• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:53
CEST 15:53
KST 22:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection1Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th110Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League5Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double1Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th The death of cheese, from a professional cheeser. TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Changing from 12 to 8 is just asking for StarCraft Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Soma's ASL Finals Review FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event VPN experiences
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1933 users

[G] Queen Hydra in ZvP - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
July 06 2009 21:22 GMT
#41
Not to mention you will either get rolled, or the protoss will take a 3rd without you being able to do much about it, if you are saving up 800/800 for queens. You can do this with mutas because mutas are instantly effective against HT/zealots etc.
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
Probe.
Profile Joined May 2009
United States877 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-06 22:37:29
July 06 2009 22:28 GMT
#42
If queen were good progamers would use them more often. It's as simple as that.

edit: i wish i played more zergs that thought like OP.
meow
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-06 22:31:09
July 06 2009 22:30 GMT
#43
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.
generic88
Profile Joined December 2008
United States118 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-06 22:56:55
July 06 2009 22:55 GMT
#44
On July 07 2009 07:28 Probe. wrote:
If queen were good progamers would use them more often. It's as simple as that.

edit: i wish i played more zergs that thought like OP.


If Valkyries were good progamers would use them more often. It's as simple as that.

If you don't get what I'm saying it is this, Valkyries have only been being used more often in TvZ very recently. The game is still changing and Pro-gamers are not the only ones capable of developing new strategies.
Arrian
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States889 Posts
July 06 2009 22:55 GMT
#45
I played a ZvP on Andromeda the other day where I made queens. At first it was because he'd turtled so hard, I'd taken the map, and I had no scout on him or his army whatsoever so I parasited the neutral kakaroo thing and waited for it to fly over his base. It took so long that I just parasited the first thing I saw in his base, which happened to be a corsair.

Turns out he was going carriers. Instead of overreacting and building a ton of devourers, I built about 15 queens and started moving them around his base in a taunt. Then I built a lot of devourers. I'd say that's pretty close to the most useful a queen has ever been for me.
Writersator arepo tenet opera rotas
Mobius
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1268 Posts
July 06 2009 23:09 GMT
#46
150min/gas for brood is a huge investment in the beginning of the game..
Entusman #51
Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
July 06 2009 23:17 GMT
#47
It was an interesting guide, but i think that queens could be used more effectively if ensnare was simply used.

Zerg units have a higher ROF and DPS than protoss units, and really ensnare is just going to make this difference even more pronounced. Goon micro would be pointless, and because ensnare is only 100/100 and 2/3 queens 100/100 I feel that it could be a very viable thing to do during the midlate / early late game.

Just simply cut out a muta or two or delay your lurker upgrade (if you are playing 5 hatch hydra)

That i think would easily be able to benefit zerg in the late game. You will still have the muta out, and the protoss army is going to be severely hampered.

Really i feel that heavy queen use could be a great counter to mass range goon templar. Just for the simple fact of the ROF and DPS difference that ensnared goons would be dealing with against hydra. In that respect i feel that the queen could be the most useful. However broodling is just too much of an investment, and the 150mp cost is too great.

Once again- nice guide and thanks for the great writeup it was very thought provoking.
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
July 06 2009 23:29 GMT
#48
On July 07 2009 07:28 Probe. wrote:
If queen were good progamers would use them more often. It's as simple as that.

edit: i wish i played more zergs that thought like OP.

Read jaedong's interview on queens and ensnare. Yes broodling sucks but even jaedong thinks ensnare could be quite good.

He basically says it could be very good but not even he has the apm to do everything that needs to be done AND use queens effectively but he works on it in practice sometimes.

So not its not that simple. Besides parasite is very useful. If youve started hive, might as well make a queen to be honest. Just for the parasite and possible cc infest. So many games I get a cc to yellow and think hey...if only I had a queen right now...
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
July 06 2009 23:32 GMT
#49
On July 07 2009 07:30 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.

Ya thought that one was pretty freaking obvious lol.

Ever chased a sair across the map with 2 scourge?

