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On March 13 2009 23:07 eci wrote:
Ou man great job! You completely revolutionized Starcraft!!! This strategy is a good strategy!
Couple this with Drone Micro
Introduction
As a teamliquid nerd i have time to think about new great strategies. In SC Games sometimes i have time for some additional micro. The Drone Micro idea was born.
The Idea
In some builds you are low on minerals at certain times. Especially if the enemy is doing some timing attack and you need more minerals build units to hold up the attack. If you can bare some micro at that time, use Drone Micro. Just send as much drones as you can back to the mineral patches by hand, use a shorter path than the AI would do. With that way, you can gather more minerals in less times.
The Possible Epic Fail
I never tried this strategy out. Beware of an epic fail.
A silly attempt at being smart, I guess... Pathetic... Just quit it, ok?
I like the idea of the delayed spire. It reminds of an article I read here about mind games. When Stork was playing against Flash and Stork said: Omg, I'm so gonna rape your armory build! Then he lost in under an hour to 3 timing pushes. That's when you know you're in someone's head.
This fake health of the spire I guess would work on levels where people might use mind games. On the low levels where like 90% of the guys (like me) are trying to follow up builds and time their buildings not to what they see but ny what they think they most probably are going to encounter (like I play PvZ and I have some scouting and I do believe the guy's going 3 hatch muta to some shit and I think I am safe to do the 4 gate 2 archon with +1 zeal push. Bu then the guy has done some lurker tech and expanded once more and he stops my push cold, etc, etc...) this is not gonna work.
But as stated before - it won't hurt you, it's cute, it's new and IF if does work it's gonna be so fun.
I am all over those new ideas/builds.
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should just be a little joke, to do a more serious comment: it is a good idea to think about the fake spire and faking/confusing the enemy in general, but after some considerations the fake spire technic is as _practical_ as the Drone Micro strategy
( btw: a few years ago, some semi pros REALLY used the drone micro strategy, i.e. stearing some drones manually in the first minute of the game, and you REALLY can gather more minerals ( similar to place pylons in the mineral lines to improve the path of the drones ) but is _very_ dangerous (if you make a mistake) and the benefits are roflcopter, see fake spire )
This all reminds me to a funny fake strategy of Boxer:
We are on a 4 Player Map, Boxer scouts his enemy first, then he sees the scouting peon of the enemy running towards his base, he LIFTs up his CC to the (i guess it was a mineral only) expension _behind_ his main, the enemy scouts it and thinks there is none, Boxer blocks the scouting peon at the ramp of another empty potential start position -> funny face a few minutes later after his enemy attacked the fake starting point, too bad boxer lost this game.
If anyone reminds of that match, please give a link, i wanna see it again!
PS: Of course, the joke was motivated by the strange initial "i wanna be epic post"-post
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17007 Posts
It was Boxer vs. Yellow on Blade Storm, I think. It was in one of the original SCL pimpest plays pages.
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Just saw this so sorry for the late reply, but this is an amazing idea :O
I mean, obviously it's not going to greatly impact gameplay, but it's still pretty awesome and I can't believe I've never thought about it 
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this means you have to lay the spire earlier then usual right?cause you have to make it look like it's delayed
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hmm I propose this:
When your spire starts building, select one zergling to attack the spire, and then put an overlord over that ling. That way, even if a scan occurs, there will be no indication that the spire is being damaged because the overlord will cover the ling.
HOWEVER: I have not read the entire thread, and thus, do not know the timing on how to make the spire look like it has less health than it should. I do not know if one ling attacking the spire from the start of its morph will cause the spire to have ~200 health by its completion.
anyway, it's just a suggestion, and if this idea has already been suggested, then screw my lack of reading the entire thread ^^!~
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On March 19 2009 15:37 7c.nEptuNe wrote:
hmm I propose this:
When your spire starts building, select one zergling to attack the spire, and then put an overlord over that ling. That way, even if a scan occurs, there will be no indication that the spire is being damaged because the overlord will cover the ling.
HOWEVER: I have not read the entire thread, and thus, do not know the timing on how to make the spire look like it has less health than it should. I do not know if one ling attacking the spire from the start of its morph will cause the spire to have ~200 health by its completion.
anyway, it's just a suggestion, and if this idea has already been suggested, then screw my lack of reading the entire thread ^^!~
you can hear the zergling attacking it though
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The thing is stuff like this does work even in progaming. I remember a game ZvP where the Z made an extractor, collected 100 gas, killed the extractor, researched ling speed and killed the probe before speed was done. Toss must have been thinking - I am ok, no speedlings. And a few seconds later - BAM and you're dead.
We should never discourage innovative ideas.
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On March 19 2009 19:17 hymn wrote:
The thing is stuff like this does work even in progaming. I remember a game ZvP where the Z made an extractor, collected 100 gas, killed the extractor, researched ling speed and killed the probe before speed was done. Toss must have been thinking - I am ok, no speedlings. And a few seconds later - BAM and you're dead.
