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I was just wondering if the cost to repair a damaged building/unit follows a specific formula. Obviously more expensive things will cost more to repair, but would something that costs 200min/100gas cost say 100min/50gas to repair from 1 hp?
Update: Unit repair info:
+ Show Spoiler +
Siege tank: 1-150hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/33
%of new: 22/33
SCV: 1-60hp
Minerals: 17
%of new: 34
Goliath: 1-125
Minerals/Gas: 34/17
%of new: 34/34
Vulture: 1-80hp
Minerals: 25
%of new: 33
Valkyrie: 1-200hp
Minerals/Gas: 84/42
%of new: 34/34
Wraith: 1-120hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/33
%of new: 22/33
Science Vessel: 1-200hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/66
%of new: 33/29
Dropship: 1-150hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/33
%of new: 33/33
Battlecruiser: 1-500hp
Minerals/Gas: 96/96
%of new: 24/32
Update: Building repair info:
+ Show Spoiler +
CC: 1-1500hp
Minerals: 128
%of new: 31,25
Supply Depot: 1-500hp
Minerals: 28
%of new: 35,7
Bunker: 1-350hp
Minerals: 24
%of new: 41,6
Turret: 1-200hp
Minerals: 26
%of new: 28,8
Barracks: 1-1000hp
Minerals: 50
%of new: 30
Refinery: 1-750hp
Minerals: 32
%of new: 31,25
Engineering Bay: 1-850hp
Minerals: 42
%of new: 29,76
academy: 1-600hp
Minerals: 50
%of new: 30
Factory: 1-1250hp
Minerals/Gas: 68/34
%of new: 29,41/29,41
Armory: 1-750hp
Minerals/Gas: 36/18
%of new: 27,7/27,7
Starport:1-1300hp
Minerals/Gas: 34/34
%of new: 44,1/29,4
Science Facility: 1-850hp
Minerals/Gas: 34/34
%of new: 29,4/44,1
Thanks to Jiiks for the repair info
Thanks to everyone for their theorycrafting/two cents
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i think its 1 min /1 gas for 2hp..though im not sure
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i think its only like something like 2 minerals per HP or something. Havent tested it but it isn't anything big i assume
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I know it takes no gas, and its probably like 5 hp per mineral
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Sry, tried googling noone knows the exact cost lol
people just keep saying, the more it cost, the more to repair, basically useless stuff like that.
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United States42416 Posts
I often wonder this too when I'm just setting fire to stuff aimlessly early game in PvT. I think it'd be really interesting if a unit cost significantly more to repair from 1 hp than to replace because it'd mean that repair should only be used when unit production is limited and a boost in unit count is essential, such as a timing push or a desperate defence. Whether to repair or not would become a great benefit/cost question which players would have to deal with in split second decisions.
I expect it's cheaper to repair though. 
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On April 24 2009 08:19 Kwark wrote:I often wonder this too when I'm just setting fire to stuff aimlessly early game in PvT. I think it'd be really interesting if a unit cost significantly more to repair from 1 hp than to replace because it'd mean that repair should only be used when unit production is limited and a boost in unit count is essential, such as a timing push or a desperate defence. Whether to repair or not would become a great benefit/cost question which players would have to deal with in split second decisions. I expect it's cheaper to repair though.
Or choosing which base to attack at the wall-in to make the biggest (albeit small) economic impact.
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CA10825 Posts
On April 24 2009 08:12 Azrael1111 wrote:
I know it takes no gas, and its probably like 5 hp per mineral
i don't think that's right.
buildings that only cost minerals will not cost any gas to repair. however advanced structures that cost gas to build will use gas to repair. i think it's the same with units as well.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On April 24 2009 08:28 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 08:12 Azrael1111 wrote:
I know it takes no gas, and its probably like 5 hp per mineral i don't think that's right. buildings that only cost minerals will not cost any gas to repair. however advanced structures that cost gas to build will use gas to repair. i think it's the same with units as well.
So wait, tanks cost gas to repair? Funny, thought it was only minerals.
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On April 24 2009 08:11 MuR)Ernu wrote:
i think its only like something like 2 minerals per HP or something. Havent tested it but it isn't anything big i assume
That would be a lot... A battlecruiser has 500HP. If it had 1 life and you repaired it to 500 according to your answer that would be just about 1000$ to repair. This obviously isn't the case, I would think it's maybe something like 1 mineral/gas per 2 or 3 HP like mentioned before.
Also, note: Buildings repair faster than units; I don't know if that has anything to do with it but yeahhhhh. Different units/buildings repair faster than others.
I'm pretty sure the cost and repair rate are unit specific though. Repairing 100HP of a battlecruiser costs more than 100HP of a siege tank, even though they both cost minerals + cast.
Someone want to test this?
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Some empirical testing..
supply depot from 20 hp to 500 hp - 33 mineral
barrack from 20 hp to 1000 hp - 51 mineral
factory from 10 hp to 1250 hp - 68 min, 34 gas
It generally seems to cost 1/3 of the minerals/gas it costs to build, in order to repair something from scratch. It also seems to be a linear function of how much hp you repar
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If it costs gas to build it, you need gas to repair it.
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On April 24 2009 08:30 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 08:28 LosingID8 wrote:On April 24 2009 08:12 Azrael1111 wrote:
I know it takes no gas, and its probably like 5 hp per mineral i don't think that's right. buildings that only cost minerals will not cost any gas to repair. however advanced structures that cost gas to build will use gas to repair. i think it's the same with units as well. So wait, tanks cost gas to repair? Funny, thought it was only minerals.
Nope, they cost gas as well. like LID said, primary buildings only cost minerals to repair because none of the primary buildings cost gas, so no gas is used to repair. I'm pretty sure the most expensive buildings cost more minerals+gas to repair than other buildings if you used a ratio.
Ex: factory(200,100) costs 4minerals + 2gas to repair 25 HP.
