EPTE.g. I've heard people say maps like Arcadia are macro maps and I understand why (2 free expoes) but then people say that Luna is a macro map; then they'll say that Shin Peaks (which has even more expoes per player) is not a macro map.
[Q] Macro map versus micro map
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t_co
United States702 Posts
E.g. I've heard people say maps like Arcadia are macro maps and I understand why (2 free expoes) but then people say that Luna is a macro map; then they'll say that Shin Peaks (which has even more expoes per player) is not a macro map. | ||
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
also more different paths that go around the map as opposed to the wide open areas of arcadia and luna | ||
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t_co
United States702 Posts
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Proposal
United States1310 Posts
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
and chokes i dunno there aren't that many chokes are there? 3 chokes for the bases? python is definitely macro. its the new luna haha | ||
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XCetron
5226 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
Macro maps - Everything else ?? | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
On Longinus you can do rush builds in certain matchups. Range goon to kill the terran wall and snipe the siege tanks are popular, viable and strong. Also 2 gate in PvP is very common. Hell, it's basically standard on Longinus. And you do have a lot of possibilities to attack. Blue Storm is a macro map. Unless you proxy, it's difficult to kill your opponent quickly. In PvP many people still go 2 gate. But they do that to expand as quickly as possible, not to attack. If Longinus is a macro map, then what is a micro map? Blood Bath? | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On May 08 2008 03:55 BlackStar wrote: Counting the number of expos to determine if a map is a macro or micro map is stupid. On Longinus you can do rush builds in certain matchups. Range goon to kill the terran wall and snipe the siege tanks are popular, viable and strong. Also 2 gate in PvP is very common. Hell, it's basically standard on Longinus. And you do have a lot of possibilities to attack. Blue Storm is a macro map. Unless you proxy, it's difficult to kill your opponent quickly. In PvP many people still go 2 gate. But they do that to expand as quickly as possible, not to attack. If Longinus is a macro map, then what is a micro map? Blood Bath? Blue storm a macro map ?!? oO What if you're playing a zvt and you see a drop in your main ? Taht's right either you bring your newly hatched units or micro your main force to get to the 3rd base then main. The 4th base isn't really near your 2 mains, and the path to get there are limited to 3 ways. Hell you can even do some proxy gates while they're supported to an upper pylon while the gates are in the mains. With all those fact, if you're still saying it's a macro map then i don't know what to say. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
Other factors are air distance (making drops more viable, i.e. 6 vs. 9 on LT), amount of paths between the bases (the more the harder it is to defend expos), cliffable expansions (most importantly the nat, cliffable nats force you to tech before expanding, favouring micro play), ramps at your main/natural and miscellaneous factors like natural buildings. Let's look at a few examples from the point of view of PvT, because that's probably the most dynamic macro/micro matchup with both sides having excellent resources in both. The nats on Longinus are a bit harder for T to take than usual because there's no ramp at the main, making him more vulnerable to all-in play. There are a lot of resources for Protoss early-game to try to punish a greedy Terran. Once both have their nats however, the map start clearly favouring a macro approach. Why? Because of the easily accessible, easy to defend, very valuable double gas expos. Terran pushing from two bases, trying to punish the expanding Protoss is possible, but if he fails he's in a horrible position because he'll be facing a 4 gas Protoss with just his main and nat. Additionally there are no cliffs and no alternative pathways to the bases, clearly making this map a macro map. Python's a bit of a mix between LT and Luna. The big land distance between the bases makes this a clear macro map, although it doesn't seem to be as bad as Luna, as it has short air distance between some bases (12/3, 6/9) and the third expansions are somewhat harder to acquire than on other maps. Lost Temple's a mix of macro and micro factors dependant on the positions. The nats are cliffable, making expanding players more vulnerable to drop playbut there are no alternative pathways, making it rather straightforward. The land and air distance between the bases vary heavily depending on the positions. | ||
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Daranee
338 Posts
On May 08 2008 04:11 RaiZ wrote: Blue storm a macro map ?!? oO What if you're playing a zvt and you see a drop in your main ? Taht's right either you bring your newly hatched units or micro your main force to get to the 3rd base then main. The 4th base isn't really near your 2 mains, and the path to get there are limited to 3 ways. Hell you can even do some proxy gates while they're supported to an upper pylon while the gates are in the mains. With all those fact, if you're still saying it's a macro map then i don't know what to say. lol...i think he addressed your concerns in his post. Also, every game of starcraft is going to have some micro, but the distance/pathing of the map allows for players to easily defend a large area. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
On May 08 2008 04:11 RaiZ wrote: Blue storm a macro map ?!? oO What if you're playing a zvt and you see a drop in your main ? Air units ignore the map. Fact is the pathing of Blue Storm favours quick expansions. And it's even a split map. | ||
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[X]Ken_D
United States4650 Posts
On May 08 2008 05:46 BlackStar wrote: Air units ignore the map. Fact is the pathing of Blue Storm favours quick expansions. And it's even a split map. Blue Storm is a micro map especially compared to maps like Longinus and Python. I would say it is even more of a micro map than Shin Peaks. The map doesn't split in half until a lot later. The close distance encourage harassment. It is more difficult to secure the 3rd mineral only or 3rd gas so people have to "micro" for it. Even the 2nd gas is prone to attack because of the small hole. The drop distance is relatively small and the entrance from their base from a cliff is on your half. | ||
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8882
2720 Posts
I dont consider Lost Temple a macro map, because the natural expansion can be cliffed. Gamea Gowon allowed to harass the expo too etc. Luna is a good example of a macro map, despite the unblockable ramp, it still allows to FE easily. Btw. I dont understand this weird trend - usually all maps allow the protoss and terran to FE, but when the zerg goes for the standard 2nd expo, there arent any maps, that allow him/her to cover the whole expo+ramp with 3 sunkens (like on LT). On May 08 2008 03:52 SuperJongMan wrote: Micro maps - Blood Bath, Microwars, Microwars Gold, MT, etc. Macro maps - Everything else ?? A map can be big, but can still be a micro map. It's not about the size, but the gamestyle e.g. there could be a 256x256 map which would not have a natural expansion.. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
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[X]Ken_D
United States4650 Posts
On May 08 2008 06:53 BlackStar wrote: Ken_D, you are comparing Longinus with Python? No, I'm comparing Blue Storm to both Longinus and Python. I'm using the OP's example. On May 08 2008 02:58 t_co wrote: E.g. I've heard people say maps like Arcadia are macro maps and I understand why (2 free expoes) but then people say that Luna is a macro map; then they'll say that Shin Peaks (which has even more expoes per player) is not a macro map. | ||
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