• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:06
CEST 17:06
KST 00:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash6[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy11ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample ASL21 General Discussion RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site KK Platform will provide 1 million CNY
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group C [ASL21] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1911 users

[G] Queen Hydra in ZvP - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
July 06 2009 21:22 GMT
#41
Not to mention you will either get rolled, or the protoss will take a 3rd without you being able to do much about it, if you are saving up 800/800 for queens. You can do this with mutas because mutas are instantly effective against HT/zealots etc.
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
Probe.
Profile Joined May 2009
United States877 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-06 22:37:29
July 06 2009 22:28 GMT
#42
If queen were good progamers would use them more often. It's as simple as that.

edit: i wish i played more zergs that thought like OP.
meow
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-06 22:31:09
July 06 2009 22:30 GMT
#43
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.
generic88
Profile Joined December 2008
United States118 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-06 22:56:55
July 06 2009 22:55 GMT
#44
On July 07 2009 07:28 Probe. wrote:
If queen were good progamers would use them more often. It's as simple as that.

edit: i wish i played more zergs that thought like OP.


If Valkyries were good progamers would use them more often. It's as simple as that.

If you don't get what I'm saying it is this, Valkyries have only been being used more often in TvZ very recently. The game is still changing and Pro-gamers are not the only ones capable of developing new strategies.
Arrian
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States889 Posts
July 06 2009 22:55 GMT
#45
I played a ZvP on Andromeda the other day where I made queens. At first it was because he'd turtled so hard, I'd taken the map, and I had no scout on him or his army whatsoever so I parasited the neutral kakaroo thing and waited for it to fly over his base. It took so long that I just parasited the first thing I saw in his base, which happened to be a corsair.

Turns out he was going carriers. Instead of overreacting and building a ton of devourers, I built about 15 queens and started moving them around his base in a taunt. Then I built a lot of devourers. I'd say that's pretty close to the most useful a queen has ever been for me.
Writersator arepo tenet opera rotas
Mobius
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1268 Posts
July 06 2009 23:09 GMT
#46
150min/gas for brood is a huge investment in the beginning of the game..
Entusman #51
Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
July 06 2009 23:17 GMT
#47
It was an interesting guide, but i think that queens could be used more effectively if ensnare was simply used.

Zerg units have a higher ROF and DPS than protoss units, and really ensnare is just going to make this difference even more pronounced. Goon micro would be pointless, and because ensnare is only 100/100 and 2/3 queens 100/100 I feel that it could be a very viable thing to do during the midlate / early late game.

Just simply cut out a muta or two or delay your lurker upgrade (if you are playing 5 hatch hydra)

That i think would easily be able to benefit zerg in the late game. You will still have the muta out, and the protoss army is going to be severely hampered.

Really i feel that heavy queen use could be a great counter to mass range goon templar. Just for the simple fact of the ROF and DPS difference that ensnared goons would be dealing with against hydra. In that respect i feel that the queen could be the most useful. However broodling is just too much of an investment, and the 150mp cost is too great.

Once again- nice guide and thanks for the great writeup it was very thought provoking.
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
July 06 2009 23:29 GMT
#48
On July 07 2009 07:28 Probe. wrote:
If queen were good progamers would use them more often. It's as simple as that.

edit: i wish i played more zergs that thought like OP.

Read jaedong's interview on queens and ensnare. Yes broodling sucks but even jaedong thinks ensnare could be quite good.

He basically says it could be very good but not even he has the apm to do everything that needs to be done AND use queens effectively but he works on it in practice sometimes.

So not its not that simple. Besides parasite is very useful. If youve started hive, might as well make a queen to be honest. Just for the parasite and possible cc infest. So many games I get a cc to yellow and think hey...if only I had a queen right now...
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
July 06 2009 23:32 GMT
#49
On July 07 2009 07:30 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.

Ya thought that one was pretty freaking obvious lol.

Ever chased a sair across the map with 2 scourge?

Ever watched any pro zvp in the last 6 months? It's pretty clear they are exactly the same speed.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
July 06 2009 23:33 GMT
#50
On July 07 2009 07:55 Arrian wrote:
I played a ZvP on Andromeda the other day where I made queens. At first it was because he'd turtled so hard, I'd taken the map, and I had no scout on him or his army whatsoever so I parasited the neutral kakaroo thing and waited for it to fly over his base. It took so long that I just parasited the first thing I saw in his base, which happened to be a corsair.

