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randomscrub
Bulgaria44 Posts
What map qualities make a map a protoss/zerg/terran map? I think knowing these things could be really helpful when learning how to play new maps. Right now, my immediate guesses would be Terran: - easily defendable 3rd - many small movement obstructions in the middle, ie thin walls - natural or 3rd can be hit by tanks in a relatively safe place Protoss: - cliffs - islands? Zerg: - many ramps - lots of gas - far away 3rd - open middle anyway I could be wrong but those are my current thoughts | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17731 Posts
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village_idiot
2436 Posts
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Elite]v[arine
United States264 Posts
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DhakhaR
United Kingdom721 Posts
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On September 01 2008 21:51 DhakhaR wrote: unbuildable in the middle favours P against T Luna ? :p | ||
RaGe
Belgium9949 Posts
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DhakhaR
United Kingdom721 Posts
haha yeah, although Luna is quite balanced TvP  | ||
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Tropics
United Kingdom1132 Posts
On September 01 2008 22:22 RaGe wrote: you can't split it up in races, gotta split it up in matchups this. plenty of map features only give an advantage in one mu, and there are some features that'll give p over z but t over p even more, etc. gotta be in mus, not races | ||
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LastWish
2015 Posts
On September 01 2008 21:51 DhakhaR wrote: unbuildable in the middle favours P against T I wouldn't say this really matters nowadays, because many terrans seem to include gols to their army much earlier. Also vessels seem to be rather standard, crushing my obs with gols, and mines killing everything... *gosh* that's so unfair. Terrans have evolved again, like few years ago many would be surely convinced that non-wall maps favor toss. | ||
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Februarys
Korea (South)259 Posts
Siege Tank on Cliff = gayness Carriers also benefit from Cliffs and elevation changes but its not that drastically different. Any uncrossable terrain benefits Carriers, so you can't single out and say Cliffs. However, how many more times do you see tanks than carriers in any matchup game? | ||
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kpcrew
Korea (South)1071 Posts
kid raped on imbal maps 24/7 | ||
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Elite]v[arine
United States264 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On September 02 2008 00:14 LastWish wrote: I wouldn't say this really matters nowadays, because many terrans seem to include gols to their army much earlier. Also vessels seem to be rather standard, crushing my obs with gols, and mines killing everything... *gosh* that's so unfair. Terrans have evolved again, like few years ago many would be surely convinced that non-wall maps favor toss. On Lower levels there is nothing better than turrets with true sight that automatically snipe observers  | ||
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dickless123
Korea (North)33 Posts
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
Long, Narrow corridors favor P in PvZ and T in TvP. They're about balanced in TvZ because while you can d up with seige tanks and bunkers you can also swarm the corridors for Z inbal. I think Cliffs favor T more than P, personally. | ||
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
things that affect balance - no gas at natural T>Z, Z>P, T>P - too easy to defend 3rd and 4th gas Z>T - nat with more than one entrance T>Z and Z>P - tightness vs. openness. Generally tight maps tend to favor terran at least in TvP. Big open maps make pushes hard. - minerals close to walls or edge of cliff or something makes them easy to muta harrass - cliffable minlines = T map - island without a 0/8mineral block blocking the cc/nexus spot are T features - linearity (as in no multiple paths, just push from expo one to expo 2 to expo 3 etc) T>all | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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Muey
Finland149 Posts
On September 02 2008 04:32 anotak wrote: - no gas at natural T>Z, Z>P, T>P I always thought this was a P>T feature, since the basic P army in PvT isn't very gas-heavy at all, and you usually you take a relatively quick 3rd anyway, while on the other hand, a no-gas nat will severly cut back on the amount of tanks a T can field from his initial two bases? | ||
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Xiberia
Sweden634 Posts
On September 02 2008 07:38 Muey wrote: I always thought this was a P>T feature, since the basic P army in PvT isn't very gas-heavy at all, and you usually you take a relatively quick 3rd anyway, while on the other hand, a no-gas nat will severly cut back on the amount of tanks a T can field from his initial two bases? P needs a shitton of goons, which ends up being quite gas heavy while tanks are extremely cost efficient. Zeals are just there for support and if you start having excess minerals, vultures are > zeals and also do well vs goons, so i guess that might be why T>P. This is coming from a Zerg player though, so i might be wrong. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Half the reason you can afford to go air relatively quick PvT is that you have a huge gas surplus from having a predominantly 100/0 and 125/50 army. Compared to a Terran army (75/0 and 150/100), that's a lot less gas. | ||
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zobz
Canada2175 Posts
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jinwoooooooo
United States176 Posts
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
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Elite]v[arine
United States264 Posts
On September 02 2008 10:22 il0seonpurpose wrote: A far away 3rd for zerg isn't good is it? depends how easy it is to defend. link of Luna. if zerg took cross map main with 2-3 lurkers at ramp it would be easy to defend and far away right? im talking zvt of course. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
Ex, Mutalisk (or any air really) benefit greatly from cliffs around main and nat. | ||
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Stimpacked
Philippines368 Posts
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fatalis
United States11 Posts
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ZerO-
Canada6 Posts
On September 03 2008 02:06 fatalis wrote: It just so happens I was thinking about this and created a map designed to favor zerg. Its your normal ramp map leading to expo, but behind the main theres a canyon with zero building room for turrets. Also, theres a cliff behind the natural with zero building space. To top it off, inside your main area is gas with no minerals so you can pop down a hatchery next to it and do a very easy 3 hatch 3 gas. Plus the middle of the map is built sort of like rushhour main reason why they edited Blue Storm 1.1 or 1.2 to create that extra gap behind mineral line at nat so it was less muta friendly. | ||
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Elite]v[arine
United States264 Posts
On September 03 2008 04:14 ZerO- wrote: main reason why they edited Blue Storm 1.1 or 1.2 to create that extra gap behind mineral line at nat so it was less muta friendly. so they made room for turrets? | ||
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dickless123
Korea (North)33 Posts
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LastWish
2015 Posts
On September 02 2008 09:41 jinwoooooooo wrote: Map balance is really situational. Sure, you may think an easily defendable 3rd base favors terran, and it usually does. But on maps such as andromeda where the 3rd base is extremely easy to defend, tosses win out on the map. The fact that tosses can also easily defend their 3rd base makes timing pushes difficult, which means the terran must get their 3rd fast as well. This leads to a huge macro war. With that large center, it's very difficult for terrans to extend beyond their 3rd base. On the other hand, tosses can extend past their 3rd easily, even more so because of the island expos. Andromeda is rather easy in PvT because the distances are far away and mid is opened enough. I'd say that long distances favor most Zerg in general, no suprisingly, it's the fastest race. No gas maps, more than PvT favors TvZ and are generally not good for PvZ. High gas maps favor Toss generally. Corridors + cliffs are good for TvP, but once Toss reaches carriers it goes PvT. The viability of getting carrier tech probably determines if it's balanced. Cliffs over nat, or abusable obstacle at nat(like arcadia) favor Terran, and even zerg if the minerals are in lurker distance. Open maps disfavor Terran in general, but favor Z over P. Far away natural is usually an advantage for Toss. Air maps favor Toss. Small islands, with buildable terrain favor Toss, but Zerg too. Early unreachable expansions without mineral block are good for Terran. ... | ||
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