However science facility(150,200) costs 3minerals + 4gas to repair 25 HP.
The science facility costs more gas to produce, so to repair it it costs more gas than a factory, even though they both require some amount of gas. These are just examples I made, but I assume it works in this fashion.
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I think its 1 mineral for 1 hp.
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Just performed a quick test.
Buildings:
0.043 minerals/HP
0.023 gas/HP
Units:
0.172 minerals/HP
0.517 gas/HP
It only costs gas if the original entity cost gas.
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Can you seriously not test this yourself? Do you own starcraft?
I'll do your work for you.
Repairing a siege tank from 1 hp to 150 hp-
Trial 1: 26m 26g
Trial 2: 26m 26g
Trial 3: 26m 26g
HP per Mineral: 5.73
HP per Gas: 5.73
Cost of full repair in terms of % of Unit cost(mineral): 17.3%
Cost of full repair in terms of % of Unit cost(gas): 26%
Cost of full repair in terms of % of Unit cost(Total): 34.6%
Repairing a vulture from 1 hp to 80hp-
Trial 1: 16m 0g
Trial 2: 16m 0g
Trial 3: 16m 0g
HP per Mineral: 4.94
HP per Gas: 0
Cost of full repair in terms of % of Unit cost(mineral): 21.3%
Cost of full repair in terms of % of Unit cost(gas): n/a
Cost of full repair in terms of % of Unit cost(Total): 21.3%
Repairing a goliath from 1hp to 125hp
Trial 1: 28m 14g
Trial 2: 28m 14g
Trial 3: 28m 14g
HP per Mineral: 4.43
HP per Gas: 8.85
Cost of full repair in terms of % of Unit cost(mineral): 28%
Cost of full repair in terms of % of Unit cost(gas): 28%
Cost of full repair in terms of % of Unit cost(Total): 28%
Conclusions
Units that cost only minerals require only minerals to repair. Units that cost both gas and minerals require both resources to repair. Health appears to be restored at a rate of 4-6 units of health per mineral. I am unable to identify the exact algorithm used from quick inspection.
Practical application
In game it's always better to repair. This doesn't have to do with cost analysis or anything, it's just always better to have the unit now than remake it later. The mining time lost is negligible.
**I tested in single player with operation cwal turned on. If this makes a difference in the exact numbers I don't really care, someone else can do it  The main point is that units only require the resources required to create them to repair, and it is always significantly cheaper to repair.
Edit: I see a lot of people posted before me while testing. Good work  A few things I noticed: people testing on buildings are making a mistake. These buildings are burning at the values you tested off and will cause your answers to be slightly off. Also you guys testing with only one unit need to consider this and try with multiple units. I have already shown that the repair rate appears to be different for different units.
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On April 24 2009 08:40 Zoler wrote:
I think its 1 mineral for 1 hp.
That's why people repair 1500 hp command centers when they cost 400 minerals to build.
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On April 24 2009 08:42 APurpleCow wrote:
Just performed a quick test.
Buildings:
0.043 minerals/HP = 23.25 hp / mineral ~ 25
0.023 gas/HP = 43.47 hp / mineral ~ 45
Units:
0.172 minerals/HP = 5.81 hp / mineral ~ 6
0.517 gas/HP = 1.93 hp / mineral ~ 2
It only costs gas if the original entity cost gas.
>_> better units
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On April 24 2009 08:46 deathgod6 wrote:That's why people repair 1500 hp command centers when they cost 400 minerals to build.
obviously ;D
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United States42416 Posts
If the cost is related to building cost, as suggested, and not to raw hp value then damage done to a supply depot will cost more to repair than the same damage done to a barracks because the hp to cost ratio of a depot is worse. I think that's really pretty interesting.
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On April 24 2009 08:52 Kwark wrote:
If the cost is related to building cost, as suggested, and not to raw hp value then damage done to a supply depot will cost more to repair than the same damage done to a barracks because the hp to cost ratio of a depot is worse. I think that's really pretty interesting.
It's interesting, however it still doesn't change much. A supply depot obviously demands more immediate attention when attacked early game than the barracks. A barracks me be repaired much more casually and probably has less effective cost to repair.
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Bold clarification: Repair cost depends on the unit being repaired.
I'm quoting for truth:
Some empirical testing..
supply depot from 20 hp to 500 hp - 33 mineral
barrack from 20 hp to 1000 hp - 51 mineral
factory from 10 hp to 1250 hp - 68 min, 34 gas
It generally seems to cost 1/3 of the minerals/gas it costs to build, in order to repair something from scratch. It also seems to be a linear function of how much hp you repar
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Science vessels, i'm pretty sure, get repaired tons more slowly.
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I tested a tank and SCV for the units and a CC, supply depot, and factory for the buildings.All came out with the same answer +/- ~3%.
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i think it's something like 5 minerals per HP. not much at all.
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On April 24 2009 08:46 deathgod6 wrote:That's why people repair 1500 hp command centers when they cost 400 minerals to build.
sounds totally logical
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On April 24 2009 09:30 RoieTRS wrote:
Science vessels, i'm pretty sure, get repaired tons more slowly.
lol I also get that feel
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On April 24 2009 09:46 dirtnap wrote:
i think it's something like 5 minerals per HP. not much at all.
do you idiots even read the thread
1. it's dependent on which unit or building
2. YEAH CAUSE A SUPPLY DEPOT WOULD TAKE 2500 MINERALS TO REPAIR ALL THE WAY
3. kill yourself
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Repair cost is proportional to unit cost. (at 1/3)
Repair time is proportional to build time. (at 1 per scv)
So to repair anything using 1 scv from nearly dead will cost 1/3 of its initial cost and last the same time as its initial build time.
It's pretty simple.
edit: ok, its apparently not always exactly 1/3. BC's cost 100/100 to repair from dead, so thats actually a bit cheaper because they cost 400/300. Most units seem to be 1/3 though.
