aren't only templar snipers, they can be used very effectively in combination with hydras, lings and lurkers after killing of temps.
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Ya the real problem with queens is their use AFTER you use the first spawn broodling.
It takes FOREVER for them to be useful again.
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EPT
