[G][Q] My zerg on coke - Page 2

On October 27 2008 05:34 waterGHOSTCLAWdragon wrote:
Interestingly enough, I have the opposite opinion of most other people- I think that it would be really good against m/m, and really bad against mech. Ensnare changes the amount of dps the marines/firebats do by a significant amount, so the lings/hydra should be able to surround and kill the ball more easily than they would be able to otherwise. Against mech, I think that it would really depend about the various army compositions ( gol/tank vs hydra/ling)

The game would change to being all about if you can kill the first T push. One thing that the T could do is they could get a higer number of medics to counter the lower dps that their units would be doing. I think that most T's upon seeing queens might be so confused that they would lose >.>

Interesting though.

On October 27 2008 10:12 CDRdude wrote:
To those that have tried the build, how do queens work out? Do they get irradiated, and quickly killed? Can you build up a mass of queens large enough that you can constantly get off ensnares? What is the timing of the first queen, compared to the first vessel? Is it beneficial to try to ensnare vessels, so that you can scourge them more easily? This is an interesting sounding build, although I'm such a bad player that I won't have the mechanics to pull it off.

One thing that occurred to me is what if the T goes medic heavy? Doesn't that really help against hydras? I'd also like to join the bandwagon asking for reps, I hope your computer gets fixed soon.

On October 27 2008 09:11 Pokebunny wrote:
Very interesting read, but I've got a question about the lategame (3rd gas and later, usually when T takes third, hive tech-ish stage)

You said it should turn into normal ZvT, however, how will defilers work with hydras? While mass lings is in this strategy, if you were to swarm on the marines (as usual to delay running away) your hydras wouldn't be able to hit, and would work against you somewhat. You also suggested getting +1 (and probably later +2/3) missile attack. Do you think this is necessary? I feel like in late game, you're gonna just end up with ultra/ling with swarms, and therefore be wasting ups. What role to hydras have in late game?

Overall, very nicely thought out. I had another comment but I forgot what it was, will post if I remember later. -__-

On October 27 2008 10:10 Pokebunny wrote:
Aha, remembered what I was going to say. Do you think this would be more effective against SK Terran (1 fac tanks, 2 port vessels) or 2fac, with more tanks and less vessels. I guess in the midgame vessels would be rather useless, as lings and hydras would not be worth irradiating. A slower tank / m&m push with 6-10 tanks may be hard for this build to defend, what are your thoughts on this as well?

On October 27 2008 10:12 CDRdude wrote:
To those that have tried the build, how do queens work out? Do they get irradiated, and quickly killed? Can you build up a mass of queens large enough that you can constantly get off ensnares? What is the timing of the first queen, compared to the first vessel? Is it beneficial to try to ensnare vessels, so that you can scourge them more easily? This is an interesting sounding build, although I'm such a bad player that I won't have the mechanics to pull it off.

One thing that occurred to me is what if the T goes medic heavy? Doesn't that really help against hydras? I'd also like to join the bandwagon asking for reps, I hope your computer gets fixed soon.

On October 27 2008 10:14 nevake wrote:
I still think a well spread out terran will not be deterred in their first push by ensnare. This, along with actually making defilers come later, makes this build bank too much on stopping the first push with ensnare, which is unreliable IMO.

On October 27 2008 10:19 IntoTheWow wrote:
I used to try all kinds of aggressive builds (my favorites) all the time.

I tried all sorts of 2 hatch, 1 hatch techs, hive rushes, etc.

The problem I see with your build is you need the terran to come out and face you to be able to gain an advantage. If the terran decides to stay in his base and power:

- You have no harassment options, no drops, no mutas.
- You don't have a spire, drops can really fuck you up, you have no scourge to keep his vessels numbers down.

Now I know there is not a build order that wins 100% of your games, but right now your idea sounds like it might work if you confuse the terran with what you are trying to achieve.

Sounds like you start powering, then you are fragile while you get the hydra upgrades + attack, then you have an army advantage where you need to score kills to set him behind and then, if you did no damage, you are behind again.

I'm mostly curious as how do you attacks nat, in what maps, etc. The worst thing I can see the terran doing (besides 3 rax sunken break ) is playing it safe in your build orders peak (when you have the hydra ling + queen army) and chill as his nat.

Wouldn't you benefit more from getting hive, since you can push him that way even if he decides to be passive?

On October 27 2008 10:21 CrimsonLotus wrote:
The problem that i see with this build is the fact that you need a lot of queens to always have ensare available, especially in such an agressive MU such as ZvT when battles occur all the time.

But i dont know, i dont play Zerg or Terran, so i would really love to see a replay an check how does this build works out.

On October 27 2008 11:30 Pokebunny wrote:
Err, last question. Your zerg on coke? Is there some reason this is related to coke in any way, or some analogy, or.... It doesn't make sense to me.

On October 27 2008 05:54 Misrah wrote:
@ t_co

DPS: Glad you brought this up. It's true that DPS of rines is greater than zerg, and lings tend to "pop" before they get to thier marine targets. But your thinking about standard ZVT play. I will explain to you why i think that with my strat i can overcome this.

1. Hydra: When you have a lurk ling army, the AI of the marine will shoot the lings first because the are "the greatest" threat. I change this up with my hydra because the hydra will engage the marines, causing marine AI to attack the hydra, thus allowing my higher DPS lings to get closer to thier targets.

2. Surface area: Terran Units become less and less cost effective the more fronts of battle they are presented with. I try and exploit this fact because I am using 3 highly mobile units- Zergling, Hydra, and Queens. With increased surface area- I once again am gaining an advantage.

3. Ensnare: Ensnare lowers the DPS and MOBILITY of any unit- stimmed or not. Ensnare compliments the above two points perfectly, and helps to solidify my thoughts and ideas about this pesudo style ZVT.

The DPS rate of marines also has a relationship with HP that you forgot to mention. Medics are what allow marines to go crazy DPS, T's medic count will take some time to increase to the point that you can stim marines as liberaly as you are talking about- with ensnare and aggressive play, i never intend to let this happen. Withought medics, stimmed marines are not scary- especially in ensnare, stim does nothing. Basically, by the time T has enough medics to facilitate liberal use of stim- i with have many ensnares to counter.

As far as Muta- and no muta rush: I deal with this fact simply as a matter of spending. Insted of buying 9-12 muta for 1200/1200 i can get 4 hatch, 24 drones, 16 hydra, or 48 lings. Plus a few upgrades, and considering the fact that my economy is stronger than 3hatch because i now have 4-5 hatch with drones pumping, the increased amount of rax, can be compared to the economy increase i also have gained.

Irradidate- My only question to you is- how long do you think vessles can survive if there are 1345194586 hydra swarming around? Queen are fast- and can run away quite well. It will be more of a challange to irrad a queen than a luker, ultra or defiler.

This strat is not a two base build, on the contrary it's expansive and mineral intensive. With increased produciton facilities earlier in this strat i can facilitate more drones, faster- matching anything terran can throw at me.

As for being manly- ya i think that zerg players should forgo fancy cute shit and just throw wave after wave of units. I embrace zerg mentality, and with this idea and strat, i am trying to find away for thier true mentality to shine.