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Calgary25977 Posts
On April 24 2009 08:35 Michaelj wrote:
Some empirical testing..
supply depot from 20 hp to 500 hp - 33 mineral
barrack from 20 hp to 1000 hp - 51 mineral
factory from 10 hp to 1250 hp - 68 min, 34 gas
It generally seems to cost 1/3 of the minerals/gas it costs to build, in order to repair something from scratch. It also seems to be a linear function of how much hp you repar
Thank you. 1/3 cost seems accurate for buildings, now we just need to see if units are the same. Also if the rates are comparable between units and buildings, and between lesser HP and higher HP things.
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Calgary25977 Posts
On April 24 2009 09:48 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 09:46 dirtnap wrote:
i think it's something like 5 minerals per HP. not much at all. do you idiots even read the thread 1. it's dependent on which unit or building 2. YEAH CAUSE A SUPPLY DEPOT WOULD TAKE 2500 MINERALS TO REPAIR ALL THE WAY 3. kill yourself
Alright, I get annoyed too but let's not go this far.
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CA10825 Posts
On April 24 2009 10:29 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 09:48 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On April 24 2009 09:46 dirtnap wrote:
i think it's something like 5 minerals per HP. not much at all. do you idiots even read the thread 1. it's dependent on which unit or building 2. YEAH CAUSE A SUPPLY DEPOT WOULD TAKE 2500 MINERALS TO REPAIR ALL THE WAY 3. kill yourself Alright, I get annoyed too but let's not go this far.
well other than #3 he was pretty spot on
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I'm pretty sure it's not solely based on cost of structure/unit. The repair time in itself is a cost. I did a quick test with a supply depot at 250/500 hp. Using map editor, when repair took 5secs (or 10, I forgot) to build, it cost 10 minerals. When it took 20 secs to build, it cost 16 minerals. Using 20 secs, I also adjusted the supply depot to a cost of 1000 minerals and it took almost 100 minerals to repair that 250 hp.
I don't know the formula but I'm pretty sure build time affects it from this testing.
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On April 24 2009 10:32 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 10:29 Chill wrote:On April 24 2009 09:48 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On April 24 2009 09:46 dirtnap wrote:
i think it's something like 5 minerals per HP. not much at all. do you idiots even read the thread 1. it's dependent on which unit or building 2. YEAH CAUSE A SUPPLY DEPOT WOULD TAKE 2500 MINERALS TO REPAIR ALL THE WAY 3. kill yourself Alright, I get annoyed too but let's not go this far. well other than #3 he was pretty spot on
Mhmmm <333 Tuna
He obviously didn't read the thread, but either way 5 minerals per HP is obviously not even close to the correct answer, it's pretty common sense when you look at the CC example or Tuna's 2nd note.
On April 24 2009 10:28 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 08:35 Michaelj wrote:
Some empirical testing..
supply depot from 20 hp to 500 hp - 33 mineral
barrack from 20 hp to 1000 hp - 51 mineral
factory from 10 hp to 1250 hp - 68 min, 34 gas
It generally seems to cost 1/3 of the minerals/gas it costs to build, in order to repair something from scratch. It also seems to be a linear function of how much hp you repar Thank you. 1/3 cost seems accurate for buildings, now we just need to see if buildings are the same. Also if the rates are comparable between units and buildings, and between lesser HP and higher HP things.
I agree that 1/3 the cost of buildings seems accurate, but there isn't a definite answer for units yet, unless it is completely unique to each unit. I have nothing else to do right now so I'm gonna go do some tests.
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For me it seemed to take 21 Minerals to repair half of 150Mineral buildings, and 9 minerals to repair half of a supply depot and half a turret.
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On April 24 2009 08:12 Azrael1111 wrote:
I know it takes no gas, and its probably like 5 hp per mineral
It takes gas once you get gas
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On April 24 2009 09:48 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 09:46 dirtnap wrote:
i think it's something like 5 minerals per HP. not much at all. do you idiots even read the thread 1. it's dependent on which unit or building 2. YEAH CAUSE A SUPPLY DEPOT WOULD TAKE 2500 MINERALS TO REPAIR ALL THE WAY 3. kill yourself
you obviously have no sense of humor or you would have noticed it was a joke and i was making fun of the other outrageous guesses of repair costs.
You get an A for effort though.
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CA10825 Posts
On April 24 2009 11:03 dirtnap wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 09:48 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On April 24 2009 09:46 dirtnap wrote:
i think it's something like 5 minerals per HP. not much at all. do you idiots even read the thread 1. it's dependent on which unit or building 2. YEAH CAUSE A SUPPLY DEPOT WOULD TAKE 2500 MINERALS TO REPAIR ALL THE WAY 3. kill yourself you obviously have no sense of humor or you would have noticed it was a joke and i was making fun of the other outrageous guesses of repair costs. You get an A for effort though.
i mean this completely honestly with no intention of offense but that type of humor doesn't really work on TL when you have a single digit post count
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some common sense would tell you that it doesnt cost more to repair something than to build a new one. repairing is cheaper than making a new one
it depends on the unit, as people have already mentioned. unit that costs gas to build would require gas to fix.
imagine that there's an scv inside each factory and they're using min and gas to build stuff. then on the battlefield, the scvs would need gas/min proportionate to the unit they're repair to fix something.
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so what about repair time?
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Okay I got totally confused in my testing, and I have to go soon but I made a UMS map for testing it which can be found here:
http://files.filefront.com/test33scx/;13648175;/fileinfo.html
Some things to note:
- Operation cwal + changing the build time of the unit/building DOES AFFECT THE REPAIR COST
- Sending any unit to the beacon automatically sets your resource count(mineral and gas) to exactly 1000 each time. This is for setting a number that is high enough and easily recordable for seeing how much it cost to repair.
