EPTBut you can still fake even vs good terrans, just start your spire little bit later. When they scan time when it should be done its not done (you already damaged it), still win win situation.
[I] Fake Delayed Spire - Page 8
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
But you can still fake even vs good terrans, just start your spire little bit later. When they scan time when it should be done its not done (you already damaged it), still win win situation. | ||
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Jonteman
Sweden644 Posts
On March 04 2009 19:30 NrG.Vincent wrote: did you know that mutas requires 40 seconds for spawn from eggs? Mr tvz timing should start playing on fastest instead of normal game speed, because it definitely doesnt take mutas 40 seconds to spawn. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
On March 04 2009 21:40 Jonteman wrote: Mr tvz timing should start playing on fastest instead of normal game speed, because it definitely doesnt take mutas 40 seconds to spawn. 25 game seconds it is. Though I think he took the flight time in account, hence around 40. | ||
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
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NrG.Vincent
Italy19 Posts
On March 04 2009 21:44 ZerG~LegenD wrote: 25 game seconds it is. Though I think he took the flight time in account, hence around 40. yes of course... 40 seconds before that mutas attacks after that spire morphed up... On March 04 2009 21:32 Zoler wrote: Insane that new strategies are still made up, but I think progamers have thought of this. The reason why it's not used is that good terran players have the right timing when they scan so that the scan hits almost exactly when the spire finishes. It will only work at low levels. I said the same thing | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3991 Posts
Since the building time of a spire is 75 secs, 4/6 of that (needs to be over 200hp) is 50 secs of time window. But that's when he scans at 600 and you got it exactly down to 200. Now take away 8 secs for the duration of comsat, he can't see the spire morphing in, and you're left with 42. Also, take away the time it takes 6 lings to do 400 hp of damage (although you can't do all the damage in 1 go, but let's say you can), which is about 6 seconds. Now you're left with 36 seconds in which the terran should scan you. That's not a huge time period. That is the absolute best situation. But Terran will not always scan at the right moment. He can scan at any time the spire is building. If he scans it while the spire should be at 300 hp, the difference is only 1/4 x 50 is 12 seconds. The later he scans, the better things will be for you. Downsides: - You need to keep your lings in your base. - You need to micro to keep the HP of the spire as close to 200 as possible. - You need to spot a scan as you can't attack the spire for the next 8 seconds. - You will be left with a weaker spire at the end. - You must have eliminated scouts from your base. If the Terran will put turrets up at that very latest moment, this move may prove useful. But oftentimes he'll get them 15 seconds early and that will make the move have a limited chance of success. I'd rather compare it to the 10/9 drone trick, useful in some odd cases but not standard practice. And that move doesn't carry the name of it's creator either, LoL. | ||
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DeepGreen
United States175 Posts
On March 04 2009 22:08 NrG.Vincent wrote: yes of course... 40 seconds before that mutas attacks after that spire morphed up... I said the same thing ...but if they mess their timing up at all and don't see it complete, or just miss seeing it complete (matter of seconds, right?), they're going to be confused. And the point is, this isn't exactly a big RISK. You're not all-in or anything. You're not sacrificing eco, production, etc. | ||
Pholon
Netherlands6142 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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petzergling
538 Posts
Honestly it was my first reaction to this thread, but in reality this is a really good idea. As a terran that knows proper turret timing, if I scan my opponent and see a spire that is 25 seconds late I'm going to put my turrets up late too. I think this could really mess up a terran, but I would only use it on maps like destination, othello, or medusa where there are areas that are difficult to get turrets up/rebuild them so that you can really reap the benefits from late turrets. The only beef I have with it is... 1. I usually scan a zerg around 100-200 hp spire, so unless a terran scans you at the perfect spire timing when its 200+ hp behind its not gonna do anything. 2. AFAIK zerglings are good for scouting information against T. If you are fucking around with your spire and not getting optimal map vision it seems to me you are putting yourself at a high risk of getting sunken broken. 3. You're probably fucked if he goes 1 base dropship and kills it.. All in all though it seems like it would help in a standard game, but in reality all you are doing is helping terrans learn perfect turret timing  . It may win you a game or two though. | ||
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SteveNick
United States304 Posts
On March 04 2009 12:39 Conquest101 wrote: Oh man, this is pretty cool. Here's a question: anyway to work something like this into pool timing vs Protoss to make toss Nexus before forge and screw them over? Like have 1 or 2 drones attacking it until your lord sees probe come in, than the toss sees what he thinks is a just started pool and a hidden hatch? Goes Nexus first, gets owned (or worse case, is forced to cancel nexus and put cannons if he already went forge). Drone count and stuff would mess that up, unless 9 hatch at hidden expo, 9 pool is a viable build <.<. I dunno, random theorycrafting, someone figure something good out. I see 3 problems with this. 1. You're wasting 2 drones attacking your own pool instead of mining minerals. The idea in the OP doesn't sacrifice anything to do the build. Yours does. 2. Even D players have a pretty firm grasp on timing in early game, along with drone count. 3. It will only be applicable against FE. | ||
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Hans-Titan
Denmark1711 Posts
I'm the type of guy who would get utterly raped by a move like this. If I see a spire at 200 HP, I'll delay my cannons a bit, and if the mutas come before the cannons are done, it's usually GG from me. | ||
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chiam_ace
Malaysia111 Posts
And now he's trying to destroy creative play altogether just because he can't!  some sad shit | ||
Chill
Calgary25989 Posts
On March 04 2009 23:56 chiam_ace wrote: Slightly OT but now we can see why IdrA never does anything creative, innovative, or slightly clever plays in his games - and still lose every tourney he's been in. And now he's trying to destroy creative play altogether just because he can't! some sad shit where did this come from? furthermore, what the fuck are you talking about? | ||
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chiam_ace
Malaysia111 Posts
On March 05 2009 00:16 Chill wrote: where did this come from? furthermore, what the fuck are you talking about? From a few pages back. | ||
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hazz
United Kingdom570 Posts
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Neivler
Norway911 Posts
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EsX_Raptor
United States2802 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
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