Ever watched any pro zvp in the last 6 months? It's pretty clear they are exactly the same speed.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
July 06 2009 23:33 GMT
#50
On July 07 2009 07:55 Arrian wrote:
I played a ZvP on Andromeda the other day where I made queens. At first it was because he'd turtled so hard, I'd taken the map, and I had no scout on him or his army whatsoever so I parasited the neutral kakaroo thing and waited for it to fly over his base. It took so long that I just parasited the first thing I saw in his base, which happened to be a corsair.

Turns out he was going carriers. Instead of overreacting and building a ton of devourers, I built about 15 queens and started moving them around his base in a taunt. Then I built a lot of devourers. I'd say that's pretty close to the most useful a queen has ever been for me.

Ok so basically what youre trying to say is that you suck at bw?

I see I see...very interesting.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
APurpleCow
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1372 Posts
July 06 2009 23:34 GMT
#51
On July 07 2009 07:30 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.


You sure about that?

I've seen a scourge catch up and kill a corsair that was running away from it many times. In my experience scourge are VERY slightly faster than Corsair.

I use queens sometimes against Sair/DT, Sair/Reavers, and 2 port Wraith for Ensnare. They're always pretty awesome.
Arrian
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States889 Posts
July 06 2009 23:39 GMT
#52
On July 07 2009 08:33 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 07:55 Arrian wrote:
I played a ZvP on Andromeda the other day where I made queens. At first it was because he'd turtled so hard, I'd taken the map, and I had no scout on him or his army whatsoever so I parasited the neutral kakaroo thing and waited for it to fly over his base. It took so long that I just parasited the first thing I saw in his base, which happened to be a corsair.

Turns out he was going carriers. Instead of overreacting and building a ton of devourers, I built about 15 queens and started moving them around his base in a taunt. Then I built a lot of devourers. I'd say that's pretty close to the most useful a queen has ever been for me.

Ok so basically what youre trying to say is that you suck at bw?

I see I see...very interesting.


I challenge you to a ZvZ queens only to defend my honor! If nothing else, my queen taunting micro is unrivaled. You cannot hope to win, because my broodlings are magical and never run out of energy.
Writersator arepo tenet opera rotas
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
July 06 2009 23:40 GMT
#53
I'd just ensnare DTs to reveal them instead of using parasite to reveal them in most cases.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
July 06 2009 23:41 GMT
#54
No. Scourge are not faster.

In those instances the P probably made a slight turn torwards the angle the scourge was comming from since the scourge was probably RIGHT behind it the scourge caught up.

If scourge really were slightly faster than they would ALWAYS catch a sair running in a staight line across the map but instead they NEVER do. Keep in mind, the sair path has to be perfectly straight and if it does turn it needs to be a sharp angle/an angle away from the angle the scourge is comming at.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
Probe.
Profile Joined May 2009
United States877 Posts
July 06 2009 23:41 GMT
#55
On July 07 2009 08:29 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 07:28 Probe. wrote:
If queen were good progamers would use them more often. It's as simple as that.

edit: i wish i played more zergs that thought like OP.

Read jaedong's interview on queens and ensnare. Yes broodling sucks but even jaedong thinks ensnare could be quite good.

He basically says it could be very good but not even he has the apm to do everything that needs to be done AND use queens effectively but he works on it in practice sometimes.

So not its not that simple. Besides parasite is very useful. If youve started hive, might as well make a queen to be honest. Just for the parasite and possible cc infest. So many games I get a cc to yellow and think hey...if only I had a queen right now...


Look if jaedong can't use queens effectively, no one can. GIVE UP.
meow
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
July 06 2009 23:48 GMT
#56
On July 07 2009 08:34 APurpleCow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 07:30 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.


You sure about that?

I've seen a scourge catch up and kill a corsair that was running away from it many times. In my experience scourge are VERY slightly faster than Corsair.

I use queens sometimes against Sair/DT, Sair/Reavers, and 2 port Wraith for Ensnare. They're always pretty awesome.

Yes, I am very sure about it as I have witnessed my scourge chase corsairs over the entire length of Destination with the distance between my scourge and the corsairs stay exactly the same until I had to pull them back before they run into cannons.

They're exactly the same speed.
APurpleCow
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1372 Posts
July 07 2009 00:04 GMT
#57
On July 07 2009 08:48 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 08:34 APurpleCow wrote:
On July 07 2009 07:30 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.