- The marine and ghost have modified damages incase you want to attack one of your units, reducing it's health so you can do another trial on it or something.
- I put duplicates of every mech unit, one with 100% health and the other set with 1% health.
- The factory and starport are there for building more units, in the case that you accidently killed your own or something.
Some things I noted in my little bit of testing:
- siege tank(150/100) had a repair cost of a ratio 1:1 with minerals to gas, EVEN THOUGH it is more mineral heavy than gas.
- I tried repairing a goliath(100,50) and it cost more minerals(i believe, or maybe it was gas) to repair than gas. I.E not a 1:1 mineral:gas ratio like the siege tank. it was more like 1.4:1 or something.
- When I changed the goliaths unit cost to 150/100 like the tank, it DID REPAIR AT A 1:1 RATIO.
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^that last bit is very interesting o_o
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I'm guessing it's meant to be a 1:3 ratio of the unit/building's cost, but there's some rounding error that makes it equal gas/minerals for e.g. tank/BC.
e.g. mineral cost per repair-animation for a tank might be 1.2 and gas cost per repair animation might be 0.8; but both get rounded to 1.
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On April 24 2009 11:25 kakisama wrote:
so what about repair time?
That's the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread because I was already fairly certain everything is about 1/3 cost to repair.
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I love blizzards algorithms =)
Thx for the people doin all the testing
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it's probably like in Wc3, units have a repair cost, seperate from their acutal cost.
the repair cost is how many resources you need to repair from 0 to max hp.
so the rates should be related to their real cost but there might not be a universal algoritm for all of them, some units might be more cost effiecent to repair than others.
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I tested all the units might test buildings if im bored here's my results:
Played on fastest didn't get times cause advloader clock bugged.
+ Show Spoiler +Siege tank: 1-150hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/33
%of new: 22/33
SCV: 1-60hp
Minerals: 17
%of new: 34
Goliath: 1-125
Minerals/Gas: 34/17
%of new: 34/34
Vulture: 1-80hp
Minerals: 25
%of new: 33
Valkyrie: 1-200hp
Minerals/Gas: 84/42
%of new: 34/34
Wraith: 1-120hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/33
%of new: 22/33
Science Vessel: 1-200hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/66
%of new: 33/29
Dropship: 1-150hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/33
%of new: 33/33
Battlecruiser: 1-500hp
Minerals/Gas: 96/96
%of new: 24/32
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On April 24 2009 11:41 Grobyc wrote:Okay I got totally confused in my testing, and I have to go soon but I made a UMS map for testing it which can be found here: http://files.filefront.com/test33scx/;13648175;/fileinfo.htmlSome things to note:- Operation cwal + changing the build time of the unit/building DOES AFFECT THE REPAIR COST- Sending any unit to the beacon automatically sets your resource count(mineral and gas) to exactly 1000 each time. This is for setting a number that is high enough and easily recordable for seeing how much it cost to repair. - The marine and ghost have modified damages incase you want to attack one of your units, reducing it's health so you can do another trial on it or something. - I put duplicates of every mech unit, one with 100% health and the other set with 1% health. - The factory and starport are there for building more units, in the case that you accidently killed your own or something.
Some things I noted in my little bit of testing:- siege tank(150/100) had a repair cost of a ratio 1:1 with minerals to gas, EVEN THOUGH it is more mineral heavy than gas. - I tried repairing a goliath(100,50) and it cost more minerals(i believe, or maybe it was gas) to repair than gas. I.E not a 1:1 mineral:gas ratio like the siege tank. it was more like 1.4:1 or something. - When I changed the goliaths unit cost to 150/100 like the tank, it DID REPAIR AT A 1:1 RATIO.
now thats what I call a scientific approach
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repair time and cost are related to build time and cost of whatever you're repairing. this is how people make stuff take forever to repair in UMS games, they just crank up the build times.
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Quick ! I'll do it before anyone can say something !
Insert a [we still have something to learn after 10 years ? Jez] comment ~
Okay solved.
Too much tl.net / starcraft yes ?
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On April 24 2009 20:31 Jiiks wrote:I tested all the units might test buildings if im bored here's my results: Played on fastest didn't get times cause advloader clock bugged. + Show Spoiler +Siege tank: 1-150hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/33
%of new: 22/33
SCV: 1-60hp
Minerals: 17
%of new: 34
Goliath: 1-125
Minerals/Gas: 34/17
%of new: 34/34
Vulture: 1-80hp
Minerals: 25
%of new: 33
Valkyrie: 1-200hp
Minerals/Gas: 84/42
%of new: 34/34
Wraith: 1-120hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/33
%of new: 22/33
Science Vessel: 1-200hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/66
%of new: 33/29
Dropship: 1-150hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/33
%of new: 33/33
Battlecruiser: 1-500hp
Minerals/Gas: 96/96
%of new: 24/32
Do you think I could throw this in OP? Great work ^^
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On April 24 2009 11:41 Grobyc wrote:Okay I got totally confused in my testing, and I have to go soon but I made a UMS map for testing it which can be found here: http://files.filefront.com/test33scx/;13648175;/fileinfo.htmlSome things to note:- Operation cwal + changing the build time of the unit/building DOES AFFECT THE REPAIR COST- Sending any unit to the beacon automatically sets your resource count(mineral and gas) to exactly 1000 each time. This is for setting a number that is high enough and easily recordable for seeing how much it cost to repair. - The marine and ghost have modified damages incase you want to attack one of your units, reducing it's health so you can do another trial on it or something. - I put duplicates of every mech unit, one with 100% health and the other set with 1% health. - The factory and starport are there for building more units, in the case that you accidently killed your own or something.
