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On April 25 2009 08:23 arb wrote:
Does it cost more if you repair with more scvs?
Yes, but not by much. When an SCV is healing that last little bit of health they will charge for a full repair cycle, so that last cycle isn't as efficient in terms of health per cost. If you have a bunch of SCVs repairing the same thing, they will all have charged for an inefficient last repair cycle.
As an extreme example, if a CC is at 1490 health, you can have one SCV repair it in just under one cycle (~.8 seconds) for 1 mineral, or you can have 10 SCVs all repair it at the same time in just under a tenth of a cycle (~.08 seconds) but 10 minerals (1 mineral each). The counterpart to this will be when the CC has enough damage on it for 10 repair cycles, so each of the 10 SCVs will be efficient and cost nothing extra over one SCV.
On average, I figure each SCV will waste half a repair cycle worth of resources when they finish, so that can give an idea of how much each extra repairing SCV will cost you. This would only be half a mineral and gas on a Siege Tank per SCV, for instance, so it doesn't really matter compared to lost mining time and other concerns.
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You guys seriously have nothing better to do than analyzing repair cost!?
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On April 25 2009 11:20 ZeKk wrote:
You guys seriously have nothing better to do than analyzing repair cost!?
you got a problem with people contributing to the community?
what's wrong with studying the best game in the world?
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On April 24 2009 20:47 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 11:41 Grobyc wrote:Okay I got totally confused in my testing, and I have to go soon but I made a UMS map for testing it which can be found here: http://files.filefront.com/test33scx/;13648175;/fileinfo.htmlSome things to note:- Operation cwal + changing the build time of the unit/building DOES AFFECT THE REPAIR COST- Sending any unit to the beacon automatically sets your resource count(mineral and gas) to exactly 1000 each time. This is for setting a number that is high enough and easily recordable for seeing how much it cost to repair. - The marine and ghost have modified damages incase you want to attack one of your units, reducing it's health so you can do another trial on it or something. - I put duplicates of every mech unit, one with 100% health and the other set with 1% health. - The factory and starport are there for building more units, in the case that you accidently killed your own or something.
Some things I noted in my little bit of testing:- siege tank(150/100) had a repair cost of a ratio 1:1 with minerals to gas, EVEN THOUGH it is more mineral heavy than gas. - I tried repairing a goliath(100,50) and it cost more minerals(i believe, or maybe it was gas) to repair than gas. I.E not a 1:1 mineral:gas ratio like the siege tank. it was more like 1.4:1 or something. - When I changed the goliaths unit cost to 150/100 like the tank, it DID REPAIR AT A 1:1 RATIO. now thats what I call a scientific approach
lol thanks.
On April 25 2009 11:20 ZeKk wrote:
You guys seriously have nothing better to do than analyzing repair cost!?
gtfo
On April 24 2009 22:45 jeppew wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 11:41 Grobyc wrote:Okay I got totally confused in my testing, and I have to go soon but I made a UMS map for testing it which can be found here: http://files.filefront.com/test33scx/;13648175;/fileinfo.htmlSome things to note:- Operation cwal + changing the build time of the unit/building DOES AFFECT THE REPAIR COST- Sending any unit to the beacon automatically sets your resource count(mineral and gas) to exactly 1000 each time. This is for setting a number that is high enough and easily recordable for seeing how much it cost to repair. - The marine and ghost have modified damages incase you want to attack one of your units, reducing it's health so you can do another trial on it or something. - I put duplicates of every mech unit, one with 100% health and the other set with 1% health. - The factory and starport are there for building more units, in the case that you accidently killed your own or something.
Some things I noted in my little bit of testing:- siege tank(150/100) had a repair cost of a ratio 1:1 with minerals to gas, EVEN THOUGH it is more mineral heavy than gas. - I tried repairing a goliath(100,50) and it cost more minerals(i believe, or maybe it was gas) to repair than gas. I.E not a 1:1 mineral:gas ratio like the siege tank. it was more like 1.4:1 or something. - When I changed the goliaths unit cost to 150/100 like the tank, it DID REPAIR AT A 1:1 RATIO. maybe the cost of repairing 1hp is (mineralcost)*k/MaxHp for minerals and 1.5*(gascost)*k/MaxHp for gas. where k is some konstant, so if k was 1 then repairing a tank from half hp would cost 75/75. but, i would guess that k is probably somewhere around 0.2 so repairing a unit from 1hp to max should cost somewhere around 0.2 minerals of it's cost and 0.3 gas. edit; didn't read the cwal part, sry. so construction speed is a factor aswell, does the cost increase the quicker the unit is built or the other way around?
It was cheaper. Something like 2/3 or 1/2 of the cost of what it would be without cwal on I think; I'm not too sure though, I didn't save the results. I just know there was a difference.
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On April 25 2009 11:20 ZeKk wrote:
You guys seriously have nothing better to do than analyzing repair cost!?
You seriously have nothing better to do than critisize other peoples hard work at helping answer a sc question made by someone from the sc community on a sc site?
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This is an interesting thread. I never realized how much gas it cost to repair science vessels. i wonder if this is why you rarely see players repair SVs during late-game TvZ: the cost benefit may not be worth the loss of utility and APM.
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Seems like you get the build time when you divide normal speed build time with 1,6.
