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[Q] What qualities determine map balance?

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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1 2 Next All
randomscrub
Profile Joined June 2008
Bulgaria44 Posts
September 01 2008 09:46 GMT
#1
I know this has probably been asked before, but I tried several searches and I couldn't find an appropriate thread so...

What map qualities make a map a protoss/zerg/terran map? I think knowing these things could be really helpful when learning how to play new maps.

Right now, my immediate guesses would be

Terran:
- easily defendable 3rd
- many small movement obstructions in the middle, ie thin walls
- natural or 3rd can be hit by tanks in a relatively safe place

Protoss:
- cliffs
- islands?

Zerg:
- many ramps
- lots of gas
- far away 3rd
- open middle

anyway I could be wrong but those are my current thoughts
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
September 01 2008 09:49 GMT
#2
how are protoss good on maps with cliffs;;;
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
September 01 2008 10:01 GMT
#3
carriers
Elite]v[arine
Profile Joined October 2007
United States264 Posts
September 01 2008 10:23 GMT
#4
easily defendable 3rd gas would make pvz protoss favouring (i think)
AKAs: Pyro]v[aniac ,
DhakhaR
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United Kingdom721 Posts
September 01 2008 12:51 GMT
#5
unbuildable in the middle favours P against T
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
September 01 2008 12:54 GMT
#6
On September 01 2008 21:51 DhakhaR wrote:
unbuildable in the middle favours P against T


Luna ? :p
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9950 Posts
September 01 2008 13:22 GMT
#7
you can't split it up in races, gotta split it up in matchups
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
DhakhaR
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United Kingdom721 Posts
September 01 2008 13:55 GMT
#8
On September 01 2008 21:54 Boblion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2008 21:51 DhakhaR wrote:
unbuildable in the middle favours P against T


Luna ? :p


haha yeah, although Luna is quite balanced TvP
Tropics
Profile Joined August 2007
United Kingdom1132 Posts
September 01 2008 13:59 GMT
#9
On September 01 2008 22:22 RaGe wrote:
you can't split it up in races, gotta split it up in matchups


this. plenty of map features only give an advantage in one mu, and there are some features that'll give p over z but t over p even more, etc.

gotta be in mus, not races
LastWish
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
2015 Posts
September 01 2008 15:14 GMT
#10
On September 01 2008 21:51 DhakhaR wrote:
unbuildable in the middle favours P against T

I wouldn't say this really matters nowadays, because many terrans seem to include gols to their army much earlier.
Also vessels seem to be rather standard, crushing my obs with gols, and mines killing everything... *gosh* that's so unfair.

Terrans have evolved again, like few years ago many would be surely convinced that non-wall maps favor toss.
- It's all just treason - They bring me down with their lies - Don't know the reason - My life is fire and ice -
Februarys
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Korea (South)259 Posts
September 01 2008 15:41 GMT
#11
Cliffs favor Terrans so much

Siege Tank on Cliff = gayness

Carriers also benefit from Cliffs and elevation changes but its not that drastically different. Any uncrossable terrain benefits Carriers, so you can't single out and say Cliffs. However, how many more times do you see tanks than carriers in any matchup game?
Jaedong is the Hope of Zergs.
kpcrew
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1071 Posts
September 01 2008 15:45 GMT
#12
if savior was playing

kid raped on imbal maps 24/7
Clan Lzuruha
Elite]v[arine
Profile Joined October 2007
United States264 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-01 16:12:02
September 01 2008 16:11 GMT
#13
if boxer was playing for real kids be getting rapes 24/7 too...
AKAs: Pyro]v[aniac ,
LemOn
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United Kingdom8629 Posts
September 01 2008 17:04 GMT
#14
On September 02 2008 00:14 LastWish wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2008 21:51 DhakhaR wrote:
unbuildable in the middle favours P against T

I wouldn't say this really matters nowadays, because many terrans seem to include gols to their army much earlier.
Also vessels seem to be rather standard, crushing my obs with gols, and mines killing everything... *gosh* that's so unfair.

Terrans have evolved again, like few years ago many would be surely convinced that non-wall maps favor toss.



On Lower levels there is nothing better than turrets with true sight that automatically snipe observers
Much is the father figure that I miss in my life. Go Daddy! DoC.LemOn, LemOn[5thF]
dickless123
Profile Joined August 2008
Korea (North)33 Posts
September 01 2008 19:16 GMT
#15
cliffs benefit terran siege tanks and toss's carriers. also any kind of gay lurk drop or w/e.
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
September 01 2008 19:29 GMT
#16
You should really break this up into matchups, like rage said.

Long, Narrow corridors favor P in PvZ and T in TvP. They're about balanced in TvZ because while you can d up with seige tanks and bunkers you can also swarm the corridors for Z inbal.

I think Cliffs favor T more than P, personally.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
anotak
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1537 Posts
September 01 2008 19:32 GMT
#17
this is a complicated matter and sometimes certain things that on most maps affect balance one way do the opposite. Ex. Katrina's cliffs and easy 3rd. Everyone was convinced it was a T map. Then stork came along.

things that affect balance
- no gas at natural T>Z, Z>P, T>P
- too easy to defend 3rd and 4th gas Z>T
- nat with more than one entrance T>Z and Z>P
- tightness vs. openness. Generally tight maps tend to favor terran at least in TvP. Big open maps make pushes hard.
- minerals close to walls or edge of cliff or something makes them easy to muta harrass
- cliffable minlines = T map
- island without a 0/8mineral block blocking the cc/nexus spot are T features
- linearity (as in no multiple paths, just push from expo one to expo 2 to expo 3 etc) T>all
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
September 01 2008 21:56 GMT
#18
cliffs always favor terran
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Muey
Profile Joined August 2007
Finland149 Posts
September 01 2008 22:38 GMT
#19
On September 02 2008 04:32 anotak wrote:
- no gas at natural T>Z, Z>P, T>P


I always thought this was a P>T feature, since the basic P army in PvT isn't very gas-heavy at all, and you usually you take a relatively quick 3rd anyway, while on the other hand, a no-gas nat will severly cut back on the amount of tanks a T can field from his initial two bases?
Xiberia
Profile Joined September 2007
Sweden634 Posts
September 01 2008 22:51 GMT
#20
On September 02 2008 07:38 Muey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2008 04:32 anotak wrote:
- no gas at natural T>Z, Z>P, T>P


I always thought this was a P>T feature, since the basic P army in PvT isn't very gas-heavy at all, and you usually you take a relatively quick 3rd anyway, while on the other hand, a no-gas nat will severly cut back on the amount of tanks a T can field from his initial two bases?

P needs a shitton of goons, which ends up being quite gas heavy while tanks are extremely cost efficient. Zeals are just there for support and if you start having excess minerals, vultures are > zeals and also do well vs goons, so i guess that might be why T>P.
This is coming from a Zerg player though, so i might be wrong.
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