Some things I noted in my little bit of testing:- siege tank(150/100) had a repair cost of a ratio 1:1 with minerals to gas, EVEN THOUGH it is more mineral heavy than gas. - I tried repairing a goliath(100,50) and it cost more minerals(i believe, or maybe it was gas) to repair than gas. I.E not a 1:1 mineral:gas ratio like the siege tank. it was more like 1.4:1 or something. - When I changed the goliaths unit cost to 150/100 like the tank, it DID REPAIR AT A 1:1 RATIO.
maybe the cost of repairing 1hp is (mineralcost)*k/MaxHp for minerals and 1.5*(gascost)*k/MaxHp for gas.
where k is some konstant, so if k was 1 then repairing a tank from half hp would cost 75/75.
but, i would guess that k is probably somewhere around 0.2
so repairing a unit from 1hp to max should cost somewhere around 0.2 minerals of it's cost and 0.3 gas.
edit; didn't read the cwal part, sry.
so construction speed is a factor aswell, does the cost increase the quicker the unit is built or the other way around?
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On April 24 2009 22:41 seppolevne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 20:31 Jiiks wrote:I tested all the units might test buildings if im bored here's my results: Played on fastest didn't get times cause advloader clock bugged. + Show Spoiler +Siege tank: 1-150hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/33
%of new: 22/33
SCV: 1-60hp
Minerals: 17
%of new: 34
Goliath: 1-125
Minerals/Gas: 34/17
%of new: 34/34
Vulture: 1-80hp
Minerals: 25
%of new: 33
Valkyrie: 1-200hp
Minerals/Gas: 84/42
%of new: 34/34
Wraith: 1-120hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/33
%of new: 22/33
Science Vessel: 1-200hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/66
%of new: 33/29
Dropship: 1-150hp
Minerals/Gas: 33/33
%of new: 33/33
Battlecruiser: 1-500hp
Minerals/Gas: 96/96
%of new: 24/32 Do you think I could throw this in OP? Great work ^^
Yea sure i dont mind.
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as far as i know (and im not quite sure about this) the formula sc uses is something like (hp-to-repair/maxhp)*(unit cost in mins and gas)*constant value
i dont know what the constant value is but it would be neat if somebody could try to run the numbers gained via experiments above through this formula and see whether its a viable explanation (and if it is what the constant value lokks like) or not
gl hf
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This is nice read. I wish I wasn't that lazy and would experiment with stuff i'm curious about.
BTW has anyone though how an SCV can repair air units but cant atack them?! a mystery to be solved...
On April 24 2009 09:46 dirtnap wrote:
i think it's something like 5 minerals per HP. not much at all.
epic troll!
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I did some testing using staredit to modify single unit values (cost, build time, health) and came up with something that should be close to the SC repair logic. Testing was done with units at 50% health. It seems to me there are three variables that describe repairs: the cost per repair cycle, the time per repair cycle, and the health healed per repair cycle. I will lay out the logic I found for calculating these in steps.
---Finding the cost per repair cycle
1) Calculate 1% of the mineral and gas cost of the repair target, ignoring zeroes.
ex1. Siege Tank: 150 min * 0.01 = 1.5 min, , 100 gas * 0.01 = 1 gas.
ex2. Armory: 100 min * 0.01 = 1 min, 50 gas * 0.01 = 0.5 gas
ex3. CC: 400 min * 0.01 = 4 min
2) Divide the smallest value from (1) into 1 and note this new value, which I will call proportional change.
ex1. Siege Tank: 1 / 1 gas = 1
ex2. Armory: 1 / 0.5 gas = 2
ex3. CC: 1 / 4 min = 0.25
3) Apply this proportional change from (2) to each of the values from (1).
ex1. Siege Tank: 1.5 min * 1 = 1.5 min, 1 gas * 1 = 1 gas
ex2. Armory: 1 min * 2 = 2 min, 0.5 gas * 2 = 1 gas
ex3. CC: 4 min * 0.25 = 1 min
4) Round down the values from (3) to obtain the cost per repair cycle.
ex1. Siege Tank: 1 min, 1 gas
ex2. Armory: 2 min, 1 gas
ex3. CC: 1 min, 0 gas
---Finding the time per repair cycle
5) Calculate 2.8% of the unit's Build Time.
ex1. Siege Tank: 50 seconds *0.028 = 1.4s
ex2. Armory: 80 seconds *0.028 = 2.24s
ex3. CC: 120 seconds *0.028 = 3.36s
6) Multiply the value from (5) by the proportional change from (2) to obtain the time per repair cycle.
ex1. Siege Tank: 1.4s * 1 = 1.4 seconds
ex2. Armory: 2.24s * 2 = 4.48 seconds
ex3. CC: 3.36s * 0.25 = 0.84 seconds
---Finding the health healed per repair cycle
7) Divide the value(s) from (4) into the unit's total cost.
ex1. Siege Tank: 1 min / 100 min = 0.01, 1 gas / 150 gas = 0.00667...
ex2. Armory: 2 min / 100 min = 0.02, 1 gas / 50 gas = 0.02
ex3. CC: 1 min / 400 min = 0.0025
8) Multiply the highest of the values from (7) by the unit's maximum health and by 3.15 (this is not exact; the game appears to use a '3' value but some framerate rounding causes it to vary between 3 and 3.3 or so). This is approximately the health healed per repair cycle.
ex1. Siege Tank: 0.01 * 150 health * 3.15 = 4.725 health
ex2. Armory: 0.02 * 750 health * 3.15 = 47.25 health
ex3. CC: 0.0025 * 1500 health * 3.15 = 11.8125 health
To summarize the examples:
ex1. Siege Tank: Costs 1 min and 1 gas to heal 4.725 health over 1.4 seconds.
ex2. Armory: Costs 2 min and 1 gas to heal 47.25 health over 4.48 seconds.
ex3. CC: Costs 1 min to heal 11.8125 health over 0.84 seconds.
The above results appear to work for costs down to 1 and up to several thousand. The numbers are likely not exact in a couple places due to rounding, but should generally be close (+/- 5% or so).
