EPT[G][Q] My zerg on coke - Page 15
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Stimpacked
Philippines368 Posts
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
Anyway... Some replays of my D level play ;P (just because i can't play at top level doesn't mean i can't think at top level) Terran goes fe acad more rax pretty standard. This is one shows my fast 3rd base with enough gas to switch to lurker and hydra and lings, but i forgot queens since at my apm level 130ish... i can't do so many things at once. i couldn't even handle the amount of resources i was getting!(i just want to say that this build is not the "queen and hydra" build. it's more like a playstyle) then i got to ultras and won. I think this is the one where the terran was mined out since he had to build so many units constantly as they keep getting wiped out. http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=72130 Edit: ignoring stimpacked comments... I want to help. (If you have nothing good to add why say anything, just don't watch it. you don't have to publish yourself with i don't look at d replays) Terran goes unorthodox play you might say. 2 port wraiths and then transition into 4 rax expand. Hydras are good for antiair plus it can snipe ledge seige tanks. It can also hit and run m&m. http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=72134 Terran goes acad 3 rax play then expands. Saw the threat, sunkened up and mass lings. He was able to go up my ramp into my main, but even losing a lot of drones, mining at my nat and my early third kept be alive easy. I felt i was behind so i just skipped hydras completely and went lurker ling ftw. (here my drones got raped from eraser. 1st replay above i upgraded burrow 100/100 to not make the same mistake and saved all my drones lives: totally worth it) http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=72137 | ||
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Stimpacked
Philippines368 Posts
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
On November 06 2008 19:01 Stimpacked wrote: Maybe your just making excuses that your computer is still fucked up where you cant make a win making this so-called build. what the hell? 10min mark? thats so far away. Look at it this way,T FEs, gets 2nd rax put acad and ebay, when acad fnishes scan your base sees your so called build with the hydras and mass lings. Then T adds a lot of raxes gradually, non stop making m&m while not teching thus going 6 or more then scouts and sees your 4th hatch or your 3rd base. And then attacks adding factory incase you shift to lurkers, scans can handle that because you should have not so many lurks since your gas are spent on queens and hydras plus upgrades. What are you gonna do with that? At that point you either have your first few queens and lets say 3-4 groups of hydra/ling and maybe researching lurker. On the other hand since T is concentrating on pure infantry has also 3-4 groups. Dont underestimate the macro of terran while skipping tech he saves the money on factory 3tanks + sige plus starport science facility vessels that means more m&m army. So at that point you're really vulnerable. And can be run over once your 3rd expo get killed you're pretty much dead. Im not saying your build will never work it can work when T goes standard like 2-3groups m&m 3 tanks and a vessel can be outrun in numbers but if he concentrates on head2head infantry combat i just think Z cannot overwhelm it. I'm glad you decided to heed my advice. obviously you read the thread and watched the reps. This will be my last replay to your foolishness. In the future i (and hope others will refrain from replying) to your crudely thought out ideas (if you can even call them that). Until you can show me something concrete- I am no longer going to continue to waste my time. Also personal attacks, coupled with uneducated and scathing remarks, really? I thought that people could be above such petty things - guess not. Not getting a win? I daresay- there are quite a few in the thread. (if you took the time to read/watch it) As stated before i will be mass gaming and mass repping once my computer comes back this Friday. Ok so- "Then T adds a lot of raxes gradually, non stop making m&m while not teching" So, once again- how long is this going to take, until you move out? Please keep in mind that zerg will be scouting you, and because you have no intentions of leaving your base, will mass expo. A smart zerg will adapt to your game play. Also lets not forget, it will take you awhile to be able to afford to pump marines continually from your rax with your economy. it will take time, and you will need to wait long enough for your scv count to get high enough for your continuous pumping of marines. Hence why, in normal play- terran only adds more rax later in the game. The mechanics of zerg and terran economy is very different. Unlike zerg, you are only producing from 2 CC's while i will have 4-6 hatch producing drones. The zerg player will be at lair teck, with hydras- so making the switch to a lurk ling army is no problem. (only a 200/200 upgrade) Because you have conceded the map to zerg (you yourself so state that you will sit inside