You sure about that?

I've seen a scourge catch up and kill a corsair that was running away from it many times. In my experience scourge are VERY slightly faster than Corsair.

I use queens sometimes against Sair/DT, Sair/Reavers, and 2 port Wraith for Ensnare. They're always pretty awesome.

Yes, I am very sure about it as I have witnessed my scourge chase corsairs over the entire length of Destination with the distance between my scourge and the corsairs stay exactly the same until I had to pull them back before they run into cannons.

They're exactly the same speed.


I just tested it.

With a corsair moving straight at full speed, no commands being given to it, and a Scourge chasing it, the Scourge will catch up VERY VERY VERY slowly.
Probe.
Profile Joined May 2009
United States877 Posts
July 07 2009 00:12 GMT
#58
On July 07 2009 09:04 APurpleCow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 08:48 koreasilver wrote:
On July 07 2009 08:34 APurpleCow wrote:
On July 07 2009 07:30 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.


You sure about that?

I've seen a scourge catch up and kill a corsair that was running away from it many times. In my experience scourge are VERY slightly faster than Corsair.

I use queens sometimes against Sair/DT, Sair/Reavers, and 2 port Wraith for Ensnare. They're always pretty awesome.

Yes, I am very sure about it as I have witnessed my scourge chase corsairs over the entire length of Destination with the distance between my scourge and the corsairs stay exactly the same until I had to pull them back before they run into cannons.

They're exactly the same speed.


I just tested it.

With a corsair moving straight at full speed, no commands being given to it, and a Scourge chasing it, the Scourge will catch up VERY VERY VERY slowly.


scourge is faster unless corsair flies diagonal. Trust me.
meow
Mobius
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1268 Posts
July 07 2009 00:36 GMT
#59
On July 07 2009 09:12 Probe. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 09:04 APurpleCow wrote:
On July 07 2009 08:48 koreasilver wrote:
On July 07 2009 08:34 APurpleCow wrote:
On July 07 2009 07:30 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.


You sure about that?

I've seen a scourge catch up and kill a corsair that was running away from it many times. In my experience scourge are VERY slightly faster than Corsair.

I use queens sometimes against Sair/DT, Sair/Reavers, and 2 port Wraith for Ensnare. They're always pretty awesome.

Yes, I am very sure about it as I have witnessed my scourge chase corsairs over the entire length of Destination with the distance between my scourge and the corsairs stay exactly the same until I had to pull them back before they run into cannons.

They're exactly the same speed.


I just tested it.

With a corsair moving straight at full speed, no commands being given to it, and a Scourge chasing it, the Scourge will catch up VERY VERY VERY slowly.


scourge is faster unless corsair flies diagonal. Trust me.

this
Entusman #51
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
July 07 2009 00:37 GMT
#60
surprised ensnare is not used more really. i mean surely the slowing down of attack/speed is worth the cost. plus good against sairs, and sneaky parasites of units in base can give you constant eyes on whats going on
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#89
IntoTheiNu 1498
WardiTV1111
Rex152
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 307
LamboSC2 174
Rex 152
ProTech81
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 5940
Mini 1263
EffOrt 1022
Jaedong 829
Backho 379
Light 293
actioN 247
Leta 189
Soulkey 171
Zeus 153
[ Show more ]
Pusan 73
hero 70
ToSsGirL 63
[sc1f]eonzerg 53
Aegong 39
PianO 35
sSak 29
zelot 22
IntoTheRainbow 16
soO 15
JulyZerg 14
Sacsri 12
Noble 11
Shine 11
Movie 11
sorry 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Icarus 5
Dota 2
qojqva1985
Dendi1790
XaKoH 482
Counter-Strike
byalli1793
kRYSTAL_55
Other Games
singsing3422
B2W.Neo1256
hiko947
Lowko547
Mew2King61
Hui .43
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV190
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 58
• iHatsuTV 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• mYiSmile10
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV334
League of Legends
• Jankos2799
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
2h 8m
Replay Cast
10h 8m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 8m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
21h 8m
Maestros of the Game
1d 1h
The PondCast
1d 20h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 21h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
2 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
GSL
5 days
herO vs Rogue
Maru vs Cure
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.