Some extra observations:
If an SCV gets its repair command interrupted during a repair cycle (likely by another command), you do not get any sort of refund on unused repair time and will have to pay the initial cost again to resume repairs. However, if the repair target moves, the repair cycle pauses until the SCV catches up, at which time it will resume the cycle from where it left off, costing no extra resources. Multiple SCVs repairing the same target each run on their own repair cycles and do not seem to interact. While the game does track fractional health values (in 256ths, I read somewhere), it does not appear to track fractional resource values, at least not with repairs.
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Wow that's great, sirnukes, thank you!
Regarding the extra observation about the repair command interruption; does this mean that e.g. if you spam an SCV and repeatedly tell it to repair a bunker, then it costs more (and repairs at the same rate) than if you had just told it to repair once and let it finish?
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On April 25 2009 06:34 Polemarch wrote:
Regarding the extra observation about the repair command interruption; does this mean that e.g. if you spam an SCV and repeatedly tell it to repair a bunker, then it costs more (and repairs at the same rate) than if you had just told it to repair once and let it finish?
It will cost more and, it seems, repair slower since there is a tiny delay after giving the repair order and the SCV starting repairs. A 50% bunker took 10 seconds and 17 minerals to repair normally, while a spam-clicked 50% bunker took 15 seconds and 104 minerals to repair for me. If you click fast enough you can stop the SCV from repairing because it will be stuck in that tiny delay. In theory, I think you could click just right so that the SCV only repairs 1 health each time, meaning a 50% bunker would take 175 minerals to repair.
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Does it cost more if you repair with more scvs?
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On April 25 2009 08:23 arb wrote:
Does it cost more if you repair with more scvs?
Yes, but not by much. When an SCV is healing that last little bit of health they will charge for a full repair cycle, so that last cycle isn't as efficient in terms of health per cost. If you have a bunch of SCVs repairing the same thing, they will all have charged for an inefficient last repair cycle.
As an extreme example, if a CC is at 1490 health, you can have one SCV repair it in just under one cycle (~.8 seconds) for 1 mineral, or you can have 10 SCVs all repair it at the same time in just under a tenth of a cycle (~.08 seconds) but 10 minerals (1 mineral each). The counterpart to this will be when the CC has enough damage on it for 10 repair cycles, so each of the 10 SCVs will be efficient and cost nothing extra over one SCV.
On average, I figure each SCV will waste half a repair cycle worth of resources when they finish, so that can give an idea of how much each extra repairing SCV will cost you. This would only be half a mineral and gas on a Siege Tank per SCV, for instance, so it doesn't really matter compared to lost mining time and other concerns.
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You guys seriously have nothing better to do than analyzing repair cost!?
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On April 25 2009 11:20 ZeKk wrote:
You guys seriously have nothing better to do than analyzing repair cost!?
you got a problem with people contributing to the community?
what's wrong with studying the best game in the world?
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On April 24 2009 20:47 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 11:41 Grobyc wrote:Okay I got totally confused in my testing, and I have to go soon but I made a UMS map for testing it which can be found here: http://files.filefront.com/test33scx/;13648175;/fileinfo.htmlSome things to note:- Operation cwal + changing the build time of the unit/building DOES AFFECT THE REPAIR COST- Sending any unit to the beacon automatically sets your resource count(mineral and gas) to exactly 1000 each time. This is for setting a number that is high enough and easily recordable for seeing how much it cost to repair. - The marine and ghost have modified damages incase you want to attack one of your units, reducing it's health so you can do another trial on it or something. - I put duplicates of every mech unit, one with 100% health and the other set with 1% health. - The factory and starport are there for building more units, in the case that you accidently killed your own or something.
Some things I noted in my little bit of testing:- siege tank(150/100) had a repair cost of a ratio 1:1 with minerals to gas, EVEN THOUGH it is more mineral heavy than gas. - I tried repairing a goliath(100,50) and it cost more minerals(i believe, or maybe it was gas) to repair than gas. I.E not a 1:1 mineral:gas ratio like the siege tank. it was more like 1.4:1 or something. - When I changed the goliaths unit cost to 150/100 like the tank, it DID REPAIR AT A 1:1 RATIO. now thats what I call a scientific approach
lol thanks.
On April 25 2009 11:20 ZeKk wrote:
You guys seriously have nothing better to do than analyzing repair cost!?
gtfo
On April 24 2009 22:45 jeppew wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 11:41 Grobyc wrote:Okay I got totally confused in my testing, and I have to go soon but I made a UMS map for testing it which can be found here: http://files.filefront.com/test33scx/;13648175;/fileinfo.htmlSome things to note:- Operation cwal + changing the build time of the unit/building DOES AFFECT THE REPAIR COST- Sending any unit to the beacon automatically sets your resource count(mineral and gas) to exactly 1000 each time. This is for setting a number that is high enough and easily recordable for seeing how much it cost to repair. - The marine and ghost have modified damages incase you want to attack one of your units, reducing it's health so you can do another trial on it or something. - I put duplicates of every mech unit, one with 100% health and the other set with 1% health. - The factory and starport are there for building more units, in the case that you accidently killed your own or something.
Some things I noted in my little bit of testing:- siege tank(150/100) had a repair cost of a ratio 1:1 with minerals to gas, EVEN THOUGH it is more mineral heavy than gas. - I tried repairing a goliath(100,50) and it cost more minerals(i believe, or maybe it was gas) to repair than gas. I.E not a 1:1 mineral:gas ratio like the siege tank. it was more like 1.4:1 or something. - When I changed the goliaths unit cost to 150/100 like the tank, it DID REPAIR AT A 1:1 RATIO. maybe the cost of repairing 1hp is (mineralcost)*k/MaxHp for minerals and 1.5*(gascost)*k/MaxHp for gas. where k is some konstant, so if k was 1 then repairing a tank from half hp would cost 75/75. but, i would guess that k is probably somewhere around 0.2 so repairing a unit from 1hp to max should cost somewhere around 0.2 minerals of it's cost and 0.3 gas. edit; didn't read the cwal part, sry. so construction speed is a factor aswell, does the cost increase the quicker the unit is built or the other way around?