We should never discourage innovative ideas.
normally toss should have scouted the z gas in time unless they played on BGH or smth... Or Z went some super early gas build to pull it off before getting scouted, which will alter his build timing greatly and alert any good toss that somethings coming up. Its an all-in move, and a bad one at that.
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On March 19 2009 19:17 hymn wrote:
The thing is stuff like this does work even in progaming. I remember a game ZvP where the Z made an extractor, collected 100 gas, killed the extractor, researched ling speed and killed the probe before speed was done. Toss must have been thinking - I am ok, no speedlings. And a few seconds later - BAM and you're dead.
We should never discourage innovative ideas.
the game on zodiac?
he lost that because he couldnt kill the probe till he had ling speed
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On March 13 2009 23:35 hymn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 23:07 eci wrote:
Ou man great job! You completely revolutionized Starcraft!!! This strategy is a good strategy!
Couple this with Drone Micro
Introduction
As a teamliquid nerd i have time to think about new great strategies. In SC Games sometimes i have time for some additional micro. The Drone Micro idea was born.
The Idea
In some builds you are low on minerals at certain times. Especially if the enemy is doing some timing attack and you need more minerals build units to hold up the attack. If you can bare some micro at that time, use Drone Micro. Just send as much drones as you can back to the mineral patches by hand, use a shorter path than the AI would do. With that way, you can gather more minerals in less times.
The Possible Epic Fail
I never tried this strategy out. Beware of an epic fail. A silly attempt at being smart, I guess... Pathetic... Just quit it, ok?
Drone micro sucks. However, SCV micro actually is somewhat viable and it speeds up the minerals quite a bit. Especially during the spam period you can just send the SCVs to mine manually and you'll have like 16-24 minerals more than normal as you start your first depot. Pretty insignificant but if you'd just spam otherwise, why not?
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On March 19 2009 21:33 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 19:17 hymn wrote:
The thing is stuff like this does work even in progaming. I remember a game ZvP where the Z made an extractor, collected 100 gas, killed the extractor, researched ling speed and killed the probe before speed was done. Toss must have been thinking - I am ok, no speedlings. And a few seconds later - BAM and you're dead.
We should never discourage innovative ideas. the game on zodiac? he lost that because he couldnt kill the probe till he had ling speed
Was the z player flower in that game?
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
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Random zerg theorycraft that I came up with, figured I'd just bump this instead of starting a new thread.
Misinformation can be a very powerful tool and this is just another example of it.
Say you want to hydra all-in while playing ZvP. If you want to succeed, you'll need to deny scouting information, since if they see you're doing a hydra all-in they can prepare for it and deflect it.
But what if instead, you allowed them to scout part of your base and appeared to be doing a standard build?
Specifically, how about allowing their scouting probe to see you put down a hydra den at the normal timing for it when you've already got one up? I am proposing a fake normally timed hydra-den to accompany a hydra all-in for ZvP.
Here is my thought process in terms of how this would optimally work:
- Do the normal build for the hydra all-in, but make sure you keep your hydras out of sight.
- Allow their scouting probe to make it to your natural, where it sees a hydra den being put down at a normal timing, then kill their probe (or deny it entrance into your base with a sunken) without using your hydras. Maybe a smart player is suspicious of you not denying his scout with your lings.
- The protoss player will think that you are playing a standard game and will not add defenses. When your attack comes he will be unprepared and you will run over him.
So if misinformation is so powerful, why don't terran players fake-mech by putting down two factories and then going bio? That is, what is so special about this particular idea? The reason no terrans put down two factories as a fake is that two factories is fucking expensive. A hydra den, on the other hand, is relatively inexpensive, and you might even be able to cancel it if you can get rid of the scouting probe quickly.
Think of it this way - the money you spend on the hydra den would otherwise be another hydra. If this works, you are basically giving up < 2 hydras to stop them from making more cannons; a good trade in my eyes.
Obviously this won't work on some levels of play as at lower levels your opponents might not be smart enough to scout or react properly. It's possible that a sunken is necessary to deny scouting if you can't rely on lings to get rid of the probe scout and that that sunken is so expensive that it weakens your attack too much.
It might be that no such timing window for this idea works. I am not a very good player, so I don't know whether this is the case.
This came to me as a combination of Luxury's comments about his 2hat hydra all-in of Best in WL playoffs and Leta's loss (  ) to Luxury in the 5set of their MSL series.
Anyone have thoughts as to whether this is viable? Has this already been thought of? I would love to see replays of toss players getting owned by this 
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Is nobody responding because they're not reading it and I should make a new thread or is this idea just so incredibly brain damaged that I am now being ostracized?
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medium risk, no drawback strategy.
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EPT