Turns out he was going carriers. Instead of overreacting and building a ton of devourers, I built about 15 queens and started moving them around his base in a taunt. Then I built a lot of devourers. I'd say that's pretty close to the most useful a queen has ever been for me.

Ok so basically what youre trying to say is that you suck at bw?

I see I see...very interesting.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
APurpleCow
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1372 Posts
July 06 2009 23:34 GMT
#51
On July 07 2009 07:30 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.


You sure about that?

I've seen a scourge catch up and kill a corsair that was running away from it many times. In my experience scourge are VERY slightly faster than Corsair.

I use queens sometimes against Sair/DT, Sair/Reavers, and 2 port Wraith for Ensnare. They're always pretty awesome.
Arrian
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States889 Posts
July 06 2009 23:39 GMT
#52
On July 07 2009 08:33 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 07:55 Arrian wrote:
I played a ZvP on Andromeda the other day where I made queens. At first it was because he'd turtled so hard, I'd taken the map, and I had no scout on him or his army whatsoever so I parasited the neutral kakaroo thing and waited for it to fly over his base. It took so long that I just parasited the first thing I saw in his base, which happened to be a corsair.

Turns out he was going carriers. Instead of overreacting and building a ton of devourers, I built about 15 queens and started moving them around his base in a taunt. Then I built a lot of devourers. I'd say that's pretty close to the most useful a queen has ever been for me.

Ok so basically what youre trying to say is that you suck at bw?

I see I see...very interesting.


I challenge you to a ZvZ queens only to defend my honor! If nothing else, my queen taunting micro is unrivaled. You cannot hope to win, because my broodlings are magical and never run out of energy.
Writersator arepo tenet opera rotas
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
July 06 2009 23:40 GMT
#53
I'd just ensnare DTs to reveal them instead of using parasite to reveal them in most cases.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
July 06 2009 23:41 GMT
#54
No. Scourge are not faster.

In those instances the P probably made a slight turn torwards the angle the scourge was comming from since the scourge was probably RIGHT behind it the scourge caught up.

If scourge really were slightly faster than they would ALWAYS catch a sair running in a staight line across the map but instead they NEVER do. Keep in mind, the sair path has to be perfectly straight and if it does turn it needs to be a sharp angle/an angle away from the angle the scourge is comming at.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
Probe.
Profile Joined May 2009
United States877 Posts
July 06 2009 23:41 GMT
#55
On July 07 2009 08:29 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 07:28 Probe. wrote:
If queen were good progamers would use them more often. It's as simple as that.

edit: i wish i played more zergs that thought like OP.

Read jaedong's interview on queens and ensnare. Yes broodling sucks but even jaedong thinks ensnare could be quite good.

He basically says it could be very good but not even he has the apm to do everything that needs to be done AND use queens effectively but he works on it in practice sometimes.

So not its not that simple. Besides parasite is very useful. If youve started hive, might as well make a queen to be honest. Just for the parasite and possible cc infest. So many games I get a cc to yellow and think hey...if only I had a queen right now...


Look if jaedong can't use queens effectively, no one can. GIVE UP.
meow
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
July 06 2009 23:48 GMT
#56
On July 07 2009 08:34 APurpleCow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 07:30 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.


You sure about that?

I've seen a scourge catch up and kill a corsair that was running away from it many times. In my experience scourge are VERY slightly faster than Corsair.

I use queens sometimes against Sair/DT, Sair/Reavers, and 2 port Wraith for Ensnare. They're always pretty awesome.

Yes, I am very sure about it as I have witnessed my scourge chase corsairs over the entire length of Destination with the distance between my scourge and the corsairs stay exactly the same until I had to pull them back before they run into cannons.

They're exactly the same speed.
APurpleCow
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1372 Posts
July 07 2009 00:04 GMT
#57
On July 07 2009 08:48 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 08:34 APurpleCow wrote:
On July 07 2009 07:30 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.


You sure about that?

I've seen a scourge catch up and kill a corsair that was running away from it many times. In my experience scourge are VERY slightly faster than Corsair.

I use queens sometimes against Sair/DT, Sair/Reavers, and 2 port Wraith for Ensnare. They're always pretty awesome.