It was cheaper. Something like 2/3 or 1/2 of the cost of what it would be without cwal on I think; I'm not too sure though, I didn't save the results. I just know there was a difference.
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On April 25 2009 11:20 ZeKk wrote:
You guys seriously have nothing better to do than analyzing repair cost!?
You seriously have nothing better to do than critisize other peoples hard work at helping answer a sc question made by someone from the sc community on a sc site?
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This is an interesting thread. I never realized how much gas it cost to repair science vessels. i wonder if this is why you rarely see players repair SVs during late-game TvZ: the cost benefit may not be worth the loss of utility and APM.
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Seems like you get the build time when you divide normal speed build time with 1,6.
+ Show Spoiler [build time] +Unit/Normal/Fastest
Vulture/30s/18,75s
Goliath/40s/25s
Tank/50s/31,25s
SCV/20s/12,5s
Wraith/60s/37,5s
Vessel/80s/50s
Dropship/50s/31,25s
BC/133s/83,12s
Valkyrie/50s/31,25s
Building/Normal/Fastest
CC/120s/75s
Depot/40s/25s
Refinery/40s/25s
Barracks/80s/50s
Academy/80s/50s
Factory/80s/50s
Starport/70s/43,75s
Facility/60s/37,5s
EBay/60s/37,5s
Armory/80s/50s
Turret/30s/18,75s
Bunker/30s/18,75s
Addons/40s/25s
Silo/80s/50s
Also here's the repair costs for buildings.
+ Show Spoiler [repair cost] +CC: 1-1500hp
Minerals: 128
%of new: 31,25
Supply Depot: 1-500hp
Minerals: 28
%of new: 35,7
Bunker: 1-350hp
Minerals: 24
%of new: 41,6
Turret: 1-200hp
Minerals: 26
%of new: 28,8
Barracks: 1-1000hp
Minerals: 50
%of new: 30
Refinery: 1-750hp
Minerals: 32
%of new: 31,25
Engineering Bay: 1-850hp
Minerals: 42
%of new: 29,76
academy: 1-600hp
Minerals: 50
%of new: 30
Factory: 1-1250hp
Minerals/Gas: 68/34
%of new: 29,41/29,41
Armory: 1-750hp
Minerals/Gas: 36/18
%of new: 27,7/27,7
Starport:1-1300hp
Minerals/Gas: 34/34
%of new: 44,1/29,4
Science Facility: 1-850hp
Minerals/Gas: 34/34
%of new: 29,4/44,1
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Damn this is a really nice thread. I always felt like every time I repaired, I was throwing away resources that I could have spent on more units. Kudos to all the work put in here!
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Interesting thread, never knew most of this stuff.
On April 25 2009 01:48 [GMTA]_HumBug wrote:
BTW has anyone though how an SCV can repair air units but cant atack them?! a mystery to be solved...
I've always wondered about this and came to the conclusion that the air unit must, not land, but fly really low for the duration of the repair, lol.
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I know this is more of a scientific and stats-based discussion here, but I feel that repairing your units, while not always the most cost effective action in every situation, can have a very detrimental effect on your opponent's psyche.
The feeling of frustration that it can give them to see your units lasting longer than they expected is worth more than just a few minerals in some cases and can potentially lead to mistakes and wasted actions/attention on their part.
This does, of course, vary immensely from player to player, so can not be scientifically proven, but I feel that it is definitely a factor worth bearing in mind.
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On April 25 2009 19:41 latent wrote:
This is an interesting thread. I never realized how much gas it cost to repair science vessels. i wonder if this is why you rarely see players repair SVs during late-game TvZ: the cost benefit may not be worth the loss of utility and APM.
?????
It doesn't cost much at all.
In fact, pound for pound, it costs less gas to repair than any other unit shown in this thread so far.
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So seeing repair costs are small in sc terms, it seems that the more important questions is:
"How many scv's does it take to repair a tank so it will survive another hit from a dragoon?"
or
"How many scv's does it take to repair a tank so it will survive more hits from a dragoon until it can fire an extra time?"
With these questions you as a terran player can quickly make a decision if its worth it to pull scvs and repair a tank or not. If i pull scvs to repair, will my tank be able to fire again? Otherwise it is useless to send scv's to repair. Ofc 1 goon vs 1 tank is just a single scenario, what if more tanks? What if more goons? What if other units are mixed in?? Seems to me these questions answered could lead to a terran guide if and how many scv's to send along a push or to pull of from mining to repair a tank.
EDIT: I am not a terran player, so i will not put in the work to solve these complex problems, but it seems like you can eventually get some basic rules of thumb out of it at least. e.g. send 1 scv per tank with a push or 1 scv repairing a tank per goon firing upon it or something like that.
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On April 25 2009 07:33 SirNukes wrote:
It will cost more and, it seems, repair slower since there is a tiny delay after giving the repair order and the SCV starting repairs. A 50% bunker took 10 seconds and 17 minerals to repair normally, while a spam-clicked 50% bunker took 15 seconds and 104 minerals to repair for me. If you click fast enough you can stop the SCV from repairing because it will be stuck in that tiny delay. In theory, I think you could click just right so that the SCV only repairs 1 health each time, meaning a 50% bunker would take 175 minerals to repair.
Thanks again; that's a really good takeaway from this. I'm pretty sure I've spammed repair before, and had no idea it was actually counterproductive.
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Can an allied T repair, say, toss buildings?
Just curious.
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On April 26 2009 00:35 jeddus wrote:
Can an allied T repair, say, toss buildings?
Just curious.