of your base and macro- zerg will conversely do the same.) One catch tho- zerg economy unhindered will produce faster and grow more rapidly than a terran sitting on 2base. Zerg will expo to 3 then 4 base rapidly, thus increasing my economy. I will quickly be at 3gass, then 4. I can create lurkers if need be. "Dont underestimate the macro of terran" Don't underestimate the macro of terran? Well player mistakes and hoping the the players playing in your fantasy game are the same skill level- 3-4base zerg > 2base terran. Sorry kid. Also you say that at "this point in the game" (i can only speculate, because i have no idea of your timings- or how fast you really can create your marine mass) Your trying to tell me that terran units would match zerg? 3-4 groups of terran vs my 3-4 group of zerg? Your kidding right? (zerg is NUMERICALLY SUPERIOR- so really the group ratio would be 3-4 groups T 6-7 groups Z.) Also if you were to move out at this time, (once again you bring up the gas argument) Remember, in standard zvt, the zerg takes the 3rd gas much later than Cocaine style does. i will have extra gas. Also i will have a surplus because i will not be tecking spire or getting 12 or so muta. So your gas argument is totally invalid. Scans should handle it? 3-4 gas lurker? i have never seen this happen before.....Perhaps you have gosu M&M micro? Also your army will be weak- if you don't teck, i hope that your 1/1 rines can handle a numerically superior, upgrade superior zerg army. Understand, Think, Base your ideas in concrete information- try your build, watch some reps of this one. I will no longer waste anymore of my time responding to your pointless arguments and assertions, that you cannot base in real fact. On November 06 2008 19:29 Stimpacked wrote: sorry i dont watch d replays cant learn anythng from it. wow. if that doesn't say anything about your character- i don't know what will. Pretentious fool. | ||
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
On October 30 2008 10:43 beetlelisk wrote: [/list][*]About spell costs  http://battle.net/scc/zerg/units/queen.shtml Blizzard wrote: Battlecruisers and Yamato Gun are especially nice for killing stray Queens unfortunate enough to get in the way. dunno why i clicked (i know all the costs) but im glad i did ^^ | ||
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village_idiot
2436 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On November 08 2008 00:08 village_idiot wrote: Hey, man. You got your comp back? Seriously. Now i'm waiting for you're replays just to see how it might all work out xD | ||
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Wala.Revolution
7584 Posts
I have yet to fight this build properly (as in my opponent makes mistakes) but I am curious to see how you would go vs FE -> 5-7 raxes build. I do not exactly know how fast a zerg can macro with 4 hatches, but the initial group of MM+F is around 1.5-2.5 control groups of MF, depending on terran's number of raxes and +1 upgrade. Can the overpower the terran's macro? If you match it, terran can tech while producing off of 6 raxes and you are vulnerable to dropships while you are stuck with terran's constant ball. I will also post additional information when I come across this build. | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
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Wala.Revolution
7584 Posts
From the gas list on OP, I would be suspicious of the fast evo chamber whether I scout it with my scv or scan it later. I would know that if the zerg is faking upgrade, the 125+minerals will give me a leverage; if the upgrade is going, then I would move out asap since I know that no mutas will be coming. The zerg will look slightly-off standard, which means the terran will move out while the zerg is weak. I'm guessing here is the zerg's opportunity to crush the terran ball, but if the zerg is weak at that timing, isn't this a risk? Also I'm guessing that it's missle first because carapace, although it benefits both lings and hydras, costs more gas? | ||
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
On November 08 2008 00:08 village_idiot wrote: Hey, man. You got your comp back? Yep just got it back, i am installing starcraft now- and hope to be playing by the end of the night  On November 08 2008 04:50 waterGHOSTCLAWdragon wrote: Seriously. Now i'm waiting for you're replays just to see how it might all work out xD Ya me too- hope im not too rust from having not played in 2 weeks lol On November 08 2008 04:52 Wala.Revolution wrote: Misrah, since you are updating on this thread constantly, it would be nice if you updated the fist post with replays that are successful or unsuccessful on this strategy. I have yet to fight this build properly (as in my opponent makes mistakes) but I am curious to see how you would go vs FE -> 5-7 raxes build. I do not exactly know how fast a zerg can macro with 4 hatches, but the initial group of MM+F is around 1.5-2.5 control groups of MF, depending on terran's number of raxes and +1 upgrade. Can the overpower the terran's macro? If you match it, terran can tech while producing off of 6 raxes and you are vulnerable to dropships while you are stuck