• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:31
CEST 17:31
KST 00:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League31Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War1275.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0
StarCraft 2
General
Server Blocker No more sc2 streamers on team liquid? SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact Terran AddOns placement How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
Hands of Pluto Mineral gathering rate (boosted) for each patch Practice Partners (Official) Rollback Netcode in Brood War [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League 2v2v2v2 Tournament Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9910 users

[Q] What qualities determine map balance? - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
September 01 2008 23:22 GMT
#21
No, I'd concur that no gas at natural benefits Protoss over Terran. PvT rarely involves taking your second gas that fast; the only thing you're spending gas on is dragoons, and eventually speed + storm + air, but by that point you should have a third.

Half the reason you can afford to go air relatively quick PvT is that you have a huge gas surplus from having a predominantly 100/0 and 125/50 army. Compared to a Terran army (75/0 and 150/100), that's a lot less gas.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
September 01 2008 23:56 GMT
#22
Though there are some features that benefit specific mus there are features that support a whole race, which would be nice to list too. Protoss also benefit from extra mineral patches. And i remember physician starting a thread about how short distances favoured p though at first thought that doesn't seem very true
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
jinwoooooooo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States176 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-02 00:42:56
September 02 2008 00:41 GMT
#23
Map balance is really situational. Sure, you may think an easily defendable 3rd base favors terran, and it usually does. But on maps such as andromeda where the 3rd base is extremely easy to defend, tosses win out on the map. The fact that tosses can also easily defend their 3rd base makes timing pushes difficult, which means the terran must get their 3rd fast as well. This leads to a huge macro war. With that large center, it's very difficult for terrans to extend beyond their 3rd base. On the other hand, tosses can extend past their 3rd easily, even more so because of the island expos.
ilbh
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil1606 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-02 01:06:24
September 02 2008 00:59 GMT
#24
What determines map balance? me, if i play its imbalanced. period.
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
il0seonpurpose
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)5638 Posts
September 02 2008 01:22 GMT
#25
A far away 3rd for zerg isn't good is it?
Elite]v[arine
Profile Joined October 2007
United States264 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-02 03:10:06
September 02 2008 03:09 GMT
#26
On September 02 2008 10:22 il0seonpurpose wrote:
A far away 3rd for zerg isn't good is it?

depends how easy it is to defend.
link of Luna. if zerg took cross map main with 2-3 lurkers at ramp it would be easy to defend and far away right?
im talking zvt of course.
AKAs: Pyro]v[aniac ,
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
September 02 2008 06:36 GMT
#27
You could further break this down in to what terrain best/least suits certain units.

Ex, Mutalisk (or any air really) benefit greatly from cliffs around main and nat.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Stimpacked
Profile Joined June 2008
Philippines368 Posts
September 02 2008 06:57 GMT
#28
everybody said cliffs benefit terran but z always have mutas and scourges and P always have shuttles...
live and let live...
fatalis
Profile Joined July 2008
United States11 Posts
September 02 2008 17:06 GMT
#29
It just so happens I was thinking about this and created a map designed to favor zerg. Its your normal ramp map leading to expo, but behind the main theres a canyon with zero building room for turrets. Also, theres a cliff behind the natural with zero building space. To top it off, inside your main area is gas with no minerals so you can pop down a hatchery next to it and do a very easy 3 hatch 3 gas. Plus the middle of the map is built sort of like rushhour
ZerO-
Profile Joined June 2008
Canada6 Posts
September 02 2008 19:14 GMT
#30
On September 03 2008 02:06 fatalis wrote:
It just so happens I was thinking about this and created a map designed to favor zerg. Its your normal ramp map leading to expo, but behind the main theres a canyon with zero building room for turrets. Also, theres a cliff behind the natural with zero building space. To top it off, inside your main area is gas with no minerals so you can pop down a hatchery next to it and do a very easy 3 hatch 3 gas. Plus the middle of the map is built sort of like rushhour