No, they can only repair terran units
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On April 26 2009 00:35 jeddus wrote:
Can an allied T repair, say, toss buildings?
Just curious.
You cannot repair toss buildings....
+ Show Spoiler +Even if you mind controlled an SCV
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On April 26 2009 01:06 Michaelj wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2009 00:35 jeddus wrote:
Can an allied T repair, say, toss buildings?
Just curious. No, they can only repair terran units
and power generators..
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itd be cool if scvs could repair bunkers from the inside
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On April 26 2009 07:28 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2009 01:06 Michaelj wrote:On April 26 2009 00:35 jeddus wrote:
Can an allied T repair, say, toss buildings?
Just curious. No, they can only repair terran units and power generators..
Power generators do count as Terran buildings. Go into the editor, they are under Terran > Special Buildings.
On April 26 2009 08:13 travis wrote:
itd be cool if scvs could repair bunkers from the inside
Indeed :D
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On April 24 2009 08:40 Zoler wrote:
I think its 1 mineral for 1 hp.
Typical zoler reply, haha. Read the thread before commenting dude.
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This is just a theory, but perhaps the amount of minerals or gas for repair cost is by the hundreds.
For example
Ranges:
0-99 mineral/gas cost, then it has one rate of gas spending.
100-199 mineral/gas cost has a lower rate, etc.
This could explain why a goliath (100/50) has a 1.4:1 mineral/gas repair cost ratio while a tank (100/150) has a 1:1 mineral/gas repair cost ratio.
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Does anyone go out into the field with a bunch of scvs though? I mean maybe for building turrets during a push vs a toss. I use them for BCs and vessels, bunkers, burning buildings, that's about it.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On April 26 2009 11:51 obesechicken13 wrote:
Does anyone go out into the field with a bunch of scvs though? I mean maybe for building turrets during a push vs a toss. I use them for BCs and vessels, bunkers, burning buildings, that's about it.
Ugh, people repair their tanks.
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On April 25 2009 15:19 Grobyc wrote:
It was cheaper. Something like 2/3 or 1/2 of the cost of what it would be without cwal on I think; I'm not too sure though, I didn't save the results. I just know there was a difference.
In a quick test, a 50% CC took 63 minerals to repair normally, but 32 under operation cwal. A 50% rax took 25 normally, 21 under opcwal. I suspect the calculated repair cycle length with operation cwal's build times is getting significantly rounded by whatever framerate Starcraft runs repairs at internally (I know in Diablo 2 uses 25 fps for everything, for instance). For example, if the calculation comes out to 1 mineral for 10 health over half a frame duration (20 health/frame), the duration might get rounded up to 1 frame and 20 health will be repaired (double the health per mineral). D2 is loaded with stuff like that.
From a quick test on a CC with built time set to 1000, it looks like operation cwal divides build time by around 16. A normal CC (no longer talking about the modified build time) repair cycle is around 0.84 seconds, so under the cheat it should be divided by 16 to become ~0.0525 seconds. Since the cheat allows a CC to repair for almost half cost overall and using the logic from my example above, it would suggest Starcraft's handles repairs at ~10 fps. I don't know enough about SC to say anything more about framerates.
On April 25 2009 23:56 Gnojfatelob wrote:
So seeing repair costs are small in sc terms, it seems that the more important questions is:
"How many scv's does it take to repair a tank so it will survive another hit from a dragoon?"
Well, four SCVs can repair a tank slightly faster than a goon can damage it. But I think there might be too many battlefield dynamics to answer the questions you seem to be asking.
On April 26 2009 11:33 Archaic wrote:
This is just a theory, but perhaps the amount of minerals or gas for repair cost is by the hundreds.
That was one of my ideas when I first looked at it, but it isn't how it works. For instance, if you set a unit to cost 50 minerals and 25 gas, repairs will cost twice as many minerals as gas, similar to a Goliath. Really, my earlier post laying out the calculation steps should cover the repair logic pretty well.
It occurs to me I should add some interpretations of the repair logic to make it a little clearer, so I will do that here. The programmers' intent seems to have been to charge 1% of the unit's cost to repair 3% of the unit's health, or thereabouts. Before inefficiencies and rounding, this would mean repairing a full unit would cost around 33.3% of its base cost. However, to get the resource numbers to calculate nice, the lower 1% resource is adjusted to '1' while the higher resource is kept proportional, but rounded down to a whole number. So in general, fully repairing a unit will cost ~33% of its lower resource value and anywhere between 16% and 33% of its higher resource value, before rounding and inefficiencies. A notable inefficiency is that the last repair cycle will not heal a full amount of health since the unit reaches maximum health, lowering the percentages. An apparent notable rounding is that the duration of a repair cycle rounds up to the nearest frame and provides a little extra health, raising the percentages.
On April 25 2009 20:09 Jiiks wrote:
Also here's the repair costs for buildings.
Jiiks, are you sure your building numbers are correct? I saw the bunker had an oddly high percentage cost so I took a closer look: repairing a 1hp bunker to full cost 35 minerals, repairing a 175hp bunker to full cost 17 minerals and extrapolates to 34 for a full bunker (this method avoids burning damage), and even using your number (24) it does not come out a 41.6% cost. The percentages on other buildings seem to be off, though I didn't check their repair costs like I did with the bunker.
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Jiiks, are you sure your building numbers are correct? I saw the bunker had an oddly high percentage cost so I took a closer look: repairing a 1hp bunker to full cost 35 minerals, repairing a 175hp bunker to full cost 17 minerals and extrapolates to 34 for a full bunker (this method avoids burning damage), and even using your number (24) it does not come out a 41.6% cost. The percentages on other buildings seem to be off, though I didn't check their repair costs like I did with the bunker.
Yeah there might be typos i tested bunker again and it took 34minerals/34%, other then that they seem to be right maybe 0,x off.
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EPT