+ Show Spoiler [build time] +Unit/Normal/Fastest
Vulture/30s/18,75s
Goliath/40s/25s
Tank/50s/31,25s
SCV/20s/12,5s
Wraith/60s/37,5s
Vessel/80s/50s
Dropship/50s/31,25s
BC/133s/83,12s
Valkyrie/50s/31,25s
Building/Normal/Fastest
CC/120s/75s
Depot/40s/25s
Refinery/40s/25s
Barracks/80s/50s
Academy/80s/50s
Factory/80s/50s
Starport/70s/43,75s
Facility/60s/37,5s
EBay/60s/37,5s
Armory/80s/50s
Turret/30s/18,75s
Bunker/30s/18,75s
Addons/40s/25s
Silo/80s/50s
Also here's the repair costs for buildings.
+ Show Spoiler [repair cost] +CC: 1-1500hp
Minerals: 128
%of new: 31,25
Supply Depot: 1-500hp
Minerals: 28
%of new: 35,7
Bunker: 1-350hp
Minerals: 24
%of new: 41,6
Turret: 1-200hp
Minerals: 26
%of new: 28,8
Barracks: 1-1000hp
Minerals: 50
%of new: 30
Refinery: 1-750hp
Minerals: 32
%of new: 31,25
Engineering Bay: 1-850hp
Minerals: 42
%of new: 29,76
academy: 1-600hp
Minerals: 50
%of new: 30
Factory: 1-1250hp
Minerals/Gas: 68/34
%of new: 29,41/29,41
Armory: 1-750hp
Minerals/Gas: 36/18
%of new: 27,7/27,7
Starport:1-1300hp
Minerals/Gas: 34/34
%of new: 44,1/29,4
Science Facility: 1-850hp
Minerals/Gas: 34/34
%of new: 29,4/44,1
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Damn this is a really nice thread. I always felt like every time I repaired, I was throwing away resources that I could have spent on more units. Kudos to all the work put in here!
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Interesting thread, never knew most of this stuff.
On April 25 2009 01:48 [GMTA]_HumBug wrote:
BTW has anyone though how an SCV can repair air units but cant atack them?! a mystery to be solved...
I've always wondered about this and came to the conclusion that the air unit must, not land, but fly really low for the duration of the repair, lol.
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I know this is more of a scientific and stats-based discussion here, but I feel that repairing your units, while not always the most cost effective action in every situation, can have a very detrimental effect on your opponent's psyche.
The feeling of frustration that it can give them to see your units lasting longer than they expected is worth more than just a few minerals in some cases and can potentially lead to mistakes and wasted actions/attention on their part.
This does, of course, vary immensely from player to player, so can not be scientifically proven, but I feel that it is definitely a factor worth bearing in mind.
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On April 25 2009 19:41 latent wrote:
This is an interesting thread. I never realized how much gas it cost to repair science vessels. i wonder if this is why you rarely see players repair SVs during late-game TvZ: the cost benefit may not be worth the loss of utility and APM.
?????
It doesn't cost much at all.
In fact, pound for pound, it costs less gas to repair than any other unit shown in this thread so far.
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So seeing repair costs are small in sc terms, it seems that the more important questions is:
"How many scv's does it take to repair a tank so it will survive another hit from a dragoon?"
or
"How many scv's does it take to repair a tank so it will survive more hits from a dragoon until it can fire an extra time?"
With these questions you as a terran player can quickly make a decision if its worth it to pull scvs and repair a tank or not. If i pull scvs to repair, will my tank be able to fire again? Otherwise it is useless to send scv's to repair. Ofc 1 goon vs 1 tank is just a single scenario, what if more tanks? What if more goons? What if other units are mixed in?? Seems to me these questions answered could lead to a terran guide if and how many scv's to send along a push or to pull of from mining to repair a tank.
EDIT: I am not a terran player, so i will not put in the work to solve these complex problems, but it seems like you can eventually get some basic rules of thumb out of it at least. e.g. send 1 scv per tank with a push or 1 scv repairing a tank per goon firing upon it or something like that.
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On April 25 2009 07:33 SirNukes wrote:
It will cost more and, it seems, repair slower since there is a tiny delay after giving the repair order and the SCV starting repairs. A 50% bunker took 10 seconds and 17 minerals to repair normally, while a spam-clicked 50% bunker took 15 seconds and 104 minerals to repair for me. If you click fast enough you can stop the SCV from repairing because it will be stuck in that tiny delay. In theory, I think you could click just right so that the SCV only repairs 1 health each time, meaning a 50% bunker would take 175 minerals to repair.
Thanks again; that's a really good takeaway from this. I'm pretty sure I've spammed repair before, and had no idea it was actually counterproductive.
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Can an allied T repair, say, toss buildings?
Just curious.
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On April 26 2009 00:35 jeddus wrote:
Can an allied T repair, say, toss buildings?
Just curious.
No, they can only repair terran units
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On April 26 2009 00:35 jeddus wrote:
Can an allied T repair, say, toss buildings?
Just curious.
You cannot repair toss buildings....
+ Show Spoiler +Even if you mind controlled an SCV
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On April 26 2009 01:06 Michaelj wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2009 00:35 jeddus wrote:
Can an allied T repair, say, toss buildings?
Just curious. No, they can only repair terran units
and power generators..
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itd be cool if scvs could repair bunkers from the inside
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On April 26 2009 07:28 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2009 01:06 Michaelj wrote:On April 26 2009 00:35 jeddus wrote:
Can an allied T repair, say, toss buildings?
Just curious. No, they can only repair terran units and power generators..
Power generators do count as Terran buildings. Go into the editor, they are under Terran > Special Buildings.
On April 26 2009 08:13 travis wrote:
itd be cool if scvs could repair bunkers from the inside
Indeed :D
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On April 24 2009 08:40 Zoler wrote:
I think its 1 mineral for 1 hp.
Typical zoler reply, haha. Read the thread before commenting dude.
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EPT