Yes, I am very sure about it as I have witnessed my scourge chase corsairs over the entire length of Destination with the distance between my scourge and the corsairs stay exactly the same until I had to pull them back before they run into cannons.

They're exactly the same speed.


I just tested it.

With a corsair moving straight at full speed, no commands being given to it, and a Scourge chasing it, the Scourge will catch up VERY VERY VERY slowly.
Probe.
Profile Joined May 2009
United States877 Posts
July 07 2009 00:12 GMT
#58
On July 07 2009 09:04 APurpleCow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 08:48 koreasilver wrote:
On July 07 2009 08:34 APurpleCow wrote:
On July 07 2009 07:30 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.


You sure about that?

I've seen a scourge catch up and kill a corsair that was running away from it many times. In my experience scourge are VERY slightly faster than Corsair.

I use queens sometimes against Sair/DT, Sair/Reavers, and 2 port Wraith for Ensnare. They're always pretty awesome.

Yes, I am very sure about it as I have witnessed my scourge chase corsairs over the entire length of Destination with the distance between my scourge and the corsairs stay exactly the same until I had to pull them back before they run into cannons.

They're exactly the same speed.


I just tested it.

With a corsair moving straight at full speed, no commands being given to it, and a Scourge chasing it, the Scourge will catch up VERY VERY VERY slowly.


scourge is faster unless corsair flies diagonal. Trust me.
meow
Mobius
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1268 Posts
July 07 2009 00:36 GMT
#59
On July 07 2009 09:12 Probe. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2009 09:04 APurpleCow wrote:
On July 07 2009 08:48 koreasilver wrote:
On July 07 2009 08:34 APurpleCow wrote:
On July 07 2009 07:30 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it just better to spend money on mutas as mutas can not only snipe high templars, but are also better for use in buying time by harassing their base and forcing them to make cannons in their minlines, forcing the protoss to make archons, etc.

On July 07 2009 05:23 Nevuk wrote:
Scourge are definitely faster than sairs.

They're the same speed.


You sure about that?

I've seen a scourge catch up and kill a corsair that was running away from it many times. In my experience scourge are VERY slightly faster than Corsair.

I use queens sometimes against Sair/DT, Sair/Reavers, and 2 port Wraith for Ensnare. They're always pretty awesome.

Yes, I am very sure about it as I have witnessed my scourge chase corsairs over the entire length of Destination with the distance between my scourge and the corsairs stay exactly the same until I had to pull them back before they run into cannons.

They're exactly the same speed.


I just tested it.

With a corsair moving straight at full speed, no commands being given to it, and a Scourge chasing it, the Scourge will catch up VERY VERY VERY slowly.


scourge is faster unless corsair flies diagonal. Trust me.

this
Entusman #51
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
July 07 2009 00:37 GMT
#60
surprised ensnare is not used more really. i mean surely the slowing down of attack/speed is worth the cost. plus good against sairs, and sneaky parasites of units in base can give you constant eyes on whats going on
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#80
WardiTV1140
OGKoka 353
Rex120
IntoTheiNu 19
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 349
Hui .324
ProTech120
Rex 114
Trikslyr24
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 4281
Bisu 1717
actioN 1494
EffOrt 1143
ggaemo 554
Hyuk 448
firebathero 427
Sharp 209
Soulkey 145
Snow 141
[ Show more ]
Zeus 122
Sea.KH 97
ToSsGirL 89
[sc1f]eonzerg 72
Backho 67
Hyun 62
Hm[arnc] 44
Shine 22
Bale 17
soO 17
yabsab 14
Noble 12
GoRush 12
SilentControl 7
Terrorterran 5
eros_byul 1
Dota 2
qojqva4157
syndereN670
Counter-Strike
oskar76
Other Games
singsing2461
B2W.Neo1532
hiko712
Lowko372
crisheroes335
Livibee315
ceh9237
Fuzer 180
Happy170
ArmadaUGS136
Sick93
Mew2King31
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV301
League of Legends
• Nemesis3673
• Jankos3003
• TFBlade1229
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
54m
Replay Cast
8h 54m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18h 54m
Afreeca Starleague
18h 54m
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
PiGosaur Cup
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 18h
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
TriGGeR vs Cure
ByuN vs Rogue
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.