main reason why they edited Blue Storm 1.1 or 1.2 to create that extra gap behind mineral line at nat so it was less muta friendly.
Got Pho?
Elite]v[arine
Profile Joined October 2007
United States264 Posts
September 02 2008 19:30 GMT
#31
On September 03 2008 04:14 ZerO- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2008 02:06 fatalis wrote:
It just so happens I was thinking about this and created a map designed to favor zerg. Its your normal ramp map leading to expo, but behind the main theres a canyon with zero building room for turrets. Also, theres a cliff behind the natural with zero building space. To top it off, inside your main area is gas with no minerals so you can pop down a hatchery next to it and do a very easy 3 hatch 3 gas. Plus the middle of the map is built sort of like rushhour


main reason why they edited Blue Storm 1.1 or 1.2 to create that extra gap behind mineral line at nat so it was less muta friendly.

so they made room for turrets?
AKAs: Pyro]v[aniac ,
dickless123
Profile Joined August 2008
Korea (North)33 Posts
September 02 2008 20:29 GMT
#32
unbuildable or open mid favors Z and P
LastWish
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
2015 Posts
September 02 2008 20:33 GMT
#33
On September 02 2008 09:41 jinwoooooooo wrote:
Map balance is really situational. Sure, you may think an easily defendable 3rd base favors terran, and it usually does. But on maps such as andromeda where the 3rd base is extremely easy to defend, tosses win out on the map. The fact that tosses can also easily defend their 3rd base makes timing pushes difficult, which means the terran must get their 3rd fast as well. This leads to a huge macro war. With that large center, it's very difficult for terrans to extend beyond their 3rd base. On the other hand, tosses can extend past their 3rd easily, even more so because of the island expos.


Andromeda is rather easy in PvT because the distances are far away and mid is opened enough.

I'd say that long distances favor most Zerg in general, no suprisingly, it's the fastest race.

No gas maps, more than PvT favors TvZ and are generally not good for PvZ.
High gas maps favor Toss generally.

Corridors + cliffs are good for TvP, but once Toss reaches carriers it goes PvT. The viability of getting carrier tech probably determines if it's balanced.

Cliffs over nat, or abusable obstacle at nat(like arcadia) favor Terran, and even zerg if the minerals are in lurker distance.

Open maps disfavor Terran in general, but favor Z over P.

Far away natural is usually an advantage for Toss.

Air maps favor Toss.

Small islands, with buildable terrain favor Toss, but Zerg too.

Early unreachable expansions without mineral block are good for Terran.

...
- It's all just treason - They bring me down with their lies - Don't know the reason - My life is fire and ice -
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
22:00
King of the Hill #265
EmpressLilyy89
Liquipedia
AI Arena Tournament
01:00
Swiss - Round 6
Laughngamez YouTube
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 574
Harstem 169
ProTech87
SHIN 41
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34026
Calm 4642
Horang2 1148
Soma 759
Mini 713
EffOrt 706
Stork 367
firebathero 344
BeSt 315
Soulkey 278
[ Show more ]
actioN 206
ggaemo 154
Snow 131
Zeus 127
Hyuk 118
Sharp 82
Creator 71
Free 61
910 58
Killer 56
hero 49
Barracks 48
PianO 46
Hyun 43
Hm[arnc] 40
Dewaltoss 36
Bishop 35
Sexy 35
Shinee 34
Trap 27
ToSsGirL 22
Rock 16
Sacsri 16
HiyA 15
Terrorterran 15
yabsab 12
sorry 9
Dota 2
Gorgc7596
Dendi1334
syndereN406
420jenkins300
Counter-Strike
fl0m2171
Other Games
singsing2348
B2W.Neo1261
Beastyqt684
Khaldor579
XaKoH 282
Liquid`Hasu232
Hui .178
KnowMe167
crisheroes164
Fuzer 78
UpATreeSC34
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 28
• Response 15
• Adnapsc2 13
• Reevou 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 9
• FirePhoenix7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV755
League of Legends
• Nemesis2449
• Jankos1415
Other Games
• tFFMrPink 9
Upcoming Events
IPSL
29m
BSL Open Qualifier
3h 29m
WardiTV Weekly
19h 29m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 19h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
6 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.