with terran's constant ball. I will also post additional information when I come across this build. Well like i have said, mass repping and i will try and play anyone zvt if they want, with me going my cocaine build. I will hopefully play some competant terrans tonight or tommorow, so we can see how well this build actually fares. As far as your idea about me updating the main page with others replays- sound like a great idea and i will get started on this, when i start adding replays of my own. I am interested in your counter- perhaps we need to try a few things. Please keep the critisisms coming- always want to here more On November 08 2008 05:15 Mora wrote: wala, that is the hole in the build, and it's all about trying to trick the terran into moving out at the wrong time, or keeping him reluctant to move out at the right time. Ahh ya- the problems with this build, mora points them out perfectly. The question is, is this hole to large? Thus resulting in a worthless Bo? Or like all builds- can the hole be patched and the build saved. Only time and mass games will tell lol | ||
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
On November 08 2008 05:15 Mora wrote: wala, that is the hole in the build, and it's all about trying to trick the terran into moving out at the wrong time, or keeping him reluctant to move out at the right time. Yea, you want them to move out early seeing your early evo and knows that no mutas are coming. You want them to move out when their balls are quite small so that you can flanks with hydra-ling and trade armies hopefully winning the battle. Then terran will have to rebuild a new army. So like the quote, make them move out in the wrong time (when they're small and weak) and keep him reluctant to move out when their ball is big and strong. When it's big enough that hydra ling doesn't work, zerg just have to buy time by backstab threats and making terran shut down expansion attempts. If zerg buys enough time, hive tech will be up and running and that's what zerg wants. | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On November 06 2008 19:29 Stimpacked wrote: sorry i dont watch d replays cant learn anythng from it. O I'm pretty certain you could learn from a d- replay | ||
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Stimpacked
Philippines368 Posts
On November 08 2008 08:15 d(O.o)a wrote: O I'm pretty certain you could learn from a d- replay i can beat you with my eyes closed... | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
wait. | ||
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village_idiot
2436 Posts
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
Not playing for 2 weeks sux. I feel really rusty lol http://www.mediafire.com/?wmjnjg5yn0d http://www.mediafire.com/?yttzit5nowy So hope you enjoy- more to come soon. | ||
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oki
United States35 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On November 06 2008 19:29 Stimpacked wrote: sorry i dont watch d replays cant learn anythng from it. HOLY CRAP THAT WAS A CONSTRUCTIVE POST! We really needed to know that. Where do we nominate people to be banned? | ||
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Deathfate
Spain555 Posts
Ok, i have watched both replays, first of all i must say 2nd replay is pretty useless, but i have notice some important things in the 1st rep: 1 - When he makes his first push, your hydras are the only units that are really effective, your lings melt quite fast and dont even get a hit on his rines, so i would suggest delaying ling speed on favour of hydra range. 2 - I highly recommend making ur 3rd expo (3 o'clock) up the ramp as u did in 1st game but not in second, reason of that is because the ramp is easily defended with 5 hydras and some lings if u are up the ramp because of the missing attack of marines and also they can't attack all together while you can flank them and ensare them easily. In this game you let them take the ramp and also attack him when his has the higher position, imo you should have had some hydraling up the ramp or in case he already has taken the ramp should have wait till he goes to your 3 o clock expo and atack him there. 3 - I wouldnt go 3 evo because ultras arrive just when you should need your +1 spikes but ultras are clearly better than your hydras and as you are not getting lurkers he is spending most of his gas on tanks and not in vessels. 4 - I would make more queens, i think a better terrran player would have a bigger group of units and u only had 2 queens, i would go 6 or so in order to delay pushes or picking positional tanks with broodlings ( i have read all 15 pages and you say broodling is not viable, i agree but im not pretend to kill all his tanks with broodlings, only high ground tanks or some tanks that are pushing me to buy some time, i think at that stage of the game is not big a deal the cost of the ability, maybe replacing the 3 evo and range upgrade) I love this build order, zerg shouldnt be harrasing to make time, zerg were born to have map control and overwhelm the other races bit by bit and droping while attacking expos. | ||
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